Hopefully, with another title that asked us to make a card for a deck archetype we can show we're better than Pepe. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case so far. From what I've read, even the people taking the time to read here don't seem to care about it. We can see this with the praise given to Interview with Nat. This is not a mill card. No mill deck would put a 9-Cost card in that draws their opponent 0.5 cards and anti-synergizes with Vanish. Daring Reporters are not good, because Mill needs to be able to balance their whole board back to their hand when they need to, and they would lose their buffs for this. Interview with Nat is an OP card. It's straight up 10 Cost worth of cards for 9-mana, and the cards work together on top of that. But it's not a card for Mill. It's a card for it's own Combo deck. We need to show we have enough discernment that we don't pick the 1 card in here that doesn't fit in Mill as the winner of the Mill competition. Come on people.
On top of that, the card makes zero sense lorewise. I see you guys are easily impressed, flavor-wise. I mean, it was really clever to make a card that summons two Daring Reporters and call it in an interview. I get that. But why the hell are they interviewing Nat, the Darkfisher, of all people in Hearthstone? It doesn't make any sense. I mean, it's clearly so it would fit with this specific competition theme that some random person like that was chosen. Plus, what does this have to do with Rogue? Nothing. This isn't a Rogue card, it isn't a Mill card.
May me copy the restrictions of the competition for you:
Your card must thin your opponent's deck, such as by forcing them to draw from it (Example: Naturalize) or by pulling cards directly from it (Example: Deathlord).
Alternatively, your card may instead benefit from your opponent having more cards in their hand, something that occurs quite often in Mill decks in Hearthstone. This could be more than a specific number (Example: Goblin Sapper) or a large number of cards in general (Example: Clockwork Giant).
Does it state that I must make something that suits a mill deck? No.
And btw, I asked in the discussion thread whether my card meets the requirements this week. Asylum said yes.
I think you misunderstood him/her (sorry Nurgling IDK your gender XD). He/she's saying that your card isn't a card for Mill decks and thus goes against the 'spirit' of the week, using Pepe and the Beast Druid week as an example. He/she's also saying that your card is OP, and has certain thematic problems. At no point did he/she say that your card didn't follow the rules.
Honestly, I think he/she has a point.
Misunderstanding between Nurgling and me happens quite often...
It's interesting that when I posted the card at reddit, people told me it's underpowered and would see no play, and while here in this post, every comment on the card seems to criticise it for been OP.
Hopefully, with another title that asked us to make a card for a deck archetype we can show we're better than Pepe. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case so far. From what I've read, even the people taking the time to read here don't seem to care about it. We can see this with the praise given to Interview with Nat. This is not a mill card. No mill deck would put a 9-Cost card in that draws their opponent 0.5 cards and anti-synergizes with Vanish. Daring Reporters are not good, because Mill needs to be able to balance their whole board back to their hand when they need to, and they would lose their buffs for this. Interview with Nat is an OP card. It's straight up 10 Cost worth of cards for 9-mana, and the cards work together on top of that. But it's not a card for Mill. It's a card for it's own Combo deck. We need to show we have enough discernment that we don't pick the 1 card in here that doesn't fit in Mill as the winner of the Mill competition. Come on people.
On top of that, the card makes zero sense lorewise. I see you guys are easily impressed, flavor-wise. I mean, it was really clever to make a card that summons two Daring Reporters and call it in an interview. I get that. But why the hell are they interviewing Nat, the Darkfisher, of all people in Hearthstone? It doesn't make any sense. I mean, it's clearly so it would fit with this specific competition theme that some random person like that was chosen. Plus, what does this have to do with Rogue? Nothing. This isn't a Rogue card, it isn't a Mill card.
May me copy the restrictions of the competition for you:
Your card must thin your opponent's deck, such as by forcing them to draw from it (Example: Naturalize) or by pulling cards directly from it (Example: Deathlord).
Alternatively, your card may instead benefit from your opponent having more cards in their hand, something that occurs quite often in Mill decks in Hearthstone. This could be more than a specific number (Example: Goblin Sapper) or a large number of cards in general (Example: Clockwork Giant).
Does it state that I must make something that suits a mill deck? No.
And btw, I asked in the discussion thread whether my card meets the requirements this week. Asylum said yes.
I think you misunderstood him/her (sorry Nurgling IDK your gender XD). He/she's saying that your card isn't a card for Mill decks and thus goes against the 'spirit' of the week, using Pepe and the Beast Druid week as an example. He/she's also saying that your card is OP, and has certain thematic problems. At no point did he/she say that your card didn't follow the rules.
Honestly, I think he/she has a point.
