Sorry if some people are offended by the title haha, but I'm pretty much considering everyone below tournament ranks "average Joes", just for the sake of argument here.
When I try to create a deck completely on my own, my creative side is completely flooded with what's worked in the past (ie, "net decks"). I can try to home brew a tempo rogue, but it's been done before. It's very hard (or impossible) to make your own freeze mage (probably not the best example). Midrange hunters and shamans will all turn out very similar (collection permitting, of course). Control warrior will use all the same cards. Aggro decks will use all the same cheap minions, because it is fairly well known which cheap cards are best for aggro, and which cards are simply worse than some other alternatives.
Obviously, I don't claim to be a good deck builder haha, so I'm probably not the best person to start this discussion. I understand how creating decks works better in Magic because there's so many more cards in each deck, whereas here you've only got 30 slots to work with. I guess the counter argument to that is in Magic, about 35-40% of your deck is land anyways. But still. I'm just curious what other people do, to try to truly make their own deck and feel good about it haha.
Also for the sake of argument, I'm trying to talk about competitive ish ladder climbing decks, and not weird meme decks that are just for fun haha. Anyone can make those.
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Twitch name: Anatak15 NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
Sorry if some people are offended by the title haha, but I'm pretty much considering everyone below tournament ranks "average Joes", just for the sake of argument here.
When I try to create a deck completely on my own, my creative side is completely flooded with what's worked in the past (ie, "net decks"). I can try to home brew a tempo rogue, but it's been done before. It's very hard (or impossible) to make your own freeze mage (probably not the best example). Midrange hunters and shamans will all turn out very similar (collection permitting, of course). Control warrior will use all the same cards. Aggro decks will use all the same cheap minions, because it is fairly well known which cheap cards are best for aggro, and which cards are simply worse than some other alternatives.
Obviously, I don't claim to be a good deck builder haha, so I'm probably not the best person to start this discussion. I understand how creating decks works better in Magic because there's so many more cards in each deck, whereas here you've only got 30 slots to work with. I guess the counter argument to that is in Magic, about 35-40% of your deck is land anyways. But still. I'm just curious what other people do, to try to truly make their own deck and feel good about it haha.
Also for the sake of argument, I'm trying to talk about competitive ish ladder climbing decks, and not weird meme decks that are just for fun haha. Anyone can make those.
You can home brew decks, but when it is good enough for ladder climbing, chances are high that someone already came up with it (happened to me with my Spiteful Pala :D). The main reason I guess is that there are players who have waayyyyy more time at their hands than the average Joe ;)
Plus, as you have written, Blizzard pre-defines many archetypes for us with their system of viable cards / synergy cards / expansion fillers.
It's hard to homebrew a deck that's viable in ranked but also is totally original due to pretty much every competitive archetype is pretty well-defined. In that case, I look at the typical 'netdecks' for a specific deck type and think about any possible substitutions or alterations I can make to make it more personable. I prefer unranked because it's a way to play around with more unique decks and fun cards without the stress of laddering...that being said, all of my homebrewed decks aren't exactly competitive.
The issue is really when it comes to fine-tuning it. You're just not going to have the time to swap cards in and out and get any meaningful sample size on how it affects your win rate. You generally going to be stuck with theorycrafting.
If you find a deck that allows you to climb the ladder, great; that's what matters. I just think it's hard for average players (average in terms of time invested, at least) to find real incremental gains in win rate.
Me and my brother play together with this same deck, he has zola though, and we both end up with endless golden legendaries. Once we both got Kel Thuzad and Malganis on board and that 3/5 deathrattle goes back to deck minion and the game lasted 1 hour until game decided for a draw. If you are trying to play a deck for fun, im not joking you, this is what you need
### Fun Deck # Class: Priest # Format: Standard # Year of the Mammoth # # 2x (1) Mind Vision # 2x (1) Mistress of Mixtures # 2x (1) Northshire Cleric # 2x (1) Psionic Probe # 2x (2) Scorp-o-matic # 1x (2) Youthful Brewmaster # 1x (3) Kabal Courier # 1x (3) Mirage Caller # 1x (3) Shallow Gravedigger # 2x (3) Thoughtsteal # 1x (4) Ancient Brewmaster # 2x (4) Eternal Servitude # 1x (4) Kabal Chemist # 2x (5) Devour Mind # 2x (5) Drakonid Operative # 1x (7) Lesser Diamond Spellstone # 2x (8) Free From Amber # 1x (8) Marin the Fox # 1x (8) Shadowreaper Anduin # 1x (9) Alexstrasza # AAECAa0GCroBnwPFBNe7ArC8AsPBAqHOApDTAqTnAuPpAgoeywjyDLq7At7EApnIAsbMAuXMAr3TApvnAgA= # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
Yeah, I can see how creativity does shine more in Wild or at the beginning of new expansions. This next expansion will be the first time I'm around after cards rotate out too, so I'm guessing the meta will be ridiculous for a while.
