Hearthpwn

Quote from Crovax998 jump

Agreed. Palys have secrets and Priests have the ability to steal. Is Blizzard passive/aggressively commenting on the state of modern day religious personnel? I think so. :)

Seriously though, I find it sad that Rogue is in the sorry state it's in. Any play style you think Rogue might be able to pull off. Another class does it better by a lot. I commend MrYagut and the other Rogue pros that still have success with the class, it's definitely a thinking mans class nowadays.

Blizzard really should do a reset and rectify this classes flavor and mechanics. Stealing and secrets belong to Rogues not clergy and zealots.

Not to say anything about the Stealth mechanic.

Worgen Infiltrator and Ravenholdt Assassin would have been so good as basic rogue cards + rogues don't even have a decent Stealth minion even if it's their mechanic in WoW. 

Blizzard really needs a refining period where they check and correct existing mistakes...

Quote from Trophycase1173 jump

If there's anything we learned about the rogue class in TGT, it's that it has the whiniest players.

So you're not going to whine if your siblings get christmas presents and you get nothing?

Quote from TimmusGG jump

Quote from Trophycase1173 jump

Also Blizzard has stated that Rogues originally did have secrets, but that they were lacking a strong identity for Paladin and that Rogue already had one with it's combo and cycle, so they gave them to Paladins instead.

And it took 18 seasons to make them viable :p

 

Didn't they have Divine Shield cards in the beginning (like Argent Protector), along with healing and buffing minions?

What do they mean by strong identity?

warlock also has (had?) additional costs-either health or cards

Quote from TimmusGG jump

Quote from Giorgioksk jump

Quote from TimmusGG jump

Quote from Trophycase1173 jump

Also Blizzard has stated that Rogues originally did have secrets, but that they were lacking a strong identity for Paladin and that Rogue already had one with it's combo and cycle, so they gave them to Paladins instead.

And it took 18 seasons to make them viable :p

 

Didn't they have Divine Shield cards in the beginning (like Argent Protector), along with healing and buffing minions?

What do they mean by strong identity?

I think something like this is the distribution of traits among all hearthstone classes.

Pretty good explanation but paladin is the only class with 4 traits. So again it doesn't make any sense giving them secrets. 

Anyway, this doesn't get anywhere because blizzard will keep going with their mistake because it will take too long and too much work to refine it (basically change the whole game). Nevertheless thank you for this!

PS: Hunters also have Smorc and Warlocks have draw and sacrifice

Quote from Trophycase1173 jump

If there's anything we learned about the rogue class in TGT, it's that it has the whiniest players.

Hey not everyone has a personality of a doormat like you, sometimes you need to call bullshit when you see it.

Personally, I would give all the classes secret type spells. I don't think any of the classes that don't have them would become OP with them added. They definitely add an element of surprise to strategies.

Quote from DKnG666 jump

Quote from Crovax998 jump

Personally, I would give all the classes secret type spells. I don't think any of the classes that don't have them would become OP with them added. They definitely add an element of surprise to strategies.

Imo a neutral card that dispels secrets would be much better - Kezan is a joke tbh.

Wouldn't that just kill the strategy altogether? I think Kezan is fine since it can throw a monkey wrench into secret players plans, but not kill the strategy completely. I know they have a mass silence, but at least you still have a body after the fact.

Quote from Trophycase1173 jump

Quote from Stingy_Eyes jump

Quote from Trophycase1173 jump

If there's anything we learned about the rogue class in TGT, it's that it has the whiniest players.

Hey not everyone has a personality of a doormat like you, sometimes you need to call bullshit when you see it.

It's just I get the impression that most of you haven't even bothered to try different rogue archetypes or you're overvaluing how good the TGT card quality is for other classes. Oil rogue is clearly still strong so Blizzard probably saw no reason to buff it, so they pushed other archetypes. Just because inventing new archetypes takes a lot longer than throwing mysterious challenger, some secrets, and the best paladin and neutral monsters in a deck, doesn't mean you got shit cards. I truly hope you eat your words when someone willing to be creative and put the effort it comes up with a strong new archetype. Jesus it's like people here think there is some sort of conspiracy by Blizzard to intentionally unbalance the game. Relax people.

