@OP - I have to absolutely agree with everything you got to say there. I don't mind the deck get balanced - in fact that is what makes the entire game fun and fair, but the way Blizzard deals with their issues is extremely frustrating. I have similar feeling towards the game because the "variety" that they're trying to promote is no where to be seen. TGT didn't bring much to the table, yet Brode claims that "it's the best thing Blizzard has done with HS to date". Yes, a lot of cards might have potential and become useful in the future, but how about instead of sleeper cards we get an actual set we can work with, and have some true innovation and diversity?
@TheSithCode - As much as I'd love to keep faith that their future design is going to be good, it doesn't give them an excuse to deal with problems so poorly. Besides, as a company with a very large player base they have to also think about the present and not only the future. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see more new content, but what state is the game going to be in now until next Adventure hits? And when it does hit - how many of 30-40 cards can we really expect to be playable, refresh the game and promote variety? And then we got close to a year until next Expansion.
On another note - Blizzard seems to be a little more active now their changes and accepting feedback (sadly, with a massive delay). So let's hope that they actually monitor the state of the game and are taking steps to make it better post TGT. Fingers crossed.
Hey guys, dont attack them for this one. It really is better for the overall health of the game. Even they made it so that its only 3 or less, lets say they release a 3 attack power windfury neutral minon. Using that 3 or less rule, 2 of these, and brew masters, you have a 30 damage combo. And if your playing an otk combo, which is what patron became, youd run emperor. So lets look at that, and think about what could be possible if the brews costed 0. So, drop warsong, drop windfury. 6. Drop winfury, 12, drop brewmasters, 18, drop the windfurys again, and thats 12 more. 30 damage in one turn without warning it was waiting in hand. What would be the most reasonable way to fix that? Remove the o in the otk. Gotta nerf the auto charge.
Honestly, I do not think Patron decks will die. But they will chance, since it's a big blow in the archtype. But it is sad. This deck, although being powerful, is no OP. There are lots of ways to play around that combo.
What pisses me is that they manage to seriously nerf a good adventure card by nerfing another tool. And the fact that lots of people that cried for the nerfbat are now saying that it was too much.
Have not laughed as much in days. IT IS DEAD! Remember how everyone laughed at this card on reveal? Because without charge this card doesn't do shit. There is no way you can use this card without warsong. Or have you seen ANY other deck use grim patron? No?
Also nerfing =/= destroying a card. Remember sylvanas on 5 mana? Remember UTH at 2 mana? Still played, still good. Remember Starving buzzard nerf? No one asked for a 5 mana 3/2. NO ONE! They did it anyway. And it sucks about as much as this nerf.
People wouldn't even consider trying anything else with patron because this combo was better in every possible way. Why would you thinker with, lets say, priest patron or mage patron if there was warsong commander around?
Now people will have to (not that I agree with the nerf)
Also, you could play without charge even in classic warrior deck, since there were people that would play it on t5 with Death's Bite deathrattle and still win the game.
It will be a thougher combo to pull, but the cards are still there and eventually people will figure out how to use it again. Heck, even Magma Rager got a deck nowadays. Why Patron wouldn't?
Phew.. No more patron. I can sleep in peace without hearing "Everyone get in here" echo....
Warsong Commander need to be nerfed anyway there is no easy way to do it. Other than totally killing it. A minion that has effect that give other minions charge can really be disastrous. On top of that the deck synchronise so well with a card that can multiply itself.
Though I have to agree that the nerf is way over the line. Making it like Tundra Rhino would have suffice. 5 mana with 2/5 stats. And keep its power which give minion charge that attack 3.
i feel you, the latest developments in the game have really made me question playing it for much longer, i'm fine with nerfing patron , but first of all this is removing that deck from the game, second the deck wasn't that much played, and third the most reliable tool to deal with all this insane amount of secret paladins was patron, now the flood of pallys will be even greater, which seems impossible because i'm facing an overwhelming amount of them already, but it's gonna happen. it seems blizzard wants the game to be flooded with decks that bots can play as good as players, auto cruise decks, just jam every shit you have and win game at least half the times.
