The question is, if blizzard has found a valid way to interact with Handcard hoarding decks besides rushing them down or milling them.
Milling however is not realy a counter mechanic since you often dont mill the right cards. Especially with dirty rat rotating out there is dire need for counter cards to decks like cubelock/Quest mage.
Azalina is kinda such a card but i realy hope there is more.
Therefore ill wait untill i have seen all the cards from TWW after that deciding if Coldlight HOF was a good or bad choice.
I'm pretty much okay with any Neutral card being Hall of Famed, because it opens design space for class-specific cards that fill a similar role. I will admit, though, that I'll be disappointed if Witchwood doesn't have any mill enablers in it.
I feel like the reason why Coldlight Oracle is being rotated out is because its an incredibly polarizing card to play. Play it against an aggro deck, and chances are you will lose. Play it against a control deck, and if they are able to mill a card, you just have a chance to win the game. Mill rogue (being the only 'successful' mill deck I've seen) has always had incredibly lopsided winrates against any form of control deck.
Another issue with the card, which tackles Blizzards reason given that "it restricts us from printing certain types of cards" is because Coldlight Oracle punishes people for playing a slow deck. Even though I think it's fair to agree that playing against Bloodreaver Gul'dan and N'Zoth, the Corruptor and in how it's incredibly satisfying to mill your opponent and have them concede, it makes your opponent feel like you won because of RNG and how you won solely for the fact that they milled their win condition. Having Coldlight Oracle be in standard prevents Blizzard from printing cards to support a slower, greedier deck.
I'm sad that Coldlight Oracle is being hall of famed but I understand why it is for the most part.
I came into this game back in beta specifically because people in my MTG playgroup had taken to playing too many trolly mill decks. I have never brought aggro to ladder (nothing against it, I think it's super healthy for the meta, just don't like playing it), I've played against UT Hunter, Patron, Secret Pally, Mid-range Shaman, etc. and yet there has NEVER been a deck that tilted me more that Mill. I've been F2P since the disaster that was KotFT's roleout but I'm gonna shill out my $50 on the next set out of pure appreciation for Cold light leaving standard.
I think we should be really talking about the real elephant(s) in the room: The spells that actively supports coldlight oracle.
Coldlight Oracle by itself, isn't the real problem here, but the problem comes when a Rogue have cards like Shadowstep , Preparation ,Vanish hand Sap which outright made cards like Coldlight Oracle broken.
Similarly, cards like dead man's hand also made it unfun to play. Coldlight Oracle is never the problem. It's just the catalyst. They HOFed Coldlight Oracle the same reason they nerfed Fiery War Axe: War Axe was a good card that made Warrior feel good. But due to Pirate Warrior, they still want to have monopoly over the dust it can give and War Axe got nerfed. Coldlight was nerfed this way.
I'm playing a ton of kingsbane mill Rogue ATm and I have no problem with the Coldlight hall of fame. CLO is a tiered card it's been used and abused in the mill archetype and it sort of punishes hard players who go for card advantage. It's especially powerful against decks that have allot of cards that cost 6 or more so the more the meta slows down the more powerful it is against the control archetypes... It's such a huge impact card that people have to completely change there playstyle against a deck that rocks CLO, they have to not use card draw and keep 5-7 cards in hand max.
Considering the ton of card generation effects (more and more fill your hand cards/decks) that are being designed and used ATM cold light oracle HOF is a no brainer.
In general effects that mess with your opponents hand are bad... It should be very hard to burn or force a discard on your opponent and cold light make it a bit too easy.
So funny but so frustrating to play against mill rogue 2.0. Mill rogue with Gang Up is slower than the new mill. if you are control deck vs mill is a rage quit
On one hand I can totally see where Blizzard is coming from. Coldlight Oracle limits design space just as many other powerful cards. While it was not too often played, certain Combo decks used it to gain draw. Yes, Oracle is a staple in fringe Mill decks that keep super greedy decks in check. But aggro decks do that too, and they certainly do it better (firstly, because of the higher power level, secondly, because of a larger appearence).
