The mage quest is fine, you have to play understated minions or huge tempo loss spells (Tome), after that you have to play the spells and finally have the prepared setup to win the game, plenty of time to your opponent try to stop you.
Quest rogue maybe very strong in standard, Tier 1 or high Tier 2, in Wild a deck like tempo mage have almost 100% winrate vs quest rogue deck.
How the flying fuck are you supposed to take advantage of tempo loss through 2+ Frost Novas and 2+ Blizzards? And then because of all that damn card draw, you have to contend with 2+ Ice Blocks.
The mage class is too good at stalling the game for them to print a friggen Extra Turn spell and NOT expect it to be stupid as hell.
If they draw perfectly... wrong order and wrong spells generated=they are screwed, scrambeling to survive rather than drawing their combo and finishing the quest.
It's Mage. They have plenty of removal for the early game until they start getting their card draw online and find what they need.
You don't need to "draw perfectly" if you draw everything.
They have made moves against OTK's before, I believe they would again. Hearthstone lacks interactivity with your opponent on his/her turn, that is such a big limitation, and creates huge problems when a new combo deck rises. At some point they'll have to tackle this issue.
I'm interested in why you think a single card that gives 30+ damage the second time it's played is a "great card design-wise". Especially when decks have little counterplay regarding it. Like Priest could never do anything about it, ever. I don't like curvestone either, but I don't like an entire deck being reliant on a single card to win the game.
What the fuck do you like then? There's playing on curve, rushing for face, winning with a combo, or... slowly winning off of fatigue as the 4 main win conditions. The first 3 I'll rule off immediately because of what you said, so I'm guessing you're interesting only in that last option. In which case I'll say that Hearthstone simply isn't the game for you, because games going into the super fatigue stage is not something that's supposed to happen.
Where in there does it say I don't like combo decks? Freeze Mage was one of my favorite decks to play, and that was in a meta where it was a tier 3/4 deck. To win however, it took multiple turns to accumulate the burn you needed to close the game. You had to monitor your hand size, decide when to play your secrets, how much cycle you needed not to overdraw, etc. I'm just not in favor of a single card that does 30 damage. Also, nothing in there mentions anything regarding a value game. N'Zoth Priest was one of the first decks I ever played, relying on out resourcing my opponent. If the game went to fatigue then so be it, but that was only against Control Warrior and the like. I like control decks with a win condition, and not one that's achievable by playing a single card. High value cards and the like. I've also enjoyed playing aggro decks, and I've played my fair share of midrange as well. I've only been playing for a year, but I've played everything from Aggro Shaman to Violet Illusionist Fatigue Warrior. A strong value game is not the same as a fatigue gameplan.
Moreover, why is fatiguing your opponent not supposed to be your win condition? Why can't that be a deck archetype that exists in the game? I don't see why something like that shouldn't exist. That seems more like your opinion and less of a fact.
The problem with some (but not all) of the legendary spells is the "i-win-button" nature of them. The card game shouldn't be about getting the "i-win" card. It should be about smart deck design (which is lost through net-decking) and intelligent game decisions. Stalling a game till you draw the win condition or rushing face before any usable cards are drawn isn't fun for the opponent and imo represent exceptionally poor game design, particularly when there's little option to tech in a counter. Some of the new taunt cards are well designed to stop the ultra aggro face decks, but the mage and rogue legendary spells are a terrible design (as was C'thun imo). Note that I'm not saying they're OP or can't be beaten, but it really sucks to spend the whole match playing against a mage when none of your minions can do anything for turn after turn then you die from full health.
It's a little odd Blizz introduced this given their stated stance on OTK decks but presumably old OTK that don't earn money are less fun than new ones...
The other downside with these decks (and tribal/Jade decks) is that they limit deck design. Designing a deck should be a major part of the game but sadly it's lost as the cards basically say "Pair me with X".
The mage quest is fine, you have to play understated minions or huge tempo loss spells (Tome), after that you have to play the spells and finally have the prepared setup to win the game, plenty of time to your opponent try to stop you.
Quest rogue maybe very strong in standard, Tier 1 or high Tier 2, in Wild a deck like tempo mage have almost 100% winrate vs quest rogue deck.
How the flying fuck are you supposed to take advantage of tempo loss through 2+ Frost Novas and 2+ Blizzards? And then because of all that damn card draw, you have to contend with 2+ Ice Blocks.