But ladder is continually becoming more and more Paladin dominant, and most classes just don't have the early game tools to deal with Paladin. And if they do, then they lose ground midgame to insane cards like Quartermaster, Murloc Knight, and MC. Oh you survived ALL of those threats? K cool here's Tirion, and then Lay on Hands to refuel while you are running out of resources dealing with all my bullshit. Ladder is becoming a fucking twisted nightmare of Paladin, and unlike decks in the past that were dominant, there are NO hard counters to Paladin.
They should have looked at battle rage instead and also at divine favour. I can live with PW and secret/aggro pala's and their combo's as long as they are not able to draw so many cards. These decks should have some drawbacks, just like face hunter has no draws..
On a side note, darnassus aspirant is just as disgusting and unbalanced as well, removing the only weakness from a druid deck in removing it's inconsistency.
Agreed, Divine Favor is so broken in aggro decks it's infuriating that it has been ignored.
They killed the deck. I think a Frothing nerf would be enough and the way they changed Warsong Commander was uninspired and uncreative. I'm all for diversity but the Warsong changes can only result to one thing, Smorc Warrior. I'm not against face deck but we have enough aggro decks already.
Wild Pyromancer in priest answers the strong early game of paladins, Lightbomb in priest answers the Dr 6 -> Dr7 -> Dr 8.
Handlock is still capable of fighting against both aggro and midrange paladin quite effectively. The adjustment in playstyle of reserving moltens for shadow flame for massive board swings though is necessary.
Freeze mage can fight all of the different paladins relatively well.
And as to a class that is hard to mulligan against: Warlock. That already exists. Paladin can be fought. It may warp the crap out of the meta (which is usually reason for a nerf) but it can be fought against.
I'm currently having a field day against paladins with a mind blast OTK dragon priest. And I'm enjoying a 71% winrate with that. Paladin is strong yes... but unbeatable? not by a long shot.
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I am The Cripple Who Is Whole, and the loving creator of Dragon Lord Velen:
Rotation would solve all the problems. A constant changing format that encourages sales of the latest set to be competitive, and freeing up design space as the creators are no longer chained to older, more broken cards.
Wizards of the Coast figured this out over a decade ago. Guess Blizz would rather make the same mistakes of the past instead of learning from it.
Legacy, modern, and vintage all still exist. Blizzard doesn't need to change ranked play to rotate. If anything, the introduction of rotation would mean a second ranked ladder which does rotate in addition to the current ranked ladder which does not. Blizzard would just have to start balancing cards for both ladders, which is harder on them. Although being able to have two different ranks to worry about would be pretty fun. We would also need more deckslots for this change.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I am The Cripple Who Is Whole, and the loving creator of Dragon Lord Velen:
Rotation would solve all the problems. A constant changing format that encourages sales of the latest set to be competitive, and freeing up design space as the creators are no longer chained to older, more broken cards.
Wizards of the Coast figured this out over a decade ago. Guess Blizz would rather make the same mistakes of the past instead of learning from it.
With the amount of time and effort (or money) involved in getting the cards in this game it would kill the game to have set rotation. They would have to significantly increase the speed of at which people can acquire gold if they wanted the game to work with set rotation.
They are not making the same mistakes that you think they are making because Hearthstone is very different than magic. For example, Yugioh does not have set rotation and that game has been a strong player in the TCG world for over a decade as well, and Hearthstone is currently going down the same path that Yugioh has went.
If MC is to be nerfed, it's in 6 months, when people have lost interest in the deck.
I really don't know what is interesting in that deck. Hold 6 mana card with or without a coin. Play it, win. Even a retarded dog can play that deck. Different for patrons, witch i agree is over (bsek combo), but at least you have to think.
Rotation would solve all the problems. A constant changing format that encourages sales of the latest set to be competitive, and freeing up design space as the creators are no longer chained to older, more broken cards.
Wizards of the Coast figured this out over a decade ago. Guess Blizz would rather make the same mistakes of the past instead of learning from it.
They don't produce enough cards fast enough to support rotation in any meaningful way.
"In the case of Warsong Commander, we felt this change was necessary to help expand both future design space and to stand by our overarching game philosophy that battles between minions and fighting for board control is what makes Hearthstone fun and compelling."
Emphasis mine.
You don't know what they have planned for the future. Seeing Patron die is unfortunate, but we currently have no idea what avenues are open to them as developers now that Warsong has been changed.
yes but the future expansiona dventure is not immediate, while anyone with 3 fingers of a forehead can predict what hell we'll have after the patron nerf and before the expansion.
