I have been playing hearthstone for 7/8 months. And it's always been a game where some decks (may be 3/4) have much more advantages than other. There were Kazakus priest, Jade Druid, Keleseth rogue, After that there were Cubelock, Aggro Paladin, Spiteful Druid. But surprisingly enough nowadays the game has become more balanced (specially after spiteful nerf). Almost all the classes right now have some fun decks. Although i am not sure how long it will last (probably until the next expansion), it's safe to say the meta is very much versatile right now!
I think its pretty balanced now, seems like you can counter every deck. Cubelock was indeed cancer to beat, but fun to play and climb the ladder easily!
I think it's as balanced as it's been in a while. Sure, there's always Tier 1, but I think there's a variety of competitive decks across several classes right now.
In the years I've played the game this has been one of the very rare times that all classes actually have competitive lists that can be laddered with and even the tier 1 lists have horrendous counters so they can't get out of hand.
Sorry dude. As always, plenty of cancer decks all over. Blizzard refuses to fix the real problems and adds more cancer to cancer.
There is so much wrong with this comment, I don't even know where to start.^^ Could I ask you to define "cancer" in all three instances of use as well as what those "real problems" are. :) Also, some actual arguments for your claim would be awesome, otherwise it's kind of difficult to respond to this in any meaningful fashion.
In other words (that might be more comprehensible for you): "Hahahaha, sorry dude, your post is cancer. I can't add my cancer to your cancer, because your cancer hasn't enough cancer in its cancer". - Apologies, that's a potshot I couldn't resist taking. ;)
---
To reply to the actual topic: I do feel that the present situation is a whole lot better than what we had before the last bunch of nerfs and there is a nice variety of reasonably viable and fun decks out there. If it's really perfectly balanced? Eeeeh, I'd say no - there are always at least slight variations in power levels of different decks and archetypes, so it's somewhat difficult to achieve that.
Sorry dude. As always, plenty of cancer decks all over. Blizzard refuses to fix the real problems and adds more cancer to cancer.
Because you lack the ability to provide a constructive, valid argument as to why it's not balanced, we're going to have to assume you're rank 20+ and lose to OTK angry chicken decks. Please type something coherent next time.
Balance and diversity are overrated. The polarization of the meta decks make me not want to play beyond my daily quests. It's not a healthy meta when every deck you can play has a chance to lose turn 0 because you queued into a hard counter.
I actually play ladder just for fun. Ladder hasn't been really fun to me since before Karazhan. That is a strong indication that the meta is balanced.
Vicious Syndicate shows that 5/9 classes have play rates between 8 and 14 %. Since a perfectly balanced game would show each class played at 11.1% rate, that's really good spread for 5 classes. The lowest class, Warrior, is at 5.6% and the highest class, Druid, is at 16.5%. That's not balanced, but we've seen outliers of >20% high and <3% before, so it could be much worse.
Yes, very balanced. Once the clear dominate strategies of decks like even paladin we're taken away a number of viable decks and play styles emerged that hadn't seen much play before. The number of commonly played archetypes increased to about 20. Even Shaman and Odd Paladin currently have the best winrates however it's not a meta where everyone sticks to playing those decks which is a pretty key factor. Enjoy it while it lasts.
I personally can't stand this rock paper scissors meta. It feels like you only make progress if you get lucky and you regress if your unlucky in your matchup for whatever your selected deck is.
actually balanced means that every deck has a fair chance against any other deck and that is and never will never be at HS.
Currently it's the first time since longer that I don't enjoy playing at all. For me it's really frustrating that I play against decks that I have absolutely no chance against if they hit 2 or 3 right cards and on the other hand sight that I have autowins against certain match-ups.
Not at all, Balanced means decks are are roughly a similar power level, it doesn't mean decks has a good chance against every other deck, that is unbalance, as decks need strengths and weaknesses.
At the moment, there are no decks that are at such a high power level compared to the other decks in the game that lead every player to move towards it.
In a balanced game, you see a fairly even distribution of decks, as they are all mostly viable and at a decent power level compared to others.
In an unbalanced game, you see a very limited distribution of decks, as some decks are at a much higher power level compared to others and players flock to those. This usually also means these decks are so above the power level of others, that they can easily overcome their weaknesses and neutralize harder matchups, simply because they are at a much higher power level. On a balanced state, it is actually harder to overcome matchup weaknesses because the power level of the decks is roughly the same. The lack of disparity means it is much harder to overcome weaknesses.
Essentially, you can't just "Power through" weak matchups in most cases.
Both of you are correct, with the negative and positive elements of both.
An unbalanced, but not broken, card game actually provides an interesting option for strategy. The meta crystallizes based on the tier list, with the T1 decks showing up more often than the T2/T3 decks. However, those top decks won't be so powerful that there's no way to counter them. Thus crafty players wiling to study their personal meta can find decks and strategies that give then an advantage over the rest. You can either pick up that T1 deck and master it better than others, resulting in a higher win rate compared to the rest, or you can locate an underused but powerful lower tiered deck tailored with defeating the T1 strategies again resulting in a higher win rate due to your knowledge of the game.
