Blizzard , hearthstone and combo decks. Name a more controversial trio,i'll wait.
As we all know, combo decks should be treated with extreme caution, because their whole point is to kill you on one turn, and you can't do anything about it. According to blizzard, if your combo deck requires 5 cards in hand, some extreme discount, an enabler left on board, or blood of a cuban virgin, its fine. And they'll still nerf it if it gets too popular.
And then, they go and make Anyfin Can Happen. A card designed entirelyto kill the opponent in one turn. Everyone agreed it was an abomination of a card design-wise, even those who played it. They didn't nerf it probably because it "didn't go out of control". Still, anyfin is a hated card by many players, and the reason is quite simple.
Now they created rogue and mage quest, and its the same thing happening all over again.
Mage quest gives you 2 turns, enabling two-turn kills easily. With giants & stuff, people can easily do 30 in 2 turns with 15 mana.
Rogue quest is even worse for two reasons: Cheap charges and how ridiculously easy it is to complete. Getting bursted down by quest + 2x southsea and 2x boars at 20 health is NOT okay. Combo druid had 14 burst, yes it was 2 card-only combo, but it was 2 specific cards. Rogue can do it with shadowsteps, brewmasters cold bloods, eviscerates , some other charge minions and such. Also even if you survive you're still gonna get charge'd or bursted because rogue.
Mage quest can be kept in check by tweaking some other cards, but changing certain cards just because of one deck is not really the way to go.
Rogue quest should at least 6 minions with same name or something, it's too damn easy.
While I am playing against a rouge ever 1-2 games and getting destroyed, I am laughing because most pros rated this "1 star" or "Unplayable". I think mage is way more balanced than rouges mindless "Charge the face" decks.
Can we actually appreciate ferryman and moroes being legit cards?
I think they tested it well and the decks are in decent power level range. Neither is otk and both can be dealt with. Shaman and warrior do well against rogue. i think pirate warrior has like a 90% win rate against it.
The quest itself can be quite fun. The big issue is lack of counter play. however giving the oppenent free 3 or 4 turns is pretty bad. I actually think the meta as it is now is pretty awesome.
Anyfin typically didn't OTK. It usually did 12 damage to set up the second card for OTK. As well, it had some pretty hard counters, including transform effects, Entomb, etc. As for quest Mage, it's hard to say how good it is. It draws well and you might as well concede, but it's pretty vulnerable to aggression in the pirate mold and its infinite damage combos are too clunky to reliably fire, I think. That leaves the Arcane Giant strategy, which is a bit more reliable, but its damage is limited and probably hard countered by Control Warrior, just like Freeze Mage.
Rogue quest tends to be vulnerable to hyper aggro as well, and it's pretty draw dependent. It'd also probably be gutter trash at six minions, I'd wager. I'd wait a bit before crying foul just yet.
The mage quest is fine, you have to play understated minions or huge tempo loss spells (Tome), after that you have to play the spells and finally have the prepared setup to win the game, plenty of time to your opponent try to stop you.
Quest rogue maybe very strong in standard, Tier 1 or high Tier 2, in Wild a deck like tempo mage have almost 100% winrate vs quest rogue deck.
Mage quest is TBD. I have more of an issue with the quest itself encouraging throwing around a bunch of random spells than the actual reward setting up a way to win the game. With something like freeze Mage, both players knew every card in the deck - the player knew what cycle they had, what damage they had, and how many freeze effects they had. The person playing against them as well. Playing with and against random spells and clown fiesta RNG is just crummy for both players;people hated one or two Babbling Books, yet they make a quest encouraging it.
Quest Rogue on the other hand, is all the retarded stat-spamming of Jades, the solitaire play Rogue has always been known for, along with some Pirates and high-variance burgle RNG. Like the perfect storm of awful. It's also aggro or tempo, because no true combo is that quick and easy to pull off.
Honestly, the only two things about Un'Goro that exist that I really don't like. They got Hunter correct, Priest seems to have some surprisingly playable builds, quest Warrior seems fine, "splashing" Elementals in different classes is cool, and Adapt has turned out nicely.
I'm gonna get flamed for this, but I actually like this type of deck to be at the top. Not only are they a challenge to play optimally, but their win condition is different from what you usually see on the ladder. Playing against each of those decks feels like a different matchup, a new problem to understand. Note that I don't play either of those decks, I've been playing exclusively Handlock since the first minute of Un'goro.
The mage quest is fine, you have to play understated minions or huge tempo loss spells (Tome), after that you have to play the spells and finally have the prepared setup to win the game, plenty of time to your opponent try to stop you.
Quest rogue maybe very strong in standard, Tier 1 or high Tier 2, in Wild a deck like tempo mage have almost 100% winrate vs quest rogue deck.
How the flying fuck are you supposed to take advantage of tempo loss through 2+ Frost Novas and 2+ Blizzards? And then because of all that damn card draw, you have to contend with 2+ Ice Blocks.
The mage class is too good at stalling the game for them to print a friggen Extra Turn spell and NOT expect it to be stupid as hell.
