You realize though that you took more or equal damage from Leeroy (assuming the reaper wasn't double buffed) so either way, you would have been saved with either.
I'd disagree on it being worse than bear trap. This is a straight up power creep on it. On average the 3 drops would be 3/3 stats if not better, considering that usually higher brackets like 6 have 6 mana 1/1 rackateers or such. This one will technically tend to be better than bear trap since it'll summon a 3/3 most of the time, often enough 3/4 or 4/3, rarely worse and who knows how often better such as a mukla or any of the other 3 mana 5/5s. Also this summons it when your hero's attacked so it'll work a bit differently; a lot more like noble sacrifice just for the hero, so since it'll intercept the attack it makes up for it not having taunt and can be better at times or worse when you need the actual creep and don't mind taking the damage. Overall though in most situations this just seems way better than bear trap to me.
I really like how well this works with Explosive and Freezing Trap. When they go to test with their low value minions, they'll likely die to whatever is pulled by this.
I don't think it's that good, I mean, best case scenario, King Mukla or Injured Blademaster, worst case is Moroes or Blubber Baron, sure, but it won' t have a relly big impact, because mostly, you'll have something like radiant elemental or a hero attack you and the maybe, hopefully, please I beg you RNGesus King mukla won't appear, so you'll end up with something like Pantry spider for instance, which isn't that mindblowing.
I think it's a bit better than most folks have given it credit for. But not by much. Bear Trap is probably strictly better but dependent on your deck I guess this could be alright.
Probably more of an arena card than a constructed one and at least it doesn't summon a fucking Doomsayer. 6/10.
It's a good card, but... the problem is the same as mage: you don't need to play around it any more than you did with Freezing Trap. You will play exactly the same as you would against Freezing Trap, only that the minion actually might survive on board.
For a more controll-ish hunter, Freezing Trap is good, and too many traps are also not as good as people here might think. Only because you have many traps in a hunter-deck doesn't make you win.
This is definitively a high-roller card: can win you the game, or can lose you the game too. Summoning an Injured Blademaster against Priest, congratulation, you might have won the game with this move. But if you summon a blubber baron...
And without protecting minions with this card, in the end this cards can simply do nothing. Yes, preventing an attack from a 1/1 maybe on your face.
But who knows, maybe there's even another interaction with it with the new cards.
I think the viability of this card will depend on whether or not Hunters can afford to play a deck that features this and Venomstrike Trap in the same deck. I've seen a lot of people say this is a worse Noble Sacrifice, but I think the fact that this and Venomstrike exist together are what make it work. If you have this in play vs. an aggressive deck and they think you have Venomstrike Trap up, your board is protected. If you have Venomstrike Trap up and they think you have Wandering Monster up instead, the minion they kill gives you a free trade with Emperor Cobra, and thus swing the board in your favor.
I personally think the RNG involved with which 3-drop is summoned doesn't matter too much in the grade scheme of things. The only situations in which it matters is if the summoned minion survives (an above average outcome) or if a 0-attack minion like Mana Tide Totem takes the hit and dies (pretty awful). Other than that, the RNG involved is mitigated by your other minions on board being able to finish the job.
Having experimenting a lot with Secret Hunter in the previous expensions where Bear Trap was still playable in standard, I was very happy to see this card.
Overall, Secret Hunter is a really good deck with the right tools. With maybe better 1 cost minions and Rexxar, it will give you a really high control deck with good combos against other control decks and certainly very powerfull against miist aggros.
I will definitely at least experiment with this. Hunter has been to be on the way to get back to a powerfull position and I'm expecting this to help.
Secret hunter is one of those archetypes which I did too be just on the edge of being really solid. Hunter has enough tools to support secrets to make them playable, and it's one way to last long enough to play the DK and churn out zombeasts.
Hunter was one of my first golden heroes, but I get bored with what I call my "plain" hunter decks built on cheap minions, beast synergy, and direct attacks against face. It's nice to see other sorts of hunter decks getting some support.
I find freezing trap to be meh in a controlling hunter. Negative CA, when control hunter is already CA starved, along with not actually answering stuff? This has potential, but again, is probably meh. In something like midrange that can use the tempo, sure, but not control. Unless your idea of control involves taking midrange, reducing everything to singletons, and jamming in a Reno.
I think the biggest problem with control hunter, secret hunter, and so forth in particular is the secrets and the way they interact with one another. They overlap, they waste each-other, they're inefficient and weird.
Freeze Trap is a nice early-mid game way to stop a big attack and to force them to replay the minion. But it requires to have SOME degree of control over the board, unlike sap or whatever. And it can completely mess up a play with explosive trap or misdirection.
I think in a lot of ways this secret is a much more proficient bear trap because it has direct synergy with venomstrike and snake trap (your opponent can just play around the Ironfur Grizzly most times).
tomorrow i will finish the list, i will take into consideration what people discussed and tried to convince on some points, which I will note
I think this card needs a bit more discussion
I don't like the state of hunter in this expansion, I can't recall how many useful cards are present, but we will find out about that in a month or so from now
Average results - 4 attack minions - 8 (including Mountainfire Armor) wild 6 Other average results (3/3, 3/2 or 2/4 drops with no meaningful effect worth noting) - 33 (including Shallow Gravedigger, because the outcome is random) wild = 14
Good 2 Cave Hydra (the stats will ensure this minion to survive a trade + beast, so hunter profits from this a lot), Kobold Barbarian
Fairly good 5 Benevolent Djinn (the stats will ensure this minion to survive a trade, the healing is not so important in hunter, but overall it has a positive effect), Dragonslayer (if it survives),Gilded Gargoyle (weak stats, but the coin can help the hunter cheat out a bigger minion), Stoneskin Basilisk (poison + divine shield (ensuring to survive the the first hit) + beast for some synergies, the downside are the stats, so that's why this is here), Toothy Chest (this will most likely survive a minion hit, so you will have a 4/3 or a 4/2 in spare)
So once again I think this card isn't that useful, that impactful to justify the need for its inclusion in a hunter deck. I still take this card as a weak Piloted Shredder - a very swing-y card, but without the initial body. Secondly I still want to stress on the big downside of this card - and that's how it requires, that a minion will aim for the face. And since hunter doesn't have a reliable control-archtype, since most of the decks rely on you having a board, the most common case will be, how the enemy goes into your minions, because they want to prevent you from snowballing. There is no need in attacking the face, especially if you are facing a control deck. The aggro decks normally are fighting for board control, so the priority will be your minions and not the face.
You realize though that you took more or equal damage from Leeroy (assuming the reaper wasn't double buffed) so either way, you would have been saved with either.
I'd disagree on it being worse than bear trap. This is a straight up power creep on it. On average the 3 drops would be 3/3 stats if not better, considering that usually higher brackets like 6 have 6 mana 1/1 rackateers or such. This one will technically tend to be better than bear trap since it'll summon a 3/3 most of the time, often enough 3/4 or 4/3, rarely worse and who knows how often better such as a mukla or any of the other 3 mana 5/5s. Also this summons it when your hero's attacked so it'll work a bit differently; a lot more like noble sacrifice just for the hero, so since it'll intercept the attack it makes up for it not having taunt and can be better at times or worse when you need the actual creep and don't mind taking the damage. Overall though in most situations this just seems way better than bear trap to me.
I really like how well this works with Explosive and Freezing Trap. When they go to test with their low value minions, they'll likely die to whatever is pulled by this.
Actually, this might be in the top 3 hunter traps. Early tempo, late game deck thinning, synergy with existing traps.
Now we just have to see if a Hunter that plays traps is viable.
Greetings traveller!
I don't think it's that good, I mean, best case scenario, King Mukla or Injured Blademaster, worst case is Moroes or Blubber Baron, sure, but it won' t have a relly big impact, because mostly, you'll have something like radiant elemental or a hero attack you and the maybe, hopefully, please I beg you RNGesus King mukla won't appear, so you'll end up with something like Pantry spider for instance, which isn't that mindblowing.
I think it's a bit better than most folks have given it credit for. But not by much. Bear Trap is probably strictly better but dependent on your deck I guess this could be alright.
Probably more of an arena card than a constructed one and at least it doesn't summon a fucking Doomsayer. 6/10.
It's a good card, but... the problem is the same as mage: you don't need to play around it any more than you did with Freezing Trap. You will play exactly the same as you would against Freezing Trap, only that the minion actually might survive on board.
For a more controll-ish hunter, Freezing Trap is good, and too many traps are also not as good as people here might think. Only because you have many traps in a hunter-deck doesn't make you win.
This is definitively a high-roller card: can win you the game, or can lose you the game too. Summoning an Injured Blademaster against Priest, congratulation, you might have won the game with this move. But if you summon a blubber baron...
And without protecting minions with this card, in the end this cards can simply do nothing. Yes, preventing an attack from a 1/1 maybe on your face.
But who knows, maybe there's even another interaction with it with the new cards.
I think the viability of this card will depend on whether or not Hunters can afford to play a deck that features this and Venomstrike Trap in the same deck. I've seen a lot of people say this is a worse Noble Sacrifice, but I think the fact that this and Venomstrike exist together are what make it work. If you have this in play vs. an aggressive deck and they think you have Venomstrike Trap up, your board is protected. If you have Venomstrike Trap up and they think you have Wandering Monster up instead, the minion they kill gives you a free trade with Emperor Cobra, and thus swing the board in your favor.
I personally think the RNG involved with which 3-drop is summoned doesn't matter too much in the grade scheme of things. The only situations in which it matters is if the summoned minion survives (an above average outcome) or if a 0-attack minion like Mana Tide Totem takes the hit and dies (pretty awful). Other than that, the RNG involved is mitigated by your other minions on board being able to finish the job.
just imagine this :
2 mana secret , summons a Devilsaur Egg , opponent kills it , you get a 5 mana 5/5 devilsaur which is a beast :p
I think the biggest problem with control hunter, secret hunter, and so forth in particular is the secrets and the way they interact with one another. They overlap, they waste each-other, they're inefficient and weird.
Freeze Trap is a nice early-mid game way to stop a big attack and to force them to replay the minion. But it requires to have SOME degree of control over the board, unlike sap or whatever. And it can completely mess up a play with explosive trap or misdirection.
I think in a lot of ways this secret is a much more proficient bear trap because it has direct synergy with venomstrike and snake trap (your opponent can just play around the Ironfur Grizzly most times).
Anyway list of 3 drops in wild and in standard.
Good outcomes (good stated minions or some with a good effect) - Arcane Golem, Auctionmaster Beardo, Bearshark, Bloodsail Cultist, Carrion Grub, Cloaked Huntress, Coldwraith, Crypt Lord, Darkshire Councilman, Deadly Fork (meh, you get value out of it), Devilsaur Egg, Drakkari Defender, Eggnapper, Emperor Cobra (if it lives another turn or if it kills a big minion), Fel Orc Soulfiend, Felguard, Frothing Berserker, Giant Wasp (if it lives another turn or if it kills a big minion), Howlfiend (good or devastating, it depends if your hand is empty or you don't care discarding trash), Hyldnir Frostrider, Injured Blademaster, Kabal Talonpriest, King Mukla, Manic Soulcaster, Mindbreaker (but hunter also needs his hero power to bypass taunts), Raging Worgen (if it lives), Rat Pack, Shaku, the Collector (if it lives), Shaky Zipgunner, Tar Creeper, Twilight Elder, Unlicensed Apothecary (if you can afford to take 5-10 damage, aka vs control), Val'kyr Soulclaimer, Vicious Fledgling (only if it lives), Vryghoul Wickerflame Burnbristle = 36 minions
wild - Brann Bronzebeard, Coliseum Manager, Dancing Swords, Dark Cultist, Deathlord, Eydis Darkbane, Fierce Monkey, Fjola Lightbane, Flamewaker, Imp Gang Boss, Mounted Raptor, Ogre Brute, Spellslinger, Spider Tank, Unearthed Raptor = 15 minions
Average results - 4 attack minions - 8 (including Mountainfire Armor)
wild 6
Other average results (3/3, 3/2 or 2/4 drops with no meaningful effect worth noting) - 33 (including Shallow Gravedigger, because the outcome is random)
wild = 14
Bad outcomes - fairly weak stated minions or devastatingly nightmarish ones - Acolyte of Pain (because paying 2 mana to draw a card is BAD, PEOPLE), Addled Grizzly, Alarm-o-Bot, Am'gam Rager, Backstreet Leper, Blubber Baron, Coldlight Oracle, Coldlight Seer, Dalaran Mage, Demolisher (it kinda belongs here), Disciple of C'Thun, Drakkari Enchanter, Edwin VanCleef, Elder Longneck, Flesheating Ghoul, Howling Commander, Humongous Razorleaf, Igneous Elemental (meh, could be considered an average drop), Imp Master, Ironbeak Owl, Ironforge Rifleman, Kabal Courier, Magma Rager, Mana Tide Totem, Mirage Caller, Moroes, Nightbane Templar, Pantry Spider, Plague Scientist, Pterrordax Hatchling, Questing Adventurer, Raid Leader, Razorfen Hunter, Sergeant Sally, Shadow Rager, Silithid Swarmer, Silverback Patriarch, Spawn of N'Zoth (could be bad or good, it depends on the board state), Stitched Tracker, Stonehill Defender, Street Trickster, Tauren Warrior (meh if it lives), Thrallmar Farseer, Twilight Flamecaller, Warsong Commander, Wolfrider = 46 minions
wild - Argent Horserider, Druid of the Flame, Fencing Coach, Flying Machine, Gnomeregan Infantry, Hobgoblin, Ice Rager (but it could be good, if it kills a bigger minion), Iron Sensei, Lil' Exorcist, Shade of Naxxramas, Stoneskin Gargoyle = 11 minions
this was the old list without the minions from the new expansion
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Good 2
Cave Hydra (the stats will ensure this minion to survive a trade + beast, so hunter profits from this a lot), Kobold Barbarian
Fairly good 5
Benevolent Djinn (the stats will ensure this minion to survive a trade, the healing is not so important in hunter, but overall it has a positive effect), Dragonslayer (if it survives),Gilded Gargoyle (weak stats, but the coin can help the hunter cheat out a bigger minion), Stoneskin Basilisk (poison + divine shield (ensuring to survive the the first hit) + beast for some synergies, the downside are the stats, so that's why this is here), Toothy Chest (this will most likely survive a minion hit, so you will have a 4/3 or a 4/2 in spare)
Average 6
Fungal Enchanter, Greedy Sprite (dunno, might even put it in the above average category, almost same reason as Gilded Gargoyle), Lone Champion, Void Ripper,Twilight Acolyte
Fairly bad 1
Boisterous Bard,
Bad 6
Kobold Apprentice, Rummaging Kobold, Sewer Crawler, Shrieking Shroom, Sonya Shadowdancer, Zola the Gorgon
the 3-drops from the new expansion, list here
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So once again I think this card isn't that useful, that impactful to justify the need for its inclusion in a hunter deck. I still take this card as a weak Piloted Shredder - a very swing-y card, but without the initial body. Secondly I still want to stress on the big downside of this card - and that's how it requires, that a minion will aim for the face. And since hunter doesn't have a reliable control-archtype, since most of the decks rely on you having a board, the most common case will be, how the enemy goes into your minions, because they want to prevent you from snowballing. There is no need in attacking the face, especially if you are facing a control deck. The aggro decks normally are fighting for board control, so the priority will be your minions and not the face.