it needs to be changed to: All minions in your deck are transformed into 4/4s. That way if they are bounced back or silenced they revert to original form. And anything summoned by Sonya or Gig Inventor wouldn't be effected
I feel like this is close to being a proper nerf but it would still make the deck too bad, the nature of this deck is obviously to bounce minions back and forth and then if when the quest is complete your hand is absoluttely useless then the deck is way to slow to be a thingyou would either need to save your draw after the quest which makes it a lot harder or play a minion every turn, either way is way too slow and this would kill the card.
I haven't seen anyone play this card in six months. So no. It's not the most powerful card ever printed.
Where are you playing Hearthstone? and at what rank? I could see quest rogue not being played on the lower ranks as there's less control and combo decks there and also the few players that had the deck on lower ranks probably dusted it for full value the last time but if you play on rank 5 - 1 there's almsot a 50-50% chance to get odd rogue or quest rogue and then on legend there's a looooot of quest rogues around, so if you haven't seen it it's because a) you're on the lower ranks or b)You're lucky (or unlucky?) and you get any of the other archetypes when you queue into rogues.
or only plays wild
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Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
The design is absolutely terrible. Even worse was the decision to include it in the final set. Not sure about worst ever, but an embarrassment for sure.
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Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
Well almost every single post on here appears to agree with my "particular" vision on this matther, also I don't think there's anything particularly wrong about said vision when the card has been nerfed twice and it's still fairly strong on the current meta, so why don't you just go spread you rank 15 salt somewhere else, cause you clearly have no clue about this children card game ;)
Your insults don't even make sense. Nowhere in my posts was I posting salt about Quest Rogue. In fact, it feels more like you are trying to project your own feelings of salt onto me by saying I'm spreading "rank 15 salt". It's pretty obvious who is the salty one here.
Fyi, rallying a few posters on small forum thread on a comparative small fansite when compared to all of the people who play HS does not mean most people share your vision. Not everyone who plays HS has an account or even visits Hearthpwn. In fact, the average player doesn't even consistently use fansite. It is cute though that you're trying to inflate your view with a sense of exaggerated importance because what 10 people on a forum on a fansite liked something you said. I could just as easily get random opinions from random people to back up what I said. That doesn't mean it would be any more meaningful.
Shudderwock is really slow though and counterable to an extent. Quest Rogue is not counterable and an autolose if you're playing control. The matchups are so polarizing its not even funny.
Love how all of these threads are to hate on cards that control decks find oppressive, but it often the control decks that have their own version of insanely powerful cards that they view as fine.
Gul'Dan is also a ridiculously powerful card, not because of the battlecry but because of the hero power. Against other control decks the hero power gives the warlock the closest thing to a 3 mana Bash as you can get. Against non-warlock control classes that is gradually crippling & you are often put on a 'resource clock'. If a warlock got 7 sucks in over a control mirror then they essentially got to add seven removals into their deck without needing to have them take up a card slot and without needing to draw into them. What other classes get to have access to something like that, barring druid with their weaker version of hero power removal?
But sure we need to nerf Quest Rogue for the third time so that warlock doesn't get hard countered and can go back to being #1 of control match-ups in both formats.
I think the problem card for rogue is DEFINITELY Preparation, which makes Quest that much more reliable for its combo. Like... think about the mechanics of it in conjunction with Soulfire. "Discard a card" effects typically result in a bonus to mana between 1 and 2, so if you burn a card to produce mana it should be able to produce between one and two mana of tempo in exchange for the lost value, and this carries through with other cards. Innervate, Counterfeit Coin, Biology Project, Darkshire Librarian, Succubus, all are cards that generate 1-2 mana additional tempo per card removed from hand.
Only Preparation and Floop's Glorious Gloop break this mold, and floop's is a legendary spell that specifically incentivizes sacrificing creatures in addition to cards to generate mana, while prep is 100% just 'discard 1 card, generate 3 additional mana'.
Like... let's look at some statistics: In games where The Caverns Below had been successfully played, the deck has a net 45% winrate. That same deck, when Prep is successfully played, has a 52% winrate. I think we can conclusively say that Prep is better than Caverns at this point...
