Pact is definitely an abusable card, but only because certain humongous deathrattles exist - which would be ok-ish, on their own, without pact.
Tbh, i can't target THE problem of Hand/Cubelock, be it Doomversion or Voidversion or hybrid etc.
In Wild, the Voidwall + Mal'ganis is pretty hard to counter.
All in all, i feel we reached unparalleled powerlevels that are hard to fix with few nerfs, without killing the archetypes that is.
PS: Spiteful is highly abusable as well, together with Big and Naga decks: the conditions on deckbuilding are not really restrictions, when highroll becomes consistent enough to regularly win you games.
Many decks currently counter Cubelock, including; Control Lock, Aggro Pally, Murloc Pally, Burn Mage, Big Priest (If it highrolls), and to a lesser extent Mill/Kingsbane Rogue. Even with Dark Pact the deck is far from unstoppable.
You are wrong about the paladin being counter. Warlocks are the only unfavourable matchups for murloc paladin. Take a look at viciouss syndicate meta analysis for proof.
It's actually been interesting to read the comments by others and I'll be the first to admit that I stand (partly) corrected. Although it's also important to remember everyone is entitled to opinion and that, is the point of forums such as these.
It's also been really interesting to read peoples opinions on doomguard.
I'm greatful to all the users who wrote constructive replies rather than instant hot remarks. So all in all I am pleases with the thread to be honest.
Dark Pact is quite fair tbh. Compared to its counterpart Sacrificial Pact. You get 3 more healing and the ability to target any type of minion for the cost of only being able to target friendly units and costing 1 mana more. Seems to me like a fair trade. The issue lies in how other cards combos, not always the indinvidual cards themselves.
But the problem is NOT Dark Pact. It's simply Doomguard. This card should have been nerfed LONG time ago. It would not take much: simply change it to Battlecry: Discard two random cards, gain Charge.
It should only have charge when you discarded 2 cards.
It should gain charge, if played from hand. (Otherwise it would be a nerf for Zoolock, because he is unplayable with 1 discard.)
the problem card is possessed lacky in a world where doomguard or void lord exist. it's sthe same issue with barnes. If your deck can afford to run no bad options, it's an extremely reliable high tempo, high value, stall combo
"I have seen worlds bathed in the Makers' flames, their denizens fading without as much as a whimper. Entire planetary systems born and razed in the time that it takes your mortal hearts to beat once. Yet all throughout, my own heart devoid of emotion... of empathy. I. Have. Felt. Nothing. A million-million lives wasted. Had they all held within them your tenacity? Had they all loved life as you do?"
the problem card is possessed lacky in a world where doomguard or void lord exist. it's sthe same issue with barnes. If your deck can afford to run no bad options, it's an extremely reliable high tempo, high value, stall combo
This, but don't forget Defiles job of clearing aggro-boards and that draw-dude making the deck more consistant. Dark pact is not that crazy imo.
If you believe that Dark pact is the problem, you are right. If you believe Doomguard is the problem, you are also right.
The fact is, Warlock is in a good spot right now, but look at past metas: Shamanstone, CW vs CP, Razakus, Undertaker Hunter, Secret Paladin, Jade Druid, Quest Rogue, Freeze/Tempo/Secret/Quest Mage.
At the end off the day, every class has had a time to shine so far, wait until the next expansion and warrior and shaman could be back on top of the meta.
That being said I wouldn’t mind if Pact would be nerfed to, for example, silence the targeted minion before sacrificing it and gaining the 8 health.
The fact that you can heal for 8, get two high value minions for 1 mana is absurd.
This make SO much sense that I can't help but treat it as a litmus test for Blizzard's performance. If this exact nerf doesn't happen I'll honestly lose a lot of faith.
Then be prepared to lose faith because that's an effect that ain't happening.
I can sit here and explain it but... frankly, I am just going to go ahead and say; go and read the reasoning behind the the specific Fiery Waraxe-nerf it recieved in the blue post.
