The thing that I think cripples Shaman isn't so much the Overload itself so much as the lack of interaction with it. Warlocks used to be the same with discarding cards and now they are starting to get cards to synergize it with. Shaman needs Overload synergy, and so far there has only been 2 cards in a total that do it; Unbound Elemental and Lava Shock. Give Shamans more cards to work around or with the Overload and you might just get the class back on its feet. I theorycrafted a couple for my Dragon concepts, which I will post below.
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Or , you could just learn how to use it... Overload's purpose it to force you to calculate and plan forward. Cards with overload are very rewarding , just not the kind of card a grim warrior or face hunter player would understand...
Well, the "Face Hunter and Grim Patron" players that make up the pro tournament scene seem to agree that Shaman sucks right now. If the Blizzcon regional qualifiers feature 22 Midrange Druids, 15 Patrons and 14 Handlocks, and only ONE Shaman, then something is wrong with the class. Turns out Shaman decks are now rank 20 and 21 of 21 ranked decks. Quote: "cards like Lava Burst are quite useless without being the absolute last spells you play to finish your opponent off"
I don't see the point of this : if you don't like Overload, there are 8 class without that mechanic waiting for you. If you want to make Shaman a secretless version of Mage, then just go play a Mage deck without secrets.
First of all, yes, Lava Shock is over the top, but so is Innervate and Wild Growth. And Unstable Portal. Shaman's way to keep up with that was supposed to be Overload, but it just doesn't deliver.
But you know what? You have a point. Secretless Mage is one of my favorite decks - it's a lot more fun, rewarding and effective to play than any Shaman decks. Why play a (Liquidhearth) rank 20 deck when I can play rank 5? Doesn't make much sense.
So yeah, I'll go with your suggestion. Shuck Faman. I just don't understand how awesome Overload is. I am not worthy. Totally solves the problem, doesn't it? Let me go ahead and delete the thread.
The thing that I think cripples Shaman isn't so much the Overload itself so much as the lack of interaction with it.
I wish that was true, but it just isn't. It's an arbitrary mechanic on 17 of 45 class cards that 2 other cards interact with. But it doesn't do anything cool. Enrage is cool. Stealth is cool. Windfury is cool. Inspire is cool. Joust... well it could be cool if there was a good card with it next to King's Elekk. Overload just doesn't do anything on the board. It just screws you over the next turn. It's just constant frustration.
It's also completely arbitrary? Why isn't Mistcaller a 4 Mana Overload (2)? It has a turn 4 body. On that card, Overload would make sense.
There are two cards that make good use out of Overload, by giving you a high-stat minion before the time. Totem Golem and Fireguard Destroyer. Plus maybe Earth Elemental. Except, they are really just fat bodies. At the very least, one or two overload minions should be a source of fun interactions like Nexus Champion Saraad or Gahz'rilla. Neptulon is only half-way there.
But the worst ist that Druid and Mage have much better ways to ramp and play for tempo.
I think overload should be an option. either pay the price of the card this turn or overload the next turn
example : totem golem either pay it 3 mana or pay it 2 mana and overload 1 next turn.
overload fucks up the mana curve. the RNG is already a disadventage compared to other classes add it overload and the result is shaman is not to be found on ladder compared to other classes ofc
The thing that I think cripples Shaman isn't so much the Overload itself so much as the lack of interaction with it. Warlocks used to be the same with discarding cards and now they are starting to get cards to synergize it with. Shaman needs Overload synergy, and so far there has only been 2 cards in a total that do it; Unbound Elemental and Lava Shock. Give Shamans more cards to work around or with the Overload and you might just get the class back on its feet. I theorycrafted a couple for my Dragon concepts, which I will post below.
