It's been 10 days since KFT was launched, hype blindness has worn off, lots of theorycrafting and ranked testing was done, so i guess it's time for a small recap. The expansion has brought us the following cards:
Valeera the Hollow - While most of us expected this card to be in the typical Rogue cost range of 4-5 mana, we got surprised by whole 9 mana Hero card. First of all, this card is amazing in Wild Mill Rogue. Besides giving you a turn to set up things, 5 armor which means a world to Rogue, it can also double your Coldlight Oracle, Antique Healbot, Doomsayer or whatever you need in the given situation. A pure 10/10 card for Mill Rogue, like it was invented just for it. And that's the problem, other applications, like Miracle Rogue with Arcane Giant can be difficult to set up as you usually require a board clear in form of double Doomsayer before dropping them on board, and, unlike Mill, where there's basically no board threat to remove, your giants can be removed. You'll agree that's quite a setup, and simply playing all in Questing Miracle is usually better (at least i had more success with the regular version without giants, but with Valeera the Hollow).
Lilian Voss - I have tested Lilian Voss by building deck around her in a Burgle Rogue Shell, or as an addition to the Miracle Rogue with lots of petals. Here's a copy/paste of the text i wrote on her on topic intended for her:
Problem number 1 - Do i really want to use it?
First of all, as all of us noticed, there are staple cards that you simply don't want to change, notably, Backstab, Eviscerate, Burgle, Preparation, The Coin, Counterfeit Coin. If nothing, they can be used as combo activators which are essential. Using any of these in an unadequate manner to avoid converting them to crap is subpar play and a loss of tempo for a gain that is uncertain, inpredictable and causes deviations to the game plan.
Problem number 2 - Have i made a good choice?
In the last few games i really found myself in only a few situations where i wanted to replace my spells, especially the ones i burgled. Echo of Medivh? Great, i'll duplicate my Vilespine Slayer. Firelands Portal? Sign me up. Windfury? Can't wait to drop it on Edwin VanCleef. But there lies a trap. We tend to keep the spells that we consider good, but that don't actually fit the style of play sometimes. That Firelands Portal was too expensive and i never had the chance to use it against Tempo Mage with Flamewaker. Though i discounted the Windfury to zero, things almost never went the way i imagined. Though at the moment i was sure of making the right choice, it proved wrong.
Problem number 3 - Burgle minions and spells are anti-tempo
This notion speaks for itself. Swashburglar is only 1/1. Undercity Huckster is only 2/2. Burgle is 3 mana, unless used with Preparation, it's horrible tempo loss. Unearthed Raptor (though i don't use it) has good stats and can yield good gains with Undercity Huckster, especially when played on curve. But Undercity Huckster is the only card with Burgle deathrattle, and it has to be played on curve, so it's too situational to be used. Lotus Agents have the discover option, which is excellent, but its health is poor and its too easily removed for a five drop. Shaku, the Collector is 3 mana with the unfortunate factor of having 2/3 stats instead of 3/2, so it will rarely remove a minion on turn 4, let alone stay alive to pull one more card. Only card that is not anti tempo and has good value and synergy because of discover, cost and hence, combo activation is Hallucination.
Problem number 4 - Expensive discounting
Though the loss of tempo can be theoretically gained back by playing Ethereal Peddler, which is a good stated card, it is simply to expensive to play a five drop that does basically nothing for board state except thumping a pile of stats, and usually not discounting the spells or minions enough to be played on the same turn.
Problem number 5 - Spells only
Incredible drawback of Lilian Voss is that she transforms only spells, which is not something that you always get from burgling and more often than spells, you get something that is either bad, too expensive, or too cheap for the current mana state.
Problem number 6 - Lack of win condition
Since we want to maximize our burgling potential, we'll be using a lot of cards intended for that which are inefficient in keeping the board control and don't contribute to our win condition which is...undefined at the moment with deck that will utilize her efficiently. Making a win condition on the go is not good and it doesn't work (referring to Burgle Rogue). In Miracle Rogue, i don't really want to cut one Tomb Pillager to put her in, and i really need my petals and coins for cycling and Sherazin, Corpse Flower. I really tried hard to make a decent deck for days and i have a lot of deckbuilding experience, but i simply can't make a deck will go over 50% winrate on high ranks. Maybe someone else will be more skillful to make it work.