Note 'unbalanced, but not broken'. When the game breaks fully, you end up with a top deck that you CAN'T effectively counter without playing that same deck. I'm not speaking of those times.
A balanced card game effectively turns into a rock/paper/scissors situation. Deck A can beat Deck B but not Deck C, with all three showing up equally. When there's a 30% chance of getting a natural advantage,, 30% chance of a natural disadvantage, and 30% chance of the game being a coin flip, it becomes hard to develop an effective strategy. It does mean you can play whatever you want. It also means that it doesn't matter what you play. Add to that RNG which swings that 60% into a 40% at times and you have a game that feels out of control.
I would argue that Balanced game situations are better for casual play as it means you aren't locked down to 'The meta' or 'The Counter to The meta' and can focus more on just finding enjoyable games. Unbalanced situations, though, are better for the competitive player as it creates either level playing fields that they can outperform in based on capability or puzzles that they can solve.
Of course, Broken game situations suck for everyone.
If I were to put my opinion on what's the best, the dream would probably be a Balanced skill floor and an Unbalanced skill ceiling. Having many decks capable of being picked up and used by average players easily to beat each other, but with a few decks that are weaker when used poorly but the strongest once mastered.
There's a chance that this meta is actually this situation. it's pretty clear it's a Balanced skill floor. however, we only JUST started seeing people compete and test out decks, so we don't really know what the ceiling will look like. If a few of the decks reach the top tier without some new OMGOP deck showing up from left field, we'll have our golden time.
...for about 2-3 weeks before the next expansion :P
It's very balanced, you can't really debate that. The problem is that it's stale. Sure, the classes are pretty even, but the decks are mostly the same as they've been for a year.
It's very balanced, you can't really debate that. The problem is that it's stale. Sure, the classes are pretty even, but the decks are mostly the same as they've been for a year.
That's because Blizzard decided not to power creep this expansion or utterly destroy the old decks, leading the core to remain in past expansions. Instead it powered up other decks and classes so that they would grow to the same level as most of the current decks while nipping the power level of the strongest to match the new level.
The alternative is to make Witchwood more powerful than K&C/KFT. That would ruin the purpose of rotations as we could've just kept to the YuGiOh format and just power creep the old sets to oblivion.
I have been playing hearthstone for 7/8 months. And it's always been a game where some decks (may be 3/4) have much more advantages than other. There were Kazakus priest, Jade Druid, Keleseth rogue, After that there were Cubelock, Aggro Paladin, Spiteful Druid. But surprisingly enough nowadays the game has become more balanced (specially after spiteful nerf). Almost all the classes right now have some fun decks. Although i am not sure how long it will last (probably until the next expansion), it's safe to say the meta is very much versatile right now!
I think its pretty balanced now, seems like you can counter every deck. Cubelock was indeed cancer to beat, but fun to play and climb the ladder easily!
Balanced 😂😂😂 hahahahaaaa
Sorry dude. As always, plenty of cancer decks all over. Blizzard refuses to fix the real problems and adds more cancer to cancer.
I think it's as balanced as it's been in a while. Sure, there's always Tier 1, but I think there's a variety of competitive decks across several classes right now.
I would definitely say it is. Considering each class has multiple decks to be able to play with. This would be the most balanced since Un'Goro launch.
Druid: Maly/Taunt/Togg/Spiteful. Rogue: Miracle/Odd. Shaman: Even/Shudderwock. Warlock: Cube/Even/Zoo. Priest: Combo/Quest/Control. Pally: Odd/Murlocs. Mage: Big Spell/Aggro/Murloc. Warrior: Quest/Rush. Hunter: Recruit/Spell/Midrange.
Insane that all the classes have multiple decks to play. Very fun nowadays.
In the years I've played the game this has been one of the very rare times that all classes actually have competitive lists that can be laddered with and even the tier 1 lists have horrendous counters so they can't get out of hand.
There is so much wrong with this comment, I don't even know where to start.^^ Could I ask you to define "cancer" in all three instances of use as well as what those "real problems" are. :) Also, some actual arguments for your claim would be awesome, otherwise it's kind of difficult to respond to this in any meaningful fashion.
In other words (that might be more comprehensible for you): "Hahahaha, sorry dude, your post is cancer. I can't add my cancer to your cancer, because your cancer hasn't enough cancer in its cancer". - Apologies, that's a potshot I couldn't resist taking. ;)
---
To reply to the actual topic: I do feel that the present situation is a whole lot better than what we had before the last bunch of nerfs and there is a nice variety of reasonably viable and fun decks out there. If it's really perfectly balanced? Eeeeh, I'd say no - there are always at least slight variations in power levels of different decks and archetypes, so it's somewhat difficult to achieve that.
Because you lack the ability to provide a constructive, valid argument as to why it's not balanced, we're going to have to assume you're rank 20+ and lose to OTK angry chicken decks. Please type something coherent next time.