The mage class is too good at stalling the game for them to print a friggen Extra Turn spell and NOT expect it to be stupid as hell.
If they draw perfectly... wrong order and wrong spells generated=they are screwed, scrambeling to survive rather than drawing their combo and finishing the quest.
It's Mage. They have plenty of removal for the early game until they start getting their card draw online and find what they need.
You don't need to "draw perfectly" if you draw everything.
Come on, that deck:
-Is wasting a card and 1 mana doing nothing early.
-Needs to create 6 mostly random spells
-Play those 6 spells
-Draw a LOT of cards
-Not have their combo screwed by taunts
-Survive.
It is a pain to set up in standard, a strictly weaker freeze mage, tbh. So many things can go wrong, try for yourself! That you lost one game to it does not mean it is a good deck.
It's absolutely not a mistake - every expansion is designed to have a handful of unbalanced and overpowered decks that people can play to get high on the ladder. Buy enough of the packs to make those decks. Play them and have a decent win rate. Blizzard will leave those decks while packs are selling. Eventually they'll nerf when the sales of the packs slows. Blizzard gives zero fucks about a fun balanced game for everyone. They want people playing the new decks with broken synergies to win more consistently than people playing other, older decks. It's just a big con. I stopped giving blizzard money many seasons ago. You can pay to win by buying cards to play current expansion "meta" netdecks or you can suffer.
I just wish with all this work they would add an autosquelch feature. Every second cunt playing quest rogue or quest Mage feels the need to masturbate and spam emotes when they get their quest completed.
I agree both quests are fine. Mage looses tempo to set two turn kill. Rogue is a bit fast but five cards with the same name would be unplayable. To win you have to play it by turn five or six. With that being said theses quests are really powerful and maybe a battle cry minion that reduces your "quest counter" could be in order. Just give some balance if things get out of hand but who knows it might already be in the next set.
There's another that after some 48h from expansion realease is wrecked by some decks and decides they are OP...
OP, you made some points. But have you tried putting any deckbuilding skills into countering those decks you mentioned?
Un'Goro pushed further the idea of decks hardcountering each other. You can't just tweak your preferred deck (taunt warrior i bet?) and expect to have chances against anything on the meta. That's not how it works, sorry.
I preferred fatigue rogue myself. And agreed the more archetypes we have the more expansive and layered the game becomes. I'm not huge into aggro but it has its place as well. More diversity is a good thing. If we all played the same deck what's the fun in that
Yea so blizzard takes out the "Unfair freeze mage" deck and replaces it with "Try to kill me before turn 5" rogue. SERIOUSLY blizz. You had one job. Should have made the quest something using the rogue's combo mechanic.
It requires planning your turns ahead much like patron warrior but as you said not unbeatable either. It's the first powerhouse deck to come out and it may fizzle out to the next deck who knows.
You are aware that Anyfin paladin needed to draw ALL the murlocs, THEN play one anifin which DOES NOT kill you, then play the other one to hopefully win if the paladin didn't already die. Also any transform effect or priest-steal effect did the trick to destroy the deck, not to mention any decent taunt placed at the right time, and not to mention any good aggro deck. But sure, anyifin paladin was problematic for the game, whatever you think bro
The caverns below is fine, any card that lkicks previously underrated or flat out formerly bad card cards like Gadgetzan Ferryman and Moroes into viability is a great card because it allows players to play with a greater part of their collections, we saw that before with Grim Patron Making Battle Rage and Dread Corsair good. now we need a quest/card that makes The Boogeymonster good
The game needs more cards like Loatheb and some of the secrets that are out there. The tools that allow you to impact your opponent's turn and potentially disrupt OTK situations are sorely missing in Hearthstone.
Both quests are fine, finally some love for combo decks. Today I tried Mage quest: never had so much fun with the game in a long time. Stop complaining about everything, for fuck's sake.
mage quest in an insult for every combo deck
what cthun is for control decks thats time warp for combo decks
its made that way so anyone can pull it off and feel "special" about it
Probably too soon to evaluate yet.
They have made moves against OTK's before, I believe they would again. Hearthstone lacks interactivity with your opponent on his/her turn, that is such a big limitation, and creates huge problems when a new combo deck rises. At some point they'll have to tackle this issue.