Spectral Pillager - A very specific card which needs a lot of setup to be worthwhile. Only case of use is basically in Miracle after lot of cycling as an additional source of damage to wrap up the lethal, but i think that is quite a fringe case which is simply not worth it at 6 mana since there are much better solutions to deal additional damage needed, especially with Valeera the Hollow. If it was cheaper, it would be an excellent card, Rogue just doesn't need this kind of minions in its current state. If a card or spell which doubles your combos would ever appear, it would maybe make some sense. Too many woulds.
Doomerang - I really like this one. Good card, but struggling to find place in the usual Rogue archetypes. Yes, you can combine it amazingly with Shadowblade which enables you to effectively double the number of them in your deck to help you contest the board, but Rogue was never about outvaluing the opponent via the board (especially with basically no healing) but more about controlling it just enough to set the puzzle pieces for the final burst of damage. Does Doomerang help to that cause? Definitely. But it also denies you two slots that you usually need for your build. Besides, it can be quite a dead card if you don't have a Shadowblade equipped, but you can use it with your basic weapon which can be reequipped for only 1 mana and used for combo/miracle feeding.
Runeforge Haunter - With its aggresively distributed stats it is a target for immediate removal, so it will basically grant you one additional weapon charge before it dies to a two drop. Best played with a Shadowblade in hand and only one minion on the opposing side of the board since the opponent will either have to lose tempo with casting spell to remove it, equip a weapon and deal 5 damage to its face, or put a new minion which can be removed with no durability loss again. Its best friend is certainly Shadowblade, they curve out nicely, and with its help having a basically at least 3/3 that doesn't lose you health on the first hit is amazing. I find Runeforge Haunter a great card that is yet to see its glory days with future expansions.
Shadowblade - Certainly a weapon that we all have been waiting for. Besides protecting your face on the first hit and its good stats it is also quite synergistic with Doomerang which can deal 3 damage + buffs applied and get it back to you hand so you can reequip it and hit again with no health lost. With it, you can basically have 4 Shadowblades in your hand. If you need that extra 1 damage, you can use it with your basic weapon which can be reequipped for only 1 mana and used for combo/miracle feeding. Certainly not a card to build a deck around, but a fine addition for fending off early and mid game aggression.
Roll the Bones - I lost a couple of days trying to make this card worthwhile in a deck, but it's just not. I tried decks from 15-28 deathrattles, besides the decks usually ending as an anti synergistic mess, Lord RNGesus fill almost always screw with drawing just one card if you're not full of deathrattles. I even tried a full deathrattle deck with low cost minions and N'Zoth, and while you can spam a full board every turn, one or two board clears are enough to bring your game to an end. N'Zoth bringing back a board of 2-3 drops on turn 10 is not of much use too, you'll agree. Works well against Pirate Warriors though. If you really need a card draw for 2 mana, Shiv is a much better choice. Maybe some future card that may provide some more synergy will make this card shine.
Bone Baron - I must say that i'm surprised by this card, and decided to drop Azure Drakes in the Miracle build for 2 x Bone Baron. Sure, Drakes bring that +1 spell damage that can be essential sometimes and draw you a card, but nowadays a 4/4 for 5 mana is just ridiculous. 5/5 is a massive body that simply must be responded to, plus it yields two skeletons that are excellent for comboing and buffing Edwin and Adventurers. I have no draw problem without Drakes, and the curve is awesome, Pillager on turn 4, 5/5 on turn five really puts the opponent on timer. If they choose to ignore it, they'll simply get smacked for 5 to the face. Not to mention that it really bring a lot to the Quest Rogue table and makes it close to being really good. If i must find it a drawback, it's the vulnerability to Shadow Word: Death, but even then, you get your skeleton dudes.
Plague Scientist - Though i was very excited about this card and the possibility of Rogue finally getting a complete board clear, things don't look so bright after testing. First of all, i'm quite baffled with the cost of 3 mana and the additional requirement of combo. 2 mana + combo, or 3 mana without combo with maybe 2/2 stats would be ok. With this cost, it can sometimes be very tricky to pull off the combo. Wild Pyromancer board clear that guarantees a board clear that can't be prevented will cost you 3 cards, and you will lose your Plague Scientist in the process. If you use Shadowstep, the process is cheaper and you will save the Plague Scientist for later, but you have to put in two Shadowsteps in the deck which are usually dead cards nowadays unless used with Leeroy Jenkins for finish. Unstable Ghoul and Sergeant Sally are also good combos, but can be prevented by transform spells or, in case of Sergeant Sally, simply hit face. Using it as a single target removal is usually not the best choice against aggro decks, and against heavier decks you already have a much better alternative in the form of Vilespine Slayer.
