I, not sure it would matter much. Quest warrior is an aggro deck, and the juggernaut is something of a win more piece most of the time. But I like interactive things.
Its kinda bad when you start your post with ramp druid , forcing aggro , which can be beat by control but what does control do vs ramp druid ...
Shows how little you know or even care about the rock paper scissor aspect of HS , 1 deck cant beat them all ...Otherwise i wouldve read further but that just irked me enough to simply stop and reply right away , because if anything , the rest was base on the false concept that what beats aggro should also beat ramp druid ...
Everyone knows this but ramp druid is good against everything with cards like earthen scales and miracle growth taunts. But you made your silly comment before reading so I can’t blame you.
The only deck(s) druid can lose to are highroll aggression. The fact that a normal curve from board decks get shut down so easily by scale and miracle growth+scales is disgusting.
Token dh is a bad deck in essence (concede after one board clear) but thats the only deck having success vs druids.
Not to mention druid still has a very strong aggro archetype of its own waiting in the wings. Druid can beat control, as it always has. But Kazakusan is stupid in this class because of the mana difference. Kaz should have a stricter dragon condition. Aggro and midrange decks used to have a chance vs clown druid, this ones just a wrap. Lets have druid roll over to aggro at least?
yeah Pirate Warrior while still beatable should be slightly slowed down. But the Matchups are kinda boring and the luckfactor is to high.
Mechashark is to strong for a card. It all depends if the mage can summon that card more often. But at least you can use your Deck against Mage which is great.
But the most problem is Druid. The Meta seems like be faster than pirate Warrior and a lot faster because of Druid.
I'll like to use all the new cards and make some funny decks but Druid and Warrior forces to use mega fast Decks :(
Before finding ramp for druid was no easy task. Now with Aquatic Form and Moonlit Guidance its a joke how consistently they play Guff or Nourish on curve.
Aquatic Form to 1 mana Jerry-Rigged Carpenter to 3 mana 2/2
Moonlit Guidance to 3 mana
Guff to 6 mana
Oracle of Elune limited to the first minion summoned each turn.
Earthen Scales to 2 mana.
Priest:
Switcheroo to swap only the health of both minions.
Warrior
Defias Cannoneer to 4 mana
Juggernaut can only summon minions and weapons that cost (5) or less.
Warrior Quest to 3/3/3 pirates.
Hunter
Net only counts as one spell for quest. Not two. Hunter quest probably could be 2/2/4 too. It's a little fast for the meta.
Mage
Sea Gateway to 4 mana
Gaia only hits minions
Paladin
Radar to 4 mana Bubble Bot to 5 mana 3/3 Leviathan to 8 mana
Rogue
Swordfish to only gain 1 attack.
Neutral
Kazakusan requires you to have a dragon in your hand in order to use his effect.
I think these are pretty fair. Druid sounds like a lot, but I think Druid can take a lot. I dunno what to hit in Demon Hunter.
Half of these nerfs are targetting decks that need no nerf (mech pally? Really?), what is your reasoning, if any deck does something strong = nerf it? Very confusing.
Only agree with Earthen Scales, Switcheroo and Cannoneer getting a hit, everything else should be fine.
I think what the game needs more is buffs. Warlock and Priest are in a very miserable state, they simply cant do anything better than anyone, and I dont think nerfing the other classes will change that.
Half of these nerfs are targetting decks that need no nerf (mech pally? Really?)
Mech pally is broken as hell. It's way better than mech mage. Radar drawing 3-4 cards on average for 2 mana is ridiculous. Leviathan wins games on it's own in tempo match-ups. How does somebody catch up to someone who puts 8 mana of stats in minions on the board and does 8 damage to the enemy while developing their hand? Bubble Bot is also insane with buffed paladin minions.
The druid nerfs completely take the edge off of a deck that is way too efficient. Aquatic Form and Moonlit Guidance have no business being as cheap as they are. They're actually balanced at 1 mana and 3 mana respectively.
Swordfish as a 3 mana 4/3 is crazy too. It's not as big an issue as other things are, but it's not really great either.
Like literally everyone acts like 1 mana nerfs to make things a little less high roll-y and maybe bring the power creep down a bit will kill the game somehow?
I really don't think nerfing Mr. Smite the way people have suggested is a good idea, doing so would entirely make Rogue useless as a class for a whole expansion (their only competitive deck is Pirate Rogue and it relies heavily on Smite). This deck is at best Tier 2 anyway as it stands, and I think it will get even weaker with inevitable Druid nerfs (one of it's few good matchups). You could just remove it from The Juggernaut pool and Nellie and I think that would make it more fair in Warrior (I presume the complaints are Smite in Warrior).
