First turn: Your opponent plays Wargear (5/5), then magnetizes it with Zilliax (3/2 rush, taunt, lifesteal etc), resulting in a 8/7 Wargear with all the Zilliax keywords.
You sap the aforementioned minion back to opponent's hand.
Second turn: Opponent plays Mechano-Egg (0/5 with deathrattle: 8/8 mech dragon), and magnetizes it with the Wargear that was sapped the previous turn.
What do you think happens next?
Result A: 5/10 Mechano-Egg with only its deathrattle effect.
Result B: 5/10 Mechano-Egg with all the keywords of Zilliax (rush, taunt, lifesteal, shield) in addition to its original deathrattle effect.
Result C: 8/12 Mechano-Egg with all the keywords of Zilliax (rush, taunt, lifesteal, shield) in addition to its original deathrattle effect.
From what I can tell, it should be result A, since minions returning from battlefield to hand lose their enchantments, right? If not, result C makes the most sense since all the stats and keywords are retained somehow.
But no, it's actually result B! Meaning, the minion does not get the extra stats from Zilliax, but it actually gets the keywords!
Is this a bug or am I missing something here? You can watch this exact scenario happen here , at 24:40
Zones in Hearthstone are defined as areas where cards are hosted: your deck, your hand, in play, and in the graveyard. In Hearthstone, there is a general forward-moving flow through zones. Whenever a card moves forward in that flow (Deck -> Hand, Hand -> Play, Deck -> Play), it retains enchantments. If a card moves backwards in zones (Play -> Hand, Hand -> Deck, Play -> Deck, Play/Hand/Deck -> Graveyard and Graveyard -> Play/Hand/Deck), it loses enchantments.
With this update, card copies will retain enchantments in the following scenarios.
Cards that are resurrected currently do not and will continue not to retain any enchantments, unless specifically stated otherwise.
If you copy a card from a deck to a deck, the copy retains enchantments. (eg. Archbishop Benedictus)
If you copy a card from a hand to a hand, the copy retains enchantments. (eg. Mind Vision)
If you copy a card from play to play, the copy retains enchantments. (eg. Molten Reflection)
If you copy a card from a deck to a hand, the copy retains enchantments. (eg. Thoughtsteal)
If you copy a card from a deck to play, the copy retains enchantments. (eg. Mindgames)
If you copy a card from hand to play, the copy retains enchantments. (eg. Kobold Illusionist)
I can't tell if it is intended or not. It feels absolutely wrong and the least intuitive result.
But gamewise obviously the keywords are treated differently than the stat-buff. Since DK Rexxar, they obviously have a way of adding cards together and making them "permanent" cards (zombeasts) which are not originally in the game but which will be treated as proper cards. I guess the keywords are added to the Wargear card (which makes them kind of permanent) and the stats are just treated as a buff. Sloppy work around and unfortunately just another proof of blizzards inability to regularly make all interactions consistent.
If this is working as intended Sap has lost a lot of its value.
However, Sap is not "copying" cards as changes above state, so all buffs should be lost. It's a necessary weakness to magnetize.
Tl;dr bug or stupid.
Edit;
If a card moves backwards in zones (Play -> Hand, Hand -> Deck, Play -> Deck, Play/Hand/Deck -> Graveyard and Graveyard -> Play/Hand/Deck), it loses enchantments.
It's a bug without a doubt which makes it weird considering that magnetise is a new function and they should have tested out the interaction prior to release.
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It must be a bug, when the player hovers over the cards the keywords aren't shown. Though I hope they fix it the other way around and let your minions keep magnetized buffs in hand.
Actually, when he hovers over the card, the keywords are shown (on the right side of the magnetized egg-card at 25:58). Which is why I assume they incorporate the keywords into the card while the stats are merely a buff.
It must be a bug, when the player hovers over the cards the keywords aren't shown. Though I hope they fix it the other way around and let your minions keep magnetized buffs in hand.
Actually, when he hovers over the card, the keywords are shown (on the right side of the magnetized egg-card at 25:58). Which is why I assume they incorporate the keywords into the card while the stats are merely a buff.
It probably doesn't actually show the keywords when the wargear was in opponent's hand, though. There is no way to know of this interaction/bug without experiencing yourself (don't even get me started on keywords working but extra stats from zilliax getting lost). Pretty sloppy implementation if this is intended.
I think that the minion hit by Sap loses his buffs not when it's returned to hand, but when it returns to the battlefield. By magnetizing it, it doesn't count as a played minion so it keeps its buffs. According to this theory it should be result C, but since it is B, and it is clear that the stat are lowered when the minion returns to hand, it's probably because hearthstone removes the minion's stats when it returns to hand (to avoid interactions with minion having more attack than they sould) and keeps the keywords hidden until the minion is played again, then they disappear. Probably it's not intended, but it was impossible to notice until magnetic was introduced.
