By my count there are roughly 4 primary Control Decks in Wild: Kingsbane/Mill Rogue, Jade Druid, Nzoth Warlock, Giant Priest. You might see a Rexar Hunter, Quest Warrior, or whatever but those are like 1/50.
Now there will always be some decks that are currently the best at control or best at aggro. However, the main problem is that most of these control decks are basically unbeatable for other control decks. Decks like Kingsbane/Mill Rogue, Jade Druid, etc have to have 85%-95% Win Rates vs most other control decks. If you are playing vs Kingsbane Rogue for example with most other control decks, your only hope for victory is almost to hope they never draw Leeching Posion. Against Jade Druid you have to hope that their Internet crashes or that they have an impossibly bad draw (no UI, no ramp or card draw, etc).
With the decks being almost unbeatable vs most other control decks, you basically are forced to play 1 of these since you have 0 chance of making much progress if everytime you face 1 of these decks it is a near auto loss.
I don't play any of these decks and I do more than well on ladder with my own variants of control decks.
I don't know what Giant priest is but I assume you mean big priest. Not a control deck and unless it has a turn 4 highroll on Barnes it is completely beatable by other highroll decks.
People run Skulking Geist in wild because jade druid is actually a decent deck. N'zoth warlock is also good, arguably not as good as renolock but still counterable.
The only deck you mentioned that has a higher winrate against control is Kingsbane Rogue.
It just feels that you're fearmongering or haven't taken the time to properly assess the meta and what counters you can use when running into trouble.
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I don't play any of these decks and I do more than well on ladder with my own variants of control decks.
I don't know what Giant priest is but I assume you mean big priest. Not a control deck and unless it has a turn 4 highroll on Barnes it is completely beatable by other highroll decks.
People run Skulking Geist in wild because jade druid is actually a decent deck. N'zoth warlock is also good, arguably not as good as renolock but still counterable.
The only deck you mentioned that has a higher winrate against control is Kingsbane Rogue.
It just feels that you're fearmongering or haven't taken the time to properly assess the meta and what counters you can use when running into trouble.
1)So your mystery control decks that you do not mention, that nobody else uses, that you do not describe or post win rates for seem to be doing well. Seems legit and also informative. I have an amazing Unicorn Priest deck that is a super secret
2)You don't think Jade Druid has a High Win Rate against Control... Um LOL. Try running 20 well known control decks outside of the ones I listed and see how many match up well vs Jade Druid. For example try it vs Reno Mage, Control Warrior, Big Shaman, etc. Feel free to choose the ones of your choice. Yes you can add in a Skulking Geist but even then isn't a great answer. Not only are you weakening your deck in 90% of the matches you play but even then there will be games vs Jade Druid where you never even draw it. Similar to how you could try teching in cards like Coldlight Oracle or Deathlord to combat other decks but soon you end up with a watered down deck with too many tech cards.
3)LOL so Big Priest isn't Control???? It sure as heck isn't Aggro and no Midrange Deck will ever consistently not have a minion on board until Turn 6. Big Priest is the definition of a Control Deck.
4)Feel Free to look at which Control decks you actually are playing against (although no idea what you consider control since you do not count Big Priest as Control LOL). There is a reason people are only playing the same exact few
I don't play any of these decks and I do more than well on ladder with my own variants of control decks.
I don't know what Giant priest is but I assume you mean big priest. Not a control deck and unless it has a turn 4 highroll on Barnes it is completely beatable by other highroll decks.
People run Skulking Geist in wild because jade druid is actually a decent deck. N'zoth warlock is also good, arguably not as good as renolock but still counterable.
The only deck you mentioned that has a higher winrate against control is Kingsbane Rogue.
It just feels that you're fearmongering or haven't taken the time to properly assess the meta and what counters you can use when running into trouble.
1)So your mystery control decks that you do not mention, that nobody else uses, that you do not describe or post win rates for seem to be doing well. Seems legit and also informative. I have an amazing Unicorn Priest deck that is a super secret
2)You don't think Jade Druid has a High Win Rate against Control... Um LOL. Try running 20 well known control decks outside of the ones I listed and see how many match up well vs Jade Druid. For example try it vs Reno Mage, Control Warrior, Big Shaman, etc. Feel free to choose the ones of your choice. Yes you can add in a Skulking Geist but even then isn't a great answer. Not only are you weakening your deck in 90% of the matches you play but even then there will be games vs Jade Druid where you never even draw it. Similar to how you could try teching in cards like Coldlight Oracle or Deathlord to combat other decks but soon you end up with a watered down deck with too many tech cards.
