"Nerf Miracle Rogue!" They said! Now we have Patron Warrior - A deck that essentially accomplishes the same thing but is more more efficient at it since it can win from so many different angles and had multiple win conditions.
"Nerf Miracle Rogue!" They said! Now we have Patron Warrior - A deck that essentially accomplishes the same thing but is more more efficient at it since it can win from so many different angles and had multiple win conditions.
This is what bugs me the most. I remember Blizzard specifically saying that Miracle Rogue was "uninteractive" and that watching your opponent play their entire deck in one turn wasn't fun to play against. Well, is watching two 28/1's with charge hit your face through two taunts with any amount of HP interactive?
With that being said, Miracle Rogue needed to die....but sadly the class itself never recovered fully :<
Miracle had a beautiful elegance to it, with all of the different types of combos working together--the Leeroy again and again, the double draws on things like Shiv--it was a very thoughtful and interesting approach to the game, and it always depended on a bit of luck because of the reasonable chance of not drawing Auctioneer. I don't know what will happen with Rogue in the future, but the developers don't seem to comprehend how fragile the class is. She's actually gotten quite a bit worse with this new expansion, after tanking hard post BRM. I don't really think Rogue is even remotely playable at the moment, which is about the worst I've ever seen a class be in this game. Shaman and Priest were bad last season, but they were playable, and you could reach legendary with them. Rogue right now? I think you'd have trouble treading water at rank 10. It's both hard to play and very bad.
I'm using Nostam's list but with some minor changes. The original had 1 extra Argent Squire and Assassin's Blade, that I replaced with Flame Juggler and Perdition's Blade. Too be honest, I'm thinking on replacing the Juggler for something else, but I'll test it some more
If the deck was un-nerfed today it might be balanced given the many, many counters available, but I wouldn't risk it if I were Blizzard. I don't think the class is as weak as you say (can't get past rank 10? Cmon...) but they are trying to push minion-based Rogue too much, and that's not happening unless they introduce some blatantly overpowered minions. I guess now Rogue took Priest's place as the game's gimmick class.
I have to disagree with it warping the meta. Miracle Rogue had its counters despite common belief. Against Handlock, the removal in the deck just didn't do enough against the high HP minions and sap in this matchup didn't do enough since Miracle Rogue didn't run enough minions to take advantage of the tempo from Sap. Against aggro, if the aggro player had an above average curve, it just didn't matter how well you drew because you would end up taking too much damage before you could unleash your combo.
I fully understand that nobody enjoyed playing against Miracle Rogue and that it WAS a top tier deck but there are some things you have to consider. Miracle Rogue was as dominant as it was because there was a vastly smaller card pool at the time and a non-existent power creep from the lack of card expansions. The meta was basically three decks - Miracle Rogue and the two decks that countered it which was Face Hunter and Handlock. When Naxx dropped, all the Deathrattle cards, most notably Sludge Belcher, and the addition of Loatheb were all indirect nerfs to Miracle Rogue.
Patron Warrior on the other hand, is posing a big problem right now.. If there ever was a deck that is warping the meta, it is this deck. Over a hundred cards had just been released and this expansion has made what was already the dominant deck in the game even more dominant because everyone is playing slower and less aggressive decks which combo decks thrive on. When an expansion of this scale is introduced to the game and it only serves to make the strongest deck even stronger, then there's obviously something wrong with this picture.
Whether Blizzard decides to do something about it, only time will tell..
Malygos rogue, aggro rogue, miracle, oil, mill, tempo and pirate,rogue has 7 archetype that work so stop whining and try to master them instead of saying only oil rogue works and is shit. There are exclusive rogue players in every top 10 legend in na and eu in august, rogue is still a great class but it is certainly one of the hardest class to play because it relies on spells more than minions and you will not get a turn 5 win with anything but aggro, every game requires a lot of thinking and knowing how to maximize your spells to play around your opponent's deck. I agree though that tgt didn't bring a lot of exciting novelty to the class but i have been having a lot of fun playing a ddragon rogue with malygos, chillmaw and twilight guardians. It is still a great class to play and it didn t need as many new good class cards as shaman or priest wich nobody took to top 10 legend last couple of seasons.
I donno about the rest of you but I'm having MORE FUN than I can remember playing Rogue since TGT came out.
Burgle is just an awesome card. I don't know how you can argue against that. Buccaneer is a fabulous 1 drop. A+ card. Skycap'n Kragg isn't a tier 1 legendary by any means but definitely is a solid addition. Shady Dealer can be one of the most powerful 3 drops in the game.
So yeah... not sure what all the complaining is about =)
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Skycap'n Kragg is so bad. At 7 mana it's weak. You need 1 pirate on board at turn 6, 2 on turn 5, 3 on turn 4. Dunno about you - I've never seen any pirate survive an opponent turn, as almost all have low hp.
Burgle also sucks because it's way too random. The cards you're going to get are not necessarily good enough to fit in a competitive deck (like priest's 3 mana spell), and they are not necessarily spells that are usually decent (like Nefarian). Sure, you can get a good pull. Much more likely you'll get something you don't need or that is over costed since you lack synergy. If it were 3 cards instead of 2, then it was good.
