At this point I am seriously finding myself wishing that someone who had a remotely decent vision for the direction of Hearthstone would take over.
Between saying that adding RNG adds skill to the game and the absolutely pathetic job the Blizzard team has done with card fixing, I am really losing my drive to play this game. I have put in so much time, multiple seasons of Legend and 6/9 heroes at Gold, over 5000 wins in Ranked alone. But good fucking god, pay attention to what is actually going on.
A month ago I would have been on the "nerf Patron into oblivion" crowd. I hated that deck more than anything. I still think it's dumb. But the deck was no longer an issue on ladder. Dragon priest wrecks it, for instance. Meanwhile, Paladin has about 4 Tier 1 decks, and you can't mulligan against Pally anymore because you have no idea which of the equally viable and overpowered versions you are playing against. On top of having a card so broken in aggro it's not even funny (Divine Favor for those who have a hard time following, aggro should NEVER have OP card draw because it's the only thing keeping decks like that in check), they also have the most mindless and overpowered piece of shit that has ever hit this game (Mysterious Challenger). And clearly one of the best legends in the game (Tirion). The universal consensus is that MC into Dr. Boom into Tirion is completely unbeatable by any class, and that happens a decent amount of games.
So what's the solution? Let's nerf Warsong into oblivion and completely eliminate an archetype. Let's not fix this one card and keep a deck in the spotlight but much more reasonable (Berserker was the real problem card in the deck with Warsong anyways), let's not say "Your minions with 3 or less attack have charge," let's just say fuck this and make ladder go from 80% Paladin to 90% Paladin. Good fucking god.
I get that it helps the tournament scene, which became "Patron, deck that counters Patron, deck that counters deck that counter Patron." But ladder is continually becoming more and more Paladin dominant, and most classes just don't have the early game tools to deal with Paladin. And if they do, then they lose ground midgame to insane cards like Quartermaster, Murloc Knight, and MC. Oh you survived ALL of those threats? K cool here's Tirion, and then Lay on Hands to refuel while you are running out of resources dealing with all my bullshit. Ladder is becoming a fucking twisted nightmare of Paladin, and unlike decks in the past that were dominant, there are NO hard counters to Paladin.
Can someone who actually plays the game seriously be put in charge of development? Patron is VERY clearly not the monster it was pre-TGT, so why the fuck wait to nerf it until it ISN'T a problem? Good fucking god.
Public Mod Note
(TheSithCode):
Thread title changed. Disagreeing is fine. Insulting is not.
Men it's kinda aanoying my favorite class since it was an underdog pre tgt is now mainstream to disgusting level.. I was tired of losing to secret paladin so instead of crafting lord jaraxxus used 900 dust for 2* challenger + competitive spirit.
Damn this deck is so disgusting but I play to win.. Well it's also fun a bit prefer malhlock though.
I have to agree with you here, patron was not the problem. Because now palladin will be the OP class, and as soon as the nerf comes in people will start bitching the exact same amount about palladin and we are in the same position as we were before.
Blizzard has a notorious record of bad balancing with most of their games, most of times it's just a fase and it will pass. Don't like the way ladder functions at the moment? Play some arena or a different game. Gaming is supposed to be fun and it has no use sitting behind your desk being angry about some card on the internet being changed.
Also it wouldn't mind if you just would sit down and take a breather.
They haven't nerfed Patron warrior for sales purposes. Other then that don't go around calling people idiots, it just makes your points weaker and makes you look like an asshole.
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If you look closely, you can see this is a signature and not a comment. Why are you reading? Stop reading this. Did you read this too? Dang you must like reading.
I agree with you. To me, Grim Patron with Warsong Commander were not OP at all. You have a board of 3/x with x <= 3. The opponent can react during the next turn. But the combo Frothing Berserker with Warsong Commander was so boring and stupidly overpowered. I have been in the situation of knowing what the warrior will do to OTK me without having anything to counter it so many times. I totally agree with you that Warsong commander should have read "Your minions with 3 or less attack have charge" and I think many of the hearthpwn readers had the same idea.
Kripparian once said that Blizzard does not give a fuck of the ideas of the community and this nerf proves that it's real.
