Hey guys, Seraph here, you might know me from such community-wide disappointments as the original Dragon Paladin and the briefly "popular" (and contrary to the former, actually good) Dragon Shaman TGT deck.
As a long time Shaman player I have waited for a time when a non-aggro archetype for the class could enter the top tier of decks in the game. TGT promised to buff Totem Shaman, and it did succeed... To a small extent. TGT Totem Shaman is playable but not high tier.
Now WoToG gives Shaman a large number of high value and high tempo cards that when combined with the already strong tools in the Shaman class, can hopefully now push the class into the top. Midrange Shaman is now not totally reliant on totem synergy but also "evolution" synergy, that being the new cards that transform minions to a higher mana cost. The key point imo is that both of these mechanics not only synergise within themselves but with each other, allowing you to either buff your totems or turn them into 2 mana minions and more - so that finally there is a midrange deck for Shaman that has a strong play on every turn.
So I've put together a midrange deck that combines the best tempo plays in the class and included some stats on which minions in the deck are best to evolve here. Shoutout to evolution + Jeweled Scarab, turning an already excellent Shaman card into an insectoid overlord:
That's why I think that Evolve is a one of card, whilst Master of Evolution is a two of. Evolve is for those occasions when you have a big board of totems but not much to do with them, which happens sometimes but not often, hence the 1 of. However at 1 mana, casting it on just about anything is not a bad deal to be honest imo.
But there is some particularly synergy with Battlecry/Discover cards and Evolve, and Shaman runs those already, so I do think the mechanic is well suited to the class.
But yeah as is always the case with Shaman, we're relying on board presence, but that's a fundamental requirement for the class when it's not playing face decks. No way around that given our hero power, but that's fine.
Cool deck, bro. My own thought was to dial back on the spell damage and work more the battlecry side of the street with Brann and Rumbling Elementals, but that's mostly because I'm a F2P scrub and don't expect to draw or craft Hallazeal.
Brann+Master of Evolution double evolve, that's the dream.
Nice ideas! It's definitely very tempting to run Brann in Shaman, I think he might fit best in the slightly slower more controlly decks.
Nice to see we both think 1 Trogg is fine ;)
Well, a 1 mana 1/3 is pretty good, but considering we're both only running a small handful of Overload cards (4-6) we'd need to get pretty lucky to squeeze the value out.
Your page had a pretty good point about Feral Spirit, I may take him out. Not a great Evolve target and odds are pretty decent you'll pull them anyway with Jeweled Scarabs if you need them.
Thats gonna be a good deck but why not play Flamewreathed Faceless on turn 4 its a early 7,7 which will bw hard to deal with + it`s good together with other cards like tunneltrogg and sentinel because of overload.
Hmm, the decks seem quite good, wanna just point out couple things as thinking points ^^
1. First deck has 1 draw in the form of Azure Drake and both have 2 "psuedo" draws with Scarab. That is quite low for a class that tends to run out of its cards even with more draw options (of course the value cards of WotoG MIGHT help that). Usually that leads to topdecking around turn 8 at which point the decks singular cards start to get worrying as you don't want to topdeck something like Evolve as you most likely will be fighting for board control with last of your power and probably need to trade minions rather than just damaging your own.
2. You're running Al-Akir and TBV as your main condition in addition to playing value minions, but how good of a win condition is Al-Akir without Rockbiters or even Mistcaller to give him that small extra buff(its not a bad card, it just needs deck around that can curve well and survive longer games). That means your Al-Akirs best burst potential at the moment is with Flametongue which means 10 damage, which isn't that high. Of course you have some burn spells but I'm not sure how much 1 lava and 1 bolt will add.
Overall that makes Al-Akir a control tool rather than finisher which might make it hard for your deck to beat those greedy control decks it's supposed to as they can just play and wait until they play their win condo/old god etc.
3.Overall couple cards you could consider adding, Rockbiters for burst. Argus for value trades and those necessary taunts which you have 3 at the moment in your deck. Cult Master/Mana Tide for more draw (Former works surprisingly well as you tend to flood abit and trade with that flood). Evolve is a card that I can't really process yet as it in theory and in a vacuum is a good card, but how often do you get those damaged minions evolved and how often it's just a REALLY bad draw as you desperately need minions to play? (After playing 25 minion shammy deck, still I wound up with double hex and healing wave as my cards in hand..) As for 1-drops as you run only 1 Trogg which I agree as you don't have that many overload cards and they really don't want to be used only for buffing him, You might want to consider Argent Squire as she has so good synergy with Flametongue and the rockbiters and argus if you happen to add them.