Buccaneer Is mediocre. You're unlikely to benefit from it more than once, which kinda makes it comparable with Upgrade! \ Deadly Poison.
I think also Rogue could have gotten some better love, but on the other Hand we are maybe just not open for the new Cards and therefore cannot see how good this is actually. Dont know really, but what i do know, i like playing rogue with so many spells, getting it based to more minions, feels gnaaa
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only those with Straw in their heads fear the Spark of Truth
i got destroyed each time a rogue used it against me, it has a high tendency to release several 4/4 at my turn. And if you don't have removal, you are dead.
3 mana for 3 x 4/4, a joke ?? are you joking lol
i got double Beneath the Ground'ed once, it release 3 or 4 nerubian at my turn 7.. and without giving me my flamestrike too. Other times, it's usually 2 nerubian going out at the same time. But i'm a bit unlucky usually, so that's ok
Even if you had the flamestrike, you still had to deal with 2 or 3 more nerubians and you would have wasted your AoE for 1 opponent's card.
So, I agree that the card is not a joke but too inconsistent...
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'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact'
It is indeed a sad day when fans understand the class mechanics more than the designers of the game.
They just don't care. Take shaman, shaman is good in a slow meta game, in fact it's actually pretty strong, it's technically a weaker druid (Because skill combo is just too strong) but it isn't at all bad during the slow meta games.... Rogues however have been incredibly inconsistent, either you get the god hand, tempo out your opponent and just win the game. Or you don't get the god hand and fall apart being unable to really do any thing / run out of cards.
Their response? Buff the hell out of shamans, whom, again, were only suffering because of the cancerous aggressive meta. Give literally nothing to rogues, nothing. We can't effectively use joust, we can't use inspire at all, and we're still the 'buff weapon' class that has no weapons that are immune to ooze effects.
"Rogue is also a class that could really afford to have secrets."
^Exactly^ Who at Blizzard is responsible for the FUBAR flavor-fail of giving Palys secrets and rogues not? Since when are paladins sneaky and have anything to hide? Conversely, of all the 9 classes rogue is the MOST sneaky and they don't get secrets? Really, makes zero sense from a flavor POV..
Agreed. Palys have secrets and Priests have the ability to steal. Is Blizzard passive/aggressively commenting on the state of modern day religious personnel? I think so. :)
Seriously though, I find it sad that Rogue is in the sorry state it's in. Any play style you think Rogue might be able to pull off. Another class does it better by a lot. I commend MrYagut and the other Rogue pros that still have success with the class, it's definitely a thinking mans class nowadays.
Blizzard really should do a reset and rectify this classes flavor and mechanics. Stealing and secrets belong to Rogues not clergy and zealots.
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Poisoned Blade. Enough said.
tempo rogue was my first good deck back in beta when dark iron gave +2 perm
now i dont even feel like playing it anymore since its the same deck over and over
saw ek0p stream today where he was doing a gauntlet with class decks and rogue was the only one that is the same even before brm came out.
we want new good stuff too
"Nerf Miracle Rogue!" They said! Now we have Patron Warrior - A deck that essentially accomplishes the same thing but is more more efficient at it since it can win from so many different angles and had multiple win conditions.
Miracle had a beautiful elegance to it, with all of the different types of combos working together--the Leeroy again and again, the double draws on things like Shiv--it was a very thoughtful and interesting approach to the game, and it always depended on a bit of luck because of the reasonable chance of not drawing Auctioneer. I don't know what will happen with Rogue in the future, but the developers don't seem to comprehend how fragile the class is. She's actually gotten quite a bit worse with this new expansion, after tanking hard post BRM. I don't really think Rogue is even remotely playable at the moment, which is about the worst I've ever seen a class be in this game. Shaman and Priest were bad last season, but they were playable, and you could reach legendary with them. Rogue right now? I think you'd have trouble treading water at rank 10. It's both hard to play and very bad.
I'm using Nostam's list but with some minor changes. The original had 1 extra Argent Squire and Assassin's Blade, that I replaced with Flame Juggler and Perdition's Blade. Too be honest, I'm thinking on replacing the Juggler for something else, but I'll test it some more
I have to disagree with it warping the meta. Miracle Rogue had its counters despite common belief. Against Handlock, the removal in the deck just didn't do enough against the high HP minions and sap in this matchup didn't do enough since Miracle Rogue didn't run enough minions to take advantage of the tempo from Sap. Against aggro, if the aggro player had an above average curve, it just didn't matter how well you drew because you would end up taking too much damage before you could unleash your combo.
I fully understand that nobody enjoyed playing against Miracle Rogue and that it WAS a top tier deck but there are some things you have to consider. Miracle Rogue was as dominant as it was because there was a vastly smaller card pool at the time and a non-existent power creep from the lack of card expansions. The meta was basically three decks - Miracle Rogue and the two decks that countered it which was Face Hunter and Handlock. When Naxx dropped, all the Deathrattle cards, most notably Sludge Belcher, and the addition of Loatheb were all indirect nerfs to Miracle Rogue.