Misunderstanding between Nurgling and me happens quite often...
It's interesting that when I posted the card at reddit, people told me it's underpowered and would see no play, and while here in this post, every comment on the card seems to criticise it for been OP.
I personally think that it's not as OP as people seem to suggest. I think the best comparison for this card is Call of the Wild, and that's only played at all because Huffer has charge so it can have some immediate impact, as well as Misha having taunt so it can block some damage. IMO it's actually a balanced card. Takes up your entire turn, and doesn't have an immediate impact beyond summoning some stuff which can then be cleared by AOE. As we know, big stuff that doesn't immediately do something when you play it is hardly ever run.
But I agree with Nurgling's other criticisms. I do find the flavour nice, though.
Hopefully, with another title that asked us to make a card for a deck archetype we can show we're better than Pepe. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case so far. From what I've read, even the people taking the time to read here don't seem to care about it. We can see this with the praise given to Interview with Nat. This is not a mill card. No mill deck would put a 9-Cost card in that draws their opponent 0.5 cards and anti-synergizes with Vanish. Daring Reporters are not good, because Mill needs to be able to balance their whole board back to their hand when they need to, and they would lose their buffs for this. Interview with Nat is an OP card. It's straight up 10 Cost worth of cards for 9-mana, and the cards work together on top of that. But it's not a card for Mill. It's a card for it's own Combo deck. We need to show we have enough discernment that we don't pick the 1 card in here that doesn't fit in Mill as the winner of the Mill competition. Come on people.
On top of that, the card makes zero sense lorewise. I see you guys are easily impressed, flavor-wise. I mean, it was really clever to make a card that summons two Daring Reporters and call it in an interview. I get that. But why the hell are they interviewing Nat, the Darkfisher, of all people in Hearthstone? It doesn't make any sense. I mean, it's clearly so it would fit with this specific competition theme that some random person like that was chosen. Plus, what does this have to do with Rogue? Nothing. This isn't a Rogue card, it isn't a Mill card.
May me copy the restrictions of the competition for you:
Your card must thin your opponent's deck, such as by forcing them to draw from it (Example: Naturalize) or by pulling cards directly from it (Example: Deathlord).
Alternatively, your card may instead benefit from your opponent having more cards in their hand, something that occurs quite often in Mill decks in Hearthstone. This could be more than a specific number (Example: Goblin Sapper) or a large number of cards in general (Example: Clockwork Giant).
Does it state that I must make something that suits a mill deck? No.
And btw, I asked in the discussion thread whether my card meets the requirements this week. Asylum said yes.
I think you misunderstood him/her (sorry Nurgling IDK your gender XD). He/she's saying that your card isn't a card for Mill decks and thus goes against the 'spirit' of the week, using Pepe and the Beast Druid week as an example. He/she's also saying that your card is OP, and has certain thematic problems. At no point did he/she say that your card didn't follow the rules.
Honestly, I think he/she has a point.
Misunderstanding between Nurgling and me happens quite often...
It's interesting that when I posted the card at reddit, people told me it's underpowered and would see no play, and while here in this post, every comment on the card seems to criticise it for been OP.
I would think this is merely an argument of preference at this point.
Some of the arguments are fine, sure. Maybe it's a little undercosted. Maybe it has anti-synergy with Vanish. But when you go into lorewise, now that's just full on preference. You can't disqualify a card just because you don't think it fits the lore. Ragnaros Lightlord doesn't fit the lore and he's a card that exists. Hearthstone likes to poke fun, and this card is the sort of humor the HS team likes.
I think it would've been better if you only summoned one Reporter instead of two, or a 1/1 copy of the Reporter, or whatever to justify reducing the cost just a tiny bit. A mill Rogue's most reliable win condition is surviving long enough to the Coldlight combo. A big board of threats could be another win condition, but personally, I'm not convinced. Point is, If you're going to dismiss Interview With Nat, I would dismiss the design, the mechanics, the balance of the card, not how it doesn't follow in the spirit of the competition.
If you want a world where this card would be disqualified, it would be a world where the WCDC has ultra strict rules where going an inch beyond what is "expected" means your submission is unacceptable. Even though I didn't vote for it for the reasons explained above, it did make me go "lol, that's pretty creative. There's an inherent little story within just a card" on flavor alone, and in a world with a strict WCDC, you wouldn't get to see cards like that.
EDIT: To add to your statement about people on reddit, I would judge it like this: "it's OP in terms of value, but in the usual iteration of Mill Rogue, no one's going to play it because it's so expensive and doesn't contribute much to the win condition."