Well to be fair, we did get a strong Aggro Rogue but it's still inconsistent and not even close as strong as Huntard. In general we have different archetypes for rogue but nothing is competitive because other classes, simply do it better. I guess you may call it variety of the game but why should mages and paladins have a competitive archetype for almost every playstyle?

Furthermore, the whining is simply because many things (for rogues) could have been better without so much thinking (secrets, epics, mechanics) and without giving them OP cards (I don't even think they have any standalone OP cards tbh). Even when Miracle Rogue was around, the archetype was depending on neutral cards to be OP (Gadgetzan Auctioneer and Leeroy Jenkins). Ofc I agree with it getting nerfed but the class didn't really came back with sth because they had nothing (tempo rogue was nerfed on Alpha if I remember correctly).

I know what you mean about not having clear choices for new rogue decks (much like Mysterious Challenger) but existing cards do not complement with the new ones to make a consistent deck + I find that Blizzard wishes to have one terrible class that they want to fix with each expansion; they had shaman before TGT and themselves said that Rogues will be the new Shaman after TGT (though rogues are still viable imo).

Quote from Crovax998 jump

Quote from DKnG666 jump

Quote from Crovax998 jump

Personally, I would give all the classes secret type spells. I don't think any of the classes that don't have them would become OP with them added. They definitely add an element of surprise to strategies.

Imo a neutral card that dispels secrets would be much better - Kezan is a joke tbh.

Wouldn't that just kill the strategy altogether? I think Kezan is fine since it can throw a monkey wrench into secret players plans, but not kill the strategy completely. I know they have a mass silence, but at least you still have a body after the fact.

Thing is, it was fine when your opponent had an easy time getting out, one, maybe two secrets. The new card for paladins is pulling out close to 5. That means the paladin gets 6/6 worth of stats, draws AND PLAYS 5 cards, all those cards have varying effects you have to play around, and if you can't wipe their board... it's just a nightmare, and you probably lose... The card is just absurdly broken, as such the correct response is to add an ooze like 3/2 w/e that breaks all secrets (AKA flare for all classes). It wouldn't kill the strat, it would improve it. The player would have to decide to play around a card, rather then just drop the 6/6 and laugh as your opponent is unable to do any thing.

I like Rogue. it may have changed but i still like it.


Edwin VanCleef says im right......

LOL! I thought this was going to say:

"Can we take a moment to appreciate how.... Blizzard has provided us with the game that we all enjoy and play?"

How naive of me.

Quote from Trophycase1173 jump

Quote from Stingy_Eyes jump

Quote from Trophycase1173 jump

If there's anything we learned about the rogue class in TGT, it's that it has the whiniest players.

Hey not everyone has a personality of a doormat like you, sometimes you need to call bullshit when you see it.

It's just I get the impression that most of you haven't even bothered to try different rogue archetypes or you're overvaluing how good the TGT card quality is for other classes. Oil rogue is clearly still strong so Blizzard probably saw no reason to buff it, so they pushed other archetypes. Just because inventing new archetypes takes a lot longer than throwing mysterious challenger, some secrets, and the best paladin and neutral monsters in a deck, doesn't mean you got shit cards. I truly hope you eat your words when someone willing to be creative and put the effort it comes up with a strong new archetype. Jesus it's like people here think there is some sort of conspiracy by Blizzard to intentionally unbalance the game. Relax people.

Oh nobody here is saying theres a conspiracy but you. Im pretty sure it wasnt purposely unbalanced, just due to incompetency and lack of understanding of the class.

I piloted rogue to legend post TGT last season to try oil in the new meta. There are no new cards usable competitively. Aggro rogue can use Buccaneer and Argent Horse rider, but its still a terrible archetype. Mill rogue only added refreshment vendor. Oil got nothing. I experimented with beneath the grounds etc, but they suck. You can even see me hyping up that card in some of the old threads here.

People like you are all talk, always saying theres some guy out there that can make new archetypes with some unforseen potential and we arent trying, but i dont see you coming up with anything new. Talk big when you actually can do what you say, not depend on some nonexistant "some guy" to make the deck for you. If not, listen to people more experienced than you, when all of the best rogue players out like Ryzen and Dog there say theres no good TGT cards, there probably isnt because they are the first to try them out, and they spend a heck of a lot more time on this game than you and me.