As much as Doomguard wouldn't have charge anymore, you are also making it a 5/7 body that does something entirely different than what it has been doing for soon to be 5 years. Uh-uh, ain't a very good idea to change that.
You want to nerf Cube-lock? Make the cube only spit out 1 copy of what it ate rather than 2. Make it cost 6 mana. Etc. It's a bad suggestion and also on the topic of Dark Pact being ridiculous... ... ... ... Might need to elaborate on this a bit more rather than try to meme your way to an argument.
But the problem is NOT Dark Pact. It's simply Doomguard. This card should have been nerfed LONG time ago. It would not take much: simply change it to Battlecry: Discard two random cards, gain Charge.
It should only have charge when you discarded 2 cards.
thats by far the best nerf for the card I've ever read
Totally agree. You can still play it with no cards in hand to still get charge and not discarding anything, but at the moment it is some kind of 5/7 prenerf Patches
fun to play against? you gotta be one of those people who consider big priest with barnes into obsidian and then resurrect that 16633788 times "fun to play against" aswell, right??
i think mana cheat decks are usually considered NOT fun to play against because of all the unfair advantages they get
fun to play against? you gotta be one of those people who consider big priest with barnes into obsidian and then resurrect that 16633788 times "fun to play against" aswell, right??
i think mana cheat decks are usually considered NOT fun to play against because of all the unfair advantages they get
If it would be unfair, everyone would play it.
Every Meta deck has its advantages. If you play an aggro deck vs big priest and he does not have Barnes you simply win.
It is also funny to see if he pulls out a 5/5 Barnes with the 6 mana spell,
fun to play against? you gotta be one of those people who consider big priest with barnes into obsidian and then resurrect that 16633788 times "fun to play against" aswell, right??
i think mana cheat decks are usually considered NOT fun to play against because of all the unfair advantages they get
If it would be unfair, everyone would play it.
Every Meta deck has its advantages. If you play an aggro deck vs big priest and he does not have Barnes you simply win.
It is also funny to see if he pulls out a 5/5 Barnes with the 6 mana spell,
yeah but the problem with control lock is you usually cant kill it before turn 5 even with super aggressive decks and after that it keeps on healing for 30+ hp while also dropping and multplying the best taunt minion in the game, until you either loose your chance to control board as an minion centric deck or run out of burn as a spell heavy deck
The problem isn't Dark Pact, I would go as far as to say Dark Pact is a very WEAK card, it only finds a home in cubelock, and that's thanks to the deathrattle synergy, also I play cubelock cause I love it, not to win games with it, so don't tell me to be ashamed of what I like
fun to play against? you gotta be one of those people who consider big priest with barnes into obsidian and then resurrect that 16633788 times "fun to play against" aswell, right??
i think mana cheat decks are usually considered NOT fun to play against because of all the unfair advantages they get
If it would be unfair, everyone would play it.
Every Meta deck has its advantages. If you play an aggro deck vs big priest and he does not have Barnes you simply win.
It is also funny to see if he pulls out a 5/5 Barnes with the 6 mana spell,
yeah but the problem with control lock is you usually cant kill it before turn 5 even with super aggressive decks and after that it keeps on healing for 30+ hp while also dropping and multplying the best taunt minion in the game, until you either loose your chance to control board as an minion centric deck or run out of burn as a spell heavy deck
I agree with the control lock topic.
I personally only have success against this deck, if I am able to steal his demons with my priest.
To get back to the topic: I think Dark Pact is too strong. Even when you play it not on Lackey it is still a massive heal.
I know that Priest has a 1 mana: restore 5 health, but you expect heal from a priest.
Lackey/Skull is the real issue - not pact (more so Lackey).
Pact is troublesome, yes. When warlock gets heal, control warlock is viable. So, to the extent someone thinks that control warlock shouldn't be viable, then yes. Pact is a problem.