Balance and diversity are overrated. The polarization of the meta decks make me not want to play beyond my daily quests. It's not a healthy meta when every deck you can play has a chance to lose turn 0 because you queued into a hard counter.
Legend with : S65 Freeze Mage, S57 Maly Gonk Druid, S57 "Okay" Shaman, S53 Boom-zooka Hunter, S53 Maly Tog Druid, S52 Wild Tog Druid ft.Blingtron, S50 Quest Rogue, S49 Dead Man's Warrior, S41 Wild Clown Fiesta Druid, S41 Hadronox Jade Druid, S40 Wild OTK Dragon Druid, S35 SMOrc Shaman, S33 Jade Druid, S22 Control Priest, S19 Control Priest
More balanced probably, but as a result nearly all decks are hovering around 50% winrate, which kinda blows really (imo).
Nature is the Day.
Man is the Sun.
Woman is the Moon.
The Stone is the Sky.
The Art is the Way.
I actually play ladder just for fun. Ladder hasn't been really fun to me since before Karazhan. That is a strong indication that the meta is balanced.
Vicious Syndicate shows that 5/9 classes have play rates between 8 and 14 %. Since a perfectly balanced game would show each class played at 11.1% rate, that's really good spread for 5 classes. The lowest class, Warrior, is at 5.6% and the highest class, Druid, is at 16.5%. That's not balanced, but we've seen outliers of >20% high and <3% before, so it could be much worse.
Yes, very balanced. Once the clear dominate strategies of decks like even paladin we're taken away a number of viable decks and play styles emerged that hadn't seen much play before. The number of commonly played archetypes increased to about 20. Even Shaman and Odd Paladin currently have the best winrates however it's not a meta where everyone sticks to playing those decks which is a pretty key factor. Enjoy it while it lasts.
Lol. Least amount of fun since beta. All cancer decks. Rng fest garbage. Clash of clans is more entertaining watching my collectors fill slowly.
#spendnomoremoney
such salt much BM.
I personally can't stand this rock paper scissors meta. It feels like you only make progress if you get lucky and you regress if your unlucky in your matchup for whatever your selected deck is.
Both of you are correct, with the negative and positive elements of both.
An unbalanced, but not broken, card game actually provides an interesting option for strategy. The meta crystallizes based on the tier list, with the T1 decks showing up more often than the T2/T3 decks. However, those top decks won't be so powerful that there's no way to counter them. Thus crafty players wiling to study their personal meta can find decks and strategies that give then an advantage over the rest. You can either pick up that T1 deck and master it better than others, resulting in a higher win rate compared to the rest, or you can locate an underused but powerful lower tiered deck tailored with defeating the T1 strategies again resulting in a higher win rate due to your knowledge of the game.
Note 'unbalanced, but not broken'. When the game breaks fully, you end up with a top deck that you CAN'T effectively counter without playing that same deck. I'm not speaking of those times.
A balanced card game effectively turns into a rock/paper/scissors situation. Deck A can beat Deck B but not Deck C, with all three showing up equally. When there's a 30% chance of getting a natural advantage,, 30% chance of a natural disadvantage, and 30% chance of the game being a coin flip, it becomes hard to develop an effective strategy. It does mean you can play whatever you want. It also means that it doesn't matter what you play. Add to that RNG which swings that 60% into a 40% at times and you have a game that feels out of control.
I would argue that Balanced game situations are better for casual play as it means you aren't locked down to 'The meta' or 'The Counter to The meta' and can focus more on just finding enjoyable games. Unbalanced situations, though, are better for the competitive player as it creates either level playing fields that they can outperform in based on capability or puzzles that they can solve.
Of course, Broken game situations suck for everyone.
If I were to put my opinion on what's the best, the dream would probably be a Balanced skill floor and an Unbalanced skill ceiling. Having many decks capable of being picked up and used by average players easily to beat each other, but with a few decks that are weaker when used poorly but the strongest once mastered.
There's a chance that this meta is actually this situation. it's pretty clear it's a Balanced skill floor. however, we only JUST started seeing people compete and test out decks, so we don't really know what the ceiling will look like. If a few of the decks reach the top tier without some new OMGOP deck showing up from left field, we'll have our golden time.
...for about 2-3 weeks before the next expansion :P
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
It's very balanced, you can't really debate that. The problem is that it's stale. Sure, the classes are pretty even, but the decks are mostly the same as they've been for a year.
That's because Blizzard decided not to power creep this expansion or utterly destroy the old decks, leading the core to remain in past expansions. Instead it powered up other decks and classes so that they would grow to the same level as most of the current decks while nipping the power level of the strongest to match the new level.
The alternative is to make Witchwood more powerful than K&C/KFT. That would ruin the purpose of rotations as we could've just kept to the YuGiOh format and just power creep the old sets to oblivion.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
i agree!
-points to the virtual door-.
Get out.
Yeah, pretty balanced. I don't feel that any deck dominates on the ladder. I still hate playing vs druids though... and priests, definetely priests.