Hopefully, with another title that asked us to make a card for a deck archetype we can show we're better than Pepe. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case so far. From what I've read, even the people taking the time to read here don't seem to care about it. We can see this with the praise given to Interview with Nat. This is not a mill card. No mill deck would put a 9-Cost card in that draws their opponent 0.5 cards and anti-synergizes with Vanish. Daring Reporters are not good, because Mill needs to be able to balance their whole board back to their hand when they need to, and they would lose their buffs for this. Interview with Nat is an OP card. It's straight up 10 Cost worth of cards for 9-mana, and the cards work together on top of that. But it's not a card for Mill. It's a card for it's own Combo deck. We need to show we have enough discernment that we don't pick the 1 card in here that doesn't fit in Mill as the winner of the Mill competition. Come on people.
On top of that, the card makes zero sense lorewise. I see you guys are easily impressed, flavor-wise. I mean, it was really clever to make a card that summons two Daring Reporters and call it in an interview. I get that. But why the hell are they interviewing Nat, the Darkfisher, of all people in Hearthstone? It doesn't make any sense. I mean, it's clearly so it would fit with this specific competition theme that some random person like that was chosen. Plus, what does this have to do with Rogue? Nothing. This isn't a Rogue card, it isn't a Mill card.
May me copy the restrictions of the competition for you:
Your card must thin your opponent's deck, such as by forcing them to draw from it (Example: Naturalize) or by pulling cards directly from it (Example: Deathlord).
Alternatively, your card may instead benefit from your opponent having more cards in their hand, something that occurs quite often in Mill decks in Hearthstone. This could be more than a specific number (Example: Goblin Sapper) or a large number of cards in general (Example: Clockwork Giant).
Does it state that I must make something that suits a mill deck? No.
And btw, I asked in the discussion thread whether my card meets the requirements this week. Asylum said yes.
I think you misunderstood him/her (sorry Nurgling IDK your gender XD). He/she's saying that your card isn't a card for Mill decks and thus goes against the 'spirit' of the week, using Pepe and the Beast Druid week as an example. He/she's also saying that your card is OP, and has certain thematic problems. At no point did he/she say that your card didn't follow the rules.
Honestly, I think he/she has a point.
Misunderstanding between Nurgling and me happens quite often...
It's interesting that when I posted the card at reddit, people told me it's underpowered and would see no play, and while here in this post, every comment on the card seems to criticise it for been OP.
There's a very powerful combo with Preparation+Interview with Nat+Conceal on turn 7 (6 with Coin), followed by 2 Coldlight Oracles (or Coldlight+bounce and recast) next turn. That's 16 or 18 damage from the Daring Reporters depending on whether Nat procs or not. That's not good on a card that's already summoning more mana worth of cards than it costs.
Coldlight Operative could’ve been good, but the statline is too weak. Your opponent drawing cards is a drawback. He couldn’ve been a 3/4 or at least 3/3. 2/2 is abyssmal. You can use the mill argument because 1) It still should be a drawback, and 2) No one’s heard of Mill Priest.
Acolyte of Wisdom is a deceptively powerful addition to any mill deck (since a 3-mana 7 health minion is really difficult to remove).
Backhand is excellent removal in the right deck. Great work.
Lotus Turtlerider’s edge for me is that it applies to two of the most common mill decks: Rogue and Druid. I’m surprised no one else thought to make a Lotus card simply due to this fact.
Back-alley Deal is mine so I won’t toot my own horn too much, but I just like having a second Coldlight effect with that added utility of making expensive cards you wouldn’t otherwise play cheaper. Rogue is the most reliable mill class after all.
Speaking of mill Rogue, Beneath the Vault seems excellent, with one minor flaw. A mill deck wants to burn cards, not simply add them to your hand. You’re very likely to just burn Greed and instead of destroying your opponent’s deck, you’re just giving your opponent 3 more cards.
Just to clarify, Discover means you get the card, so the Priest steals a copy of the card. This means both players get a card, and they both know which card it is. Essentially, it's a hybrid between Coldlight Oracle and Drakonid Operative. I'm actually surprised at how many people misinterpreted this. If it just gave the opponent a card, it would read: [Look at three random cards in your opponent's deck. Make your opponent draw one.].
I don't have time this week to do a full review of the cards, but I will say my favourites are Back-alley Deal, Backhand, Grinning Trickster and Acolyte of Wisom.
I think that each of them is interesting, fits well in Hearthstone and really matches the theme this week of creating a card for Mill decks. Additionally, they're for the most part well-balanced, I think.
Honourable mention to An Interview With Nat, for being a card that's clever thematically but sort of falls apart when you consider that it wouldn't be used as a Mill tool, but as a combo card with Conceal.