Leeching Poison - In theory, a good card. You buff your weapon, you deal damage, you get health back. Finally, healing for Rogue. Except it's not really like that. Besides you basic weapon being only 1/2 and only other usable weapon, Shadowblade, being 3/2, it's questionable if it's worth 5 mana for a 3/2 weapon and recuperate 6 health. Given the Rogue playstyle, it's usually not. Sure, you can extend its longevity with Runeforge Haunter, but it seems that it's never quite the moment to apply Leeching Poison to a weapon, there's always a better tempo play.
All in all, we got a mixed bag this time. I'm not quite sure about the direction where they want the Rogue to go, all of these thing steer towards controlish Rogue type, which i don't think is something that Rogue can excel in. After ten days of testing and shenanigans, all that i found out was that the Miracle is still the best deck to have around for Rogue, while Mill Rogue in Wild gets an honorable mention for destroying control decks.
Very interesting topic. Rogue is one of my favorite class and after KFT release I try to found some new way to play it, because I really hate mill rogue and miracle is pretty bad deck for me.
I would like to share my though for current state of the rogue and eventually find some new interesting way to play this class. So what we have right now in standard?
1) Miracle rogue: I have never found miracle too entertaining to play, because actually it depends on 1 single win condition without any other option of varying. Big minions which should come as soon as possible and smash into face, while we control the board for some time. It is not so awful, but if oponent have 2-3 clear for our 2 golems + Edwin, than this deck has absolutely no real comeback. Especially after conceal gone. Everyone know how annoying can be edwin 12/12 on turn 1 and how rogue concede after devolve/hex/polymorph/swd/execute/naturalize(not like someone use it).... ahhh wait? Everyone has counter for our best combo on turn 1-2-3, and than it is auto concede either for us or for our opponent. This is not a card game, this is just throwing coin who will win. Of course this is one of the few cases in miracle, but most of the time I feel like that. Protect your giants/protect edwin and hope to found path to the face. Honestly I see so rarely miracle rogues in the ladder and I think there is reason for that.
2) Jade Nzot rogue: I like playing death rattles, but this deck without healing is garbage. If you succeed to out tempo your opponent, you may win, but in most situation your hp will end before you reach you win condition. Not bad deck, but not really competitive.
And what we have for wild:
1) Mill rogue: I hate playing this deck because this is some annoying stupid deck, which don't really require so much thinking as hoping that players against us will not depend on spamming cards (as shaman) and we will have good luck with draw in order to burn our opponent deck? Meh.... Just constant vanish/shadow step cold oracle/sap spam. If our cards came good, than we will win, if no, than we lose. I would actually compare to exodia mage. I really hate decks which has only 1 single win condition without varying. Even agro deck doesn't depend only on 1 win condition. Lets take Agro druid. It depends on Vicious Fledgling, Hydra, Living Mana, Roar, tokens + buff and etc. I don't look only for the win, but I would like the path to reach it to be interesting and not same every day.
2) Reno-Nzot: Maybe this is my facourite deck. Jades + some burgling. For past month I am mainly playing wild deck with reno + nzot, which I found to be the most competitive deck for rogue, because reno, really give us this amount of healing needed to survive in late game. While deathrattles minions was always fun for me to play, because it always give you good variate in the outcome of the battle. Sometime you may want to copy with raptor undercity huskler for extra random card, other time you want extra card draw or maybe additional jade? It is up to you. And burgling in the face of shaku, slashburglar and etc is awsome. For me burgling actually is one of the best mechanics in the game, because they give you this small variate which make game to feel different every time you play. But after Reno is gone, what should we do in standard?
3) Aggresive murlock/pirate deck: I like to play aggresive murlock/pirate/leeroy rogue before the year of the mammoth. It was more fun to me than miracle, because it wasn't dependent on 1-2 big minions which if die, game over. And it had ability to comeback 1-2 board clear. But it is gone to wild as well. If I am correct it was called water rogue or something like that maybe. I haven't seen this deck since march, when silent knight go in wild.
And few more words for conclusion and what I think for KFT:
In general it seems that KFT gave us some good card. I agree with Oshigawa about his opininion.