3)LOL so Big Priest isn't Control???? It sure as heck isn't Aggro and no Midrange Deck will ever consistently not have a minion on board until Turn 6. Big Priest is the definition of a Control Deck.
4)Feel Free to look at which Control decks you actually are playing against (although no idea what you consider control since you do not count Big Priest as Control LOL). There is a reason people are only playing the same exact few
If you want people to actually discuss your ideas, don't be so condensing and insulting
I've always thought the biggest problem was continued support for the aggro archetype, and to a lesser degree, combo, and that control has gotten very few new tools in the last several expansions.
Most actual Control decks (unlike any of the decks you mentioned, which are all Midrange/Combo decks) tech in various cards to deal with these matchups. Thus, they CONTROL the game until they have successfully either run their opponent out of resources or have developed their win condition. My Reno Mage deck has multiple ways to duplicate Gluttonous Ooze against the Mill matchup so I can set up enough Water Elemental to permanently freeze them. Against Jade Druid I run Skulking Geist and then remove their remaining Jades. In fact, actual CONTROL matchups end up being harder because Renolock has a much superior hero power that makes it very hard to Reno Mage to keep up. And yes, Big Priest is a huge issue, but a well timed Polymorph into a 10 mana Kazakus transform all makes the matchup possible, with some luck. Control decks in Wild that are actually control decks, are in a rut, but they do not have impossible matchups. That goes against the idea of Control.
As a player who prefers to play with my own homebrew decks, the limitations of my deck are only those that I give it. As a result, I never go into a game thinking I’ll lose, even if I get a bad mulligan or start second.
He's free to be condescending and insulting to be honest. When people are a) tilted, b) have a very linear understanding of the meta and game mechanics and use c) stats like 80-90% of decks in the meta it's pretty safe to safe they know squat about the meta at hand.
Also @MrPerfect01, all the decks that I use to climb ladder are visible on my profile cause guess what and here is a fact that might surprise you, I actually make my own wild decks to combat the meta.
I know it's kind of a hard concept to grasp but people are capable of actual thought and when a problem presents itself they try to fix it. You on the other hand, prefer to complain and pull statistics that do not exist out of your ass.
I would continue to try and educate you but your level of ignorance is equivalent to that of a mountain, so you're not worth my time. But here is some knowledge for you regarding these few wild decks you claim are so over-powered to the point that no other deck can counter-them, given that I am feeling charitable:
a) The best versions of Jade Druid have cut Jade Spirit meaning that their jade ramp up is much slower allowing you more time to locate Skulking Geist.
b) N'zoth lock is strong but it's generally not considered to be better than Renolock on ladder which is the primary deck you will find at ranks 5 to Legend.
c) News Flash, BarnesPriest is an Anti-control deck with an extreme highroll element which if it whiffs means that you have better chances to win the game.
Seriously educate yourself first if you expect anyone to take your opinion seriously and stop claiming things are unbeatable when they clearly are.
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I have been climbing fast with wild control dragon priest. Twilight acolyte/pint sized/shadow priest is very strong against Warlock and paladin. It loses to mill rogue pretty much every time, but I still have a 68% overall winrate after 40 games. Its beaten every aggro deck I've come across. I'll put up the decklist if you want it. It's very fun to play as well, since it's off meta and people don't know really what to play around.
Insulting other people opinions while showingg off really poor knowledge about Wild is a really bold move OP.
The only true definiton of polarizing decks is Kingsbane Rogue. Which is not Control deck at all. It is multiple combo deck because A)It stalls until it goes into win condition mode. B) Coldlight Oracle+Coldlight and Kingsbane buffs are not a Control things. These are comboes that are aimed especially to destroy Control. Which every Combo deck is aimed to accomplish.