I kinda wish I was more creative haha. I only know how to make tempo/midrange minion based decks, that don't have much for control or combo potential. The closest thing I have to a homebrew deck is a slowish midrange paladin, that uses Skelemancers and handbuff cards. Maybe if I tried harder and had more time to actually test decks (probably my biggest issue), I could find a way to turn that into something that could thrive past rank 10. It's just frustrating to put effort into making a personal deck work, then running into more efficient and consistent net decks haha.
I think that's really my biggest problem with making my own deck. I just don't have the time, I lose patience too quickly, and I simply have more fun playing decks that I know can be consistent haha.
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Twitch name: Anatak15 NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
I am able to homebrew decks and be competitive at lower ranks (20-10). I never have the time to devote to a Legend push. My challenge (complaint?) is that it is too expensive to experiment with the fun/competitive cards.
I live vicariously through Kibler and some other streamers who try things like Evolve Shaman and Elemental Shaman, but I cannot bring myself to spend hard earned dust on cards like Kalimos. The amount of epics and legendaries needed to try a number of fun decks these days is just too rich for my blood.
Instead, I lower my expectations and remain happy with cheaper decks like Zoolock. Then I maybe can craft the epics and legendaries for another cool deck that I know is going to work. That does not leave me with a bunch of dust to experiment with other strategies.
Everything I said above is how I feel post Patches nerf. Before then, I refused to craft Corridor Creeper and I couldn't afford Cubelock or Raza Priest. I only played to complete quests and get the monthly cardback for a number of months. I did not find HS very fun. Now, I'm back in and enjoying the meta diversity.
It's next to impossible to come up with a new concept which might feature at T1 or T2 after a couple of weeks since the last set release or nerfs. However, I've designed several which I reckon sit at around T3 over the years.
That isn't to say that NOBODY in the world has had the same idea before me - I can usually go on Hearthpwn and find a deck that is within 6 or 8 cards of my own list - but I usually prefer my own 30 (and sometimes borrow an idea from one of these decks).
My current baby is VERYDEATHRATTLE Rogue, which often uses Roll the Bones to draw 5 or more cards and spits out 10/10 Jade Golems alongside other fun stuff. It's hardly a metabreaker but does pretty well up to rank 8 or so and is a blast to play.
I see what you're saying, but I've never watched a streamer actually haha. The world championship this year is the first time I've literally ever watched a live stream.
This site has probably more polluted my mind with netdecks haha. I'm not complaining! Just saying =P
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Twitch name: Anatak15 NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
I don't have any idea if it may work on ladder, I'm trying it in Wild and I ranked from 15 to 10 with some nice win streaks in one afternoon.
does spiteful work well because you have only 2 spells in your deck
Spiteful Summoner is the plan B of a very high-rolling deck, but it works very well as 9-mana drops are quite good for this deck, think about the Dragonhatcher ;)
Ranked meta is just a form of evolution with climbing the ladder the equivalent to survival of the fittest. Pretty much every combination of (playable) cards will have been tried, the successful decks will climb. This makes it unlikely you will make a completely original deck that is competitive. With that being said even slight tweaks to decks or playing style can completely alter a game.
To give you an example, i play secret mage and went online to compare my deck list. There are many variations on the deck but i would say there are about 25 core cards. From grinding and using deck tracker i can tell you around ranked 5 there are 3 main heros used:
Paladin 25%
Mage 28%
Warlock 20%
(Priest 12%)
(the others are pretty negligible)
Of these 3, i have about a 50% chance of winning vs warlock, 60% vs mage and 30% paladin. So i have focused on improving my odds against paladin. I used to run firelands portal and briefly tried pyro blast but so often i found they were just dead cards similar to other 'finisher (7+)' cards used. I would get beat down turn 5-7 by paladin or it wouldnt make much sense playing when i have have aluneth down and other cards that are more cost effective (and card advantage is no objective). Instead i run a volcanic potion, second- rate bruiser and frozen clone and have had found them very effective. I got to rank 2 last month, will try getting legendary this month.
So whilst the deck is 90% typical secret mage 10% is my take on it and this is what makes it my home brew. Of course, the lower rank you are playing at the more deck variations there are and you can get away with more.