"In the case of Warsong Commander, we felt this change was necessary to help expand both future design space and to stand by our overarching game philosophy that battles between minions and fighting for board control is what makes Hearthstone fun and compelling."
Emphasis mine.
You don't know what they have planned for the future. Seeing Patron die is unfortunate, but we currently have no idea what avenues are open to them as developers now that Warsong has been changed.
Remember when Poisoned Blade was revealed, everyone said how thrash tier it was? There was a group of people who thought the reason for the bad stats was an upcoming rouge card, which would synergize with it, and higher stats would make it OP.
Well, that was wrong, and Poisoned Blade still bad. So I don't think that Blizzard will try to "open new avenues" with these changes, if they couldn't even make that rouge epic usable, in an inspire-themed expansion.
Strike!
Sadly I have to agree. TGT has been such a disappointment... I agree totally with someone else who said something like "we got a lot of sleeper cards instead of a lot of actively game-changing ones". Not only that, shaman and rogue are still the worst classes by far.
I'm not against the nerf, but it really feels like they've been waiting for god knows what to finally do the obvious.
I agree Patron was not a big deal anymore so their decision to nerf/kill it all of a sudden is weird. Instead they should balance aggro/secret Pally because this is what is being completely disgusting right now (mentioned Divine Favor). They will not do this anytime soon because 1. sales 2. they have no idea what they are doing anyway.
I'm nobody but I've been talking this for a long time in this forum: they don't know what they are doing. And this is sad. Kinda hopeless.
I just wished I had given less money to these fuckers.
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Always Squelch.
"Every time you beat an aggro deck, you make the world a better place". Kripp 2015
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@OP - I have to absolutely agree with everything you got to say there. I don't mind the deck get balanced - in fact that is what makes the entire game fun and fair, but the way Blizzard deals with their issues is extremely frustrating. I have similar feeling towards the game because the "variety" that they're trying to promote is no where to be seen. TGT didn't bring much to the table, yet Brode claims that "it's the best thing Blizzard has done with HS to date". Yes, a lot of cards might have potential and become useful in the future, but how about instead of sleeper cards we get an actual set we can work with, and have some true innovation and diversity?
@TheSithCode - As much as I'd love to keep faith that their future design is going to be good, it doesn't give them an excuse to deal with problems so poorly. Besides, as a company with a very large player base they have to also think about the present and not only the future. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see more new content, but what state is the game going to be in now until next Adventure hits? And when it does hit - how many of 30-40 cards can we really expect to be playable, refresh the game and promote variety? And then we got close to a year until next Expansion.
On another note - Blizzard seems to be a little more active now their changes and accepting feedback (sadly, with a massive delay). So let's hope that they actually monitor the state of the game and are taking steps to make it better post TGT. Fingers crossed.
Hey guys, dont attack them for this one. It really is better for the overall health of the game. Even they made it so that its only 3 or less, lets say they release a 3 attack power windfury neutral minon. Using that 3 or less rule, 2 of these, and brew masters, you have a 30 damage combo. And if your playing an otk combo, which is what patron became, youd run emperor. So lets look at that, and think about what could be possible if the brews costed 0. So, drop warsong, drop windfury. 6. Drop winfury, 12, drop brewmasters, 18, drop the windfurys again, and thats 12 more. 30 damage in one turn without warning it was waiting in hand. What would be the most reasonable way to fix that? Remove the o in the otk. Gotta nerf the auto charge.
Looks like there was some beer party at blizzard. You cant blame people for doing silly stuff when they are high.
People wouldn't even consider trying anything else with patron because this combo was better in every possible way. Why would you thinker with, lets say, priest patron or mage patron if there was warsong commander around?
Now people will have to (not that I agree with the nerf)
Also, you could play without charge even in classic warrior deck, since there were people that would play it on t5 with Death's Bite deathrattle and still win the game.
It will be a thougher combo to pull, but the cards are still there and eventually people will figure out how to use it again. Heck, even Magma Rager got a deck nowadays. Why Patron wouldn't?
I already found a solution: Me go face me no trade!
Phew.. No more patron. I can sleep in peace without hearing "Everyone get in here" echo....