Yeah no. Overload is cool, plus it's an upside, not a downside. The overload pretty much just adds to the cards overall mana cost, except you can play it earlier. Example, a 5 mana card with overload 2 is pretty much a seven mana card that can be played on turn five or in conjunction with other cards. Also, the cards you made were all pretty bad and crappy and would kill shaman. So no, overload is fine. Blizzard would never change it anyways, no chance they would ever drop a whole mechanic, let alone one that worked fairly well in mtg (mana burn is the same thing), let alone a class specific one that makes the class unique. They would also never completely redesign a perfectly balanced card, let alone tons at once that will only affect one class.
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I returned to this game much like how a recovering alcoholic can relapse.
The thing that I think cripples Shaman isn't so much the Overload itself so much as the lack of interaction with it. Warlocks used to be the same with discarding cards and now they are starting to get cards to synergize it with. Shaman needs Overload synergy, and so far there has only been 2 cards in a total that do it; Unbound Elemental and Lava Shock. Give Shamans more cards to work around or with the Overload and you might just get the class back on its feet. I theorycrafted a couple for my Dragon concepts, which I will post below.
I like your card submissions a ton dude.
Thanks! Did you check my thread or did you just mean these two cards?
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CDC #34, #3.07, #3.08 and Mini Competition #1 Finalist --- Click on the images below to check out my different custom card threads!
The thing that I think cripples Shaman isn't so much the Overload itself so much as the lack of interaction with it. Warlocks used to be the same with discarding cards and now they are starting to get cards to synergize it with. Shaman needs Overload synergy, and so far there has only been 2 cards in a total that do it; Unbound Elemental and Lava Shock. Give Shamans more cards to work around or with the Overload and you might just get the class back on its feet. I theorycrafted a couple for my Dragon concepts, which I will post below.
I like your card submissions a ton dude.
Thanks! Did you check my thread or did you just mean these two cards?
Those are just what i saw so i was talking about them? Link me the thread though ill check it out.
The thing that I think cripples Shaman isn't so much the Overload itself so much as the lack of interaction with it. Warlocks used to be the same with discarding cards and now they are starting to get cards to synergize it with. Shaman needs Overload synergy, and so far there has only been 2 cards in a total that do it; Unbound Elemental and Lava Shock. Give Shamans more cards to work around or with the Overload and you might just get the class back on its feet. I theorycrafted a couple for my Dragon concepts, which I will post below.
I like your card submissions a ton dude.
Thanks! Did you check my thread or did you just mean these two cards?
Those are just what i saw so i was talking about them? Link me the thread though ill check it out.
Link is in my signature, just above the images.
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CDC #34, #3.07, #3.08 and Mini Competition #1 Finalist --- Click on the images below to check out my different custom card threads!
Do you think there are Shaman cards that would be balanced if the overload cost was completely eliminated ?
I am not too big on knowledge about Shaman, but it seems to me, some of those cards would still be balanced with no overload.
For one, Siltfin Spiritwalker for (4) mana is actually 1 under on stats (many have 3/5 stats or 4/5 stats for 4 mana) and the ability isn't so good that it need overload. Am I wrong?
Perhaps the Dunemaul Shaman could drop overload and still be balanced. It is a class card after all which can have an extra stat or ability for the mana.
Shaman would be balanced if the overload was canceled out, but a few cards (Such as Totem Golem) would need their mana costs raised and cards like Lava Shock or Unbound Elemental would need to be completely remade, so it would be a huge hassle for the game itself to completely remove overload
If Dunemaul Shaman didn't have overload, it'd be an overpowered card. A lot of the Shaman minions have Overload because they have better stats than other cards at that cost. Siltfin Spiritwalker is comparable to Cult Master , except the Murloc has much better survivability.
If Dunemaul Shaman didn't have overload, it'd be an overpowered card. A lot of the Shaman minions have Overload because they have better stats than other cards at that cost. Siltfin Spiritwalker is comparable to Cult Master , except the Murloc has much better survivability.
I would argue that it still wouldnt be overpowered because it is hindered greatly by its 50% chance to miss mechanic, and even if it would be overpowered, just bump the mana cost up
We just had a thread about it. No, I don't think there is a single overload card that would be balanced without it, if you don't increase the mana cost / lower the effect. And that would miss exactly the point about what makes overload good.
