Grumble is fine, it is a huge loss of tempo normally, and if you have to pay full price then you are in a lot of trouble. Though straight 1 mana price can be replaced with a mana discount of say 4-5 mana so that you can't play 10 shudderwocks per turn.
Just change the battlecry of Saronite to "If this minion is Saronite Chain Gang summon a copy of this minion", problem solved and don't need any nerf.
Then the deck would simply run Dopplegangster (in wild) instead.
In Wild the deck is not a issue, you have many resources to fight back like Dirty Rat or Deathlord, the aggro decks are refined enough to kill before the combo, the problem in Standard is the completely lack of an efficient tech vs the deck, if you play control you will lose, that is the problem.
The reason I hate OTK decks in standard now is that theres 0 ways to counter it other than killing them. And with all shaman's healing and removal, thats pretty hard for non-aggro decks.
The reason I hate OTK decks in standard now is that theres 0 ways to counter it other than killing them.
That's generally how you counter most decks, yes. But the funny thing is its not even accurate. Killing a core card through soul grip or gnomeferatu will counter the combo, also 6 damage mage secret on shudderwock.
But I agree the animation should just be instant. It doesn't make sense to have an animation last minutes.
Why would you destroy grumble? That just fucks up a perfectly fine and unique card. If you really want to remove Grumble's battlecry from the combo, just remove the battlecry tag from the card and replace it with "when you play this minion". It's a crude fix but it works.
I'm not sure shudderwock deck needs a nerf. There are decks with win conditions more stupid than this, imo, and you can beat shudderwock even with some slow decks
Lol @ everybody saying that the deck is fine and the card is fine. I agree, I really think that Blizzard did it's job of giving Shaman some tools to be meta and that they gave the class the ability to use the battlecry archetype, which honestly I had not seen in a while. The problem is not even losing to the deck and yes it is a tier 3 deck, but even if you survive the initial combo the turn that it is played, you might as well concede as they'll trigger it every coming turn multiple times. I had a game where they actually had to play it 4 times in a turn to kill me, albeit it was off of Lifedrinker's battlecries, which is just ridicidulous and broken considering that I should have won the game if he didn't heal for 20+ every damn turn. Something needs to be done because even other combo decks suffer, and more aggro is simply not the answer in any meta seeing that it just sweats in your face and smorcs.
Exactly, the problem is that in Standard you HAVE NO WAY TO STOP THE COMBO. You have aboslutely no way to stop Shuderowck battle cry. You may try to have your opponent discard by letting your opponent overdraw (with Naturalize or Gnomferatu for example) but hey, good luck. The Suddrwock card itslef is OK, the problem is it stacks the battlecries from other cards, and you cant stop it.
Exactly, the problem is that in Standard you HAVE NO WAY TO STOP THE COMBO. You have aboslutely no way to stop Shuderowck battle cry. You may try to have your opponent discard by letting your opponent overdraw (with Naturalize or Gnomferatu for example) but hey, good luck. The Suddrwock card itslef is OK, the problem is it stacks the battlecries from other cards, and you cant stop it.
There is no way to guarantee you stop the combo, in Wild or in Standard. A mechanic that does such a thing would be awful for the game. No single card should be a hard counter to someone else's entire deck/win condition.
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Exactly, the problem is that in Standard you HAVE NO WAY TO STOP THE COMBO. You have aboslutely no way to stop Shuderowck battle cry. You may try to have your opponent discard by letting your opponent overdraw (with Naturalize or Gnomferatu for example) but hey, good luck. The Suddrwock card itslef is OK, the problem is it stacks the battlecries from other cards, and you cant stop it.
There is no way to guarantee you stop the combo, in Wild or in Standard. A mechanic that does such a thing would be awful for the game. No single card should be a hard counter to someone else's entire deck/win condition.
A good chance is enough, Dirty Rat is the perfect example, wait the right moment, play x2 Rat in the same turn and kill the Shudder, problem solved, don't will work 100% of the times but give something to control player fight for, infinite better than game lost from the start.
With so many cards moved to hall of fame some can become classic cards, Dirty Rat will be a perfect choice for that.