Oh, and my own card, I like that one =P Lotus Turtlerider was designed with Mill Druid in mind mainly, considering how Jade Idol can help prevent fatigue and works so well with it, but it was also created as a patch for one of Jade decks main weaknesses, being running out of steam after you've dumped your early-game Jade cards.
Hopefully, with another title that asked us to make a card for a deck archetype we can show we're better than Pepe. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case so far. From what I've read, even the people taking the time to read here don't seem to care about it. We can see this with the praise given to Interview with Nat. This is not a mill card. No mill deck would put a 9-Cost card in that draws their opponent 0.5 cards and anti-synergizes with Vanish. Daring Reporters are not good, because Mill needs to be able to balance their whole board back to their hand when they need to, and they would lose their buffs for this. Interview with Nat is an OP card. It's straight up 10 Cost worth of cards for 9-mana, and the cards work together on top of that. But it's not a card for Mill. It's a card for it's own Combo deck. We need to show we have enough discernment that we don't pick the 1 card in here that doesn't fit in Mill as the winner of the Mill competition. Come on people.
On top of that, the card makes zero sense lorewise. I see you guys are easily impressed, flavor-wise. I mean, it was really clever to make a card that summons two Daring Reporters and call it in an interview. I get that. But why the hell are they interviewing Nat, the Darkfisher, of all people in Hearthstone? It doesn't make any sense. I mean, it's clearly so it would fit with this specific competition theme that some random person like that was chosen. Plus, what does this have to do with Rogue? Nothing. This isn't a Rogue card, it isn't a Mill card.
May me copy the restrictions of the competition for you:
Your card must thin your opponent's deck, such as by forcing them to draw from it (Example: Naturalize) or by pulling cards directly from it (Example: Deathlord).
Alternatively, your card may instead benefit from your opponent having more cards in their hand, something that occurs quite often in Mill decks in Hearthstone. This could be more than a specific number (Example: Goblin Sapper) or a large number of cards in general (Example: Clockwork Giant).
Does it state that I must make something that suits a mill deck? No.
And btw, I asked in the discussion thread whether my card meets the requirements this week. Asylum said yes.
I think you misunderstood him/her (sorry Nurgling IDK your gender XD). He/she's saying that your card isn't a card for Mill decks and thus goes against the 'spirit' of the week, using Pepe and the Beast Druid week as an example. He/she's also saying that your card is OP, and has certain thematic problems. At no point did he/she say that your card didn't follow the rules.
Honestly, I think he/she has a point.
Misunderstanding between Nurgling and me happens quite often...
It's interesting that when I posted the card at reddit, people told me it's underpowered and would see no play, and while here in this post, every comment on the card seems to criticise it for been OP.
There's a very powerful combo with Preparation+Interview with Nat+Conceal on turn 7 (6 with Coin), followed by 2 Coldlight Oracles (or Coldlight+bounce and recast) next turn. That's 16 or 18 damage from the Daring Reporters depending on whether Nat procs or not. That's not good on a card that's already summoning more mana worth of cards than it costs.
The problem is, that they don't have Charge and no relevant effect besides their stats, so even with Preparation its still a bad card and would never see play in any serious deck. Your combo is also unrealistic to pull off, since it needs so many cards and the right setup on the board (preferably an empty board) to work, otherwise cards like Giant Sand Worm, Blood of The Ancient One, etc would be really powerful, but they just aren't.
Giant Sand Worm is just a board clear, so it's not an example of a combo people would use to win the game. Blood of The Ancient One is also a 3-turn combo, and you can't use Preparation to get it out early, so it also isn't a great example. And if you don't have both your Conceals, your opponent can end the combo with a single removal. Plus, you would need both Bloods in your hand, but you only need 1 of 2 Interviews for this combo, and just 1 Conceal. Plus, since you can use Brewmaster or Shadowstep, you don't need to draw both Coldlights, which makes this combo easier to pull off.
So, in conclusion, you haven't come up with an example that is comparable to the combo we're talking about.
With regards to the question of the power level of An Interview With Nat, I think there's an important question that needs to be asked:
Does a card need to be "good" to fit this theme?
I think that the answer is no, and I think that for several reasons:
1) The theme creator themselves never said this week's goal was to elevate, push, advance, or make more viable mill strategies. The way that they originally posited this theme to us was, and I quote:
Theme: Time to celebrate those who would outlast and endure in their battles with their enemies. To "mill" is to force someone to draw through their deck faster than normal so they start taking fatigue damage. This strategy also tends to fill up an opponent's hand and burn their cards.