Do you think there are Shaman cards that would be balanced if the overload cost was completely eliminated ?
I am not too big on knowledge about Shaman, but it seems to me, some of those cards would still be balanced with no overload.
For one, that 2/5 Murlock. 2/5 for (4) mana is actually 1 under on stats (many have 3/5 stats or 4/5 stats for 4 mana) and the ability isn't so good that it need overload. Am I wrong?
Perhaps the 5/4 Windfury Ogre could drop overload and still be balanced. It is a class card after all which can have an extra stat or ability for the mana.
(Sorry, no time to look up the names of these cards atm!)
the murloc? drop overload and still be balanced?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
that thing is essentially an MVP of the murloc deck,drawing you near infinite cards as long as it stays alive.
it allows you to control the board,and still win.
its op (as long as you draw it) even with overload,in a murloc deck,
We just had a thread about it. No, I don't think there is a single overload card that would be balanced without it, if you don't increase the mana cost / lower the effect. And that would miss exactly the point about what makes overload good.
lava burst would be balanced without overload.
after all,the formula for balanced spells (for mage) is damage=mana cost + 2
I have said this before and I will say it again:
The thing that I think cripples Shaman isn't so much the Overload itself so much as the lack of interaction with it. Warlocks used to be the same with discarding cards and now they are starting to get cards to synergize it with. Shaman needs Overload synergy, and so far there has only been 2 cards in a total that do it; Unbound Elemental and Lava Shock. Give Shamans more cards to work around or with the Overload and you might just get the class back on its feet. I theorycrafted a couple for my Dragon concepts, which I will post below.
CDC #34, #3.07, #3.08 and Mini Competition #1 Finalist ---
Click on the images below to check out my different custom card threads!
Well, the "Face Hunter and Grim Patron" players that make up the pro tournament scene seem to agree that Shaman sucks right now. If the Blizzcon regional qualifiers feature 22 Midrange Druids, 15 Patrons and 14 Handlocks, and only ONE Shaman, then something is wrong with the class. Turns out Shaman decks are now rank 20 and 21 of 21 ranked decks. Quote: "cards like Lava Burst are quite useless without being the absolute last spells you play to finish your opponent off"
http://www.liquidhearth.com/forum/hearthstone/495696-power-rank-september-93-patron-druid-handlock
So yeah...
First of all, yes, Lava Shock is over the top, but so is Innervate and Wild Growth. And Unstable Portal. Shaman's way to keep up with that was supposed to be Overload, but it just doesn't deliver.
But you know what? You have a point. Secretless Mage is one of my favorite decks - it's a lot more fun, rewarding and effective to play than any Shaman decks. Why play a (Liquidhearth) rank 20 deck when I can play rank 5? Doesn't make much sense.
So yeah, I'll go with your suggestion. Shuck Faman. I just don't understand how awesome Overload is. I am not worthy. Totally solves the problem, doesn't it? Let me go ahead and delete the thread.
I wish that was true, but it just isn't. It's an arbitrary mechanic on 17 of 45 class cards that 2 other cards interact with. But it doesn't do anything cool. Enrage is cool. Stealth is cool. Windfury is cool. Inspire is cool. Joust... well it could be cool if there was a good card with it next to King's Elekk. Overload just doesn't do anything on the board. It just screws you over the next turn. It's just constant frustration.
It's also completely arbitrary? Why isn't Mistcaller a 4 Mana Overload (2)? It has a turn 4 body. On that card, Overload would make sense.
There are two cards that make good use out of Overload, by giving you a high-stat minion before the time. Totem Golem and Fireguard Destroyer. Plus maybe Earth Elemental. Except, they are really just fat bodies. At the very least, one or two overload minions should be a source of fun interactions like Nexus Champion Saraad or Gahz'rilla. Neptulon is only half-way there.
