Giant in wild are horribly annoying but they are quite beatable. I honestly do not see as many giant warlock as I used to once past rank 5 and it is because you cant get as many consistent wins compared to forms of aggro paladin. Naga and Giants are a disgusting combination though and should be nerfed, not because it is the best deck but because it can roll the dice to beat any deck by turn 5.
So the main reason cards which were considered good perviously were well stated and was the basis of many tempo/aggressive decks, while now that the card pool has increased and cards have become more synergistic/ broken simply playing above average stat lines don't cut it anymore and that's why cards like Dr. boom and piloted shredder don't really see play.
I think plenty of other cards which were staples before are cheap to craft even if they don't see play now: Death's bite, impsplosion, flamewaker. These cards could also see play in the future as they are still strong cards they just don't fit the meta now.
this ^^^
there are plenty of good or even 'OP' cards that dont see play right now just because the meta doesnt allow. Although Dr. Boom will likely make a comeback eventually if midrange becomes strong.
but dont craft imp-losion, as strong as it may be, the anti synergy with Guldan is too much.
Adding on to the trend of cards that are good, but don’t fit in the current meta, I’d add most of the Paladin legendaries. Tirion, Lightlord and Wickerflame are all very strong and Lynessa and the DK are situationally good. But the best way to play Paladin right now is with recruits or Murlocs, so none of these strong legendaries get played. Sunkerpeer is pushing the other Pally legendaries out of the game.
Any midrange card is overrated for now. There really hasn’t been a prominent midrange deck in a long time now, with the closest thing being maybe dragon priest in some variants. More often is aggro, control, or combo, and often control is just combo anyway.
Overrated cards include:
dr. Boom
piloted shredder
anyfin can happen
justicar truehart
ironically n’zoth in some cases
naga sea witch
Reno Jackson (though this card is similar to n’zoth in the sense that the card is just good, but the meta has to be just right for it)
Mysterious challenger to a degree (more like pally is so busted there isn’t a need for secrets)
And flamewaker goes on the list for me as well. It’s just clunky now and the tempo swing doesn’t compete with other wild tier plays. I would argue that all of these cards are good, but are subjectively worse for the current meta than what people remember. I can see all of these except boom and flamewaker making a comeback at some point
Even Ragnaros, the firelord feels weaker since it fell to wild. The problem isn't that these cards are weak, they remain strong cards, but the Wild meta is so much different now than what it was at the time they were shining and sent down. They aren't the power creep they used to be since there are so much more board-filling, board-clearing, aggressive decks now that your higher drops need to be consistent with your deck. Maybe the return of mechs will see Dr.7 getting stronger, same with elementals for Rag
Rag has been a weak card basically since Naxx and the massive influx of small sticky minions and aggro decks. I still have no idea why they thought it necessary to move it to the HoF because it was basically unplayable. you basically waste your turn to kill a token most of the time.
Imagine Rag in Big priest or spellstone shaman in standard format (+end turn effect twice). You can even recruit it. In many case you build a deck around Rag. This is why it is in HoF now.
I would just like to make a comment about the argument seemingly going on about Naga decks. In my opinion and as shown in the past with many decks, it is not about whether it is top tier. The point is that decks with high roll plans that are completely based on drawing 1 specific card in order to even remotely function, are not good for the game. No one feels good about Naga right now, it isn't that it wins every single match, it is that when it works, it literally the end of the game instantly for some classes and it that is based on nothing besides "Hey I drew my Naga." It is a deck with no technical skill required, you just delay till turn five or a turn near that and then flood the board and win against any deck that lacks a board clear immediately right at that moment.
I run Dr Boom in quest reno pally since it's the strongest turn 7 one-of you can find and gives immediate and imposing board. Usually turn 6 or 7 they are trying to clean up my existing board, then you just drop boom...it's same as it's always been, whoever drops the dr first wins. But yeah I guess you can say he's worse than he was or the meta isn't as good but I don't see why you wouldn't craft him if you somehow didn't have him
Everyone who says Reno is weak should be ashamed. Like healing back to full health and basically "restarting" the match is surely weak in any state of game am I right? Like who would want that lol xDDDD
Its the overall power level of the new cards -- and their synergy -- that made Reno weaker. Often, in spite of healing back to 30, you'll just be crushed back after the next wave of minions, if not only the state of the board when playing reno.
Everyone who says Reno is weak should be ashamed. Like healing back to full health and basically "restarting" the match is surely weak in any state of game am I right? Like who would want that lol xDDDD
Its the overall power level of the new cards -- and their synergy -- that made Reno weaker. Often, in spite of healing back to 30, you'll just be crushed back after the next wave of minions, if not only the state of the board when playing reno.
Powerlevel of new cards doesnt matters... I dont have any problems with climbing :) but its just harder and harder to actually master renolock...there is big difference between some1 who played mybe 100 games with it and some1 who played 1000+ games with it.... Like 5 mins ago i won vs mirror matchup...his decision making was awful.. Like whole game he was using cards that i'd never use in that particularly situation... And some cards that he had in deck like refreshment vendor, vodwalker, defender of argus etc...those cards was good back in days but in renodecks you have only one core card and its RENO xd any other card you can substitute with new cards with same or more POWERLEVEL (how you would say it)...