Warsong Commander need to be nerfed anyway there is no easy way to do it. Other than totally killing it. A minion that has effect that give other minions charge can really be disastrous. On top of that the deck synchronise so well with a card that can multiply itself.
Though I have to agree that the nerf is way over the line. Making it like Tundra Rhino would have suffice. 5 mana with 2/5 stats. And keep its power which give minion charge that attack 3.
i feel you, the latest developments in the game have really made me question playing it for much longer, i'm fine with nerfing patron , but first of all this is removing that deck from the game, second the deck wasn't that much played, and third the most reliable tool to deal with all this insane amount of secret paladins was patron, now the flood of pallys will be even greater, which seems impossible because i'm facing an overwhelming amount of them already, but it's gonna happen. it seems blizzard wants the game to be flooded with decks that bots can play as good as players, auto cruise decks, just jam every shit you have and win game at least half the times.
Amen Brother.
Zalae will remain a legend forever then.
Agreed, Divine Favor is so broken in aggro decks it's infuriating that it has been ignored.
Greetings.
They killed the deck. I think a Frothing nerf would be enough and the way they changed Warsong Commander was uninspired and uncreative. I'm all for diversity but the Warsong changes can only result to one thing, Smorc Warrior. I'm not against face deck but we have enough aggro decks already.
Paladin is not without counters.
Wild Pyromancer in priest answers the strong early game of paladins, Lightbomb in priest answers the Dr 6 -> Dr7 -> Dr 8.
Handlock is still capable of fighting against both aggro and midrange paladin quite effectively. The adjustment in playstyle of reserving moltens for shadow flame for massive board swings though is necessary.
Freeze mage can fight all of the different paladins relatively well.
And as to a class that is hard to mulligan against: Warlock. That already exists. Paladin can be fought. It may warp the crap out of the meta (which is usually reason for a nerf) but it can be fought against.
I'm currently having a field day against paladins with a mind blast OTK dragon priest. And I'm enjoying a 71% winrate with that. Paladin is strong yes... but unbeatable? not by a long shot.
I am The Cripple Who Is Whole, and the loving creator of Dragon Lord Velen:
Rotation would solve all the problems. A constant changing format that encourages sales of the latest set to be competitive, and freeing up design space as the creators are no longer chained to older, more broken cards.
Wizards of the Coast figured this out over a decade ago. Guess Blizz would rather make the same mistakes of the past instead of learning from it.
Legacy, modern, and vintage all still exist. Blizzard doesn't need to change ranked play to rotate. If anything, the introduction of rotation would mean a second ranked ladder which does rotate in addition to the current ranked ladder which does not. Blizzard would just have to start balancing cards for both ladders, which is harder on them. Although being able to have two different ranks to worry about would be pretty fun. We would also need more deckslots for this change.
I am The Cripple Who Is Whole, and the loving creator of Dragon Lord Velen:
With the amount of time and effort (or money) involved in getting the cards in this game it would kill the game to have set rotation. They would have to significantly increase the speed of at which people can acquire gold if they wanted the game to work with set rotation.
They are not making the same mistakes that you think they are making because Hearthstone is very different than magic. For example, Yugioh does not have set rotation and that game has been a strong player in the TCG world for over a decade as well, and Hearthstone is currently going down the same path that Yugioh has went.
I really don't know what is interesting in that deck. Hold 6 mana card with or without a coin. Play it, win. Even a retarded dog can play that deck. Different for patrons, witch i agree is over (bsek combo), but at least you have to think.
They don't produce enough cards fast enough to support rotation in any meaningful way.
Balancing busted cards version 1.0.
yes but the future expansiona dventure is not immediate, while anyone with 3 fingers of a forehead can predict what hell we'll have after the patron nerf and before the expansion.
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Strike!
Sadly I have to agree. TGT has been such a disappointment... I agree totally with someone else who said something like "we got a lot of sleeper cards instead of a lot of actively game-changing ones". Not only that, shaman and rogue are still the worst classes by far.
I'm not against the nerf, but it really feels like they've been waiting for god knows what to finally do the obvious.
I'm nobody but I've been talking this for a long time in this forum: they don't know what they are doing. And this is sad. Kinda hopeless.
I just wished I had given less money to these fuckers.
Always Squelch.
"Every time you beat an aggro deck, you make the world a better place". Kripp 2015