I’d definitely say this card is significantly worse card design than jade idol. Jade idol was brutal for control, but at least you could interact with jade druid, and they even printed a card (skulking geist) to directly counter jade idol going infinite, which turned out to be surprisingly flexible and is used today in multiple top tier decks even without jade idol in standard.
The thing that makes Caverns Below so bad to play against is that you don’t interact with the deck at all. They play their game of solitaire and then either you out aggro them while they ignored everything you did, or they beat you down with boar combos from hand and/or infinite Zola/Valeera/Sonya value.
Even in un-goro, all it really did was take the place of jade druid as the control killer. It also meant shorter games which is not a bad thing if the control deck has no chance anyway; less time wasted
In The Witchwood it wasnt busted either. It actually became a more balanced deck, where control decks had a better chance against it in exchange for viability against aggro.
And now its in a fine place; worse than shudderwock against aggro and control (maybe better against midrange), but wins the mirror and is faster.
The design is fine and has always been fine. Control needs counters.
I haven't seen anyone play this card in six months. So no. It's not the most powerful card ever printed.
Where are you playing Hearthstone? and at what rank? I could see quest rogue not being played on the lower ranks as there's less control and combo decks there and also the few players that had the deck on lower ranks probably dusted it for full value the last time but if you play on rank 5 - 1 there's almsot a 50-50% chance to get odd rogue or quest rogue and then on legend there's a looooot of quest rogues around, so if you haven't seen it it's because a) you're on the lower ranks or b)You're lucky (or unlucky?) and you get any of the other archetypes when you queue into rogues.
or only plays wild
I also havent seen quest rogue since WW.
I dont play at super high ranks, but I hit rank 5 every season with some time to spare. Im rank 4 right now (standard btw)
It's bad enough this used to be an automatic win against control, but it's disgusting that it can stabilize against aggro and mid. I pretty much hate this and kingsbane, they're so depressing to play against. Recently I played against a quest rogue who finished on turn 5 (like they always do, it's not even a challenge with Sonya), and somehow scraped through with the luckiest set of zombeast pulls in history. I think I got exploding bloatbat with poison as I pulled play dead, with just enough Mana to play all in one turn. Then I kept getting rush lifesteal 4/5 zombeasts. Any other day, I would have lost, and it wouldn't have been close. This quest sucks.
Even in un-goro, all it really did was take the place of jade druid as the control killer. It also meant shorter games which is not a bad thing if the control deck has no chance anyway; less time wasted
In The Witchwood it wasnt busted either. It actually became a more balanced deck, where control decks had a better chance against it in exchange for viability against aggro.
And now its in a fine place; worse than shudderwock against aggro and control (maybe better against midrange), but wins the mirror and is faster.
The design is fine and has always been fine. Control needs counters.
This. People will always bitch. If they need this, they need to nerf odd paladin to screw all those noobs with no skill who can still win games with that autopilot mess.
Actually imho the card is well intentioned. But the road to hell is full of them.
A big problem (ok, not the only one) about quest rogue is the interaction with some specific cards, specially token generators and cheap cards that buffed go nuts. I always thought a good solution would be banning some cards from being together on a deck.
i.e. If rogue plays quest on deck, he/she can't play X card too. Kind of same way Even Shaman can't play Lightning Storm, or Even Warlock can't play Voidlord.
I think this could address the issue of some cards being ok alone, but becoming broken on a specific deck.
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I feel like this is close to being a proper nerf but it would still make the deck too bad, the nature of this deck is obviously to bounce minions back and forth and then if when the quest is complete your hand is absoluttely useless then the deck is way to slow to be a thingyou would either need to save your draw after the quest which makes it a lot harder or play a minion every turn, either way is way too slow and this would kill the card.
or only plays wild
Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
The design is absolutely terrible. Even worse was the decision to include it in the final set. Not sure about worst ever, but an embarrassment for sure.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
Your insults don't even make sense. Nowhere in my posts was I posting salt about Quest Rogue. In fact, it feels more like you are trying to project your own feelings of salt onto me by saying I'm spreading "rank 15 salt". It's pretty obvious who is the salty one here.
Fyi, rallying a few posters on small forum thread on a comparative small fansite when compared to all of the people who play HS does not mean most people share your vision. Not everyone who plays HS has an account or even visits Hearthpwn. In fact, the average player doesn't even consistently use fansite. It is cute though that you're trying to inflate your view with a sense of exaggerated importance because what 10 people on a forum on a fansite liked something you said. I could just as easily get random opinions from random people to back up what I said. That doesn't mean it would be any more meaningful.
