I think it's interesting to think about this in comparison to Grove Tender, another symmetric ramp card Druid had which never got used as ramp (some folks used it for mill purposes).
I tried to make Grove Tender work, but I think there were two issues. First, there's the higher initial mana cost of 3. While you get back 1 mana, you'd then be at a net of 2, but you needed to have that higher investment. While you could get there off an Innervate (they used to give 2 mana, for all the people in the back), it was a lot slower to cast Grove Tender. Second, only gaining back 1 mana was awkward. Lets say you drop one of these turn 3. Then you'd have a 2/4, and you'd float one mana. But druid didn't have many good 1-drops. I guess a third thing--which may or may not be true--is that it seems like it might be easier for an opponent to take full advantage of being surprise-ramped an extra mana after turn 3 than two extra mana after turn 1.
This, while it doesn't have a 2/4 body attached, the lower initial cost (so it can be played turn 1 instead of 3, so fewer weaker earlier turns) and the higher mana return seem promising. Running both Zombie Chow and Living Roots didn't really seem like enough 1-drops to really take advantage of Grove Tender, but running too many 1-drops in a deck designed to ramp into big things is kind of counter-productive. Getting back 2 mana instead of 1 mana is kind of big. Druids don't run a lot of 2-drops, but currently they tend to run Wild Growth, Wrath, and always have a Hero Power. That's a lot more cards a druid is likely to actually want in their decks.
One parting thought: could this be worth in some kind of Odd ramp druid, with this into Hero Power turn 1? Almost surely not, but it could be fun.
If this works like Nourish (and it should, since it's worded the same), then you can be at 9 mana on turn 3, to Coin UI or Oakheart on T3. Grove Tender wasn't even close to that good.
T1 - Double Biology Project, Wild Growth (end with 5 mana, 6 next turn)
T2 - Nourish to 8 mana
T3 - With 9 mana, Coin UI or play Oakheart and gg
edit: granted, you need perfect draw for this to happen but rest assured this WILL happen. You WILL see T3 Oakheart.
I think a lot of people are thinking that you will play this on turn one and then hero power and let your opponent play a 3 drop. However, you can wait to make sure you are the first one to benefit from the mana, since it can be used as a coin the turn it's played, so instead of doing nothing and giving your opponent mana, you can use it like the coin, and you can use it with the expectation that you will play a certain card next turn e.g. turn 5 biology project -> turn 6 Lich King. Also, there's almost no way anyone will be able to benefit from the mana more than the druid player, since the druid deck can be FILLED with expensive cards. It also happens to be a great gadgetzan auctioneer card in the late game. Overall I think this is a strong candidate for 'the best card ever made.'
So... are the timelines still in flux here from the Taverns of Time event?! I immediately thought it was just a rehash of this arena only card. Or maybe Flash Forward was the original version of this?
That card jumps you ahead in time to a point where Biology Project is an important part of the metagame.
I think, Druid has really good draw engine, insane snowball deathrattle effect, and now the ramp engine will be more insane. The card will be break the meta. Some control decks will extinct.
I think it's interesting to think about this in comparison to Grove Tender, another symmetric ramp card Druid had which never got used as ramp (some folks used it for mill purposes).
I tried to make Grove Tender work, but I think there were two issues. First, there's the higher initial mana cost of 3. While you get back 1 mana, you'd then be at a net of 2, but you needed to have that higher investment. While you could get there off an Innervate (they used to give 2 mana, for all the people in the back), it was a lot slower to cast Grove Tender. Second, only gaining back 1 mana was awkward. Lets say you drop one of these turn 3. Then you'd have a 2/4, and you'd float one mana. But druid didn't have many good 1-drops. I guess a third thing--which may or may not be true--is that it seems like it might be easier for an opponent to take full advantage of being surprise-ramped an extra mana after turn 3 than two extra mana after turn 1.
This, while it doesn't have a 2/4 body attached, the lower initial cost (so it can be played turn 1 instead of 3, so fewer weaker earlier turns) and the higher mana return seem promising. Running both Zombie Chow and Living Roots didn't really seem like enough 1-drops to really take advantage of Grove Tender, but running too many 1-drops in a deck designed to ramp into big things is kind of counter-productive. Getting back 2 mana instead of 1 mana is kind of big. Druids don't run a lot of 2-drops, but currently they tend to run Wild Growth, Wrath, and always have a Hero Power. That's a lot more cards a druid is likely to actually want in their decks.
One parting thought: could this be worth in some kind of Odd ramp druid, with this into Hero Power turn 1? Almost surely not, but it could be fun.
Another big difference is the other tools. In Wild there are more better tamp options than Grove tender. And in standard, there are far more powerful late game cards to ramp into. Having something like UK makes ramp far better as it just provides more value and it covers the weakness of ramp, using up your hand without putting anything on board.
NVM, it is also combo Firebat suggested, but yeah this happens once in million games.
But still I think it is good card. I really don't like druid ramping like hell. And it is the only class that was in top tier consistently throughout history of Hearthstone. Like it needed another boost, with common card. They did fuck up its legendary cards in Witchwood, but some others came to shine like Hadronox
I think the drawback of giving your opponent 2 mana crystals will prove to be too big to justify this card. Getting mana is just universally good. Maybe some of the other projects have a downside you can mitigate or turn to your advantage. This downside just seems too hard to overcome. You are counting on your deck being greedier than your opponent's deck. And that's far from guaranteed. Some of your opponents will also have UI in their deck.
Hope you guys are looking forward Turn 3 Oakheart.