I see "celebrate" and that's pretty much it. The theme can just be to make mill cards, without actually needing to make mill strategies significantly better. Granted, this is from the private message between us and the theme creator, so I can certainly see how folks might have assumed making mill better was the goal, but I don't think we ever actually said that.
2) There are plenty of real, existing mill cards that don't see play even in mill decks because they're not good enough. But just because they're not good enough to be used doesn't mean we don't agree that they're mill cards. Nat, the Darkfisher himself is a great example. He is pretty unarguably a mill card. He is also not good enough to make it into most mill decks.
3) Given that a lot of people dislike mill strategies, including the developers themselves who openly stated it's not one they want to make viable, making a mill card that isn't great is arguably both more appealing and realistic than making one that is.
With regards to the question of the power level of An Interview With Nat, I think there's an important question that needs to be asked:
Does a card need to be "good" to fit this theme?
I think that the answer is no, and I think that for several reasons:
1) The theme creator themselves never said this week's goal was to elevate, push, advance, or make more viable mill strategies. The way that they originally posited this theme to us was, and I quote:
Theme: Time to celebrate those who would outlast and endure in their battles with their enemies. To "mill" is to force someone to draw through their deck faster than normal so they start taking fatigue damage. This strategy also tends to fill up an opponent's hand and burn their cards.
I see "celebrate" and that's pretty much it. The theme can just be to make mill cards, without actually needing to make mill strategies significantly better. Granted, this is from the private message between us and the theme creator, so I can certainly see how folks might have assumed making mill better was the goal, but I don't think we ever actually said that.
2) There are plenty of real, existing mill cards that don't see play even in mill decks because they're not good enough. But just because they're not good enough to be used doesn't mean we don't agree that they're mill cards. Nat, the Darkfisher himself is a great example. He is pretty unarguably a mill card. He is also not good enough to make it into most mill decks.
3) Given that a lot of people dislike mill strategies, including the developers themselves who openly stated it's not one they want to make viable, making a mill card that isn't great is arguably both more appealing and realistic than making one that is.
Your posts on the first page of the Discussion Thread very strongly implied that the theme this week was to make cards that would be used in Mill decks. You talked about cards that would and wouldn't be great in Mill decks and how you tried to restrict the theme so people would post the former and not the latter. So, if that's the wrong idea, you shouldn't be surprised that everyone thought so.
Voidform - "WoW, a card that could enable Shadowform with this weeks theme slapped onto it, how creative and rare to see" /s
Cards pushing a specific archetype aren't rare. Yes, a lot of people like Shadowform synergy because that's an archetype we all want to see.
And to the guy who said 0-mana Shadowform is broken: my card is balanced around the Assassinate/Naturalize distinction. HS designers thought a 4-mana discount is worth 2 cards yet Naturalize doesn't see any play (it may once Mulch rotates out though) so a 3 mana discount for 2 cards is not broken at all.
For those who don't particularly like my card, the idea behind it is that it's on par with Nourish, both in mana cost and style. You get to draw an extra card with the negative side effect of giving your opponent 4 (really good against greedy people). Emperor Thaurissan is clearly better, having a 5/5 body for 1 more mana, but he is rotating out very soon and we still have Fandral Staghelm who is ridiculous with this combo. I'd be terrified seeing it in a Jade Druid deck because honestly, it would be an auto-include for them. It brings your opponent closer to fatigue while giving you even more ramp.
Cards pushing a specific archetype aren't rare. Yes, a lot of people like Shadowform synergy because that's an archetype we all want to see.
And to the guy who said 0-mana Shadowform is broken: my card is balanced around the Assassinate/Naturalize distinction. HS designers thought a 4-mana discount is worth 2 cards yet Naturalize doesn't see any play (it may once Mulch rotates out though) so a 3 mana discount for 2 cards is not broken at all.
Actually, Voidform is broken. There are several major differences here between Rogue and Priest.
Priests don't actually need to do that much damage if they don't build all-in for it. The difference between Shadowform for rogues and Shadowform for priest can't be ignored. Where in priest you're giving up this massive defensive tool which you almost always use, rogues have a hero power that becomes less useful as the game goes on.
Card draw matters far more to a priest than to a rogue. A priest needs to outvalue their opponent. This is the priest game plan, and Voidform would probably be more, although still not entirely, balanced in priest. Rogue is the hypertempo class. It really doesn't care how many cards its opponents draw.
Tempo matters. The difference in tempo between Shadowform and Voidform is significant. Shadowform's first cast requires 5 mana, which is completely unusable for what's clearly a tempo/control tool. A significant loss of tempo will certainly make things harder for any class. Voidform's relatively high tempo/value mix plays right into what the rogue needs. Worth more than just two cards for your opponent.
