Before wotog hunter was a little subpar with not face hunter but face hunter was still decent and was still common on ladder but since standard (rank 5 april, rank 15 area may) i have seen like 1 hunter and whenever i try hunter its just awful and can never win. How did a mid to upper tier class just vanish completely...or is my matchmaking just really fucking weird?
The only reason I am not playing hunter currently is not having call of the wild or proncess huhuran waiting for the pity timer to kick off and then I am crafting the princess if I don't get her..
People don't want to commit on hunter maybe.. That's why.. But the midrange deck is by no means weak.. It's one of the decks that totally crush C'thun decks with tempo.
I feel like a lot of people have decided to experiment with some of the new gimmicks and cards, so it's possible after the meta settles a bit more, there will be a new Hunter deck that tries to work its way up the ranks. In my opinion, I haven't noticed any really interesting Hunter cards (not to say there haven't been a few solid ones released with WoG), so that could have something to do with it.
I've tried tweaking a mid range/control style hunter which is OK but seems to be in a weird place. I think it's an OK deck and it's fun to play but it's not top tier at all probably tier 2/3. It hides in the shadows of tempo Deathrattle rogue and mid range evolve shaman.
I feel like a lot of people have decided to experiment with some of the new gimmicks and cards, so it's possible after the meta settles a bit more, there will be a new Hunter deck that tries to work its way up the ranks. In my opinion, I haven't noticed any really interesting Hunter cards (not to say there haven't been a few solid ones released with WoG), so that could have something to do with it.
This is my problem. I really love the idea behind a few of the cards like Infest, but I haven't been able to figure out how to make them work. As somebody above said, Deathrattle Hunter is just a poor second to Deathrattle Rogue right now. The best cards Hunter seems to have gotten are Infested Wolf and Call of the Wild; I haven't seen Princess Huhuran do anything amazing.
I don't see a lot of hunters on the ladder (but I'm low-ranked at the moment at least partly due to trying out all these fun new concepts). I'm enjoying with the Beast Hunter, but it's very inconsistent for me. I don't have Princess Huhuran, so I don't try to build around deathrattles. I think Infest and Call of the Wild are really strong cards. I like that I can dust off King Krush, Dreadscale and Tundra Rhino and get some value out of them instead of them being dead cards because if I don't win by turn 6 I auto-lose so I have to build this aggressive deck... However, when I see a C'Thun deck, I know I just have to go face. For old times' sake.
The early game sucks. Without scientist you don't really want to play secrets and without secrets you don't really want to play the bow. Instead you are playing a bunch of 2/1s and 3/2s. It means that if you start slowly you are going to get out tempo'd and you won't be able to finish them off. Maybe you need to play one bow and two traps and something like powershot. Midrage hunter has been in a wierd spot for a while now where it's getting squeezed from both sides of the spectrum.
Another thing to add to the pile: We're not at the point of refined deck lists yet. Some decks work very well unrefined (C'thun for example). Other decks really need to be balanaced REALLY well to actually work properly (old fatigue warrior and freeze mage are good examples). Note that the current decks are either easy to make with a few core cards or altered versions of older decks.
Face hunter actually wasn't very good, which is why the tournament scene dropped it at around TGT (at fastest they went hybrid hunter before eventually just giving up on the class all-together). They lost a good deal in the format/revamp and gained almost nothing in WoG. Consider them pretty much dead unless some crazy deck builder gets an idea about 1- 2 months from now.
Midrange and/or deathrattle is hunter's best shot, but the old archetypes aren't good enough to use as a base and they aren't easy to just brew up and make. Without scientist, should it even run secrets? Should it rely more on deathrattle and stickiness or try to make their removal cards work? What's its win condition?
Before you say Call of the Wild..well. I just played a Midrang ehunter vs my C'thun Druid. At turn 8 they dropped CotW and presented a strong board against my single minion. I shrugged, dropped a 20/20 C'thun (I had 10 mana of course :P), wiped his board and left him at 2 health. In a world of 20-40 random spell Yoggs, 12/12 dragons that summon 2-4 dragons when it dies, board clearing (or game ending) c'thuns, board filling N'zoths, and preists/warriors with a ton of board clears, doing 5 damage charge while having a 4 health taunt isn't THAT impressive. yes, having that WITH a strong board is, but how do you GET to that point? The point is that it's a great card, but it's NOT a win condition by itself.
This doesn't mean hunter is bad...yet. Just that it's not something you're going to figure out after 1 week into the expansion. They need refinement. They also need the old gods to stop stealing the air from the deck building environment in order to be focused on.
You only need a Hunter's Mark + weak minion to get rid of it... Just play 2 Hunter's Marks, I feel the meta makes it more viable...
I THINK his point, once you get past the salt, is less "You can't beat that" and more of "Why play something else when you can play this?"
The idea is that if you want an aggro deck, instead of messing around with hunter, you could just go shaman with their 4 mana 7/7. There's nothing that other decks can offer that works better than shaman... as the theory goes.