But without the ability to keep cheating out huge threats, the heal would be much less meaningful/useful. If you don't believe me, try playing Cubelock without Skull and Lackey. See how well you perform over 100 games.
Pact is definitely an abusable card, but only because certain humongous deathrattles exist - which would be ok-ish, on their own, without pact.
Tbh, i can't target THE problem of Hand/Cubelock, be it Doomversion or Voidversion or hybrid etc.
In Wild, the Voidwall + Mal'ganis is pretty hard to counter.
All in all, i feel we reached unparalleled powerlevels that are hard to fix with few nerfs, without killing the archetypes that is.
PS: Spiteful is highly abusable as well, together with Big and Naga decks: the conditions on deckbuilding are not really restrictions, when highroll becomes consistent enough to regularly win you games.
Its funny that you can run 3 tech cards that all counter this deck but people still complain about it.
This post is about a card that you can destroy out of your opponent's deck with geist...
It's actually been interesting to read the comments by others and I'll be the first to admit that I stand (partly) corrected. Although it's also important to remember everyone is entitled to opinion and that, is the point of forums such as these.
It's also been really interesting to read peoples opinions on doomguard.
I'm greatful to all the users who wrote constructive replies rather than instant hot remarks. So all in all I am pleases with the thread to be honest.
Please don't tell my girlfriend about my card collection...
Dark Pact is quite fair tbh. Compared to its counterpart Sacrificial Pact. You get 3 more healing and the ability to target any type of minion for the cost of only being able to target friendly units and costing 1 mana more. Seems to me like a fair trade. The issue lies in how other cards combos, not always the indinvidual cards themselves.
the problem card is possessed lacky in a world where doomguard or void lord exist. it's sthe same issue with barnes.
If your deck can afford to run no bad options, it's an extremely reliable high tempo, high value, stall combo
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
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If you believe that Dark pact is the problem, you are right. If you believe Doomguard is the problem, you are also right.
The fact is, Warlock is in a good spot right now, but look at past metas: Shamanstone, CW vs CP, Razakus, Undertaker Hunter, Secret Paladin, Jade Druid, Quest Rogue, Freeze/Tempo/Secret/Quest Mage.
At the end off the day, every class has had a time to shine so far, wait until the next expansion and warrior and shaman could be back on top of the meta.
That being said I wouldn’t mind if Pact would be nerfed to, for example, silence the targeted minion before sacrificing it and gaining the 8 health.
The fact that you can heal for 8, get two high value minions for 1 mana is absurd.
fun to play against? you gotta be one of those people who consider big priest with barnes into obsidian and then resurrect that 16633788 times "fun to play against" aswell, right??
i think mana cheat decks are usually considered NOT fun to play against because of all the unfair advantages they get
The problem isn't Dark Pact, I would go as far as to say Dark Pact is a very WEAK card, it only finds a home in cubelock, and that's thanks to the deathrattle synergy, also I play cubelock cause I love it, not to win games with it, so don't tell me to be ashamed of what I like
Don't mind me just passing by
Lackey/Skull is the real issue - not pact (more so Lackey).
Pact is troublesome, yes. When warlock gets heal, control warlock is viable. So, to the extent someone thinks that control warlock shouldn't be viable, then yes. Pact is a problem.
But without the ability to keep cheating out huge threats, the heal would be much less meaningful/useful. If you don't believe me, try playing Cubelock without Skull and Lackey. See how well you perform over 100 games.
Real problem is Possessed Lackey's recruit mechanic - Without it, Doomguard would be unplayable ( Control deck just can't throw 2 cards away ).
Whole recruit mechanic is big mistake, lol.
Blizzard should nerf every single card, or maybe they should let players to make all the cards because they're better than the design team.
Please, put a stop to those kind of posts.
I don't think that Possessed Lackey is the big problem here. If you cannot sacrifice him right away, the chance that he get's silenced is very high.
So I still think that a 1 mana sacrifice spell which includes a strong heal is too strong.