As for Druid you could increase Guff to 6 and probably make Nourish give empty mana crystals. Kazakusan needs to be changed as it singlehandedly shuts out any slower strategies, the suggestions for harsher deckbuilding restrictions seem good, such as if your starting deck has only dragons or making treasures = to no. of dragons played. You could possibly nerf Miracle Growth, Scale of Onyxia or Earthen Scales by 1 mana as there is currently quite a small window to push damage for aggro decks.
I can't think of much else standing out right now as stifling the meta, Spitelash Siren could probably do with a health nerf down to 4, seems a bit too sticky with 5 health and dodges quite a lot of removal because of it.
Over all, I like your ideas. Quite balanced. But I think, the biggest issue we have here, is that in every expansion the devs don´t care for some classes . As a main-priest (I like long and tricky battles) I know, what I am talking about. In some cases you have to pass a whole turn, because you don´t have a good card to play. As a Mech-Mage e.g. you can play a significant card every turn. That´s a big difference to the good old times of HS. Imo instead of nerfing everything, they should buff the low-meta-decks to near 50% winrate.
Half of these nerfs are targetting decks that need no nerf (mech pally? Really?)
Mech pally is broken as hell. It's way better than mech mage. Radar drawing 3-4 cards on average for 2 mana is ridiculous. Leviathan wins games on it's own in tempo match-ups. How does somebody catch up to someone who puts 8 mana of stats in minions on the board and does 8 damage to the enemy while developing their hand? Bubble Bot is also insane with buffed paladin minions.
The druid nerfs completely take the edge off of a deck that is way too efficient. Aquatic Form and Moonlit Guidance have no business being as cheap as they are. They're actually balanced at 1 mana and 3 mana respectively.
Swordfish as a 3 mana 4/3 is crazy too. It's not as big an issue as other things are, but it's not really great either.
Like literally everyone acts like 1 mana nerfs to make things a little less high roll-y and maybe bring the power creep down a bit will kill the game somehow?
Mech Pally has two clear weaknesses, which is relying on the board for everything and no early comeback mechanics. You clear their board early and they are very far behind. Bubble bot doubles down on this weakness, cant play it if their board is weak/cleared.
Decks that are strong but have clear weaknesses are fine. Nerfs are only needed for decks with no weaknesses (ramp druid), or that harm the overall ladder experience (switcheroo BS and pirate warrior destroying lower ranks).
1 mana increase can be the whole reason a card is playable or not, countless examples of this happened throughout HS history. If you slow everything down by 1 mana, whatever is not as punished by this nerf will just take over the game and nothing else will be good enough to challenge it.
Over all, I like your ideas. Quite balanced. But I think, the biggest issue we have here, is that in every expansion the devs don´t care for some classes . As a main-priest (I like long and tricky battles) I know, what I am talking about. In some cases you have to pass a whole turn, because you don´t have a good card to play. As a Mech-Mage e.g. you can play a significant card every turn. That´s a big difference to the good old times of HS. Imo instead of nerfing everything, they should buff the low-meta-decks to near 50% winrate.
Thanks for the feedback, I put quite a bit of time into em
For ppl who say Mech Pally is weak, it is one of the decks they are trying to push.. Watch them buff Mech Pally cards and then regret what you were saying..
A year ago, everyone was laughing at how weak PW is in Standard, and see where it is at now..
Druid could ramp quickly before and drop a big board. They also could gain a ton of armor. A number of armor-gaining cards got cycled out, so they put in Earthen Scales for Druid to be able to gain some armor.
The actual problem now is that it is much harder to clear a big board than before. Druid could drop just as much on the board before and gain just as much armor too. And with overgrowth at 4 mana, and nature’s studies and guidance to discover, they could ramp just as fast if not faster.
There are still ways to take out big minions, but not as easily as at the end of the last expansion, where you could build a board every turn and it would be completely wiped the next.
Druid could ramp quickly before and drop a big board. They also could gain a ton of armor. A number of armor-gaining cards got cycled out, so they put in Earthen Scales for Druid to be able to gain some armor.
The actual problem now is that it is much harder to clear a big board than before. Druid could drop just as much on the board before and gain just as much armor too. And with overgrowth at 4 mana, and nature’s studies and guidance to discover, they could ramp just as fast if not faster.
There are still ways to take out big minions, but not as easily as at the end of the last expansion, where you could build a board every turn and it would be completely wiped the next.
That armour gain they had was tied to summoning a random 8 drop, now they summon equivalent 8 drop in stats and can gain more than 8 armour, yeah sure it does take 2 cards instead of 1, but they also have 2 more copies of cards that can fetch other cards with Aquatic Form. Before rotation if the 8 drop didn't have taunt, or at least rush you would be losing a lot more health than the current guarantee of a large taunt minion provides. Aquatic Form also means the Druid can ramp early a lot more consistently and generally tutor key cards easier than before, on top of the Nourish buff, which although slower than Overgrowth the flexibility of drawing cards is well worth the extra 1 mana in a lot of cases.