One the other hand Oracle is typical "newbie" card, it is fit to teach important HS lessons. It might seem super OP on first sight for someone new to the game, while it really isn't (it still is a powerful card). The matters surrounding your own card number and your opponents card number can easily taught by playing 20 games with Coldlight Oracle. There is no other card that can do that for every single class.
I guess, Blizzard does something useful by HoFing Oracle, but if Mill should be a thing, it needs new cards (which it did not really get for a long time until KB Rogue, while Mill Druid hasn't been a thing in ages). I believe, it will be necessary to sooner or later rotate cards into the Classic Set (e. g. cards like Reno Jackson (of course that's debatable)) or even create new Classic Cards the more cards get HoF'd from it to have a balanced core set.
Just annoyed with all the people who try to redirect people to salt thread or old threads. It's like you are not allowed to express yourself or have a opinion discussion.
My answer to your suggestion is, what if old threads are not current or something has changed since....ie nerfing the meta, so circumstances change, so maybe opinions change too.
Not to mention that if the thread is old enough, someone would call out the OP for resurrecting a thread XD
You can clearly guess that they are coming up with some cards which coldlight could be deemed broken or make milling a lot more annoying to play against.That's the only reason that comes to my mind.
I think a lot of the problem with coldlight is it started to be played in too many decks. It’s not as niche anymore. And they really didn’t want to have a 2 card draw neutral card.
Yes I do. Mill is anti fun and the whole archetype should be destroyed. It is a shitty mechanic for losers who can't win in a normal, fair way. So this is a great move by Blizzard.
Yes I do. Mill is anti fun and the whole archetype should be destroyed. It is a shitty mechanic for losers who can't win in a normal, fair way. So this is a great move by Blizzard.
What the heck is a normal fair way to play. Could you please enlighten me? And your highest rank score would be? Many top players play mill decks too, are they pathetic to you too?
Blizzard doesn't want too many aggro players. Well coldlight punishes ppl with control decks and theres already divine favour. Ppl playing control will think damn i should just play aggro and not get punished by having a filled hand
The question is, if blizzard has found a valid way to interact with Handcard hoarding decks besides rushing them down or milling them.
Milling however is not realy a counter mechanic since you often dont mill the right cards. Especially with dirty rat rotating out there is dire need for counter cards to decks like cubelock/Quest mage.
Azalina is kinda such a card but i realy hope there is more.
Therefore ill wait untill i have seen all the cards from TWW after that deciding if Coldlight HOF was a good or bad choice.
my hope is that getting rid of oracle opens up design space in rogue. mill would be broken if it had better anti-aggro tools.
I'm pretty much okay with any Neutral card being Hall of Famed, because it opens design space for class-specific cards that fill a similar role. I will admit, though, that I'll be disappointed if Witchwood doesn't have any mill enablers in it.
I feel like the reason why Coldlight Oracle is being rotated out is because its an incredibly polarizing card to play. Play it against an aggro deck, and chances are you will lose. Play it against a control deck, and if they are able to mill a card, you just have a chance to win the game. Mill rogue (being the only 'successful' mill deck I've seen) has always had incredibly lopsided winrates against any form of control deck.
Another issue with the card, which tackles Blizzards reason given that "it restricts us from printing certain types of cards" is because Coldlight Oracle punishes people for playing a slow deck. Even though I think it's fair to agree that playing against Bloodreaver Gul'dan and N'Zoth, the Corruptor and in how it's incredibly satisfying to mill your opponent and have them concede, it makes your opponent feel like you won because of RNG and how you won solely for the fact that they milled their win condition. Having Coldlight Oracle be in standard prevents Blizzard from printing cards to support a slower, greedier deck.
I'm sad that Coldlight Oracle is being hall of famed but I understand why it is for the most part.
I don't have something witty about this deck, I just like it because Malygos is fun.
I came into this game back in beta specifically because people in my MTG playgroup had taken to playing too many trolly mill decks. I have never brought aggro to ladder (nothing against it, I think it's super healthy for the meta, just don't like playing it), I've played against UT Hunter, Patron, Secret Pally, Mid-range Shaman, etc. and yet there has NEVER been a deck that tilted me more that Mill. I've been F2P since the disaster that was KotFT's roleout but I'm gonna shill out my $50 on the next set out of pure appreciation for Cold light leaving standard.