Oh lord is this card back? Didn't play over the weekend but sounds like I missed out on the "fun".
Needs to be reprinted, no more nerfs.
Pogo is kind of balanced though because you can't go infinite.
If you nerf prep you kill rogue. Not happeningl bud.
Shudderwock is really slow though and counterable to an extent. Quest Rogue is not counterable and an autolose if you're playing control. The matchups are so polarizing its not even funny.
Patches in its current state is fine. Barnes imo is terrible, just because of the highroll, resurection aspect.
I think the problem card for rogue is DEFINITELY Preparation, which makes Quest that much more reliable for its combo.
Like... think about the mechanics of it in conjunction with Soulfire. "Discard a card" effects typically result in a bonus to mana between 1 and 2, so if you burn a card to produce mana it should be able to produce between one and two mana of tempo in exchange for the lost value, and this carries through with other cards. Innervate, Counterfeit Coin, Biology Project, Darkshire Librarian, Succubus, all are cards that generate 1-2 mana additional tempo per card removed from hand.
Only Preparation and Floop's Glorious Gloop break this mold, and floop's is a legendary spell that specifically incentivizes sacrificing creatures in addition to cards to generate mana, while prep is 100% just 'discard 1 card, generate 3 additional mana'.
Like... let's look at some statistics: In games where The Caverns Below had been successfully played, the deck has a net 45% winrate. That same deck, when Prep is successfully played, has a 52% winrate. I think we can conclusively say that Prep is better than Caverns at this point...
I’d definitely say this card is significantly worse card design than jade idol. Jade idol was brutal for control, but at least you could interact with jade druid, and they even printed a card (skulking geist) to directly counter jade idol going infinite, which turned out to be surprisingly flexible and is used today in multiple top tier decks even without jade idol in standard.
The thing that makes Caverns Below so bad to play against is that you don’t interact with the deck at all. They play their game of solitaire and then either you out aggro them while they ignored everything you did, or they beat you down with boar combos from hand and/or infinite Zola/Valeera/Sonya value.
i'm pretty sure the worst designed card is Stonetusk Boar charge minions should cost 3 mana as a minimum, regardless of stats
The design is fine. People just like to bitch.
Even in un-goro, all it really did was take the place of jade druid as the control killer. It also meant shorter games which is not a bad thing if the control deck has no chance anyway; less time wasted
In The Witchwood it wasnt busted either. It actually became a more balanced deck, where control decks had a better chance against it in exchange for viability against aggro.
And now its in a fine place; worse than shudderwock against aggro and control (maybe better against midrange), but wins the mirror and is faster.
The design is fine and has always been fine. Control needs counters.
I also havent seen quest rogue since WW.
I dont play at super high ranks, but I hit rank 5 every season with some time to spare. Im rank 4 right now (standard btw)
It's bad enough this used to be an automatic win against control, but it's disgusting that it can stabilize against aggro and mid. I pretty much hate this and kingsbane, they're so depressing to play against. Recently I played against a quest rogue who finished on turn 5 (like they always do, it's not even a challenge with Sonya), and somehow scraped through with the luckiest set of zombeast pulls in history. I think I got exploding bloatbat with poison as I pulled play dead, with just enough Mana to play all in one turn. Then I kept getting rush lifesteal 4/5 zombeasts. Any other day, I would have lost, and it wouldn't have been close. This quest sucks.
https://hsreplay.net/replay/oyFafpah7KbJz2KMWUAo5j
This. People will always bitch. If they need this, they need to nerf odd paladin to screw all those noobs with no skill who can still win games with that autopilot mess.
Agree too...
Actually imho the card is well intentioned. But the road to hell is full of them.
A big problem (ok, not the only one) about quest rogue is the interaction with some specific cards, specially token generators and cheap cards that buffed go nuts. I always thought a good solution would be banning some cards from being together on a deck.
i.e. If rogue plays quest on deck, he/she can't play X card too. Kind of same way Even Shaman can't play Lightning Storm, or Even Warlock can't play Voidlord.
I think this could address the issue of some cards being ok alone, but becoming broken on a specific deck.