But the worst ist that Druid and Mage have much better ways to ramp and play for tempo.
I think overload should be an option. either pay the price of the card this turn or overload the next turn
example : totem golem either pay it 3 mana or pay it 2 mana and overload 1 next turn.
overload fucks up the mana curve. the RNG is already a disadventage compared to other classes add it overload and the result is shaman is not to be found on ladder compared to other classes ofc
When you have some free time, you should read what David Sirlin has to say about "Playing to Win vs. the Scrub Mentality". Quite an eye-opener.
I like your card submissions a ton dude.
Yeah no. Overload is cool, plus it's an upside, not a downside. The overload pretty much just adds to the cards overall mana cost, except you can play it earlier. Example, a 5 mana card with overload 2 is pretty much a seven mana card that can be played on turn five or in conjunction with other cards. Also, the cards you made were all pretty bad and crappy and would kill shaman. So no, overload is fine. Blizzard would never change it anyways, no chance they would ever drop a whole mechanic, let alone one that worked fairly well in mtg (mana burn is the same thing), let alone a class specific one that makes the class unique. They would also never completely redesign a perfectly balanced card, let alone tons at once that will only affect one class.
I returned to this game much like how a recovering alcoholic can relapse.
Thanks! Did you check my thread or did you just mean these two cards?
CDC #34, #3.07, #3.08 and Mini Competition #1 Finalist ---
Click on the images below to check out my different custom card threads!
Those are just what i saw so i was talking about them? Link me the thread though ill check it out.
Link is in my signature, just above the images.
CDC #34, #3.07, #3.08 and Mini Competition #1 Finalist ---
Click on the images below to check out my different custom card threads!
Do you think there are Shaman cards that would be balanced if the overload cost was completely eliminated ?
I am not too big on knowledge about Shaman, but it seems to me, some of those cards would still be balanced with no overload.
For one, Siltfin Spiritwalker for (4) mana is actually 1 under on stats (many have 3/5 stats or 4/5 stats for 4 mana) and the ability isn't so good that it need overload. Am I wrong?
Perhaps the Dunemaul Shaman could drop overload and still be balanced. It is a class card after all which can have an extra stat or ability for the mana.
Nightblade Argent Lance Flame Imp
Argent Watchman Argent Squire Frost Giant
Aviana Hogger Snipe Sea Giant
Shaman would be balanced if the overload was canceled out, but a few cards (Such as Totem Golem) would need their mana costs raised and cards like Lava Shock or Unbound Elemental would need to be completely remade, so it would be a huge hassle for the game itself to completely remove overload
If Dunemaul Shaman didn't have overload, it'd be an overpowered card. A lot of the Shaman minions have Overload because they have better stats than other cards at that cost. Siltfin Spiritwalker is comparable to Cult Master , except the Murloc has much better survivability.
I would argue that it still wouldnt be overpowered because it is hindered greatly by its 50% chance to miss mechanic, and even if it would be overpowered, just bump the mana cost up
We just had a thread about it. No, I don't think there is a single overload card that would be balanced without it, if you don't increase the mana cost / lower the effect. And that would miss exactly the point about what makes overload good.
the murloc? drop overload and still be balanced?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
that thing is essentially an MVP of the murloc deck,drawing you near infinite cards as long as it stays alive.
it allows you to control the board,and still win.
its op (as long as you draw it) even with overload,in a murloc deck,
granted,murloc decks suck soooooooo.....
"you can't escape me"*
*or my mech mage.
lava burst would be balanced without overload.
after all,the formula for balanced spells (for mage) is damage=mana cost + 2
"you can't escape me"*
*or my mech mage.
I think it would be strictly better than the Kill Command Maybe just 1 overload would be ok
Don't compare mage damage spells with other classes. That's Mages "unique" thing for the most part, although it's a bit inconsistent.
Shaman has also access to +spell power from their hero power, which also went into consideration for balance.