You don't have to play one of the decks that you have mentioned to win and climb the ladder. I'm copy pasting my post from other thread where I was mentioning all the Tier 1 and 2 decks. There are definitelly more than 4)
Here below is the list of the decks that are Tier 1 or 2: Even Shaman, Dude Baku Paladin, Aluneth Mage(3 varriations-Secret,Flamewaker,Burst),Renolock, Inner Fire Priest (2 varriations-Deathlord and Dragon), Big Priest, TogAzalina Druid,OTK Maly Druid, Reno Mage, Reno Hunter, Reno Priest, Shudderwock Shaman( Especially Jade and Reno one because they are way less vulnerable to Rats,Deathlord and Coldlights and such), Aggro Shaman, Tempo Odd Rogue, Kingsbane Mill Rogue, Buff the Kingsbane Rogue, Tempo Dragon Warrior, Control DMH Warrior, Wild Cubelock, Midrange Hunter, Big Beast Hunter, Aggro Paladin, Anyfin Paladin, OTK Quest Priest, Jade Druid, Mill Druid, Exodia Mage( has really polarised matchups though), Big Rogue(55% winrate according to HS.Replay) I surely missed a few not only because my brain is too tired at 1 AM but also because there are too many of them :D. I' m not even talking about unexpectancy factor ad all the semi viable decks that are in Tier 3 and below. So yeah, I would call it a pretty huge diversity.
If you don't want to play any of these deck mentioned. Play your homebrew deck. I'm consistently climbing with my builds and unexpected things like Evolve Jade Shudderwock Shaman, Even Mech N'Zoth Mage and Reno Paladin.
I tend to agree with the OP in that once you hit a certain rank, you kind of find yourself cornered into playing the main Control/Midrange decks they mentioned.
Going rogue can really only get you so far if you plan on hitting legend, because while some other rogue decks may be good, the number of games you have to put in to make up for having weaker streaks - is actually significant.
Does that mean that people with rogue decks don't get lucky? Of course not. But the reality is that the most efficient climbing you can do if your sights are on Legend, are to grind it out with the big boys at their on game.
That is the inherent issue with Wild in my opinion. But I am okay with that so long as it is not the same shit match in and match out like Standard.
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By my count there are roughly 4 primary Control Decks in Wild: Kingsbane/Mill Rogue, Jade Druid, Nzoth Warlock, Giant Priest. You might see a Rexar Hunter, Quest Warrior, or whatever but those are like 1/50.
Now there will always be some decks that are currently the best at control or best at aggro. However, the main problem is that most of these control decks are basically unbeatable for other control decks. Decks like Kingsbane/Mill Rogue, Jade Druid, etc have to have 85%-95% Win Rates vs most other control decks. If you are playing vs Kingsbane Rogue for example with most other control decks, your only hope for victory is almost to hope they never draw Leeching Posion. Against Jade Druid you have to hope that their Internet crashes or that they have an impossibly bad draw (no UI, no ramp or card draw, etc).
With the decks being almost unbeatable vs most other control decks, you basically are forced to play 1 of these since you have 0 chance of making much progress if everytime you face 1 of these decks it is a near auto loss.
I don't play any of these decks and I do more than well on ladder with my own variants of control decks.
I don't know what Giant priest is but I assume you mean big priest. Not a control deck and unless it has a turn 4 highroll on Barnes it is completely beatable by other highroll decks.
People run Skulking Geist in wild because jade druid is actually a decent deck. N'zoth warlock is also good, arguably not as good as renolock but still counterable.
The only deck you mentioned that has a higher winrate against control is Kingsbane Rogue.
It just feels that you're fearmongering or haven't taken the time to properly assess the meta and what counters you can use when running into trouble.
1)So your mystery control decks that you do not mention, that nobody else uses, that you do not describe or post win rates for seem to be doing well. Seems legit and also informative. I have an amazing Unicorn Priest deck that is a super secret
2)You don't think Jade Druid has a High Win Rate against Control... Um LOL. Try running 20 well known control decks outside of the ones I listed and see how many match up well vs Jade Druid. For example try it vs Reno Mage, Control Warrior, Big Shaman, etc. Feel free to choose the ones of your choice. Yes you can add in a Skulking Geist but even then isn't a great answer. Not only are you weakening your deck in 90% of the matches you play but even then there will be games vs Jade Druid where you never even draw it. Similar to how you could try teching in cards like Coldlight Oracle or Deathlord to combat other decks but soon you end up with a watered down deck with too many tech cards.
3)LOL so Big Priest isn't Control???? It sure as heck isn't Aggro and no Midrange Deck will ever consistently not have a minion on board until Turn 6. Big Priest is the definition of a Control Deck.
4)Feel Free to look at which Control decks you actually are playing against (although no idea what you consider control since you do not count Big Priest as Control LOL). There is a reason people are only playing the same exact few
If you want people to actually discuss your ideas, don't be so condensing and insulting
I've always thought the biggest problem was continued support for the aggro archetype, and to a lesser degree, combo, and that control has gotten very few new tools in the last several expansions.