Hunter hero power in rogue/priest. What happens if you give priests the hunter hero power? They lose their hero power. What happens if you give rogues the hunter hero power? Just enough reach to outSMOrc hunters one hundred percent of the time. Because rogue is the class with ridiculously high tempo.
For those who don't particularly like my card, the idea behind it is that it's on par with Nourish, both in mana cost and style. You get to draw an extra card with the negative side effect of giving your opponent 4 (really good against greedy people). Emperor Thaurissan is clearly better, having a 5/5 body for 1 more mana, but he is rotating out very soon and we still have Fandral Staghelm who is ridiculous with this combo. I'd be terrified seeing it in a Jade Druid deck because honestly, it would be an auto-include for them. It brings your opponent closer to fatigue while giving you even more ramp.
I could tell you were trying to make another Nourish card, but that was what made it so hard for me to vote for it. For one its way too expensive, reducing your cards for 1 for 5 mana is absolutely bonkers, and you're paying 5 mana to draw one more card but to compensate by giving your opponent 4 more cards as well. I would've liked it way more if you didn't try to make it directly compete with Nourish, by maybe making the spell 4 mana. Also again the effects are not balanced IMO, Emperor T was indeed OP but that kind of effect shouldn't cost that much, probs 2-3 mana based on average hand size being around 4-6.
For those who don't particularly like my card, the idea behind it is that it's on par with Nourish, both in mana cost and style. You get to draw an extra card with the negative side effect of giving your opponent 4 (really good against greedy people). Emperor Thaurissan is clearly better, having a 5/5 body for 1 more mana, but he is rotating out very soon and we still have Fandral Staghelm who is ridiculous with this combo. I'd be terrified seeing it in a Jade Druid deck because honestly, it would be an auto-include for them. It brings your opponent closer to fatigue while giving you even more ramp.
I could tell you were trying to make another Nourish card, but that was what made it so hard for me to vote for it. For one its way too expensive, reducing your cards for 1 for 5 mana is absolutely bonkers, and you're paying 5 mana to draw one more card but to compensate by giving your opponent 4 more cards as well. I would've liked it way more if you didn't try to make it directly compete with Nourish, by maybe making the spell 4 mana. Also again the effects are not balanced IMO, Emperor T was indeed OP but that kind of effect shouldn't cost that much, probs 2-3 mana based on average hand size being around 4-6.
I would have preferred to make the card 4 mana, but then it felt too OP, especially considering that druids have insane draw power as it is. We both agree that Emp T is OP, but I always thought his effect should be 4-5 mana, and card draw is usually 1 mana per card, so in general it's arguable my card should have cost 4 mana, but due to druids ability to ramp (Wild Growth, Innervate, Jade Blossom) I felt it would be too much at that point. In hindsight my card may not have been the greatest, but I still like it. I may re-use it one day and drop it down to 4 mana, I may not. I appreciate all the feedback though, and will be sure to take it into consideration.
For those who don't particularly like my card, the idea behind it is that it's on par with Nourish, both in mana cost and style. You get to draw an extra card with the negative side effect of giving your opponent 4 (really good against greedy people). Emperor Thaurissan is clearly better, having a 5/5 body for 1 more mana, but he is rotating out very soon and we still have Fandral Staghelm who is ridiculous with this combo. I'd be terrified seeing it in a Jade Druid deck because honestly, it would be an auto-include for them. It brings your opponent closer to fatigue while giving you even more ramp.
I could tell you were trying to make another Nourish card, but that was what made it so hard for me to vote for it. For one its way too expensive, reducing your cards for 1 for 5 mana is absolutely bonkers, and you're paying 5 mana to draw one more card but to compensate by giving your opponent 4 more cards as well. I would've liked it way more if you didn't try to make it directly compete with Nourish, by maybe making the spell 4 mana. Also again the effects are not balanced IMO, Emperor T was indeed OP but that kind of effect shouldn't cost that much, probs 2-3 mana based on average hand size being around 4-6.
I would have preferred to make the card 4 mana, but then it felt too OP, especially considering that druids have insane draw power as it is. We both agree that Emp T is OP, but I always thought his effect should be 4-5 mana, and card draw is usually 1 mana per card, so in general it's arguable my card should have cost 4 mana, but due to druids ability to ramp (Wild Growth, Innervate, Jade Blossom) I felt it would be too much at that point. In hindsight my card may not have been the greatest, but I still like it. I may re-use it one day and drop it down to 4 mana, I may not. I appreciate all the feedback though, and will be sure to take it into consideration.