Just couple thinking points for now, myself also creating the control/midrange deck but still have like 35 cards in the deck ^^
P.S. Mysterious that suddenly shaman forums has come back to life as it has been so dead last couple months? ;)
Hmm, the decks seem quite good, wanna just point out couple things as thinking points ^^
1. First deck has 1 draw in the form of Azure Drake and both have 2 "psuedo" draws with Scarab. That is quite low for a class that tends to run out of its cards even with more draw options (of course the value cards of WotoG MIGHT help that). Usually that leads to topdecking around turn 8 at which point the decks singular cards start to get worrying as you don't want to topdeck something like Evolve as you most likely will be fighting for board control with last of your power and probably need to trade minions rather than just damaging your own.
2. You're running Al-Akir and TBV as your main condition in addition to playing value minions, but how good of a win condition is Al-Akir without Rockbiters or even Mistcaller to give him that small extra buff(its not a bad card, it just needs deck around that can curve well and survive longer games). That means your Al-Akirs best burst potential at the moment is with Flametongue which means 10 damage, which isn't that high. Of course you have some burn spells but I'm not sure how much 1 lava and 1 bolt will add.
Overall that makes Al-Akir a control tool rather than finisher which might make it hard for your deck to beat those greedy control decks it's supposed to as they can just play and wait until they play their win condo/old god etc.
3.Overall couple cards you could consider adding, Rockbiters for burst. Argus for value trades and those necessary taunts which you have 3 at the moment in your deck. Cult Master/Mana Tide for more draw (Former works surprisingly well as you tend to flood abit and trade with that flood). Evolve is a card that I can't really process yet as it in theory and in a vacuum is a good card, but how often do you get those damaged minions evolved and how often it's just a REALLY bad draw as you desperately need minions to play? (After playing 25 minion shammy deck, still I wound up with double hex and healing wave as my cards in hand..) As for 1-drops as you run only 1 Trogg which I agree as you don't have that many overload cards and they really don't want to be used only for buffing him, You might want to consider Argent Squire as she has so good synergy with Flametongue and the rockbiters and argus if you happen to add them.
Just couple thinking points for now, myself also creating the control/midrange deck but still have like 35 cards in the deck ^^
P.S. Mysterious that suddenly shaman forums has come back to life as it has been so dead last couple months? ;)
You've picked up on the two main points that are driving me mad haha 1) Do we cut another 5 drop eg. the Hammer for a Drake? 2) Which combination of burn spells/Rockbiter do we run?
I think the honest answer is we will have to experiment to find out, and that burn wise those cards may change according to the meta. Al'Akir to me is a swiss army knife rather than something I save purely for Rockbiter combos, he helps secure the board and tempo which is what Shaman relies on after all, and with Flametongue's he's still 10 damage which is often enough.
So yeah my main uncertainties are card draw with 1 Drake and which burn spells we run. Perhaps we could drop Lava Burst and run the second Drake?
Thats gonna be a good deck but why not play Flamewreathed Faceless on turn 4 its a early 7,7 which will bw hard to deal with + it`s good together with other cards like tunneltrogg and sentinel because of overload.
I think Flamewreathed Faceless is a top tier card but it has strong counter synergy with the evolution mechanic. I think there is a slightly more aggressive midrange overload Shaman that runs these with Elemental Destruction, Earth Elementals, Fireguard Destroyers and Eternal Sentinels - but I don't think you run them with evolve.
Speaking for my deck, I could probably tighten it up to afford more card draw. Maybe one of the Thunder Bluff Valiants, maybe the Stormforged Axe, maybe the Flame Juggler. Maybe even one of the Fire Elementals; great as they are, they don't combo so well with Rumbling Elemental or Evolve. The 7 mana slot has some great minions and some pretty crappy ones, and Fire Elementals are already statted pretty well for their mana.