Quote from Paly_Noob jump

"Rogue is also a class that could really afford to have secrets."

^Exactly^  Who at Blizzard is responsible for the FUBAR flavor-fail of giving Palys secrets and rogues not? Since when are paladins sneaky and have anything to hide? Conversely, of all the 9 classes rogue is the MOST sneaky and they don't get secrets? Really, makes zero sense from a flavor POV..

"I will fight with honour"

> Plays 5 secrets on the same turn.

Quote from Liliana_Vess 

"I will fight with honour"

> Plays 5 secrets on the same turn.

 

I enjoyed this post way more than I should have.

Quote from RushingMonkey jump

Quote from Christonya jump

Thing is, it was fine when your opponent had an easy time getting out, one, maybe two secrets. The new card for paladins is pulling out close to 5. That means the paladin gets 6/6 worth of stats, draws AND PLAYS 5 cards, all those cards have varying effects you have to play around, and if you can't wipe their board... it's just a nightmare, and you probably lose... The card is just absurdly broken, as such the correct response is to add an ooze like 3/2 w/e that breaks all secrets (AKA flare for all classes). It wouldn't kill the strat, it would improve it. The player would have to decide to play around a card, rather then just drop the 6/6 and laugh as your opponent is unable to do any thing.

C'mon are you serious? Kezan is already stupidly powerful enough to counter secrets... I can count on my hand the games I remember Kezan hitting a secret and the guy who played her not winning the game. Yeah she doesn't fully counter Mysterious Challenger, but do you even realize the implications for Hunter and Mage if all classes had a freaking Flare on a stick?!

I for one certainly hope they don't take this "let's print a ridiculous swinging tech card" approach to balance again.

Now you're seeing the problem. By printing such a broken card the only way to now counter it, is to print a card that is equally as stupid, which breaks other classes.

Quote from DKnG666 jump

Mysterious Challenger should be Legendary that would fix the ridiculousness of this card.

It wouldn't really fix it. But it's a start. Even as a legendary it's still 6 mana 6/6 draw and PLAY up to .. 5? 6? cards. How ever many secrets you have in your deck.

Quote from DKnG666 jump

Quote from Christonya jump

Quote from DKnG666 jump

Mysterious Challenger should be Legendary that would fix the ridiculousness of this card.

It wouldn't really fix it. But it's a start. Even as a legendary it's still 6 mana 6/6 draw and PLAY up to .. 5? 6? cards. How ever many secrets you have in your deck.

At least it would happen at most once per game if ever as there would be half the chance it's ever drawn during the game

Frankly it's fine as is because the first Challenger is all that matters.  The second one will only net a couple secrets at most, generally 2.  If it were legendary it would kill the deck since the deck would just be terrible with your lone Challenger sitting in your bottom 15 cards.  

Quote from Trollbert jump

Quote from DKnG666 jump

Quote from Christonya jump

Quote from DKnG666 jump

Mysterious Challenger should be Legendary that would fix the ridiculousness of this card.

It wouldn't really fix it. But it's a start. Even as a legendary it's still 6 mana 6/6 draw and PLAY up to .. 5? 6? cards. How ever many secrets you have in your deck.

At least it would happen at most once per game if ever as there would be half the chance it's ever drawn during the game

Frankly it's fine as is because the first Challenger is all that matters.  The second one will only net a couple secrets at most, generally 2.  If it were legendary it would kill the deck since the deck would just be terrible with your lone Challenger sitting in your bottom 15 cards.  

I don't understand the problem. Decks don't inherently deserve to exist.

Quote from UnderaShiva jump

On top of that

Quote from Liliana_Vess jump

Quote from Paly_Noob jump

"Rogue is also a class that could really afford to have secrets."

^Exactly^  Who at Blizzard is responsible for the FUBAR flavor-fail of giving Palys secrets and rogues not? Since when are paladins sneaky and have anything to hide? Conversely, of all the 9 classes rogue is the MOST sneaky and they don't get secrets? Really, makes zero sense from a flavor POV..

"I will fight with honour"

> Plays 5 secrets on the same turn.

 

Not only should Rogue have secrets/traps, Rogue should be a class with cards that can deal with opponents secrets.

And there are skills on WoW where rogues deal effectivle with secrets/traps... The irony...