Valeera the Hollow - not bad idea, too expensive. It is just impossible to use her at full potential on turn 9 when we skip whole turn to put it on board and she give us almost no tempo on the same turn or on the next turn. Stealth is awsome, but how the hell this is saving us? We will die not on the same turn, but on the next. The only way to play it is by having one free turn by our opponent, when we know that he can't put any pressure on board, which we can't clear. If it was 5 mana, maybe it would be good card, right now it really need something else in order to be really good. Not like I am not trying to use it, but in 80% of situation I feel like if I put it, I will die by losing board. It really gives me right now fear, that it would be waste of my turn more than actually help for my next turn. This is good control card maybe, but without healing... hell no.
Lilian Voss - real disappointment for me. I love burgling, but this is not playable just. I don't really see the situation where I would want to give up my spell and get something else. Normally this will be in situation where I am almost losing the game and I am desperate, but even after that most likely this is not the right moment for accumulating useless spell which should help you. Extra random card should not be on the cost when the game is almost lost, but in the middle of the game to put some random element which your opponent will not expect and for me actually this is the good rng in hearthstone.
All common/rare/epic card: really no card which make some good effect, which actually to say that we receive something new and useful to play.
In general I am pretty disappointed, because rogues doesn't really receive anything new to play. I understand , that they can't do every expansion strong for everyone, but in reality they just put some new average card, which I even cant imagine that will make any difference for the future. Ok shadowblade is good weapon, bone baron can give you some additional skeleton for combos, but thats all. For me the biggest miss was rogue DK, which should somehow add some new way for rogue to play/survive and was total miss, not because the idea behind it is bad, but because it is coming so late in the game, where you can't actually use it without losing tempo, and I don't see how rogue will ever come with losing tempo card effectively. And that actually is not rogue way to play. This may be the priest/mage/paladin/control warrior, but not rogue. Unfortunately we never see any buff from blizzard side and I think they will leave both DK and Lillian useless legendary. I really hope to be wrong, but right now I see it like this.
TL;DR: Do you have any idea for some fresh and new way to play KFT rogue with this two new legendaries? I would be more than happy to hear it.
It's been 10 days since KFT was launched, hype blindness has worn off, lots of theorycrafting and ranked testing was done, so i guess it's time for a small recap. The expansion has brought us the following cards:
Valeera the Hollow - While most of us expected this card to be in the typical Rogue cost range of 4-5 mana, we got surprised by whole 9 mana Hero card. First of all, this card is amazing in Wild Mill Rogue. Besides giving you a turn to set up things, 5 armor which means a world to Rogue, it can also double your Coldlight Oracle, Antique Healbot, Doomsayer or whatever you need in the given situation. A pure 10/10 card for Mill Rogue, like it was invented just for it. And that's the problem, other applications, like Miracle Rogue with Arcane Giant can be difficult to set up as you usually require a board clear in form of double Doomsayer before dropping them on board, and, unlike Mill, where there's basically no board threat to remove, your giants can be removed. You'll agree that's quite a setup, and simply playing all in Questing Miracle is usually better (at least i had more success with the regular version without giants, but with Valeera the Hollow).
Lilian Voss - I have tested Lilian Voss by building deck around her in a Burgle Rogue Shell, or as an addition to the Miracle Rogue with lots of petals. Here's a copy/paste of the text i wrote on her on topic intended for her:
Problem number 1 - Do i really want to use it?
First of all, as all of us noticed, there are staple cards that you simply don't want to change, notably, Backstab, Eviscerate, Burgle, Preparation, The Coin, Counterfeit Coin. If nothing, they can be used as combo activators which are essential. Using any of these in an unadequate manner to avoid converting them to crap is subpar play and a loss of tempo for a gain that is uncertain, inpredictable and causes deviations to the game plan.
Problem number 2 - Have i made a good choice?
In the last few games i really found myself in only a few situations where i wanted to replace my spells, especially the ones i burgled. Echo of Medivh? Great, i'll duplicate my Vilespine Slayer. Firelands Portal? Sign me up. Windfury? Can't wait to drop it on Edwin VanCleef. But there lies a trap. We tend to keep the spells that we consider good, but that don't actually fit the style of play sometimes. That Firelands Portal was too expensive and i never had the chance to use it against Tempo Mage with Flamewaker. Though i discounted the Windfury to zero, things almost never went the way i imagined. Though at the moment i was sure of making the right choice, it proved wrong.