Even though you could have worded it different I have to agree with:
Warsong Commander wasn't the problem, Frothing Berserker was; they should have changed the mechanic that as soon as a minion gets over 3 attack it loses the charge. Even with the nerf now they could atleast drop the mana cost of Warsong Commander to 2. A 2/3 minion that gives your charged minions +1 attack doesn't seem OP to me at 2 mana
Paladin is becoming a problem, the amount of threats they have is too damn high. On top of that, unlike against Mage & Hunter you cannot play around it's secrets as well since Competitive Spirit puts you on a timer & Noble Sacrifice makes sure Avenge triggers. Personally I would love to see the Light's Justice disappear from Muster for Battle and see Mysterious Challenger's stats lowered to 5/4.
I actually think it's ok that you cannot reliably mulligan against a class tho. I mean, I would like to see each class have atleast 2 different archetype decks (wishful thinking maybe). Till now it was mostly Warlock which was very hard to mulligan seeing as the two most popular decktypes a while ago were zoo and handlock which required a totally different mulligan from your part.
I agree with you. To me, Grim Patron with Warsong Commander were not OP at all. You have a board of 3/x with x <= 3. The opponent can react during the next turn. But the combo Frothing Berserker with Warsong Commander was so boring and stupidly overpowered. I have been in the situation of knowing what the warrior will do to OTK me without having anything to counter it so many times. I totally agree with you that Warsong commander should have read "Your minions with 3 or less attack have charge" and I think many of the hearthpwn readers had the same idea.
Kripparian once said that Blizzard does not give a fuck of the ideas of the community and this nerf proves that it's real.
This has become painfully obvious. Is it really that much to ask to listen to the millions of people that patronize your game for even a LITTLE input? I guess if your sole goal is making money. I hated Patron with an absolute passion, but the way this has been dealt with may end up being the final straw for me just selling my account. This is getting really old and I'm tired of supporting a company that cares so little about its playerbase and pays so little attention to the problems with their game. Seems like it's about time to get a better paying job and pick up MTG again.
The "design space" argument is valid, warsong had the potential to break many other cards as well.
However, I like the nerf because I am sick and tired of patrons in tournamnets! It has been regarded the no. 1 deck for too long already there. Combo-druid should be nerfed next( savage roar only on minions?), then maybe paladin-but pallys have never been this strong before. I guess its time for them to have some months in the sun.
Men it's kinda aanoying my favorite class since it was an underdog pre tgt is now mainstream to disgusting level.. I was tired of losing to secret paladin so instead of crafting lord jaraxxus used 900 dust for 2* challenger + competitive spirit.
Damn this deck is so disgusting but I play to win.. Well it's also fun a bit prefer malhlock though.
I just want to say that you shouldn't feel bad about it and that it's great for all the paladin players out there.
It's not the problem that paladin has so many top tier decks but that other classes don't. Many rogue players (including myself) complain on either not getting any good cards over any expansion so far or not getting cards that synergize in a consistent way much like paladin cards+hero power (only thing they got so far is Oil). Or shamans complain that their cards are overpriced compared to other classes (which is true) but I feel that the shaman players haven't explored the new card potential enough to say that their class is worse than before (that x2 Bloodlust deck from Mr. Yagut is awesome; he reached legend no. 3 with it and he's suggesting that you can reach legend with it).
So, don't feel bad that your favorite class has many viable archetypes. Some of us just want the same for our favorite classes as well.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact'
"In the case of Warsong Commander, we felt this change was necessary to help expand both future design space and to stand by our overarching game philosophy that battles between minions and fighting for board control is what makes Hearthstone fun and compelling."
Emphasis mine.
You don't know what they have planned for the future. Seeing Patron die is unfortunate, but we currently have no idea what avenues are open to them as developers now that Warsong has been changed.
"In the case of Warsong Commander, we felt this change was necessary to help expand both future design space and to stand by our overarching game philosophy that battles between minions and fighting for board control is what makes Hearthstone fun and compelling."
Emphasis mine.
You don't know what they have planned for the future. Seeing Patron die is unfortunate, but we currently have no idea what avenues are open to them as developers now that Warsong has been changed.
Props for changing the title. I wanted to agree with the OP of this thread but his title didn't encourage me to
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact'
Honestly, I do not think Patron decks will die. But they will chance, since it's a big blow in the archtype. But it is sad. This deck, although being powerful, is no OP. There are lots of ways to play around that combo.
What pisses me is that they manage to seriously nerf a good adventure card by nerfing another tool. And the fact that lots of people that cried for the nerfbat are now saying that it was too much.