This is really one of the key advantages to exploit. Both in deck building and while piloting your deck. If you're familar with meta decks, you can sometimes even play a bit like another archetype and make the opponents waste cards they don't know would be useful against your homebrew threats. I play a lot of wild and the amount of stuff I can get away with by Sylvanas Windrunner + Reincarnate is ridiculous, but it wouldn't work nearly as well if opponents expect it.
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Sorry if some people are offended by the title haha, but I'm pretty much considering everyone below tournament ranks "average Joes", just for the sake of argument here.
When I try to create a deck completely on my own, my creative side is completely flooded with what's worked in the past (ie, "net decks"). I can try to home brew a tempo rogue, but it's been done before. It's very hard (or impossible) to make your own freeze mage (probably not the best example). Midrange hunters and shamans will all turn out very similar (collection permitting, of course). Control warrior will use all the same cards. Aggro decks will use all the same cheap minions, because it is fairly well known which cheap cards are best for aggro, and which cards are simply worse than some other alternatives.
Obviously, I don't claim to be a good deck builder haha, so I'm probably not the best person to start this discussion. I understand how creating decks works better in Magic because there's so many more cards in each deck, whereas here you've only got 30 slots to work with. I guess the counter argument to that is in Magic, about 35-40% of your deck is land anyways. But still. I'm just curious what other people do, to try to truly make their own deck and feel good about it haha.
Also for the sake of argument, I'm trying to talk about competitive ish ladder climbing decks, and not weird meme decks that are just for fun haha. Anyone can make those.
Twitch name: Anatak15
NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
Blizzard is a lie for money lul
You can home brew decks, but when it is good enough for ladder climbing, chances are high that someone already came up with it (happened to me with my Spiteful Pala :D). The main reason I guess is that there are players who have waayyyyy more time at their hands than the average Joe ;)
Plus, as you have written, Blizzard pre-defines many archetypes for us with their system of viable cards / synergy cards / expansion fillers.
It's hard to homebrew a deck that's viable in ranked but also is totally original due to pretty much every competitive archetype is pretty well-defined. In that case, I look at the typical 'netdecks' for a specific deck type and think about any possible substitutions or alterations I can make to make it more personable. I prefer unranked because it's a way to play around with more unique decks and fun cards without the stress of laddering...that being said, all of my homebrewed decks aren't exactly competitive.
In rank 20 all decks are playables
Hunter got a nice winrate in rank 20 so Blizzard no need to give him good cards or Hunter will be op class
The issue is really when it comes to fine-tuning it. You're just not going to have the time to swap cards in and out and get any meaningful sample size on how it affects your win rate. You generally going to be stuck with theorycrafting.
If you find a deck that allows you to climb the ladder, great; that's what matters. I just think it's hard for average players (average in terms of time invested, at least) to find real incremental gains in win rate.
Me and my brother play together with this same deck, he has zola though, and we both end up with endless golden legendaries. Once we both got Kel Thuzad and Malganis on board and that 3/5 deathrattle goes back to deck minion and the game lasted 1 hour until game decided for a draw. If you are trying to play a deck for fun, im not joking you, this is what you need
### Fun Deck
# Class: Priest
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Mammoth
#
# 2x (1) Mind Vision
# 2x (1) Mistress of Mixtures
# 2x (1) Northshire Cleric
# 2x (1) Psionic Probe
# 2x (2) Scorp-o-matic
# 1x (2) Youthful Brewmaster
# 1x (3) Kabal Courier
# 1x (3) Mirage Caller
# 1x (3) Shallow Gravedigger
# 2x (3) Thoughtsteal
# 1x (4) Ancient Brewmaster
# 2x (4) Eternal Servitude
# 1x (4) Kabal Chemist
# 2x (5) Devour Mind
# 2x (5) Drakonid Operative
# 1x (7) Lesser Diamond Spellstone
# 2x (8) Free From Amber
# 1x (8) Marin the Fox
# 1x (8) Shadowreaper Anduin
# 1x (9) Alexstrasza
#
AAECAa0GCroBnwPFBNe7ArC8AsPBAqHOApDTAqTnAuPpAgoeywjyDLq7At7EApnIAsbMAuXMAr3TApvnAgA=
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
Blizzard is a lie for money lul
Yeah, I can see how creativity does shine more in Wild or at the beginning of new expansions. This next expansion will be the first time I'm around after cards rotate out too, so I'm guessing the meta will be ridiculous for a while.