I think we should be really talking about the real elephant(s) in the room: The spells that actively supports coldlight oracle.
Coldlight Oracle by itself, isn't the real problem here, but the problem comes when a Rogue have cards like Shadowstep , Preparation ,Vanish hand Sap which outright made cards like Coldlight Oracle broken.
Similarly, cards like dead man's hand also made it unfun to play. Coldlight Oracle is never the problem. It's just the catalyst. They HOFed Coldlight Oracle the same reason they nerfed Fiery War Axe: War Axe was a good card that made Warrior feel good. But due to Pirate Warrior, they still want to have monopoly over the dust it can give and War Axe got nerfed. Coldlight was nerfed this way.
I'm playing a ton of kingsbane mill Rogue ATm and I have no problem with the Coldlight hall of fame. CLO is a tiered card it's been used and abused in the mill archetype and it sort of punishes hard players who go for card advantage. It's especially powerful against decks that have allot of cards that cost 6 or more so the more the meta slows down the more powerful it is against the control archetypes... It's such a huge impact card that people have to completely change there playstyle against a deck that rocks CLO, they have to not use card draw and keep 5-7 cards in hand max.
Considering the ton of card generation effects (more and more fill your hand cards/decks) that are being designed and used ATM cold light oracle HOF is a no brainer.
In general effects that mess with your opponents hand are bad... It should be very hard to burn or force a discard on your opponent and cold light make it a bit too easy.
Why not add a poll? And yes, definitely. Not a single that deck that uses that is fun or interactive.
Fuck cubelock
So funny but so frustrating to play against mill rogue 2.0. Mill rogue with Gang Up is slower than the new mill. if you are control deck vs mill is a rage quit
On one hand I can totally see where Blizzard is coming from. Coldlight Oracle limits design space just as many other powerful cards. While it was not too often played, certain Combo decks used it to gain draw. Yes, Oracle is a staple in fringe Mill decks that keep super greedy decks in check. But aggro decks do that too, and they certainly do it better (firstly, because of the higher power level, secondly, because of a larger appearence).
One the other hand Oracle is typical "newbie" card, it is fit to teach important HS lessons. It might seem super OP on first sight for someone new to the game, while it really isn't (it still is a powerful card). The matters surrounding your own card number and your opponents card number can easily taught by playing 20 games with Coldlight Oracle. There is no other card that can do that for every single class.
I guess, Blizzard does something useful by HoFing Oracle, but if Mill should be a thing, it needs new cards (which it did not really get for a long time until KB Rogue, while Mill Druid hasn't been a thing in ages). I believe, it will be necessary to sooner or later rotate cards into the Classic Set (e. g. cards like Reno Jackson (of course that's debatable)) or even create new Classic Cards the more cards get HoF'd from it to have a balanced core set.
But on it's own, Coldlight Oracle is a balanced card, It's great card for an extra draw 2 for 3 for mage, or draw acceleration for aggro decks.
It's only frustrating with Mill decks, esp rogue and they can't exactly HoF Vanish since it's a basic card.
But new cycle and draw cards come and go with every expansion.
You can clearly guess that they are coming up with some cards which coldlight could be deemed broken or make milling a lot more annoying to play against.That's the only reason that comes to my mind.
Just Another Legend Player#Kappa
I think a lot of the problem with coldlight is it started to be played in too many decks. It’s not as niche anymore. And they really didn’t want to have a 2 card draw neutral card.
Yes I do. Mill is anti fun and the whole archetype should be destroyed. It is a shitty mechanic for losers who can't win in a normal, fair way. So this is a great move by Blizzard.
Blizzard doesn't want too many aggro players. Well coldlight punishes ppl with control decks and theres already divine favour. Ppl playing control will think damn i should just play aggro and not get punished by having a filled hand
N, I don't. But we did not get a vote on that one.