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Most people don't really have a problem with the actual card just the ridiculous amount of time for it and ongoing of it.
Unlike other combo decks, it's just anollying how long it takes.
First the card is cool indesign, unique.
Don't nerf Shudderwock, just nerf Grumbles battlecry to return the minions back to your hand, without the decreased mana cost.
This allows for more interaction and reactions.
Grumble is fine, it is a huge loss of tempo normally, and if you have to pay full price then you are in a lot of trouble. Though straight 1 mana price can be replaced with a mana discount of say 4-5 mana so that you can't play 10 shudderwocks per turn.
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The never ending combo, not amination not the issue, the endless playing of the 2. IT may kill the combo, but cards still playable.
Just change the battlecry of Saronite to "If this minion is Saronite Chain Gang summon a copy of this minion", problem solved and don't need any nerf.
Then the deck would simply run Dopplegangster (in wild) instead.
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Umm... tech howlfiend treachery? ;-;
In Wild the deck is not a issue, you have many resources to fight back like Dirty Rat or Deathlord, the aggro decks are refined enough to kill before the combo, the problem in Standard is the completely lack of an efficient tech vs the deck, if you play control you will lose, that is the problem.
I am starting to feel like nerfing Grumble seems to be the answer here. Perhaps change Grumble to
Return your other minions that cost less than 8 to your hand. They cost (1). Or something along those lines.
It's tier #3. Why worry?
Galavant Animation
The reason I hate OTK decks in standard now is that theres 0 ways to counter it other than killing them. And with all shaman's healing and removal, thats pretty hard for non-aggro decks.
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The animation is among the more annoying things I've dealt with in any game. The winrate is irrelevant.
I absolutely would not mind seeing the card be killed. It's a dumb mechanic, especially in Shaman. It should never have been printed.
That's generally how you counter most decks, yes. But the funny thing is its not even accurate. Killing a core card through soul grip or gnomeferatu will counter the combo, also 6 damage mage secret on shudderwock.
But I agree the animation should just be instant. It doesn't make sense to have an animation last minutes.
Why would you destroy grumble? That just fucks up a perfectly fine and unique card. If you really want to remove Grumble's battlecry from the combo, just remove the battlecry tag from the card and replace it with "when you play this minion". It's a crude fix but it works.
I'm not sure shudderwock deck needs a nerf. There are decks with win conditions more stupid than this, imo, and you can beat shudderwock even with some slow decks
yees i agree with that. Grumble was fine since the begining so why they should they touch him like they did with poor raza?
the deck is fine.
Lol @ everybody saying that the deck is fine and the card is fine. I agree, I really think that Blizzard did it's job of giving Shaman some tools to be meta and that they gave the class the ability to use the battlecry archetype, which honestly I had not seen in a while. The problem is not even losing to the deck and yes it is a tier 3 deck, but even if you survive the initial combo the turn that it is played, you might as well concede as they'll trigger it every coming turn multiple times. I had a game where they actually had to play it 4 times in a turn to kill me, albeit it was off of Lifedrinker's battlecries, which is just ridicidulous and broken considering that I should have won the game if he didn't heal for 20+ every damn turn. Something needs to be done because even other combo decks suffer, and more aggro is simply not the answer in any meta seeing that it just sweats in your face and smorcs.
Exactly, the problem is that in Standard you HAVE NO WAY TO STOP THE COMBO. You have aboslutely no way to stop Shuderowck battle cry. You may try to have your opponent discard by letting your opponent overdraw (with Naturalize or Gnomferatu for example) but hey, good luck. The Suddrwock card itslef is OK, the problem is it stacks the battlecries from other cards, and you cant stop it.
There is no way to guarantee you stop the combo, in Wild or in Standard. A mechanic that does such a thing would be awful for the game. No single card should be a hard counter to someone else's entire deck/win condition.
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A good chance is enough, Dirty Rat is the perfect example, wait the right moment, play x2 Rat in the same turn and kill the Shudder, problem solved, don't will work 100% of the times but give something to control player fight for, infinite better than game lost from the start.
With so many cards moved to hall of fame some can become classic cards, Dirty Rat will be a perfect choice for that.