Seems like a bug to me. I've had my magnet mechs sapped, and I always end up with just the base card. Makes me always try to go wide against rogue to not get punished.
Zones in Hearthstone are defined as areas where cards are hosted: your deck, your hand, in play, and in the graveyard. In Hearthstone, there is a general forward-moving flow through zones. Whenever a card moves forward in that flow (Deck -> Hand, Hand -> Play, Deck -> Play), it retains enchantments. If a card moves backwards in zones (Play -> Hand, Hand -> Deck, Play -> Deck, Play/Hand/Deck -> Graveyard and Graveyard -> Play/Hand/Deck), it loses enchantments.
With this update, card copies will retain enchantments in the following scenarios.
Cards that are resurrected currently do not and will continue not to retain any enchantments, unless specifically stated otherwise.
If you copy a card from a deck to a deck, the copy retains enchantments. (eg. Archbishop Benedictus)
If you copy a card from a hand to a hand, the copy retains enchantments. (eg. Mind Vision)
If you copy a card from play to play, the copy retains enchantments. (eg. Molten Reflection)
If you copy a card from a deck to a hand, the copy retains enchantments. (eg. Thoughtsteal)
If you copy a card from a deck to play, the copy retains enchantments. (eg. Mindgames)
If you copy a card from hand to play, the copy retains enchantments. (eg. Kobold Illusionist)
It's a bug without a doubt which makes it weird considering that magnetise is a new function and they should have tested out the interaction prior to release.
One would think so, right? Small Indie Company is gettin thrown around too often, but there r situations like this one, where they do deserve it.
Anyway, i assume spell buffs still work as they should, right? This rly should not be an issue with zones, i mean it could be, but not in a sense that it works correctly due to that update, it wouldnt. One could test other Magnetic mechs with keywords, if this is Magnetic problem or Zilliax problem.
More interesting thought ... does the magnetic keyword transfers as well? can non-magnetic mechs that had been magnetized and bounced back now magnetize to other mechs?:o
I can't tell if it is intended or not. It feels absolutely wrong and the least intuitive result.
But gamewise obviously the keywords are treated differently than the stat-buff. Since DK Rexxar, they obviously have a way of adding cards together and making them "permanent" cards (zombeasts) which are not originally in the game but which will be treated as proper cards. I guess the keywords are added to the Wargear card (which makes them kind of permanent) and the stats are just treated as a buff. Sloppy work around and unfortunately just another proof of blizzards inability to regularly make all interactions consistent.
I just saw the video. This looks like it wasn't intended at all. However, you are right, another failure by blizzard to make a cool interaction.
It's a bug without a doubt which makes it weird considering that magnetise is a new function and they should have tested out the interaction prior to release.
One would think so, right? Small Indie Company is gettin thrown around too often, but there r situations like this one, where they do deserve it.
Anyway, i assume spell buffs still work as they should, right? This rly should not be an issue with zones, i mean it could be, but not in a sense that it works correctly due to that update, it wouldnt. One could test other Magnetic mechs with keywords, if this is Magnetic problem or Zilliax problem.
More interesting thought ... does the magnetic keyword transfers as well? can non-magnetic mechs that had been magnetized and bounced back now magnetize to other mechs?:o
I really can't tell if it is a Zilliax issue or a magnetic issue, but I am leaning towards Zilliax having an issue. I play Egg Paladin without Zilliax and I haven't seen any bugs with Wargear or anything... yet.
As to your thought, I doubt that'll be the case because I played against a Rogue who used Sap on my Egg which was magnetized and when i played it again, it didn't have any enchantments. So this looks like a bug with Zilliax and not the Magnetize mechanic.
It's a bug without a doubt which makes it weird considering that magnetise is a new function and they should have tested out the interaction prior to release.
(...)
More interesting thought ... does the magnetic keyword transfers as well? can non-magnetic mechs that had been magnetized and bounced back now magnetize to other mechs?:o
I doubt it because afaik the magnetic keyword doesn’t get transferred in the first place. It disappears if it is used.
I can't tell if it is intended or not. It feels absolutely wrong and the least intuitive result.
But gamewise obviously the keywords are treated differently than the stat-buff. Since DK Rexxar, they obviously have a way of adding cards together and making them "permanent" cards (zombeasts) which are not originally in the game but which will be treated as proper cards. I guess the keywords are added to the Wargear card (which makes them kind of permanent) and the stats are just treated as a buff. Sloppy work around and unfortunately just another proof of blizzards inability to regularly make all interactions consistent.