That's cool, I see you didn't want to start a Tempo Storm with this card, but I don't think it would've been OP. Sure you can ramp but if you play Auctioneer into This the most you can do is innervate into a bunch of Jade Golems, something an opponent should be able to deal with since you just gave them 4 more cards.
Also, for future reference if you increase the cost because you think its OP, you might as well scale the effect to the new cost (i.e draw 5 cards each), I don't think it would cause that much of a problem.
For those who don't particularly like my card, the idea behind it is that it's on par with Nourish, both in mana cost and style. You get to draw an extra card with the negative side effect of giving your opponent 4 (really good against greedy people). Emperor Thaurissan is clearly better, having a 5/5 body for 1 more mana, but he is rotating out very soon and we still have Fandral Staghelm who is ridiculous with this combo. I'd be terrified seeing it in a Jade Druid deck because honestly, it would be an auto-include for them. It brings your opponent closer to fatigue while giving you even more ramp.
I could tell you were trying to make another Nourish card, but that was what made it so hard for me to vote for it. For one its way too expensive, reducing your cards for 1 for 5 mana is absolutely bonkers, and you're paying 5 mana to draw one more card but to compensate by giving your opponent 4 more cards as well. I would've liked it way more if you didn't try to make it directly compete with Nourish, by maybe making the spell 4 mana. Also again the effects are not balanced IMO, Emperor T was indeed OP but that kind of effect shouldn't cost that much, probs 2-3 mana based on average hand size being around 4-6.
I would have preferred to make the card 4 mana, but then it felt too OP, especially considering that druids have insane draw power as it is. We both agree that Emp T is OP, but I always thought his effect should be 4-5 mana, and card draw is usually 1 mana per card, so in general it's arguable my card should have cost 4 mana, but due to druids ability to ramp (Wild Growth, Innervate, Jade Blossom) I felt it would be too much at that point. In hindsight my card may not have been the greatest, but I still like it. I may re-use it one day and drop it down to 4 mana, I may not. I appreciate all the feedback though, and will be sure to take it into consideration.
That's cool, I see you didn't want to start a Tempo Storm with this card, but I don't think it would've been OP. Sure you can ramp but if you play Auctioneer into This the most you can do is innervate into a bunch of Jade Golems, something an opponent should be able to deal with since you just gave them 4 more cards.
Also, for future reference if you increase the cost because you think its OP, you might as well scale the effect to the new cost (i.e draw 5 cards each), I don't think it would cause that much of a problem.
That is a fair point, thank you.
On another topic, here are my favorite 3 cards (in no particular order) from the options and why -
An Interview with Nat - Admittedly this card is a bit of a gimmick but damn it's a good one. I love the flavor of it and it certainly seems like something Blizzard would publish. You get 10 mana's worth of cards for 9 mana, and a net of 12/14 stats (on your opponents turn after) or 14/16 (if they draw the extra card). It's powerful, but nothing has charge so I'd call it fair.
Back-alley Deal - This card just feels proper for rogue, although I feel it should be 1 mana for that effect, or keep it 2 mana and draw 2 cards. Considering all the 0-mana spells rogue has that seems fair for the combo. Other than that, the name scheme and ability just feels good as a rogue card.
My third choice was honestly a toss up between Taran Zhu and Lotus Turtlerider for very different reasons. I like TZ because again, it's extremely fitting for rogue and the effect certainly makes decisions more important, with the obvious downside of possibly losing out on combo pieces. TZ only really works as a rogue legendary, and I find it fitting. As for LT, I love that a Jade Lotus card made it to the finals (I'm a huge Jade Druid player) and the effect of drawing for the number of golems is a solid mechanic. Even if there's no golems on the field, it's still a 7/7 for 7. I don't think I can pick one of these two as better than the other so I guess I'll have to say Nature's Blessing takes the third slot (kidding). I do like my card, but I've already gone over it with Zence, and this is about the other cards.
My two favorites were Taran and Fishing, along with mine, wich didn't make the cut. Great design and prices fitting for their power, really strong cards compared to the average Hearthstone cards but balanced compared to the other cards in this contest. Good luck guys!
THERE IS NO GAME.
Why Rogue is my favourite class:
My submission for this week's card design competition.
Some of the arguments are fine, sure. Maybe it's a little undercosted. Maybe it has anti-synergy with Vanish. But when you go into lorewise, now that's just full on preference. You can't disqualify a card just because you don't think it fits the lore. Ragnaros Lightlord doesn't fit the lore and he's a card that exists. Hearthstone likes to poke fun, and this card is the sort of humor the HS team likes.