I want to play Patron Warrior for the rest of the season as a protest but I don't know how (but I do have the cards).
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"Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come."
Warsong Commander needed to be nerfed BUT they need to exercise some basic, grade-school level common sense. If you're going to nerf a card so far into the ground that it's no longer going to be played for its ability...shouldn't you at least give it a decent stat line in return?
Ahahahaha, the very week i quit this game they make yet another utterly game-changing, card-obliterating, heavy-handed nerf to a problem 6 months old. UTH and Eaglehorn Bow are the only two things they've done right and I now believe those to be accidents.
#ZeroRegrets
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At this point I am seriously finding myself wishing that someone who had a remotely decent vision for the direction of Hearthstone would take over.
Between saying that adding RNG adds skill to the game and the absolutely pathetic job the Blizzard team has done with card fixing, I am really losing my drive to play this game. I have put in so much time, multiple seasons of Legend and 6/9 heroes at Gold, over 5000 wins in Ranked alone. But good fucking god, pay attention to what is actually going on.
A month ago I would have been on the "nerf Patron into oblivion" crowd. I hated that deck more than anything. I still think it's dumb. But the deck was no longer an issue on ladder. Dragon priest wrecks it, for instance. Meanwhile, Paladin has about 4 Tier 1 decks, and you can't mulligan against Pally anymore because you have no idea which of the equally viable and overpowered versions you are playing against. On top of having a card so broken in aggro it's not even funny (Divine Favor for those who have a hard time following, aggro should NEVER have OP card draw because it's the only thing keeping decks like that in check), they also have the most mindless and overpowered piece of shit that has ever hit this game (Mysterious Challenger). And clearly one of the best legends in the game (Tirion). The universal consensus is that MC into Dr. Boom into Tirion is completely unbeatable by any class, and that happens a decent amount of games.
So what's the solution? Let's nerf Warsong into oblivion and completely eliminate an archetype. Let's not fix this one card and keep a deck in the spotlight but much more reasonable (Berserker was the real problem card in the deck with Warsong anyways), let's not say "Your minions with 3 or less attack have charge," let's just say fuck this and make ladder go from 80% Paladin to 90% Paladin. Good fucking god.
I get that it helps the tournament scene, which became "Patron, deck that counters Patron, deck that counters deck that counter Patron." But ladder is continually becoming more and more Paladin dominant, and most classes just don't have the early game tools to deal with Paladin. And if they do, then they lose ground midgame to insane cards like Quartermaster, Murloc Knight, and MC. Oh you survived ALL of those threats? K cool here's Tirion, and then Lay on Hands to refuel while you are running out of resources dealing with all my bullshit. Ladder is becoming a fucking twisted nightmare of Paladin, and unlike decks in the past that were dominant, there are NO hard counters to Paladin.
Can someone who actually plays the game seriously be put in charge of development? Patron is VERY clearly not the monster it was pre-TGT, so why the fuck wait to nerf it until it ISN'T a problem? Good fucking god.
Greetings.
Men it's kinda aanoying my favorite class since it was an underdog pre tgt is now mainstream to disgusting level.. I was tired of losing to secret paladin so instead of crafting lord jaraxxus used 900 dust for 2* challenger + competitive spirit.
Damn this deck is so disgusting but I play to win.. Well it's also fun a bit prefer malhlock though.
I have to agree with you here, patron was not the problem. Because now palladin will be the OP class, and as soon as the nerf comes in people will start bitching the exact same amount about palladin and we are in the same position as we were before.
Blizzard has a notorious record of bad balancing with most of their games, most of times it's just a fase and it will pass. Don't like the way ladder functions at the moment? Play some arena or a different game. Gaming is supposed to be fun and it has no use sitting behind your desk being angry about some card on the internet being changed.
Also it wouldn't mind if you just would sit down and take a breather.
Currently playing control hunter.
They haven't nerfed Patron warrior for sales purposes. Other then that don't go around calling people idiots, it just makes your points weaker and makes you look like an asshole.
If you look closely, you can see this is a signature and not a comment. Why are you reading? Stop reading this. Did you read this too? Dang you must like reading.