I just saw the video. This looks like it wasn't intended at all. However, you are right, another failure by blizzard to make a cool interaction.
It's a bug without a doubt which makes it weird considering that magnetise is a new function and they should have tested out the interaction prior to release.
One would think so, right? Small Indie Company is gettin thrown around too often, but there r situations like this one, where they do deserve it.
Anyway, i assume spell buffs still work as they should, right? This rly should not be an issue with zones, i mean it could be, but not in a sense that it works correctly due to that update, it wouldnt. One could test other Magnetic mechs with keywords, if this is Magnetic problem or Zilliax problem.
More interesting thought ... does the magnetic keyword transfers as well? can non-magnetic mechs that had been magnetized and bounced back now magnetize to other mechs?:o
I really can't tell if it is a Zilliax issue or a magnetic issue, but I am leaning towards Zilliax having an issue. I play Egg Paladin without Zilliax and I haven't seen any bugs with Wargear or anything... yet.
As to your thought, I doubt that'll be the case because I played against a Rogue who used Sap on my Egg which was magnetized and when i played it again, it didn't have any enchantments. So this looks like a bug with Zilliax and not the Magnetize mechanic.
Well, wargear won't show in this, right, as it's a stat buff only? You'd need venomizer, bronze gatekeeper, or something like missile launcher, I'd guess, to test.
I think on 1 occasion, I magnetized my egg with Bronze Gatekeeper and it got vanished by a Rogue, think it was yesterday as well. Anyways, if I remember correctly, the egg didn't keep the enchantments when it was returned to my hand. But to be perfectly honest, I'm still a bit confused on this as this shouldn't be how magnetize works.
It's a bug without a doubt which makes it weird considering that magnetise is a new function and they should have tested out the interaction prior to release.
One would think so, right? Small Indie Company is gettin thrown around too often, but there r situations like this one, where they do deserve it.
Anyway, i assume spell buffs still work as they should, right? This rly should not be an issue with zones, i mean it could be, but not in a sense that it works correctly due to that update, it wouldnt. One could test other Magnetic mechs with keywords, if this is Magnetic problem or Zilliax problem.
More interesting thought ... does the magnetic keyword transfers as well? can non-magnetic mechs that had been magnetized and bounced back now magnetize to other mechs?:o
I really can't tell if it is a Zilliax issue or a magnetic issue, but I am leaning towards Zilliax having an issue. I play Egg Paladin without Zilliax and I haven't seen any bugs with Wargear or anything... yet.
As to your thought, I doubt that'll be the case because I played against a Rogue who used Sap on my Egg which was magnetized and when i played it again, it didn't have any enchantments. So this looks like a bug with Zilliax and not the Magnetize mechanic.
Hmm, so i went to test things, but it doesnt seem to "work" when i bounce the minions back myself. Has to be a bug with either Sap and Freezing Trap specifically or for some reason when your opponent bounces it back, or when it is on the enemy turn, that there is some buggy interactions.
First turn: Your opponent plays Wargear (5/5), then magnetizes it with Zilliax (3/2 rush, taunt, lifesteal etc), resulting in a 8/7 Wargear with all the Zilliax keywords.
You sap the aforementioned minion back to opponent's hand.
Second turn: Opponent plays Mechano-Egg (0/5 with deathrattle: 8/8 mech dragon), and magnetizes it with the Wargear that was sapped the previous turn.
What do you think happens next?
Result A: 5/10 Mechano-Egg with only its deathrattle effect.
Result B: 5/10 Mechano-Egg with all the keywords of Zilliax (rush, taunt, lifesteal, shield) in addition to its original deathrattle effect.
Result C: 8/12 Mechano-Egg with all the keywords of Zilliax (rush, taunt, lifesteal, shield) in addition to its original deathrattle effect.
From what I can tell, it should be result A, since minions returning from battlefield to hand lose their enchantments, right? If not, result C makes the most sense since all the stats and keywords are retained somehow.
But no, it's actually result B! Meaning, the minion does not get the extra stats from Zilliax, but it actually gets the keywords!
Is this a bug or am I missing something here? You can watch this exact scenario happen here , at 24:40
This is probably a bug, should be Mechano Egg with +5/+5 stats
--Alfi--
Pretty huge if it's really a bug. You could say it cost the player in video the game.
Zones in Hearthstone are defined as areas where cards are hosted: your deck, your hand, in play, and in the graveyard. In Hearthstone, there is a general forward-moving flow through zones. Whenever a card moves forward in that flow (Deck -> Hand, Hand -> Play, Deck -> Play), it retains enchantments. If a card moves backwards in zones (Play -> Hand, Hand -> Deck, Play -> Deck, Play/Hand/Deck -> Graveyard and Graveyard -> Play/Hand/Deck), it loses enchantments.