Everyone that thinks that Ragnaros is weak should delete their Hearthstone account ASAP.
Show me at least one tier one or two (or even three) deck that contains Ragnaros the Firelord
Big priest...mine renolock...
Okay, I forgot about cheating rag on turn 4/6, but Renolock?
Yes i like him and will run him in my deck but it depending on what i encounter thru ladder :) if its control then his is beast, if aggro then i like leach king more :) dude i have renolock which you wont see ever xd mybe like 5 guys playing the same deck as me but it is coincidence xd
Looking at the 100 most-played cards in the format sheds some light on the game . . .
Twenty-four of the 100 most-played cards cost 6+ mana. Eight of those are meant to be "cheated" into play, one way or another. Of the remaining 16 cards, only three don't immediately impact the board when they are played - Emperor Thaurissan, Sylvanas Windrunner and Aluneth. They all cost 6 mana, which is suggestive - spending 7+ mana on a card which doesn't prevent the opponent from winning the game on their turn simply isn't worth it. Dr. Boom fell off the top 100 list during KFC - he is currently restricted to Secret Paladin (about one-third of SP decks choose to run him) and Secret Mage (he's in about one-fifth of SM decks.) His play-rate in other classes is about 1%, and overall it's about 4%.
A few people have suggested that Reno Jackson isn't worth crafting - overall, Reno decks are running at about 52% on HSReplays. His play-rate in the three Kabal classes is between 10%-15%. I've played close to 3,000 games with Reno Hunter since LoE - looking at the stats, it's the only non-Kabal class in which Reno regularly posts a positive win-rate, and his play-rate in Hunter as a result is usually between 6%-8%. The deck also seems to get a play-rate boost whenever DaneHS posts a Reno Hunter video on YT. Otherwise, it's to be expected that when the Kabal classes have access to higher win-rate decks than Reno, then Reno will have a lower play-rate - otherwise, it will be high. Prior to K&C, Reno was the third most-played Legendary in the format. After the nerf to Raza the Chained, and the development of Nagalock, Reno dropped to #13 among the Legendaries.
Looking at the 100 most-played cards in the format sheds some light on the game . . .
Twenty-four of the 100 most-played cards cost 6+ mana. Eight of those are meant to be "cheated" into play, one way or another. Of the remaining 16 cards, only three don't immediately impact the board when they are played - Emperor Thaurissan, Sylvanas Windrunner and Aluneth. They all cost 6 mana, which is suggestive - spending 7+ mana on a card which doesn't prevent the opponent from winning the game on their turn simply isn't worth it. Dr. Boom fell off the top 100 list during KFC - he is currently restricted to Secret Paladin (about one-third of SP decks choose to run him) and Secret Mage (he's in about one-fifth of SM decks.) His play-rate in other classes is about 1%, and overall it's about 4%.
A few people have suggested that Reno Jackson isn't worth crafting - overall, Reno decks are running at about 52% on HSReplays. His play-rate in the three Kabal classes is between 10%-15%. I've played close to 3,000 games with Reno Hunter since LoE - looking at the stats, it's the only non-Kabal class in which Reno regularly posts a positive win-rate, and his play-rate in Hunter as a result is usually between 6%-8%. The deck also seems to get a play-rate boost whenever DaneHS posts a Reno Hunter video on YT. Otherwise, it's to be expected that when the Kabal classes have access to higher win-rate decks than Reno, then Reno will have a lower play-rate - otherwise, it will be high. Prior to K&C, Reno was the third most-played Legendary in the format. After the nerf to Raza the Chained, and the development of Nagalock, Reno dropped to #13 among the Legendaries.
I like this guy here. I will add one thing on your post :) reno will see play forever..so many options for deckbuilders are there xD but i dont understand why standard players think that everything that was op. before wild/standard mode, is still op...
Loatheb doesnt see so much play like in past
Dr boom like mybe 2 decks run him and it is situational
Mysterious challenger doesnt see plat that much
Reno isnt played so much like before rotation was introduced
Piloted shreder...no need to say anything
Ragnaros see a little bit of play now
All cards from naxx brm loe (legendary/epics) arent used so much that was abused before...cause new cards comes out very often
Everyone who says Reno is weak should be ashamed. Like healing back to full health and basically "restarting" the match is surely weak in any state of game am I right? Like who would want that lol xDDDD
Its the overall power level of the new cards -- and their synergy -- that made Reno weaker. Often, in spite of healing back to 30, you'll just be crushed back after the next wave of minions, if not only the state of the board when playing reno.
I still disagree. We are far more ahead than in LoE and Reno decks are consistent enough to be Tier 2 decks now( at least Kabal varriations). Having consistent deck enough with only 1 copy of each card, while having useful Highlander Legendaries (Mainly Kazakus, Kruul and Raza) and Reno on top of that is really powerfull. Even tho Reno Mage doesnt use Solia that much, the fact that it has access to Ice Block and Freeze effects makes that deck really powerfull and it can crawl from almost any bad situation.