... Not really? Moving a weak or damaged minion up a mana point is always going to be advantageous, even if it's not game-winningly so. It's not going to lose you the game, at the very least.
Actually, it could quite easily. Evolve a card like Al'Akir for example and you've got just as much chance of getting Majordomo as you do of getting Ysera. All other 9 drops are basically just big bodies (Malygos is situational) and so you've got a chance at something great, something bad and a bigger chance at something meh. But the chance of getting something good or bad is significantly larger at 8 evolved to 9 than it is a 1 evolved to 2, for example, where the only backfire is Darnassus Aspirant or Doomsayer (occasionally).
Actually, it could quite easily. Evolve a card like Al'Akir for example and you've got just as much chance of getting Majordomo as you do of getting Ysera. All other 9 drops are basically just big bodies (Malygos is situational) and so you've got a chance at something great, something bad and a bigger chance at something meh. But the chance of getting something good or bad is significantly larger at 8 evolved to 9 than it is a 1 evolved to 2, for example, where the only backfire is Darnassus Aspirant or Doomsayer (occasionally).
... Why would you ever evolve Al'Akir?
Once Al'Akir has taken out two minions, if he's still alive, evoking him into a 9 drop is absolutely amazing.
Al'Air is supposed to be your finisher, right? I suppose if he's used up, it doesn't really matter if you Evolve a Majordomo, you might be able to squeeze out a win anyway.
I agree with those seeing insufficient late-game threat and insufficient draw. The dearly-departed Neptulon did both, and his loss stings, in my opinion.
In terms of late-game threats to replace Boom and Neptulon, there is nothing in the new set, so I think you've got to fall back to Ragnaros. In terms of draw, you have to include more draw minions, including a Loot Hoarder and a Thalnos if you have one (boosts Lightning Storm and/or Elemental Destruction into the bargain).
Midrange Shaman's midgame definitely got stronger with the evolve cards, but I am concerned that it will not have the punch or cards to finish strong.
What is Hearthstone to you? A fun and semi-competitive game with wacky effects and crazy RNG outcomes or just a card game you wanna grind as many wins you can get as fast as possible in?
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Hey guys, Seraph here, you might know me from such community-wide disappointments as the original Dragon Paladin and the briefly "popular" (and contrary to the former, actually good) Dragon Shaman TGT deck.
As a long time Shaman player I have waited for a time when a non-aggro archetype for the class could enter the top tier of decks in the game. TGT promised to buff Totem Shaman, and it did succeed... To a small extent. TGT Totem Shaman is playable but not high tier.
Now WoToG gives Shaman a large number of high value and high tempo cards that when combined with the already strong tools in the Shaman class, can hopefully now push the class into the top. Midrange Shaman is now not totally reliant on totem synergy but also "evolution" synergy, that being the new cards that transform minions to a higher mana cost. The key point imo is that both of these mechanics not only synergise within themselves but with each other, allowing you to either buff your totems or turn them into 2 mana minions and more - so that finally there is a midrange deck for Shaman that has a strong play on every turn.
So I've put together a midrange deck that combines the best tempo plays in the class and included some stats on which minions in the deck are best to evolve here. Shoutout to evolution + Jeweled Scarab, turning an already excellent Shaman card into an insectoid overlord:
That's why I think that Evolve is a one of card, whilst Master of Evolution is a two of. Evolve is for those occasions when you have a big board of totems but not much to do with them, which happens sometimes but not often, hence the 1 of. However at 1 mana, casting it on just about anything is not a bad deal to be honest imo.
But there is some particularly synergy with Battlecry/Discover cards and Evolve, and Shaman runs those already, so I do think the mechanic is well suited to the class.
But yeah as is always the case with Shaman, we're relying on board presence, but that's a fundamental requirement for the class when it's not playing face decks. No way around that given our hero power, but that's fine.
I think it actually buffs aggro shaman...Charge wolf, then evolve into stickier minion, stuff like that
Cool deck, bro. My own thought was to dial back on the spell damage and work more the battlecry side of the street with Brann and Rumbling Elementals, but that's mostly because I'm a F2P scrub and don't expect to draw or craft Hallazeal.
Brann+Master of Evolution double evolve, that's the dream.