With this update, card copies will retain enchantments in the following scenarios.
https://playhearthstone.com/en-us/blog/21965466/developer-insights-12-0-game-mechanics-update
--Alfi--
Isnt it something wtih recent patch changes how Sap, Hand or Deck copy working now? Otherwise I would admit it its a bug
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks
I can't tell if it is intended or not. It feels absolutely wrong and the least intuitive result.
But gamewise obviously the keywords are treated differently than the stat-buff. Since DK Rexxar, they obviously have a way of adding cards together and making them "permanent" cards (zombeasts) which are not originally in the game but which will be treated as proper cards. I guess the keywords are added to the Wargear card (which makes them kind of permanent) and the stats are just treated as a buff. Sloppy work around and unfortunately just another proof of blizzards inability to regularly make all interactions consistent.
If this is working as intended Sap has lost a lot of its value.
However, Sap is not "copying" cards as changes above state, so all buffs should be lost. It's a necessary weakness to magnetize.
Tl;dr bug or stupid.
Edit;
If a card moves backwards in zones (Play -> Hand, Hand -> Deck, Play -> Deck, Play/Hand/Deck -> Graveyard and Graveyard -> Play/Hand/Deck), it loses enchantments.
It's a bug without a doubt which makes it weird considering that magnetise is a new function and they should have tested out the interaction prior to release.
Actually, when he hovers over the card, the keywords are shown (on the right side of the magnetized egg-card at 25:58). Which is why I assume they incorporate the keywords into the card while the stats are merely a buff.
It probably doesn't actually show the keywords when the wargear was in opponent's hand, though. There is no way to know of this interaction/bug without experiencing yourself (don't even get me started on keywords working but extra stats from zilliax getting lost). Pretty sloppy implementation if this is intended.
I think that the minion hit by Sap loses his buffs not when it's returned to hand, but when it returns to the battlefield. By magnetizing it, it doesn't count as a played minion so it keeps its buffs.
According to this theory it should be result C, but since it is B, and it is clear that the stat are lowered when the minion returns to hand, it's probably because hearthstone removes the minion's stats when it returns to hand (to avoid interactions with minion having more attack than they sould) and keeps the keywords hidden until the minion is played again, then they disappear. Probably it's not intended, but it was impossible to notice until magnetic was introduced.
Seems like a bug to me. I've had my magnet mechs sapped, and I always end up with just the base card. Makes me always try to go wide against rogue to not get punished.
Small
Indıe
Company
I created a video demonstrating it from the Zilliax side with freezing trap. Same interaction. It does not show the buffs in your hand.
Video
copy/pasting from weeks old patch notes, not even remotely helpful.
This is a bug. The reason OP is asking is because he has read this already
One would think so, right? Small Indie Company is gettin thrown around too often, but there r situations like this one, where they do deserve it.
Anyway, i assume spell buffs still work as they should, right? This rly should not be an issue with zones, i mean it could be, but not in a sense that it works correctly due to that update, it wouldnt. One could test other Magnetic mechs with keywords, if this is Magnetic problem or Zilliax problem.
More interesting thought ... does the magnetic keyword transfers as well? can non-magnetic mechs that had been magnetized and bounced back now magnetize to other mechs?:o
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I just saw the video. This looks like it wasn't intended at all. However, you are right, another failure by blizzard to make a cool interaction.
I really can't tell if it is a Zilliax issue or a magnetic issue, but I am leaning towards Zilliax having an issue. I play Egg Paladin without Zilliax and I haven't seen any bugs with Wargear or anything... yet.
As to your thought, I doubt that'll be the case because I played against a Rogue who used Sap on my Egg which was magnetized and when i played it again, it didn't have any enchantments. So this looks like a bug with Zilliax and not the Magnetize mechanic.
I doubt it because afaik the magnetic keyword doesn’t get transferred in the first place. It disappears if it is used.
I think on 1 occasion, I magnetized my egg with Bronze Gatekeeper and it got vanished by a Rogue, think it was yesterday as well. Anyways, if I remember correctly, the egg didn't keep the enchantments when it was returned to my hand. But to be perfectly honest, I'm still a bit confused on this as this shouldn't be how magnetize works.
Hmm, so i went to test things, but it doesnt seem to "work" when i bounce the minions back myself. Has to be a bug with either Sap and Freezing Trap specifically or for some reason when your opponent bounces it back, or when it is on the enemy turn, that there is some buggy interactions.
- Click Here To Join Us On Discord! -