I kinda wish I was more creative haha. I only know how to make tempo/midrange minion based decks, that don't have much for control or combo potential. The closest thing I have to a homebrew deck is a slowish midrange paladin, that uses Skelemancers and handbuff cards. Maybe if I tried harder and had more time to actually test decks (probably my biggest issue), I could find a way to turn that into something that could thrive past rank 10. It's just frustrating to put effort into making a personal deck work, then running into more efficient and consistent net decks haha.
I think that's really my biggest problem with making my own deck. I just don't have the time, I lose patience too quickly, and I simply have more fun playing decks that I know can be consistent haha.
Twitch name: Anatak15
NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
I consider myself an average Joe, and I tried to home brew something different, check it out:
I don't have any idea if it may work on ladder, I'm trying it in Wild and I ranked from 15 to 10 with some nice win streaks in one afternoon.
I currently have a go at the ladder with my homebrew aggro/ midrange kele'seth Pala including Zola.
I went from 10-6 but couldn't cross to 5 so far.
Good thing is I didn't find any similar builds..so my challenge is to hit 5 exclusively using this homebrew of mine.
I am able to homebrew decks and be competitive at lower ranks (20-10). I never have the time to devote to a Legend push. My challenge (complaint?) is that it is too expensive to experiment with the fun/competitive cards.
I live vicariously through Kibler and some other streamers who try things like Evolve Shaman and Elemental Shaman, but I cannot bring myself to spend hard earned dust on cards like Kalimos. The amount of epics and legendaries needed to try a number of fun decks these days is just too rich for my blood.
Instead, I lower my expectations and remain happy with cheaper decks like Zoolock. Then I maybe can craft the epics and legendaries for another cool deck that I know is going to work. That does not leave me with a bunch of dust to experiment with other strategies.
Everything I said above is how I feel post Patches nerf. Before then, I refused to craft Corridor Creeper and I couldn't afford Cubelock or Raza Priest. I only played to complete quests and get the monthly cardback for a number of months. I did not find HS very fun. Now, I'm back in and enjoying the meta diversity.
It's next to impossible to come up with a new concept which might feature at T1 or T2 after a couple of weeks since the last set release or nerfs. However, I've designed several which I reckon sit at around T3 over the years.
That isn't to say that NOBODY in the world has had the same idea before me - I can usually go on Hearthpwn and find a deck that is within 6 or 8 cards of my own list - but I usually prefer my own 30 (and sometimes borrow an idea from one of these decks).
My current baby is VERYDEATHRATTLE Rogue, which often uses Roll the Bones to draw 5 or more cards and spits out 10/10 Jade Golems alongside other fun stuff. It's hardly a metabreaker but does pretty well up to rank 8 or so and is a blast to play.
I see what you're saying, but I've never watched a streamer actually haha. The world championship this year is the first time I've literally ever watched a live stream.
This site has probably more polluted my mind with netdecks haha. I'm not complaining! Just saying =P
Twitch name: Anatak15
NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
I just reply because i love the expression "Average Joe Player" ehehe
About the topic... i guess with some experience, everyone can make a nice deck to climb some ranks:
1) You will know your deck better than everyone
2) You will feel free to change/adapte to current micro meta
3) Nobody will expect a homebrew deck
Best Regards
Sylvanas Windrunner
I have no time for games.
I just hit 5 with my homebrew kele'seth corpstaker dinosize zola paladin :D
Edit: Put the deck in my signature
Ranked meta is just a form of evolution with climbing the ladder the equivalent to survival of the fittest. Pretty much every combination of (playable) cards will have been tried, the successful decks will climb. This makes it unlikely you will make a completely original deck that is competitive. With that being said even slight tweaks to decks or playing style can completely alter a game.
To give you an example, i play secret mage and went online to compare my deck list. There are many variations on the deck but i would say there are about 25 core cards. From grinding and using deck tracker i can tell you around ranked 5 there are 3 main heros used:
Paladin 25%
Mage 28%
Warlock 20%
(Priest 12%)
(the others are pretty negligible)
Of these 3, i have about a 50% chance of winning vs warlock, 60% vs mage and 30% paladin. So i have focused on improving my odds against paladin. I used to run firelands portal and briefly tried pyro blast but so often i found they were just dead cards similar to other 'finisher (7+)' cards used. I would get beat down turn 5-7 by paladin or it wouldnt make much sense playing when i have have aluneth down and other cards that are more cost effective (and card advantage is no objective). Instead i run a volcanic potion, second- rate bruiser and frozen clone and have had found them very effective. I got to rank 2 last month, will try getting legendary this month.
So whilst the deck is 90% typical secret mage 10% is my take on it and this is what makes it my home brew. Of course, the lower rank you are playing at the more deck variations there are and you can get away with more.