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I think it's interesting to think about this in comparison to Grove Tender, another symmetric ramp card Druid had which never got used as ramp (some folks used it for mill purposes).
I tried to make Grove Tender work, but I think there were two issues. First, there's the higher initial mana cost of 3. While you get back 1 mana, you'd then be at a net of 2, but you needed to have that higher investment. While you could get there off an Innervate (they used to give 2 mana, for all the people in the back), it was a lot slower to cast Grove Tender. Second, only gaining back 1 mana was awkward. Lets say you drop one of these turn 3. Then you'd have a 2/4, and you'd float one mana. But druid didn't have many good 1-drops. I guess a third thing--which may or may not be true--is that it seems like it might be easier for an opponent to take full advantage of being surprise-ramped an extra mana after turn 3 than two extra mana after turn 1.
This, while it doesn't have a 2/4 body attached, the lower initial cost (so it can be played turn 1 instead of 3, so fewer weaker earlier turns) and the higher mana return seem promising. Running both Zombie Chow and Living Roots didn't really seem like enough 1-drops to really take advantage of Grove Tender, but running too many 1-drops in a deck designed to ramp into big things is kind of counter-productive. Getting back 2 mana instead of 1 mana is kind of big. Druids don't run a lot of 2-drops, but currently they tend to run Wild Growth, Wrath, and always have a Hero Power. That's a lot more cards a druid is likely to actually want in their decks.
One parting thought: could this be worth in some kind of Odd ramp druid, with this into Hero Power turn 1? Almost surely not, but it could be fun.
If this works like Nourish (and it should, since it's worded the same), then you can be at 9 mana on turn 3, to Coin UI or Oakheart on T3. Grove Tender wasn't even close to that good.
T1 - Double Biology Project, Wild Growth (end with 5 mana, 6 next turn)
T2 - Nourish to 8 mana
T3 - With 9 mana, Coin UI or play Oakheart and gg
edit: granted, you need perfect draw for this to happen but rest assured this WILL happen. You WILL see T3 Oakheart.
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I could be wrong but I think this card will be in almost every druid deck
I think a lot of people are thinking that you will play this on turn one and then hero power and let your opponent play a 3 drop. However, you can wait to make sure you are the first one to benefit from the mana, since it can be used as a coin the turn it's played, so instead of doing nothing and giving your opponent mana, you can use it like the coin, and you can use it with the expectation that you will play a certain card next turn e.g. turn 5 biology project -> turn 6 Lich King. Also, there's almost no way anyone will be able to benefit from the mana more than the druid player, since the druid deck can be FILLED with expensive cards. It also happens to be a great gadgetzan auctioneer card in the late game. Overall I think this is a strong candidate for 'the best card ever made.'
Nerf material?
Hate the design of the card. Has the potential to be really frustrating and broken.
That card jumps you ahead in time to a point where Biology Project is an important part of the metagame.
turn 2) 5 mana - play Nourish and Wild Growth
turn3) 9 mana- play Innervate and U.I.
turn 4) 10 mana to work with!!! 5/5 on board and 6 cards in hand.
stunning strength eh?
vs aggroMage, turn 1- Mana Wyrm,mana Wyrm, Arcane Missles=3dmg.
turn 2-cinderstorm- smorc, smorc with Wyrms = 11dmg,14 totale
turn 3- fireball the 5/5, arcsne misslethe face, smorc, smorc with Wyrms=13 dmg, 27 total.
turn 4, 7 mana to try and finish em off. its a tight race.
Guess they'll have to nerf Master Oakheart or else Druids will win games by turn 4.
I tried having fun once. It was awful.
that 6-mana 2/2 will do wonders against a 5/5, a 1/5, a 2/4, and two 4/12 dragons
I tried having fun once. It was awful.
I think, Druid has really good draw engine, insane snowball deathrattle effect, and now the ramp engine will be more insane. The card will be break the meta. Some control decks will extinct.
Remember when Astral Communion was kind of good?
lol
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I'm waiting for the clips of an Ultimate Infestation on turn 3.
Turn 1: Biology Project into Wild Growth -> 4 mana
Turn 2: (5 mana) Nourish -> 7 mana
Turn 3: (8 mana) Innervate, Innervate or The Coin into Ultimate Infestation.
Another big difference is the other tools. In Wild there are more better tamp options than Grove tender. And in standard, there are far more powerful late game cards to ramp into. Having something like UK makes ramp far better as it just provides more value and it covers the weakness of ramp, using up your hand without putting anything on board.
A lot of talk about turn 3. You guys aren't thinking big enough. Oakheart and UI is possible as early as T2 as player 2.
T1: Project, Project, Coin, Nourish, Wild Growth
T2: Oakheart or Innervate + UI
Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
EDIT: kappa
Topkek Ultimate investation. Sure bruh lol
Just remember the good times!
I was sarcastic! ;)
NVM, it is also combo Firebat suggested, but yeah this happens once in million games.
But still I think it is good card. I really don't like druid ramping like hell. And it is the only class that was in top tier consistently throughout history of Hearthstone. Like it needed another boost, with common card. They did fuck up its legendary cards in Witchwood, but some others came to shine like Hadronox
I think the drawback of giving your opponent 2 mana crystals will prove to be too big to justify this card. Getting mana is just universally good. Maybe some of the other projects have a downside you can mitigate or turn to your advantage. This downside just seems too hard to overcome. You are counting on your deck being greedier than your opponent's deck. And that's far from guaranteed. Some of your opponents will also have UI in their deck.
Galavant Animation