As far as it's harder to clear board, well yes classes have lost a bunch of removal options with rotation, but even the classes that do have suitable removal for Druid boards (Priest in particular has multiple) the issue isn't not being able to clear boards, it's not being able to out resource a Druid on 20 mana and with Kazakusan (you can actually exhaust every card in Druid's deck, but Kazakusan gives it either too much burst, or resources).
Also for some classes it's actually even way easier to clear boards, such as Pirate Rogue with Plague Scientist and Pufferfist you generally only have to clear 1 taunt vs Druid anyway, because your deck should be able to kill them before they can play multiple or be designed with some kind of OTK/ burst to go over the top, any other type of deck isn't going to have a shot vs Druid.
Druid:
Aquatic Form to 1 mana
Jerry-Rigged Carpenter to 3 mana 2/2
Moonlit Guidance to 3 mana
Guff to 6 mana
Oracle of Elune limited to the first minion summoned each turn.
Earthen Scales to 2 mana.
Priest:
Switcheroo to swap only the health of both minions.
Warrior
Defias Cannoneer to 4 mana
Juggernaut can only summon minions and weapons that cost (5) or less.
Warrior Quest to 3/3/3 pirates.
Hunter
Net only counts as one spell for quest. Not two. Hunter quest probably could be 2/2/4 too. It's a little fast for the meta.
Mage
Sea Gateway to 4 mana
Gaia only hits minions
Paladin
Radar to 4 mana
Bubble Bot to 5 mana 3/3
Leviathan to 8 mana
Rogue
Swordfish to only gain 1 attack.
Neutral
Kazakusan requires you to have a dragon in your hand in order to use his effect.
I think these are pretty fair. Druid sounds like a lot, but I think Druid can take a lot. I dunno what to hit in Demon Hunter.
Why not just buff Chillwind Yeti instead?
I, not sure it would matter much. Quest warrior is an aggro deck, and the juggernaut is something of a win more piece most of the time. But I like interactive things.
Everyone knows this but ramp druid is good against everything with cards like earthen scales and miracle growth taunts. But you made your silly comment before reading so I can’t blame you.
:)
https://hsreplay.net/replay/27u2NJTZZJgToJ6k6n5BTM
The only deck(s) druid can lose to are highroll aggression. The fact that a normal curve from board decks get shut down so easily by scale and miracle growth+scales is disgusting.
Token dh is a bad deck in essence (concede after one board clear) but thats the only deck having success vs druids.
Not to mention druid still has a very strong aggro archetype of its own waiting in the wings. Druid can beat control, as it always has. But Kazakusan is stupid in this class because of the mana difference. Kaz should have a stricter dragon condition.
Aggro and midrange decks used to have a chance vs clown druid, this ones just a wrap.
Lets have druid roll over to aggro at least?
:)
https://hsreplay.net/replay/27u2NJTZZJgToJ6k6n5BTM
yeah Pirate Warrior while still beatable should be slightly slowed down. But the Matchups are kinda boring and the luckfactor is to high.
Mechashark is to strong for a card. It all depends if the mage can summon that card more often. But at least you can use your Deck against Mage which is great.
But the most problem is Druid. The Meta seems like be faster than pirate Warrior and a lot faster because of Druid.
I'll like to use all the new cards and make some funny decks but Druid and Warrior forces to use mega fast Decks :(
Rerelease the whole expansion now that they have had the thing finally tested.
Before finding ramp for druid was no easy task. Now with Aquatic Form and Moonlit Guidance its a joke how consistently they play Guff or Nourish on curve.
:)
https://hsreplay.net/replay/27u2NJTZZJgToJ6k6n5BTM
Half of these nerfs are targetting decks that need no nerf (mech pally? Really?), what is your reasoning, if any deck does something strong = nerf it? Very confusing.
Only agree with Earthen Scales, Switcheroo and Cannoneer getting a hit, everything else should be fine.
I think what the game needs more is buffs. Warlock and Priest are in a very miserable state, they simply cant do anything better than anyone, and I dont think nerfing the other classes will change that.
Mech pally is broken as hell. It's way better than mech mage. Radar drawing 3-4 cards on average for 2 mana is ridiculous. Leviathan wins games on it's own in tempo match-ups. How does somebody catch up to someone who puts 8 mana of stats in minions on the board and does 8 damage to the enemy while developing their hand? Bubble Bot is also insane with buffed paladin minions.
The druid nerfs completely take the edge off of a deck that is way too efficient. Aquatic Form and Moonlit Guidance have no business being as cheap as they are. They're actually balanced at 1 mana and 3 mana respectively.
Swordfish as a 3 mana 4/3 is crazy too. It's not as big an issue as other things are, but it's not really great either.