I agree with you. To me, Grim Patron with Warsong Commander were not OP at all. You have a board of 3/x with x <= 3. The opponent can react during the next turn. But the combo Frothing Berserker with Warsong Commander was so boring and stupidly overpowered. I have been in the situation of knowing what the warrior will do to OTK me without having anything to counter it so many times. I totally agree with you that Warsong commander should have read "Your minions with 3 or less attack have charge" and I think many of the hearthpwn readers had the same idea.
Kripparian once said that Blizzard does not give a fuck of the ideas of the community and this nerf proves that it's real.
Not all who wander are lost.
#GoodFuckingGod
Nothing doing, traveler.
Even though you could have worded it different I have to agree with:
I actually think it's ok that you cannot reliably mulligan against a class tho. I mean, I would like to see each class have atleast 2 different archetype decks (wishful thinking maybe). Till now it was mostly Warlock which was very hard to mulligan seeing as the two most popular decktypes a while ago were zoo and handlock which required a totally different mulligan from your part.
This has become painfully obvious. Is it really that much to ask to listen to the millions of people that patronize your game for even a LITTLE input? I guess if your sole goal is making money. I hated Patron with an absolute passion, but the way this has been dealt with may end up being the final straw for me just selling my account. This is getting really old and I'm tired of supporting a company that cares so little about its playerbase and pays so little attention to the problems with their game. Seems like it's about time to get a better paying job and pick up MTG again.
Greetings.
The "design space" argument is valid, warsong had the potential to break many other cards as well.
However, I like the nerf because I am sick and tired of patrons in tournamnets! It has been regarded the no. 1 deck for too long already there. Combo-druid should be nerfed next( savage roar only on minions?), then maybe paladin-but pallys have never been this strong before. I guess its time for them to have some months in the sun.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Obviosly they operate for this scheme:
Release op card/deck - wait until players spend money to get that - nerf it - release new op, repeat and repeat.
Wait and see, cancer challenger will be nerfed in next expansion along with release new op card.
I just want to say that you shouldn't feel bad about it and that it's great for all the paladin players out there.
It's not the problem that paladin has so many top tier decks but that other classes don't. Many rogue players (including myself) complain on either not getting any good cards over any expansion so far or not getting cards that synergize in a consistent way much like paladin cards+hero power (only thing they got so far is Oil). Or shamans complain that their cards are overpriced compared to other classes (which is true) but I feel that the shaman players haven't explored the new card potential enough to say that their class is worse than before (that x2 Bloodlust deck from Mr. Yagut is awesome; he reached legend no. 3 with it and he's suggesting that you can reach legend with it).
So, don't feel bad that your favorite class has many viable archetypes. Some of us just want the same for our favorite classes as well.
'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact'
Sherlock Holmes
"In the case of Warsong Commander, we felt this change was necessary to help expand both future design space and to stand by our overarching game philosophy that battles between minions and fighting for board control is what makes Hearthstone fun and compelling."
Emphasis mine.
You don't know what they have planned for the future. Seeing Patron die is unfortunate, but we currently have no idea what avenues are open to them as developers now that Warsong has been changed.
Props for changing the title. I wanted to agree with the OP of this thread but his title didn't encourage me to
'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact'
Sherlock Holmes
I think he or the team did it so that Warsong Commander won't make another crazy combo deck in future expansions/adventures.
Though the nerf should have been to only give charge to minions with <3 attack and if it exceeds to >4 no charge is given
I solely believe they did these nerfs to not create problems in the future. That's just me though. you can rain all ur h8 to me now m8eys.
I h8 you :I
'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact'
Sherlock Holmes
Honestly, I do not think Patron decks will die. But they will chance, since it's a big blow in the archtype. But it is sad. This deck, although being powerful, is no OP. There are lots of ways to play around that combo.
What pisses me is that they manage to seriously nerf a good adventure card by nerfing another tool. And the fact that lots of people that cried for the nerfbat are now saying that it was too much.
I want to play Patron Warrior for the rest of the season as a protest but I don't know how (but I do have the cards).
"Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come."
Warsong Commander needed to be nerfed BUT they need to exercise some basic, grade-school level common sense. If you're going to nerf a card so far into the ground that it's no longer going to be played for its ability...shouldn't you at least give it a decent stat line in return?
Ahahahaha, the very week i quit this game they make yet another utterly game-changing, card-obliterating, heavy-handed nerf to a problem 6 months old. UTH and Eaglehorn Bow are the only two things they've done right and I now believe those to be accidents.
#ZeroRegrets