Patron Warrior on the other hand, is posing a big problem right now.. If there ever was a deck that is warping the meta, it is this deck. Over a hundred cards had just been released and this expansion has made what was already the dominant deck in the game even more dominant because everyone is playing slower and less aggressive decks which combo decks thrive on. When an expansion of this scale is introduced to the game and it only serves to make the strongest deck even stronger, then there's obviously something wrong with this picture.
Whether Blizzard decides to do something about it, only time will tell..
Malygos rogue, aggro rogue, miracle, oil, mill, tempo and pirate,rogue has 7 archetype that work so stop whining and try to master them instead of saying only oil rogue works and is shit. There are exclusive rogue players in every top 10 legend in na and eu in august, rogue is still a great class but it is certainly one of the hardest class to play because it relies on spells more than minions and you will not get a turn 5 win with anything but aggro, every game requires a lot of thinking and knowing how to maximize your spells to play around your opponent's deck. I agree though that tgt didn't bring a lot of exciting novelty to the class but i have been having a lot of fun playing a ddragon rogue with malygos, chillmaw and twilight guardians. It is still a great class to play and it didn t need as many new good class cards as shaman or priest wich nobody took to top 10 legend last couple of seasons.
I donno about the rest of you but I'm having MORE FUN than I can remember playing Rogue since TGT came out.
Burgle is just an awesome card. I don't know how you can argue against that.
Buccaneer is a fabulous 1 drop. A+ card.
Skycap'n Kragg isn't a tier 1 legendary by any means but definitely is a solid addition.
Shady Dealer can be one of the most powerful 3 drops in the game.
So yeah... not sure what all the complaining is about =)
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Skycap'n Kragg is so bad. At 7 mana it's weak. You need 1 pirate on board at turn 6, 2 on turn 5, 3 on turn 4. Dunno about you - I've never seen any pirate survive an opponent turn, as almost all have low hp.
Burgle also sucks because it's way too random. The cards you're going to get are not necessarily good enough to fit in a competitive deck (like priest's 3 mana spell), and they are not necessarily spells that are usually decent (like Nefarian). Sure, you can get a good pull. Much more likely you'll get something you don't need or that is over costed since you lack synergy. If it were 3 cards instead of 2, then it was good.
Buccaneer Is mediocre. You're unlikely to benefit from it more than once, which kinda makes it comparable with Upgrade! \ Deadly Poison.
I think also Rogue could have gotten some better love, but on the other Hand we are maybe just not open for the new Cards and therefore cannot see how good this is actually. Dont know really, but what i do know, i like playing rogue with so many spells, getting it based to more minions, feels gnaaa
only those with Straw in their heads fear the Spark of Truth
Even if you had the flamestrike, you still had to deal with 2 or 3 more nerubians and you would have wasted your AoE for 1 opponent's card.
So, I agree that the card is not a joke but too inconsistent...
'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact'
Sherlock Holmes
They just don't care. Take shaman, shaman is good in a slow meta game, in fact it's actually pretty strong, it's technically a weaker druid (Because skill combo is just too strong) but it isn't at all bad during the slow meta games.... Rogues however have been incredibly inconsistent, either you get the god hand, tempo out your opponent and just win the game. Or you don't get the god hand and fall apart being unable to really do any thing / run out of cards.
Their response? Buff the hell out of shamans, whom, again, were only suffering because of the cancerous aggressive meta. Give literally nothing to rogues, nothing. We can't effectively use joust, we can't use inspire at all, and we're still the 'buff weapon' class that has no weapons that are immune to ooze effects.
My solution to this debacle: Make Rogue The Coin class!
Vote for Stormwind Strategist in this weeks' Card Design Competition. Click the image or HERE for full view.
I would want a card like the following.
A bit OP but I'm up for it
'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact'
Sherlock Holmes
Yes, I thought so too after I posted. I'd change it to 3 health.. Comparing with Mana Wyrm, Northshire Cleric, Voidwalker or Armorsmith, I don't think that would be unreasonable.
Releasing a good rouge epic it's against the game rules.
Not going to lie, if the next xpac announced cards like these for rogue, I may actually feel an ounce of hype for HS since getting in the beta.
Unfortunately the next xpac is forever away, and my interest in hearthstone diminishes each day.
"Rogue is also a class that could really afford to have secrets."
^Exactly^ Who at Blizzard is responsible for the FUBAR flavor-fail of giving Palys secrets and rogues not? Since when are paladins sneaky and have anything to hide? Conversely, of all the 9 classes rogue is the MOST sneaky and they don't get secrets? Really, makes zero sense from a flavor POV..
Agreed. Palys have secrets and Priests have the ability to steal. Is Blizzard passive/aggressively commenting on the state of modern day religious personnel? I think so. :)
Seriously though, I find it sad that Rogue is in the sorry state it's in. Any play style you think Rogue might be able to pull off. Another class does it better by a lot. I commend MrYagut and the other Rogue pros that still have success with the class, it's definitely a thinking mans class nowadays.
Blizzard really should do a reset and rectify this classes flavor and mechanics. Stealing and secrets belong to Rogues not clergy and zealots.