Problem number 3 - Burgle minions and spells are anti-tempo
This notion speaks for itself. Swashburglar is only 1/1. Undercity Huckster is only 2/2. Burgle is 3 mana, unless used with Preparation, it's horrible tempo loss. Unearthed Raptor (though i don't use it) has good stats and can yield good gains with Undercity Huckster, especially when played on curve. But Undercity Huckster is the only card with Burgle deathrattle, and it has to be played on curve, so it's too situational to be used. Lotus Agents have the discover option, which is excellent, but its health is poor and its too easily removed for a five drop. Shaku, the Collector is 3 mana with the unfortunate factor of having 2/3 stats instead of 3/2, so it will rarely remove a minion on turn 4, let alone stay alive to pull one more card. Only card that is not anti tempo and has good value and synergy because of discover, cost and hence, combo activation is Hallucination.
Problem number 4 - Expensive discounting
Though the loss of tempo can be theoretically gained back by playing Ethereal Peddler, which is a good stated card, it is simply to expensive to play a five drop that does basically nothing for board state except thumping a pile of stats, and usually not discounting the spells or minions enough to be played on the same turn.
Problem number 5 - Spells only
Incredible drawback of Lilian Voss is that she transforms only spells, which is not something that you always get from burgling and more often than spells, you get something that is either bad, too expensive, or too cheap for the current mana state.
Problem number 6 - Lack of win condition
Since we want to maximize our burgling potential, we'll be using a lot of cards intended for that which are inefficient in keeping the board control and don't contribute to our win condition which is...undefined at the moment with deck that will utilize her efficiently. Making a win condition on the go is not good and it doesn't work (referring to Burgle Rogue). In Miracle Rogue, i don't really want to cut one Tomb Pillager to put her in, and i really need my petals and coins for cycling and Sherazin, Corpse Flower. I really tried hard to make a decent deck for days and i have a lot of deckbuilding experience, but i simply can't make a deck will go over 50% winrate on high ranks. Maybe someone else will be more skillful to make it work.
Spectral Pillager - A very specific card which needs a lot of setup to be worthwhile. Only case of use is basically in Miracle after lot of cycling as an additional source of damage to wrap up the lethal, but i think that is quite a fringe case which is simply not worth it at 6 mana since there are much better solutions to deal additional damage needed, especially with Valeera the Hollow. If it was cheaper, it would be an excellent card, Rogue just doesn't need this kind of minions in its current state. If a card or spell which doubles your combos would ever appear, it would maybe make some sense. Too many woulds.
Doomerang - I really like this one. Good card, but struggling to find place in the usual Rogue archetypes. Yes, you can combine it amazingly with Shadowblade which enables you to effectively double the number of them in your deck to help you contest the board, but Rogue was never about outvaluing the opponent via the board (especially with basically no healing) but more about controlling it just enough to set the puzzle pieces for the final burst of damage. Does Doomerang help to that cause? Definitely. But it also denies you two slots that you usually need for your build. Besides, it can be quite a dead card if you don't have a Shadowblade equipped, but you can use it with your basic weapon which can be reequipped for only 1 mana and used for combo/miracle feeding.
Runeforge Haunter - With its aggresively distributed stats it is a target for immediate removal, so it will basically grant you one additional weapon charge before it dies to a two drop. Best played with a Shadowblade in hand and only one minion on the opposing side of the board since the opponent will either have to lose tempo with casting spell to remove it, equip a weapon and deal 5 damage to its face, or put a new minion which can be removed with no durability loss again. Its best friend is certainly Shadowblade, they curve out nicely, and with its help having a basically at least 3/3 that doesn't lose you health on the first hit is amazing. I find Runeforge Haunter a great card that is yet to see its glory days with future expansions.
Shadowblade - Certainly a weapon that we all have been waiting for. Besides protecting your face on the first hit and its good stats it is also quite synergistic with Doomerang which can deal 3 damage + buffs applied and get it back to you hand so you can reequip it and hit again with no health lost. With it, you can basically have 4 Shadowblades in your hand. If you need that extra 1 damage, you can use it with your basic weapon which can be reequipped for only 1 mana and used for combo/miracle feeding. Certainly not a card to build a deck around, but a fine addition for fending off early and mid game aggression.