Something like this:
Nice ideas! It's definitely very tempting to run Brann in Shaman, I think he might fit best in the slightly slower more controlly decks.
Nice to see we both think 1 Trogg is fine ;)
Thats gonna be a good deck but why not play Flamewreathed Faceless on turn 4 its a early 7,7 which will bw hard to deal with + it`s good together with other cards like tunneltrogg and sentinel because of overload.
Hmm, the decks seem quite good, wanna just point out couple things as thinking points ^^
1. First deck has 1 draw in the form of Azure Drake and both have 2 "psuedo" draws with Scarab. That is quite low for a class that tends to run out of its cards even with more draw options (of course the value cards of WotoG MIGHT help that). Usually that leads to topdecking around turn 8 at which point the decks singular cards start to get worrying as you don't want to topdeck something like Evolve as you most likely will be fighting for board control with last of your power and probably need to trade minions rather than just damaging your own.
2. You're running Al-Akir and TBV as your main condition in addition to playing value minions, but how good of a win condition is Al-Akir without Rockbiters or even Mistcaller to give him that small extra buff(its not a bad card, it just needs deck around that can curve well and survive longer games). That means your Al-Akirs best burst potential at the moment is with Flametongue which means 10 damage, which isn't that high. Of course you have some burn spells but I'm not sure how much 1 lava and 1 bolt will add.
Overall that makes Al-Akir a control tool rather than finisher which might make it hard for your deck to beat those greedy control decks it's supposed to as they can just play and wait until they play their win condo/old god etc.
3.Overall couple cards you could consider adding, Rockbiters for burst. Argus for value trades and those necessary taunts which you have 3 at the moment in your deck. Cult Master/Mana Tide for more draw (Former works surprisingly well as you tend to flood abit and trade with that flood). Evolve is a card that I can't really process yet as it in theory and in a vacuum is a good card, but how often do you get those damaged minions evolved and how often it's just a REALLY bad draw as you desperately need minions to play? (After playing 25 minion shammy deck, still I wound up with double hex and healing wave as my cards in hand..) As for 1-drops as you run only 1 Trogg which I agree as you don't have that many overload cards and they really don't want to be used only for buffing him, You might want to consider Argent Squire as she has so good synergy with Flametongue and the rockbiters and argus if you happen to add them.
Just couple thinking points for now, myself also creating the control/midrange deck but still have like 35 cards in the deck ^^
P.S. Mysterious that suddenly shaman forums has come back to life as it has been so dead last couple months? ;)
Surprise!
Can't get over the idea of running Onyxia with Evolve, very tempting
Speaking for my deck, I could probably tighten it up to afford more card draw. Maybe one of the Thunder Bluff Valiants, maybe the Stormforged Axe, maybe the Flame Juggler. Maybe even one of the Fire Elementals; great as they are, they don't combo so well with Rumbling Elemental or Evolve. The 7 mana slot has some great minions and some pretty crappy ones, and Fire Elementals are already statted pretty well for their mana.
Dont forget the 'evolve' mechanic is going to be incredibly unreliable. THe RNG could lose you games just as easily as it wins them.
... Not really? Moving a weak or damaged minion up a mana point is always going to be advantageous, even if it's not game-winningly so. It's not going to lose you the game, at the very least.
Al'Air is supposed to be your finisher, right? I suppose if he's used up, it doesn't really matter if you Evolve a Majordomo, you might be able to squeeze out a win anyway.
I agree with those seeing insufficient late-game threat and insufficient draw. The dearly-departed Neptulon did both, and his loss stings, in my opinion.
In terms of late-game threats to replace Boom and Neptulon, there is nothing in the new set, so I think you've got to fall back to Ragnaros. In terms of draw, you have to include more draw minions, including a Loot Hoarder and a Thalnos if you have one (boosts Lightning Storm and/or Elemental Destruction into the bargain).
Midrange Shaman's midgame definitely got stronger with the evolve cards, but I am concerned that it will not have the punch or cards to finish strong.
I went a slightly different way with it
You probably want to trade the Darkspeaker with a 2nd Defender of Argus, but I wanna try it out first :P
What is Hearthstone to you?
A fun and semi-competitive game with wacky effects and crazy RNG outcomes or just a card game you wanna grind as many wins you can get as fast as possible in?