I think it would've been better if you only summoned one Reporter instead of two, or a 1/1 copy of the Reporter, or whatever to justify reducing the cost just a tiny bit. A mill Rogue's most reliable win condition is surviving long enough to the Coldlight combo. A big board of threats could be another win condition, but personally, I'm not convinced. Point is, If you're going to dismiss Interview With Nat, I would dismiss the design, the mechanics, the balance of the card, not how it doesn't follow in the spirit of the competition.
If you want a world where this card would be disqualified, it would be a world where the WCDC has ultra strict rules where going an inch beyond what is "expected" means your submission is unacceptable. Even though I didn't vote for it for the reasons explained above, it did make me go "lol, that's pretty creative. There's an inherent little story within just a card" on flavor alone, and in a world with a strict WCDC, you wouldn't get to see cards like that.
EDIT: To add to your statement about people on reddit, I would judge it like this:
"it's OP in terms of value, but in the usual iteration of Mill Rogue, no one's going to play it because it's so expensive and doesn't contribute much to the win condition."
If you got the coin, the Mercenaries get going. Vote for The Mercenary for CCC #3.
Come Play Make the Keyword!!!
Check out my Worgen Class in the Class Competition
Explosive Shot => Meteor
Power Word: Tentacles => Spikeridged Steed
I don't have time this week to do a full review of the cards, but I will say my favourites are Back-alley Deal, Backhand, Grinning Trickster and Acolyte of Wisom.
I think that each of them is interesting, fits well in Hearthstone and really matches the theme this week of creating a card for Mill decks. Additionally, they're for the most part well-balanced, I think.
Honourable mention to An Interview With Nat, for being a card that's clever thematically but sort of falls apart when you consider that it wouldn't be used as a Mill tool, but as a combo card with Conceal.
Oh, and my own card, I like that one =P Lotus Turtlerider was designed with Mill Druid in mind mainly, considering how Jade Idol can help prevent fatigue and works so well with it, but it was also created as a patch for one of Jade decks main weaknesses, being running out of steam after you've dumped your early-game Jade cards.
You can find me here! Good luck everyone!
Come Play Make the Keyword!!!
Check out my Worgen Class in the Class Competition
With regards to the question of the power level of An Interview With Nat, I think there's an important question that needs to be asked:
Does a card need to be "good" to fit this theme?
I think that the answer is no, and I think that for several reasons:
1) The theme creator themselves never said this week's goal was to elevate, push, advance, or make more viable mill strategies. The way that they originally posited this theme to us was, and I quote:
I see "celebrate" and that's pretty much it. The theme can just be to make mill cards, without actually needing to make mill strategies significantly better. Granted, this is from the private message between us and the theme creator, so I can certainly see how folks might have assumed making mill better was the goal, but I don't think we ever actually said that.
2) There are plenty of real, existing mill cards that don't see play even in mill decks because they're not good enough. But just because they're not good enough to be used doesn't mean we don't agree that they're mill cards. Nat, the Darkfisher himself is a great example. He is pretty unarguably a mill card. He is also not good enough to make it into most mill decks.
3) Given that a lot of people dislike mill strategies, including the developers themselves who openly stated it's not one they want to make viable, making a mill card that isn't great is arguably both more appealing and realistic than making one that is.
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Check out my Worgen Class in the Class Competition
My vote is for An Interview With Nat and Manahouse Millstorm.
Custom cards :
CLASSES : Alchemist (CCC#5 | Phase V) | Chef (CCC#4)
EXPANSIONS : Year of the Scorpion (Year Comp)
Oh yay I made it to the finals!
For those who don't particularly like my card, the idea behind it is that it's on par with Nourish, both in mana cost and style. You get to draw an extra card with the negative side effect of giving your opponent 4 (really good against greedy people). Emperor Thaurissan is clearly better, having a 5/5 body for 1 more mana, but he is rotating out very soon and we still have Fandral Staghelm who is ridiculous with this combo. I'd be terrified seeing it in a Jade Druid deck because honestly, it would be an auto-include for them. It brings your opponent closer to fatigue while giving you even more ramp.
RedneckBudha
Come Play Make the Keyword!!!
Check out my Worgen Class in the Class Competition
RedneckBudha
RedneckBudha
My two favorites were Taran and Fishing, along with mine, wich didn't make the cut. Great design and prices fitting for their power, really strong cards compared to the average Hearthstone cards but balanced compared to the other cards in this contest. Good luck guys!
I really hope Interview With Nat wins this haha
Congratulations to our winner! The next competition Discussion Topic has just gone up now, too, so go check it out :D
You can find me here! Good luck everyone!