I have played a bit of Shaman and a bit of Hunter recently and I feel like there's a good deal of people out there with board clearing spells and single target removal for big threats (I guess it's probably always been like that though). Nearly every game VS Priest, my Flamewreathed Faceless has been Power Word: Death-ed before I could even swing it. Then I'm just left with two locked mana crystals for my efforts. Once it even happened twice in the same game (yeah, I keep falling for the same thing, but how can you not try it, it's 4 mana 7/7!).
I have found that the Hunter deathrattle minions give a little more value in terms of dealing with board clears and trading up on bigger minions with or without Hunter's Mark. Shaman takes a bit of luck and familiarity with the deck to get around some of the easy answers to it, while I feel like Hunter may have a little more staying power. This is all just from my limited experience.
thank god, was bored of facing face hunters all the time in the previous meta.
Same with aggro decks all over, less of them now and its great to see the more competitive tangle between all the types of decks; aggro, tempo, midrange and control decks to see who wins a game.
Aggro has lost just enough to still win against the other type of decks if played well, while control has still got to be smart in the early game to overcome an aggro deck
Hunter has been way subpar for a long time now not just a little subpar. People simply continued playing Hunter in LoE because it was still a cheap deck to play; but, it was hardly tier 1 aggro.
With the loss of Mad Scientist, Face Hunter was hit extremely hard. Mad Scientist is literally the entire Face Hunter deck. Mad Scientist was one of the only means for Face Hunter to cheat in value. More importantly, it worked very well with Eaglehorn Bow, which was a very important source of face damage.
No Mad Scientist means no Hunter value and Hunter had already been finding itself with an empty hand too often. Furthermore, the loss of Mad Scientist made Hunter secrets no longer viable options for the deck. This reduced a significant amount of face damage from Eaglehorn Bow and puts into question the entire card's viability.
Finally, the nerfs hit Hunter more than other decks. Hunter really relied on Leper Gnome and Ironbeak Owl more than other Aggro decks.
ETA: Actually, many Aggro decks died/struggled with WoG; but, some found new answers. Eboladin, in its traditional sense, is completely dead; but, now we have Divine Shield Paladin, which is also Aggro but uses a lot of different cards. Zoo lucked out with Darkshire Councilman and Forbidden Ritual combo. Hunter simply never found a miracle combo to make Face work.
I have been playing around with a Reno/N'Zoth hunter list and have had reasonable success. Still refining the decklist. Deck does well against slower decks, but needs a good curve start against aggro. All in all I see potential. I think it will do really well against lower ranks. I am only at 15 this season as I have been experimenting a bit, and at higher ranks its all zoo and shaman.
Before wotog hunter was a little subpar with not face hunter but face hunter was still decent and was still common on ladder but since standard (rank 5 april, rank 15 area may) i have seen like 1 hunter and whenever i try hunter its just awful and can never win. How did a mid to upper tier class just vanish completely...or is my matchmaking just really fucking weird?
he no go face no more
Because everybody waiting for that one person to have a really top tier Hunter deck.
The only reason I am not playing hunter currently is not having call of the wild or proncess huhuran waiting for the pity timer to kick off and then I am crafting the princess if I don't get her..
People don't want to commit on hunter maybe.. That's why.. But the midrange deck is by no means weak.. It's one of the decks that totally crush C'thun decks with tempo.
I feel like a lot of people have decided to experiment with some of the new gimmicks and cards, so it's possible after the meta settles a bit more, there will be a new Hunter deck that tries to work its way up the ranks. In my opinion, I haven't noticed any really interesting Hunter cards (not to say there haven't been a few solid ones released with WoG), so that could have something to do with it.
I've tried tweaking a mid range/control style hunter which is OK but seems to be in a weird place. I think it's an OK deck and it's fun to play but it's not top tier at all probably tier 2/3. It hides in the shadows of tempo Deathrattle rogue and mid range evolve shaman.
Midrange beast hunter is provably the best hunter deck available. You provably just don't see as many hunter decks anymore because of facehunter nerf.
I didn't have a signature so Flux added one for me.
I don't see a lot of hunters on the ladder (but I'm low-ranked at the moment at least partly due to trying out all these fun new concepts). I'm enjoying with the Beast Hunter, but it's very inconsistent for me. I don't have Princess Huhuran, so I don't try to build around deathrattles. I think Infest and Call of the Wild are really strong cards. I like that I can dust off King Krush, Dreadscale and Tundra Rhino and get some value out of them instead of them being dead cards because if I don't win by turn 6 I auto-lose so I have to build this aggressive deck... However, when I see a C'Thun deck, I know I just have to go face. For old times' sake.
I play for fun. I don't rank very high.
The early game sucks. Without scientist you don't really want to play secrets and without secrets you don't really want to play the bow. Instead you are playing a bunch of 2/1s and 3/2s. It means that if you start slowly you are going to get out tempo'd and you won't be able to finish them off. Maybe you need to play one bow and two traps and something like powershot. Midrage hunter has been in a wierd spot for a while now where it's getting squeezed from both sides of the spectrum.