Most actual Control decks (unlike any of the decks you mentioned, which are all Midrange/Combo decks) tech in various cards to deal with these matchups. Thus, they CONTROL the game until they have successfully either run their opponent out of resources or have developed their win condition. My Reno Mage deck has multiple ways to duplicate Gluttonous Ooze against the Mill matchup so I can set up enough Water Elemental to permanently freeze them. Against Jade Druid I run Skulking Geist and then remove their remaining Jades. In fact, actual CONTROL matchups end up being harder because Renolock has a much superior hero power that makes it very hard to Reno Mage to keep up. And yes, Big Priest is a huge issue, but a well timed Polymorph into a 10 mana Kazakus transform all makes the matchup possible, with some luck. Control decks in Wild that are actually control decks, are in a rut, but they do not have impossible matchups. That goes against the idea of Control.
As a player who prefers to play with my own homebrew decks, the limitations of my deck are only those that I give it. As a result, I never go into a game thinking I’ll lose, even if I get a bad mulligan or start second.
He's free to be condescending and insulting to be honest. When people are a) tilted, b) have a very linear understanding of the meta and game mechanics and use c) stats like 80-90% of decks in the meta it's pretty safe to safe they know squat about the meta at hand.
Also @MrPerfect01, all the decks that I use to climb ladder are visible on my profile cause guess what and here is a fact that might surprise you, I actually make my own wild decks to combat the meta.
I know it's kind of a hard concept to grasp but people are capable of actual thought and when a problem presents itself they try to fix it. You on the other hand, prefer to complain and pull statistics that do not exist out of your ass.
I would continue to try and educate you but your level of ignorance is equivalent to that of a mountain, so you're not worth my time. But here is some knowledge for you regarding these few wild decks you claim are so over-powered to the point that no other deck can counter-them, given that I am feeling charitable:
a) The best versions of Jade Druid have cut Jade Spirit meaning that their jade ramp up is much slower allowing you more time to locate Skulking Geist.
b) N'zoth lock is strong but it's generally not considered to be better than Renolock on ladder which is the primary deck you will find at ranks 5 to Legend.
c) News Flash, Barnes Priest is an Anti-control deck with an extreme highroll element which if it whiffs means that you have better chances to win the game.
Seriously educate yourself first if you expect anyone to take your opinion seriously and stop claiming things are unbeatable when they clearly are.
anyone got some list of the 95% kingsbane rouge must of missed it
I have been climbing fast with wild control dragon priest. Twilight acolyte/pint sized/shadow priest is very strong against Warlock and paladin. It loses to mill rogue pretty much every time, but I still have a 68% overall winrate after 40 games. Its beaten every aggro deck I've come across. I'll put up the decklist if you want it. It's very fun to play as well, since it's off meta and people don't know really what to play around.
Edit: I'm currently rank 7 with it in wild.
Insulting other people opinions while showingg off really poor knowledge about Wild is a really bold move OP.
The only true definiton of polarizing decks is Kingsbane Rogue. Which is not Control deck at all. It is multiple combo deck because A)It stalls until it goes into win condition mode. B) Coldlight Oracle+Coldlight and Kingsbane buffs are not a Control things. These are comboes that are aimed especially to destroy Control. Which every Combo deck is aimed to accomplish.
You don't have to play one of the decks that you have mentioned to win and climb the ladder. I'm copy pasting my post from other thread where I was mentioning all the Tier 1 and 2 decks. There are definitelly more than 4)
If you don't want to play any of these deck mentioned. Play your homebrew deck. I'm consistently climbing with my builds and unexpected things like Evolve Jade Shudderwock Shaman, Even Mech N'Zoth Mage and Reno Paladin.
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks
I tend to agree with the OP in that once you hit a certain rank, you kind of find yourself cornered into playing the main Control/Midrange decks they mentioned.
Going rogue can really only get you so far if you plan on hitting legend, because while some other rogue decks may be good, the number of games you have to put in to make up for having weaker streaks - is actually significant.
Does that mean that people with rogue decks don't get lucky? Of course not. But the reality is that the most efficient climbing you can do if your sights are on Legend, are to grind it out with the big boys at their on game.
That is the inherent issue with Wild in my opinion. But I am okay with that so long as it is not the same shit match in and match out like Standard.