Moreover, why is fatiguing your opponent not supposed to be your win condition? Why can't that be a deck archetype that exists in the game? I don't see why something like that shouldn't exist. That seems more like your opinion and less of a fact.
Achieved Gold Priest- April 2017
The problem with some (but not all) of the legendary spells is the "i-win-button" nature of them. The card game shouldn't be about getting the "i-win" card. It should be about smart deck design (which is lost through net-decking) and intelligent game decisions. Stalling a game till you draw the win condition or rushing face before any usable cards are drawn isn't fun for the opponent and imo represent exceptionally poor game design, particularly when there's little option to tech in a counter. Some of the new taunt cards are well designed to stop the ultra aggro face decks, but the mage and rogue legendary spells are a terrible design (as was C'thun imo). Note that I'm not saying they're OP or can't be beaten, but it really sucks to spend the whole match playing against a mage when none of your minions can do anything for turn after turn then you die from full health.
It's a little odd Blizz introduced this given their stated stance on OTK decks but presumably old OTK that don't earn money are less fun than new ones...
The other downside with these decks (and tribal/Jade decks) is that they limit deck design. Designing a deck should be a major part of the game but sadly it's lost as the cards basically say "Pair me with X".
because trump said it? he is wrong, is the strongest quest.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
It's absolutely not a mistake - every expansion is designed to have a handful of unbalanced and overpowered decks that people can play to get high on the ladder. Buy enough of the packs to make those decks. Play them and have a decent win rate. Blizzard will leave those decks while packs are selling. Eventually they'll nerf when the sales of the packs slows. Blizzard gives zero fucks about a fun balanced game for everyone. They want people playing the new decks with broken synergies to win more consistently than people playing other, older decks. It's just a big con. I stopped giving blizzard money many seasons ago. You can pay to win by buying cards to play current expansion "meta" netdecks or you can suffer.
I just wish with all this work they would add an autosquelch feature. Every second cunt playing quest rogue or quest Mage feels the need to masturbate and spam emotes when they get their quest completed.
I like Combo decks... I'd rather have them print a ton of combo cards than Buccaneer/Undertaker 2.0.....
I agree both quests are fine. Mage looses tempo to set two turn kill. Rogue is a bit fast but five cards with the same name would be unplayable. To win you have to play it by turn five or six. With that being said theses quests are really powerful and maybe a battle cry minion that reduces your "quest counter" could be in order. Just give some balance if things get out of hand but who knows it might already be in the next set.
There's another that after some 48h from expansion realease is wrecked by some decks and decides they are OP...
OP, you made some points. But have you tried putting any deckbuilding skills into countering those decks you mentioned?
Un'Goro pushed further the idea of decks hardcountering each other. You can't just tweak your preferred deck (taunt warrior i bet?) and expect to have chances against anything on the meta. That's not how it works, sorry.
I preferred fatigue rogue myself. And agreed the more archetypes we have the more expansive and layered the game becomes. I'm not huge into aggro but it has its place as well. More diversity is a good thing. If we all played the same deck what's the fun in that
Yea so blizzard takes out the "Unfair freeze mage" deck and replaces it with "Try to kill me before turn 5" rogue. SERIOUSLY blizz. You had one job. Should have made the quest something using the rogue's combo mechanic.
It requires planning your turns ahead much like patron warrior but as you said not unbeatable either. It's the first powerhouse deck to come out and it may fizzle out to the next deck who knows.
You are aware that Anyfin paladin needed to draw ALL the murlocs, THEN play one anifin which DOES NOT kill you, then play the other one to hopefully win if the paladin didn't already die. Also any transform effect or priest-steal effect did the trick to destroy the deck, not to mention any decent taunt placed at the right time, and not to mention any good aggro deck. But sure, anyifin paladin was problematic for the game, whatever you think bro
The caverns below is fine, any card that lkicks previously underrated or flat out formerly bad card cards like Gadgetzan Ferryman and Moroes into viability is a great card because it allows players to play with a greater part of their collections, we saw that before with Grim Patron Making Battle Rage and Dread Corsair good. now we need a quest/card that makes The Boogeymonster good
The game needs more cards like Loatheb and some of the secrets that are out there. The tools that allow you to impact your opponent's turn and potentially disrupt OTK situations are sorely missing in Hearthstone.
how do you feel now that you know the mage quest is unplayable and rogue is dominated by every agressive deck in the game unless the have god hands