Well, it's not about Dr. Boom or something, but if you can't cheat 8/8 giant(s) for free (or better) in wild, then you are out.
That's the problem imo.
Giant in wild are horribly annoying but they are quite beatable. I honestly do not see as many giant warlock as I used to once past rank 5 and it is because you cant get as many consistent wins compared to forms of aggro paladin. Naga and Giants are a disgusting combination though and should be nerfed, not because it is the best deck but because it can roll the dice to beat any deck by turn 5.
Adding on to the trend of cards that are good, but don’t fit in the current meta, I’d add most of the Paladin legendaries. Tirion, Lightlord and Wickerflame are all very strong and Lynessa and the DK are situationally good. But the best way to play Paladin right now is with recruits or Murlocs, so none of these strong legendaries get played. Sunkerpeer is pushing the other Pally legendaries out of the game.
Check out my fun and innovative decks here:
Beat your opponent to a pulp with Revenant Warrior or outlast them with Demon Reno Warlock.
Any midrange card is overrated for now. There really hasn’t been a prominent midrange deck in a long time now, with the closest thing being maybe dragon priest in some variants. More often is aggro, control, or combo, and often control is just combo anyway.
Overrated cards include:
dr. Boom
piloted shredder
anyfin can happen
justicar truehart
ironically n’zoth in some cases
naga sea witch
Reno Jackson (though this card is similar to n’zoth in the sense that the card is just good, but the meta has to be just right for it)
Mysterious challenger to a degree (more like pally is so busted there isn’t a need for secrets)
And flamewaker goes on the list for me as well. It’s just clunky now and the tempo swing doesn’t compete with other wild tier plays. I would argue that all of these cards are good, but are subjectively worse for the current meta than what people remember. I can see all of these except boom and flamewaker making a comeback at some point
I would just like to make a comment about the argument seemingly going on about Naga decks. In my opinion and as shown in the past with many decks, it is not about whether it is top tier. The point is that decks with high roll plans that are completely based on drawing 1 specific card in order to even remotely function, are not good for the game. No one feels good about Naga right now, it isn't that it wins every single match, it is that when it works, it literally the end of the game instantly for some classes and it that is based on nothing besides "Hey I drew my Naga." It is a deck with no technical skill required, you just delay till turn five or a turn near that and then flood the board and win against any deck that lacks a board clear immediately right at that moment.
I run Dr Boom in quest reno pally since it's the strongest turn 7 one-of you can find and gives immediate and imposing board. Usually turn 6 or 7 they are trying to clean up my existing board, then you just drop boom...it's same as it's always been, whoever drops the dr first wins. But yeah I guess you can say he's worse than he was or the meta isn't as good but I don't see why you wouldn't craft him if you somehow didn't have him
It is situational.. you are low with your hp? What is better?
1, oponent play ragnaros
2. oponent play lich king... take your choice...
same with dr. boom... few months ago there was thread about cons and pros boom vs bonemare for example at 7 mana before nerf...
1. you have empty board and your oponent too and play bonemare? - bullshit, you need minion on board
2. you have empty board aswell as your oponent and oyu play boom? he must feel pain in ass after this
"What have you got there,
PinocchioMalygos?"Actually I'm glad rag got sent to wild. Can't imagine a big priest with rag in it.
True, sadly, I hope the power level will drop down next exp but it can be too late
Looking at the 100 most-played cards in the format sheds some light on the game . . .
Twenty-four of the 100 most-played cards cost 6+ mana. Eight of those are meant to be "cheated" into play, one way or another. Of the remaining 16 cards, only three don't immediately impact the board when they are played - Emperor Thaurissan, Sylvanas Windrunner and Aluneth. They all cost 6 mana, which is suggestive - spending 7+ mana on a card which doesn't prevent the opponent from winning the game on their turn simply isn't worth it. Dr. Boom fell off the top 100 list during KFC - he is currently restricted to Secret Paladin (about one-third of SP decks choose to run him) and Secret Mage (he's in about one-fifth of SM decks.) His play-rate in other classes is about 1%, and overall it's about 4%.
A few people have suggested that Reno Jackson isn't worth crafting - overall, Reno decks are running at about 52% on HSReplays. His play-rate in the three Kabal classes is between 10%-15%. I've played close to 3,000 games with Reno Hunter since LoE - looking at the stats, it's the only non-Kabal class in which Reno regularly posts a positive win-rate, and his play-rate in Hunter as a result is usually between 6%-8%. The deck also seems to get a play-rate boost whenever DaneHS posts a Reno Hunter video on YT. Otherwise, it's to be expected that when the Kabal classes have access to higher win-rate decks than Reno, then Reno will have a lower play-rate - otherwise, it will be high. Prior to K&C, Reno was the third most-played Legendary in the format. After the nerf to Raza the Chained, and the development of Nagalock, Reno dropped to #13 among the Legendaries.
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks