I am playing in Standard and I am so tired of meeting only Rogues. Since the last nerfs, I mostly find rogues on ladder. And initially it was okay, but I am the only one who finds it boring to go up against the same deck / class for something like 10 games in a row? I know that there is going to be a new expansion in two weeks but it is so frustrating to meet something like 40% rogues on ladder. Not to speak of 'It wasnt'me' spammed all over again every game....... Am I just being unlucky or does any one else notice this?
It is a problem, and mainly because of one singular card: secret passage. I'm okay with the face damage, weapon buffs and all the burst, i am not okay with drawing all of your deck by turn 8.
Secret passage should operate like adrenaline rush in alpha. Discard the unused cards at the end of the turn. This is coming from a rogue player, I really hate this card because it is so design limiting. Never getting burn again, never getting back old 2 mana blade storm. Never getting healing or solid removal. Just because of this card.
It is a problem, and mainly because of one singular card: secret passage. I'm okay with the face damage, weapon buffs and all the burst, i am not okay with drawing all of your deck by turn 8.
Secret Passage, as well as its stupid interactions with cards like Nitroboost Poison and Cutting Class, is one of the problems indeed. The other one is Pen Flinger, a highly toxic card that should have been nerfed long ago. I have been playing Pen Flinger in a memeish secret/tempo deck that isn't even good and I have a guilty conscience about it still.
Rogue is losing a lot at rotation so I doubt they’ll do anything about it until after that
Of the current rogue lists, its really only losing Eviscerate (which matters a lot). Pen Flinger is really the only card that I have a problem with.
Would it make sense as a "Spellburst: At Turn End..."? It's still OK as a combo activator but we don't have to deal with the 25 interactions a turn that currently occurs.
Secret passage should operate like adrenaline rush in alpha. Discard the unused cards at the end of the turn. This is coming from a rogue player, I really hate this card because it is so design limiting. Never getting burn again, never getting back old 2 mana blade storm. Never getting healing or solid removal. Just because of this card.
Reminds me of the many, many times I've heard that Rogue would never get any "good" spells because of Preparation, which was nerfed almost 2 years ago during Rise of Shadows. And in those 2 years, few expensive Rogue spells were added, and many of them have a cost reduction mechanic anyway (Candle Breath, Malevolent Strike, Cutting Class). Or how Gadgetzan Auctioneer would need to leave, because it would prevent cheap spells and would be an auto-include in every Rogue deck forever. Haven't seen it in a long time, despite cheap spells, even in in Rogue. And instead of getting HoF'd, it's even in the Core set.
As a "rogue player" you should have heard by now that Rogue isn't supposed to get things like AoE and healing, period. Not because of card X or Y, but because it simply isn't what Rogue is supposed to be about. You might as well enjoy the cheap refill. Nevermind, that you actually got solid removal and burst recently with Nitroboost Poison and Prize Plunderer, the latter being solid specifically because of it.
Anyways, it remains to be seen how "problematic" Rogue is after the rotation. Whirlkick Rogue will disappear, Edwin will disappear, and we were supposed to see a nerf just a few days ago. They haven't said what they'd nerf exactly, but I wouldn't be surprised if Nitroboost is getting axed soon anyway. Stealth Rogue is probably going to stay regardless, since it won't have to replace much, but whether it's going to be strong or not will depend on what other classes get as well.
Yeah it seems like a problem. Aggro decks usually dont have too much refill mechanics in their hands and that is not true for that particular rogue deck right now. They also have acess to board control with Pen Flinger.
If the aggresive deck has access to card draw, removal, kindof board control, good minions, good burst cards and a little of sustain well thats maybe a problem. They are losing a lot too to be fair but if the deck retain the power its the obvius nerf target for the next patch. Personally regardless of the future performance of Rogue i dont belive that a card like Pen Flinger should exist, period. There are too little thing as dangerous as low cost bouncing effects in card games. I dont know why this thing exist in first place like really: who belives that being able to replay a minion with a ping effect without restrictions is a good idea?
I SUSPECT they're nerfing Pen Flinger at rotation, but otherwise I doubt they'll nerf anything from Rogue. Secret Passage isn't the reason they're removing Eviscerate (and Rogue still has Sinister Strike anyway). At 4 cards, Secret Passage is obviously strong. But I dunno if it's broken.
I honestly hope they just turn it into a minion-only minion.
the cards u generate from secret passage should count as part of the "secret passage" space and get shuffled back into your deck at the end of your turn.
Am I less of a bad person if I only play whirlkick rogue? I really only have rogue, hunter, and shaman cards. I don't like the highlander hunter and I don't have cards for meme hunter decks. Shaman is all aggro too unless I want to play a meme deck. And I don't think I'm good enough to get to legend playing meme decks against all of those aggro rogues lol. Maybe I could but it would take forever.
I don't even like to play the aggro rogue anyways. Yea I suppose it's good. But I feel like I win at a higher rate with whirlkick rogue. Maybe I'm bad at the aggro deck or something, but there's so many decks that I just feel like I auto lose to. Token druid, warrior, that new mage deck with spell damage and tons of spells absolutely wrecks the deck and there's tons of those mages on the ladder. I also don't like losing once someone puts up a taunt or does some lifesteal shenanigans like the combo DH deck. I just hate games where I lose due to luck of the draw. That's why I play whirlkick rogue. I like to have that potential to puzzle my way through any matchup and find different ways to win. I feel like whirlkick is a way better deck.
It annoys me to play vs the aggro rogue all the time too, but I can beat it with whirlkick so it's all good.
But still, do I count as an annoying rogue player playing whirlkick? lol
worst of all, once Risky Skipper goes, theres no direct counter to Stealth Aggro Rogue anymore, LUL. Blizzard was thinking ahead with their 150 IQ development team.
I've been playing Pirate Rogue on ladder (for years already) just to get quick legend because i really hate the current state of the game, but the thing is if you facing lots of rogues and you already have those cards i highly recommend trying it out not only it's effective but also quite fun in my opinion at least. They just get obliterated by small tokens and you have about as much burst damage they have with waaaaaaaaaay better tempo swings because it's a board centric deck, so early Prize Plunderer /stealthy bois , buff SSS , Secret Passage into free Parachute Brigand / Dread Corsair / Cutting Class , they just cant keep up at all.
Note: I'm not saying this deck is better by any means, it's an off-meta deck that can deal with the most popular rogue lists (combo included) and some other hard matchups for rogue like token druid for example.
Same basics as you can see but instead of a bunch of spells we have a bunch of pirate tokens, Southsea Deckhand and Dread Corsair makes the mirror match much easier aswell.
So keep that in mind if you wanna counter rogue right now, play for tempo prefebly with lots of tokens, so token druid , Combo Rogue (because of lackeys, jandice etc) and this pirate rogue deck is what i recommend, enjoy.
Basically they play stealth minions to have little /non interact to maximize face damage with nitroboost poison etc, cheating lots of mana and drawing the entire deck with passage, cutting class, swindle. Almost everything is pointed to your face unless you force then to interact with you.
Basically they play stealth minions to have little /non interact to maximize face damage with nitroboost poison etc, cheating lots of mana and drawing the entire deck with passage, cutting class, swindle. Almost everything is pointed to your face unless you force then to interact with you.
even if they make it minions only that not really solves the problem. Multiple divine shields? gone, low HP minions? gone. The problem with the card in my eyes is the fact that they can solve almost any stuff that Rogue cant really dealt well without spending Spells on it. They can draw, tutor, whatever else and get an extra ping for it. The card should only proc at the end of the turn even if that kill the playability of the card.
Biggest problem are the basic/classic cards that increase in power as well in combination with the new cards. Deadly Poison, Eviscerate and Sinister Strike especially. Nitroboost Poison, Deadly Poison and Self-Sharpening Sword are crazy and allow you to deal up to 10 damage to face. Two weeks, just wait two weeks. (they struggle with minion flooding though, Murlocs are good at countering them because the rogues often times trade with their stealth minions and can't keep up with your minion spam)
I am playing in Standard and I am so tired of meeting only Rogues. Since the last nerfs, I mostly find rogues on ladder. And initially it was okay, but I am the only one who finds it boring to go up against the same deck / class for something like 10 games in a row? I know that there is going to be a new expansion in two weeks but it is so frustrating to meet something like 40% rogues on ladder. Not to speak of 'It wasnt'me' spammed all over again every game....... Am I just being unlucky or does any one else notice this?
It is a problem, and mainly because of one singular card: secret passage. I'm okay with the face damage, weapon buffs and all the burst, i am not okay with drawing all of your deck by turn 8.
Secret passage should operate like adrenaline rush in alpha. Discard the unused cards at the end of the turn. This is coming from a rogue player, I really hate this card because it is so design limiting. Never getting burn again, never getting back old 2 mana blade storm. Never getting healing or solid removal. Just because of this card.
such salt much BM.
Secret Passage, as well as its stupid interactions with cards like Nitroboost Poison and Cutting Class, is one of the problems indeed. The other one is Pen Flinger, a highly toxic card that should have been nerfed long ago. I have been playing Pen Flinger in a memeish secret/tempo deck that isn't even good and I have a guilty conscience about it still.
Ceterum censeo classum magi esse delendam.
Rogue is losing a lot at rotation so I doubt they’ll do anything about it until after that
Of the current rogue lists, its really only losing Eviscerate (which matters a lot). Pen Flinger is really the only card that I have a problem with.
Would it make sense as a "Spellburst: At Turn End..."? It's still OK as a combo activator but we don't have to deal with the 25 interactions a turn that currently occurs.
Reminds me of the many, many times I've heard that Rogue would never get any "good" spells because of Preparation, which was nerfed almost 2 years ago during Rise of Shadows. And in those 2 years, few expensive Rogue spells were added, and many of them have a cost reduction mechanic anyway (Candle Breath, Malevolent Strike, Cutting Class). Or how Gadgetzan Auctioneer would need to leave, because it would prevent cheap spells and would be an auto-include in every Rogue deck forever. Haven't seen it in a long time, despite cheap spells, even in in Rogue. And instead of getting HoF'd, it's even in the Core set.
As a "rogue player" you should have heard by now that Rogue isn't supposed to get things like AoE and healing, period. Not because of card X or Y, but because it simply isn't what Rogue is supposed to be about. You might as well enjoy the cheap refill. Nevermind, that you actually got solid removal and burst recently with Nitroboost Poison and Prize Plunderer, the latter being solid specifically because of it.
Anyways, it remains to be seen how "problematic" Rogue is after the rotation. Whirlkick Rogue will disappear, Edwin will disappear, and we were supposed to see a nerf just a few days ago. They haven't said what they'd nerf exactly, but I wouldn't be surprised if Nitroboost is getting axed soon anyway. Stealth Rogue is probably going to stay regardless, since it won't have to replace much, but whether it's going to be strong or not will depend on what other classes get as well.
Yeah it seems like a problem. Aggro decks usually dont have too much refill mechanics in their hands and that is not true for that particular rogue deck right now. They also have acess to board control with Pen Flinger.
If the aggresive deck has access to card draw, removal, kindof board control, good minions, good burst cards and a little of sustain well thats maybe a problem. They are losing a lot too to be fair but if the deck retain the power its the obvius nerf target for the next patch. Personally regardless of the future performance of Rogue i dont belive that a card like Pen Flinger should exist, period. There are too little thing as dangerous as low cost bouncing effects in card games. I dont know why this thing exist in first place like really: who belives that being able to replay a minion with a ping effect without restrictions is a good idea?
I SUSPECT they're nerfing Pen Flinger at rotation, but otherwise I doubt they'll nerf anything from Rogue. Secret Passage isn't the reason they're removing Eviscerate (and Rogue still has Sinister Strike anyway). At 4 cards, Secret Passage is obviously strong. But I dunno if it's broken.
I honestly hope they just turn it into a minion-only minion.
the cards u generate from secret passage should count as part of the "secret passage" space and get shuffled back into your deck at the end of your turn.
Am I less of a bad person if I only play whirlkick rogue? I really only have rogue, hunter, and shaman cards. I don't like the highlander hunter and I don't have cards for meme hunter decks. Shaman is all aggro too unless I want to play a meme deck. And I don't think I'm good enough to get to legend playing meme decks against all of those aggro rogues lol. Maybe I could but it would take forever.
I don't even like to play the aggro rogue anyways. Yea I suppose it's good. But I feel like I win at a higher rate with whirlkick rogue. Maybe I'm bad at the aggro deck or something, but there's so many decks that I just feel like I auto lose to. Token druid, warrior, that new mage deck with spell damage and tons of spells absolutely wrecks the deck and there's tons of those mages on the ladder. I also don't like losing once someone puts up a taunt or does some lifesteal shenanigans like the combo DH deck. I just hate games where I lose due to luck of the draw. That's why I play whirlkick rogue. I like to have that potential to puzzle my way through any matchup and find different ways to win. I feel like whirlkick is a way better deck.
It annoys me to play vs the aggro rogue all the time too, but I can beat it with whirlkick so it's all good.
But still, do I count as an annoying rogue player playing whirlkick? lol
so aggro-rogue is literally only losing 1 card = Evis? thats gonna be gonna be fun seeing pen flinger secret passage over and over...
Play less heartstone. There problem solved. Audacity on some people jesus.
worst of all, once Risky Skipper goes, theres no direct counter to Stealth Aggro Rogue anymore, LUL. Blizzard was thinking ahead with their 150 IQ development team.
I've been playing Pirate Rogue on ladder (for years already) just to get quick legend because i really hate the current state of the game, but the thing is if you facing lots of rogues and you already have those cards i highly recommend trying it out not only it's effective but also quite fun in my opinion at least. They just get obliterated by small tokens and you have about as much burst damage they have with waaaaaaaaaay better tempo swings because it's a board centric deck, so early Prize Plunderer /stealthy bois , buff SSS , Secret Passage into free Parachute Brigand / Dread Corsair / Cutting Class , they just cant keep up at all.
Note: I'm not saying this deck is better by any means, it's an off-meta deck that can deal with the most popular rogue lists (combo included) and some other hard matchups for rogue like token druid for example.
### Pirate
# Class: Rogue
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Phoenix
#
# 2x (1) Bloodsail Flybooter
# 2x (1) Deadly Poison
# 2x (1) Nitroboost Poison
# 2x (1) Prize Plunderer
# 2x (1) Secret Passage
# 2x (1) Southsea Deckhand
# 2x (1) Spymistress
# 2x (2) Eviscerate
# 2x (2) Parachute Brigand
# 2x (2) Skyvateer
# 2x (2) Sneaky Delinquent
# 2x (3) Greyheart Sage
# 2x (3) Self-Sharpening Sword
# 2x (4) Dread Corsair
# 2x (5) Cutting Class
AAECAaIHAA/LA9QF7gaIB7+uA+mwA5u2A7m4A8+5A6rLA4rUA9XUA/fUA/PdA4HkAwA=
Same basics as you can see but instead of a bunch of spells we have a bunch of pirate tokens, Southsea Deckhand and Dread Corsair makes the mirror match much easier aswell.
So keep that in mind if you wanna counter rogue right now, play for tempo prefebly with lots of tokens, so token druid , Combo Rogue (because of lackeys, jandice etc) and this pirate rogue deck is what i recommend, enjoy.
What is the Standard Rogue deck? I just hit Legend on wild with odd rogue and winratio was insane. Wondering if its the same for standard.
sikaleon this is the standard rogue list:
AAECAaIHAA/LA8YFiAfiB4YJubgDz7kDqssDn80DitQD1dQD99QD590D890DgeQDAA==
Basically they play stealth minions to have little /non interact to maximize face damage with nitroboost poison etc, cheating lots of mana and drawing the entire deck with passage, cutting class, swindle. Almost everything is pointed to your face unless you force then to interact with you.
thank you!!!
even if they make it minions only that not really solves the problem. Multiple divine shields? gone, low HP minions? gone. The problem with the card in my eyes is the fact that they can solve almost any stuff that Rogue cant really dealt well without spending Spells on it. They can draw, tutor, whatever else and get an extra ping for it. The card should only proc at the end of the turn even if that kill the playability of the card.
Biggest problem are the basic/classic cards that increase in power as well in combination with the new cards. Deadly Poison, Eviscerate and Sinister Strike especially. Nitroboost Poison, Deadly Poison and Self-Sharpening Sword are crazy and allow you to deal up to 10 damage to face. Two weeks, just wait two weeks. (they struggle with minion flooding though, Murlocs are good at countering them because the rogues often times trade with their stealth minions and can't keep up with your minion spam)