Roll the Bones - I lost a couple of days trying to make this card worthwhile in a deck, but it's just not. I tried decks from 15-28 deathrattles, besides the decks usually ending as an anti synergistic mess, Lord RNGesus fill almost always screw with drawing just one card if you're not full of deathrattles. I even tried a full deathrattle deck with low cost minions and N'Zoth, and while you can spam a full board every turn, one or two board clears are enough to bring your game to an end. N'Zoth bringing back a board of 2-3 drops on turn 10 is not of much use too, you'll agree. Works well against Pirate Warriors though. If you really need a card draw for 2 mana, Shiv is a much better choice. Maybe some future card that may provide some more synergy will make this card shine.
Bone Baron - I must say that i'm surprised by this card, and decided to drop Azure Drakes in the Miracle build for 2 x Bone Baron. Sure, Drakes bring that +1 spell damage that can be essential sometimes and draw you a card, but nowadays a 4/4 for 5 mana is just ridiculous. 5/5 is a massive body that simply must be responded to, plus it yields two skeletons that are excellent for comboing and buffing Edwin and Adventurers. I have no draw problem without Drakes, and the curve is awesome, Pillager on turn 4, 5/5 on turn five really puts the opponent on timer. If they choose to ignore it, they'll simply get smacked for 5 to the face. Not to mention that it really bring a lot to the Quest Rogue table and makes it close to being really good. If i must find it a drawback, it's the vulnerability to Shadow Word: Death, but even then, you get your skeleton dudes.
Plague Scientist - Though i was very excited about this card and the possibility of Rogue finally getting a complete board clear, things don't look so bright after testing. First of all, i'm quite baffled with the cost of 3 mana and the additional requirement of combo. 2 mana + combo, or 3 mana without combo with maybe 2/2 stats would be ok. With this cost, it can sometimes be very tricky to pull off the combo. Wild Pyromancer board clear that guarantees a board clear that can't be prevented will cost you 3 cards, and you will lose your Plague Scientist in the process. If you use Shadowstep, the process is cheaper and you will save the Plague Scientist for later, but you have to put in two Shadowsteps in the deck which are usually dead cards nowadays unless used with Leeroy Jenkins for finish. Unstable Ghoul and Sergeant Sally are also good combos, but can be prevented by transform spells or, in case of Sergeant Sally, simply hit face. Using it as a single target removal is usually not the best choice against aggro decks, and against heavier decks you already have a much better alternative in the form of Vilespine Slayer.
Leeching Poison - In theory, a good card. You buff your weapon, you deal damage, you get health back. Finally, healing for Rogue. Except it's not really like that. Besides you basic weapon being only 1/2 and only other usable weapon, Shadowblade, being 3/2, it's questionable if it's worth 5 mana for a 3/2 weapon and recuperate 6 health. Given the Rogue playstyle, it's usually not. Sure, you can extend its longevity with Runeforge Haunter, but it seems that it's never quite the moment to apply Leeching Poison to a weapon, there's always a better tempo play.
All in all, we got a mixed bag this time. I'm not quite sure about the direction where they want the Rogue to go, all of these thing steer towards controlish Rogue type, which i don't think is something that Rogue can excel in. After ten days of testing and shenanigans, all that i found out was that the Miracle is still the best deck to have around for Rogue, while Mill Rogue in Wild gets an honorable mention for destroying control decks.
What are your experiences?
Very interesting topic. Rogue is one of my favorite class and after KFT release I try to found some new way to play it, because I really hate mill rogue and miracle is pretty bad deck for me.
I would like to share my though for current state of the rogue and eventually find some new interesting way to play this class. So what we have right now in standard?
1) Miracle rogue: I have never found miracle too entertaining to play, because actually it depends on 1 single win condition without any other option of varying. Big minions which should come as soon as possible and smash into face, while we control the board for some time. It is not so awful, but if oponent have 2-3 clear for our 2 golems + Edwin, than this deck has absolutely no real comeback. Especially after conceal gone. Everyone know how annoying can be edwin 12/12 on turn 1 and how rogue concede after devolve/hex/polymorph/swd/execute/naturalize(not like someone use it).... ahhh wait? Everyone has counter for our best combo on turn 1-2-3, and than it is auto concede either for us or for our opponent. This is not a card game, this is just throwing coin who will win. Of course this is one of the few cases in miracle, but most of the time I feel like that. Protect your giants/protect edwin and hope to found path to the face. Honestly I see so rarely miracle rogues in the ladder and I think there is reason for that.