Like literally everyone acts like 1 mana nerfs to make things a little less high roll-y and maybe bring the power creep down a bit will kill the game somehow?
I really don't think nerfing Mr. Smite the way people have suggested is a good idea, doing so would entirely make Rogue useless as a class for a whole expansion (their only competitive deck is Pirate Rogue and it relies heavily on Smite). This deck is at best Tier 2 anyway as it stands, and I think it will get even weaker with inevitable Druid nerfs (one of it's few good matchups). You could just remove it from The Juggernaut pool and Nellie and I think that would make it more fair in Warrior (I presume the complaints are Smite in Warrior).
As for Druid you could increase Guff to 6 and probably make Nourish give empty mana crystals. Kazakusan needs to be changed as it singlehandedly shuts out any slower strategies, the suggestions for harsher deckbuilding restrictions seem good, such as if your starting deck has only dragons or making treasures = to no. of dragons played. You could possibly nerf Miracle Growth, Scale of Onyxia or Earthen Scales by 1 mana as there is currently quite a small window to push damage for aggro decks.
I can't think of much else standing out right now as stifling the meta, Spitelash Siren could probably do with a health nerf down to 4, seems a bit too sticky with 5 health and dodges quite a lot of removal because of it.
Over all, I like your ideas. Quite balanced. But I think, the biggest issue we have here, is that in every expansion the devs don´t care for some classes . As a main-priest (I like long and tricky battles) I know, what I am talking about. In some cases you have to pass a whole turn, because you don´t have a good card to play. As a Mech-Mage e.g. you can play a significant card every turn. That´s a big difference to the good old times of HS. Imo instead of nerfing everything, they should buff the low-meta-decks to near 50% winrate.
Mech Pally has two clear weaknesses, which is relying on the board for everything and no early comeback mechanics. You clear their board early and they are very far behind. Bubble bot doubles down on this weakness, cant play it if their board is weak/cleared.
Decks that are strong but have clear weaknesses are fine. Nerfs are only needed for decks with no weaknesses (ramp druid), or that harm the overall ladder experience (switcheroo BS and pirate warrior destroying lower ranks).
1 mana increase can be the whole reason a card is playable or not, countless examples of this happened throughout HS history. If you slow everything down by 1 mana, whatever is not as punished by this nerf will just take over the game and nothing else will be good enough to challenge it.
Thanks for the feedback, I put quite a bit of time into em
:)
https://hsreplay.net/replay/27u2NJTZZJgToJ6k6n5BTM
I swear, if switcheroo gets nerfed, I’m going to riot.
For ppl who say Mech Pally is weak, it is one of the decks they are trying to push.. Watch them buff Mech Pally cards and then regret what you were saying..
A year ago, everyone was laughing at how weak PW is in Standard, and see where it is at now..
I still laugh at how weak PW is in standard, what's your point?
When I see a druid, while I'm playing a control or midrange deck I just concede, this is ridiculous, it's impossible to win.
Druid could ramp quickly before and drop a big board. They also could gain a ton of armor. A number of armor-gaining cards got cycled out, so they put in Earthen Scales for Druid to be able to gain some armor.
The actual problem now is that it is much harder to clear a big board than before. Druid could drop just as much on the board before and gain just as much armor too. And with overgrowth at 4 mana, and nature’s studies and guidance to discover, they could ramp just as fast if not faster.
There are still ways to take out big minions, but not as easily as at the end of the last expansion, where you could build a board every turn and it would be completely wiped the next.
That armour gain they had was tied to summoning a random 8 drop, now they summon equivalent 8 drop in stats and can gain more than 8 armour, yeah sure it does take 2 cards instead of 1, but they also have 2 more copies of cards that can fetch other cards with Aquatic Form. Before rotation if the 8 drop didn't have taunt, or at least rush you would be losing a lot more health than the current guarantee of a large taunt minion provides. Aquatic Form also means the Druid can ramp early a lot more consistently and generally tutor key cards easier than before, on top of the Nourish buff, which although slower than Overgrowth the flexibility of drawing cards is well worth the extra 1 mana in a lot of cases.
As far as it's harder to clear board, well yes classes have lost a bunch of removal options with rotation, but even the classes that do have suitable removal for Druid boards (Priest in particular has multiple) the issue isn't not being able to clear boards, it's not being able to out resource a Druid on 20 mana and with Kazakusan (you can actually exhaust every card in Druid's deck, but Kazakusan gives it either too much burst, or resources).
Also for some classes it's actually even way easier to clear boards, such as Pirate Rogue with Plague Scientist and Pufferfist you generally only have to clear 1 taunt vs Druid anyway, because your deck should be able to kill them before they can play multiple or be designed with some kind of OTK/ burst to go over the top, any other type of deck isn't going to have a shot vs Druid.