You are not prepared!
Another thing to add to the pile: We're not at the point of refined deck lists yet. Some decks work very well unrefined (C'thun for example). Other decks really need to be balanaced REALLY well to actually work properly (old fatigue warrior and freeze mage are good examples). Note that the current decks are either easy to make with a few core cards or altered versions of older decks.
Face hunter actually wasn't very good, which is why the tournament scene dropped it at around TGT (at fastest they went hybrid hunter before eventually just giving up on the class all-together). They lost a good deal in the format/revamp and gained almost nothing in WoG. Consider them pretty much dead unless some crazy deck builder gets an idea about 1- 2 months from now.
Midrange and/or deathrattle is hunter's best shot, but the old archetypes aren't good enough to use as a base and they aren't easy to just brew up and make. Without scientist, should it even run secrets? Should it rely more on deathrattle and stickiness or try to make their removal cards work? What's its win condition?
Before you say Call of the Wild..well. I just played a Midrang ehunter vs my C'thun Druid. At turn 8 they dropped CotW and presented a strong board against my single minion. I shrugged, dropped a 20/20 C'thun (I had 10 mana of course :P), wiped his board and left him at 2 health. In a world of 20-40 random spell Yoggs, 12/12 dragons that summon 2-4 dragons when it dies, board clearing (or game ending) c'thuns, board filling N'zoths, and preists/warriors with a ton of board clears, doing 5 damage charge while having a 4 health taunt isn't THAT impressive. yes, having that WITH a strong board is, but how do you GET to that point? The point is that it's a great card, but it's NOT a win condition by itself.
This doesn't mean hunter is bad...yet. Just that it's not something you're going to figure out after 1 week into the expansion. They need refinement. They also need the old gods to stop stealing the air from the deck building environment in order to be focused on.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
FOUR MANA SEVEN SEVEN
This is usually the answer to any other face deck being played. Thanks Ben Brode.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
I have played a bit of Shaman and a bit of Hunter recently and I feel like there's a good deal of people out there with board clearing spells and single target removal for big threats (I guess it's probably always been like that though). Nearly every game VS Priest, my Flamewreathed Faceless has been Power Word: Death-ed before I could even swing it. Then I'm just left with two locked mana crystals for my efforts. Once it even happened twice in the same game (yeah, I keep falling for the same thing, but how can you not try it, it's 4 mana 7/7!).
I have found that the Hunter deathrattle minions give a little more value in terms of dealing with board clears and trading up on bigger minions with or without Hunter's Mark. Shaman takes a bit of luck and familiarity with the deck to get around some of the easy answers to it, while I feel like Hunter may have a little more staying power. This is all just from my limited experience.
thank god, was bored of facing face hunters all the time in the previous meta.
Same with aggro decks all over, less of them now and its great to see the more competitive tangle between all the types of decks; aggro, tempo, midrange and control decks to see who wins a game.
Aggro has lost just enough to still win against the other type of decks if played well, while control has still got to be smart in the early game to overcome an aggro deck
OMG I JUST BEAT AN AGGRO SHAMAN!!!!
Taunts happened.
"what happened to hunter?" right-click my signature, open image in a new window.
need take time to make new pic and signature using the new cards.
Always go face !!!!!
Yogg-Saron, Hope's End
sooo... which of those faces is the place?? D:
Hunter has been way subpar for a long time now not just a little subpar. People simply continued playing Hunter in LoE because it was still a cheap deck to play; but, it was hardly tier 1 aggro.
With the loss of Mad Scientist, Face Hunter was hit extremely hard. Mad Scientist is literally the entire Face Hunter deck. Mad Scientist was one of the only means for Face Hunter to cheat in value. More importantly, it worked very well with Eaglehorn Bow, which was a very important source of face damage.
No Mad Scientist means no Hunter value and Hunter had already been finding itself with an empty hand too often. Furthermore, the loss of Mad Scientist made Hunter secrets no longer viable options for the deck. This reduced a significant amount of face damage from Eaglehorn Bow and puts into question the entire card's viability.
Finally, the nerfs hit Hunter more than other decks. Hunter really relied on Leper Gnome and Ironbeak Owl more than other Aggro decks.
ETA: Actually, many Aggro decks died/struggled with WoG; but, some found new answers. Eboladin, in its traditional sense, is completely dead; but, now we have Divine Shield Paladin, which is also Aggro but uses a lot of different cards. Zoo lucked out with Darkshire Councilman and Forbidden Ritual combo. Hunter simply never found a miracle combo to make Face work.
I have been playing around with a Reno/N'Zoth hunter list and have had reasonable success. Still refining the decklist. Deck does well against slower decks, but needs a good curve start against aggro. All in all I see potential. I think it will do really well against lower ranks. I am only at 15 this season as I have been experimenting a bit, and at higher ranks its all zoo and shaman.