2) Jade Nzot rogue: I like playing death rattles, but this deck without healing is garbage. If you succeed to out tempo your opponent, you may win, but in most situation your hp will end before you reach you win condition. Not bad deck, but not really competitive.
And what we have for wild:
1) Mill rogue: I hate playing this deck because this is some annoying stupid deck, which don't really require so much thinking as hoping that players against us will not depend on spamming cards (as shaman) and we will have good luck with draw in order to burn our opponent deck? Meh.... Just constant vanish/shadow step cold oracle/sap spam. If our cards came good, than we will win, if no, than we lose. I would actually compare to exodia mage. I really hate decks which has only 1 single win condition without varying. Even agro deck doesn't depend only on 1 win condition. Lets take Agro druid. It depends on Vicious Fledgling, Hydra, Living Mana, Roar, tokens + buff and etc. I don't look only for the win, but I would like the path to reach it to be interesting and not same every day.
2) Reno-Nzot: Maybe this is my facourite deck. Jades + some burgling. For past month I am mainly playing wild deck with reno + nzot, which I found to be the most competitive deck for rogue, because reno, really give us this amount of healing needed to survive in late game. While deathrattles minions was always fun for me to play, because it always give you good variate in the outcome of the battle. Sometime you may want to copy with raptor undercity huskler for extra random card, other time you want extra card draw or maybe additional jade? It is up to you. And burgling in the face of shaku, slashburglar and etc is awsome. For me burgling actually is one of the best mechanics in the game, because they give you this small variate which make game to feel different every time you play. But after Reno is gone, what should we do in standard?
3) Aggresive murlock/pirate deck: I like to play aggresive murlock/pirate/leeroy rogue before the year of the mammoth. It was more fun to me than miracle, because it wasn't dependent on 1-2 big minions which if die, game over. And it had ability to comeback 1-2 board clear. But it is gone to wild as well. If I am correct it was called water rogue or something like that maybe. I haven't seen this deck since march, when silent knight go in wild.
And few more words for conclusion and what I think for KFT:
In general it seems that KFT gave us some good card. I agree with Oshigawa about his opininion.
Valeera the Hollow - not bad idea, too expensive. It is just impossible to use her at full potential on turn 9 when we skip whole turn to put it on board and she give us almost no tempo on the same turn or on the next turn. Stealth is awsome, but how the hell this is saving us? We will die not on the same turn, but on the next. The only way to play it is by having one free turn by our opponent, when we know that he can't put any pressure on board, which we can't clear. If it was 5 mana, maybe it would be good card, right now it really need something else in order to be really good. Not like I am not trying to use it, but in 80% of situation I feel like if I put it, I will die by losing board. It really gives me right now fear, that it would be waste of my turn more than actually help for my next turn. This is good control card maybe, but without healing... hell no.
Lilian Voss - real disappointment for me. I love burgling, but this is not playable just. I don't really see the situation where I would want to give up my spell and get something else. Normally this will be in situation where I am almost losing the game and I am desperate, but even after that most likely this is not the right moment for accumulating useless spell which should help you. Extra random card should not be on the cost when the game is almost lost, but in the middle of the game to put some random element which your opponent will not expect and for me actually this is the good rng in hearthstone.
All common/rare/epic card: really no card which make some good effect, which actually to say that we receive something new and useful to play.
In general I am pretty disappointed, because rogues doesn't really receive anything new to play. I understand , that they can't do every expansion strong for everyone, but in reality they just put some new average card, which I even cant imagine that will make any difference for the future. Ok shadowblade is good weapon, bone baron can give you some additional skeleton for combos, but thats all. For me the biggest miss was rogue DK, which should somehow add some new way for rogue to play/survive and was total miss, not because the idea behind it is bad, but because it is coming so late in the game, where you can't actually use it without losing tempo, and I don't see how rogue will ever come with losing tempo card effectively. And that actually is not rogue way to play. This may be the priest/mage/paladin/control warrior, but not rogue. Unfortunately we never see any buff from blizzard side and I think they will leave both DK and Lillian useless legendary. I really hope to be wrong, but right now I see it like this.
TL;DR: Do you have any idea for some fresh and new way to play KFT rogue with this two new legendaries? I would be more than happy to hear it.