No, anyfin was a great card design wise. You have Kripp as avatar, he made a video explaining why Anyfin was the card he was the most sad about leaving behind in Wild. Also combo decks are what make the game fun and interesting, I am not interested in curvestone thank you.
The mage quest is fine, you have to play understated minions or huge tempo loss spells (Tome), after that you have to play the spells and finally have the prepared setup to win the game, plenty of time to your opponent try to stop you.
Quest rogue maybe very strong in standard, Tier 1 or high Tier 2, in Wild a deck like tempo mage have almost 100% winrate vs quest rogue deck.
How the flying fuck are you supposed to take advantage of tempo loss through 2+ Frost Novas and 2+ Blizzards? And then because of all that damn card draw, you have to contend with 2+ Ice Blocks.
The mage class is too good at stalling the game for them to print a friggen Extra Turn spell and NOT expect it to be stupid as hell.
If they draw perfectly... wrong order and wrong spells generated=they are screwed, scrambeling to survive rather than drawing their combo and finishing the quest.
No, anyfin was a great card design wise. You have Kripp as avatar, he made a video explaining why Anyfin was the card he was the most sad about leaving behind in Wild. Also combo decks are what make the game fun and interesting, I am not interested in curvestone thank you.
I'm interested in why you think a single card that gives 30+ damage the second time it's played is a "great card design-wise". Especially when decks have little counterplay regarding it. Like Priest could never do anything about it, ever. I don't like curvestone either, but I don't like an entire deck being reliant on a single card to win the game.
I'm gonna get flamed for this, but I actually like this type of deck to be at the top. Not only are they a challenge to play optimally, but their win condition is different from what you usually see on the ladder. Playing against each of those decks feels like a different matchup, a new problem to understand. Note that I don't play either of those decks, I've been playing exclusively Handlock since the first minute of Un'goro.
That doesn't mean it doesn't feel oppressive, or doesn't deserve the vitriol it receives. The way the deck plays reminds me a lot of Freeze Mage, except a bit more fair since two turns are always required, unlike the Evolved Kobold variants that could OTK you in a single turn with the Emperor discounts.
I'm interested in why you think a single card that gives 30+ damage the second time it's played is a "great card design-wise". Especially when decks have little counterplay regarding it. Like Priest could never do anything about it, ever. I don't like curvestone either, but I don't like an entire deck being reliant on a single card to win the game.
What the fuck do you like then? There's playing on curve, rushing for face, winning with a combo, or... slowly winning off of fatigue as the 4 main win conditions. The first 3 I'll rule off immediately because of what you said, so I'm guessing you're interesting only in that last option. In which case I'll say that Hearthstone simply isn't the game for you, because games going into the super fatigue stage is not something that's supposed to happen.
Anyfin typically didn't OTK. It usually did 12 damage to set up the second card for OTK. As well, it had some pretty hard counters, including transform effects, Entomb, etc. As for quest Mage, it's hard to say how good it is. It draws well and you might as well concede, but it's pretty vulnerable to aggression in the pirate mold and it's infinite damage combos are too clunky to reliably fire, I think. That leaves the Arcane Giant strategy, which is a bit more reliable, but it's damage is limited and probably hard countered by Control Warrior, just like Freeze Mage.
Rogue quest tends to be vulnerable to hyper aggro as well, and it's pretty draw dependent. It'd also probably be gutter trash at six minions, I'd wager. I'd wait a bit before crying foul just yet.
It's still only one card, two if you want to count the second copy. Actual combo decks, like Freeze Mage, Maly Rogue, Maly Druid post Yogg nerf, all these required multiple cards and had little to no board presence until they were actually able to go off. Not a 2/4 minion with stealth that searches your deck for you. Freeze Mage never had a card to search Alex until Curator came out. Miracle Rogue was inconsistent. Maly Druid was just plain bad. I hate "combo" decks that have a strong early and midgame, some of the most powerful draw engines, the best two-card board clear in the entire game, and a late-game almost guaranteed to win the match. There's a reason why Thijs went 6-0 with it in Trinity series. Anyfin was an unfair card IMO and I'm glad it's gone.
Ironic that you have a picture of kripp as your avatar when anyfin can happen was one of his favorite cards that got rotated. Not everyone wants to play fatigue, curvestone and aggro. That is why they make decks like this.
I'm interested in why you think a single card that gives 30+ damage the second time it's played is a "great card design-wise". Especially when decks have little counterplay regarding it. Like Priest could never do anything about it, ever. I don't like curvestone either, but I don't like an entire deck being reliant on a single card to win the game.
What the fuck do you like then? There's playing on curve, rushing for face, winning with a combo, or... slowly winning off of fatigue as the 4 main win conditions. The first 3 I'll rule off immediately because of what you said, so I'm guessing you're interesting only in that last option. In which case I'll say that Hearthstone simply isn't the game for you, because games going into the super fatigue stage is not something that's supposed to happen.
You see the thing is you can counter/tech against or simply play with a deck that can counter aggro/control, or maintain early/mid board control to counter curvestone, so they are all 'interactive' in some ways, yet there is nothing you can do to a combo deck. Because they just gather their pieces with draws and stalling and such, so there is nothing to do except burst them down before they can do.
Blizzard , hearthstone and combo decks. Name a more controversial trio,i'll wait.
As we all know, combo decks should be treated with extreme caution, because their whole point is to kill you on one turn, and you can't do anything about it. According to blizzard, if your combo deck requires 5 cards in hand, some extreme discount, an enabler left on board, or blood of a cuban virgin, its fine. And they'll still nerf it if it gets too popular.
And then, they go and make Anyfin Can Happen. A card designed entirely to kill the opponent in one turn. Everyone agreed it was an abomination of a card design-wise, even those who played it. They didn't nerf it probably because it "didn't go out of control". Still, anyfin is a hated card by many players, and the reason is quite simple.
Now they created rogue and mage quest, and its the same thing happening all over again.
Mage quest gives you 2 turns, enabling two-turn kills easily. With giants & stuff, people can easily do 30 in 2 turns with 15 mana.
Rogue quest is even worse for two reasons: Cheap charges and how ridiculously easy it is to complete. Getting bursted down by quest + 2x southsea and 2x boars at 20 health is NOT okay. Combo druid had 14 burst, yes it was 2 card-only combo, but it was 2 specific cards. Rogue can do it with shadowsteps, brewmasters cold bloods, eviscerates , some other charge minions and such. Also even if you survive you're still gonna get charge'd or bursted because rogue.
Mage quest can be kept in check by tweaking some other cards, but changing certain cards just because of one deck is not really the way to go.
Rogue quest should at least 6 minions with same name or something, it's too damn easy.
Thoughts?
Easy N'zoth Quest Priest
Fun and interactive
next set, we're going to be asking for nerfs before cards are even revealed.
Make the Card: The biggest thread on the site!
My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
While I am playing against a rouge ever 1-2 games and getting destroyed, I am laughing because most pros rated this "1 star" or "Unplayable". I think mage is way more balanced than rouges mindless "Charge the face" decks.
Can we actually appreciate ferryman and moroes being legit cards?
I think they tested it well and the decks are in decent power level range. Neither is otk and both can be dealt with. Shaman and warrior do well against rogue. i think pirate warrior has like a 90% win rate against it.
The quest itself can be quite fun. The big issue is lack of counter play. however giving the oppenent free 3 or 4 turns is pretty bad. I actually think the meta as it is now is pretty awesome.
Anyfin typically didn't OTK. It usually did 12 damage to set up the second card for OTK. As well, it had some pretty hard counters, including transform effects, Entomb, etc. As for quest Mage, it's hard to say how good it is. It draws well and you might as well concede, but it's pretty vulnerable to aggression in the pirate mold and its infinite damage combos are too clunky to reliably fire, I think. That leaves the Arcane Giant strategy, which is a bit more reliable, but its damage is limited and probably hard countered by Control Warrior, just like Freeze Mage.
Rogue quest tends to be vulnerable to hyper aggro as well, and it's pretty draw dependent. It'd also probably be gutter trash at six minions, I'd wager. I'd wait a bit before crying foul just yet.
Mage quest is TBD. I have more of an issue with the quest itself encouraging throwing around a bunch of random spells than the actual reward setting up a way to win the game. With something like freeze Mage, both players knew every card in the deck - the player knew what cycle they had, what damage they had, and how many freeze effects they had. The person playing against them as well. Playing with and against random spells and clown fiesta RNG is just crummy for both players;people hated one or two Babbling Books, yet they make a quest encouraging it.
Quest Rogue on the other hand, is all the retarded stat-spamming of Jades, the solitaire play Rogue has always been known for, along with some Pirates and high-variance burgle RNG. Like the perfect storm of awful. It's also aggro or tempo, because no true combo is that quick and easy to pull off.
Honestly, the only two things about Un'Goro that exist that I really don't like. They got Hunter correct, Priest seems to have some surprisingly playable builds, quest Warrior seems fine, "splashing" Elementals in different classes is cool, and Adapt has turned out nicely.
CCGing since '98.
I'm gonna get flamed for this, but I actually like this type of deck to be at the top. Not only are they a challenge to play optimally, but their win condition is different from what you usually see on the ladder. Playing against each of those decks feels like a different matchup, a new problem to understand. Note that I don't play either of those decks, I've been playing exclusively Handlock since the first minute of Un'goro.
Loatheb please come back
No, anyfin was a great card design wise. You have Kripp as avatar, he made a video explaining why Anyfin was the card he was the most sad about leaving behind in Wild. Also combo decks are what make the game fun and interesting, I am not interested in curvestone thank you.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
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Achieved Gold Priest- April 2017
Achieved Gold Priest- April 2017
Make the Card: The biggest thread on the site!
My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
Achieved Gold Priest- April 2017
Why are you complaining about mage quest. It's bad.
Ironic that you have a picture of kripp as your avatar when anyfin can happen was one of his favorite cards that got rotated. Not everyone wants to play fatigue, curvestone and aggro. That is why they make decks like this.
Easy N'zoth Quest Priest