I'd rather Blizzard nerf cards instead than HoF them because HoF cards remain in Wild forever with their overpowered effects . I rather Blizzard did not provide any dust refunds and just nerf cards over HoFing them(Actually I would totally pay money or dust to nerf cards if I can do so ) , HoF is an indirect destroyer of the Wild Format.
EDIT: I am sure everyone would end up playing Wild, at least once in a while.
I largely agree with that, with some minor exceptions. I think that Naturalize is an okay example of that since it is not game breaking against enemy minions and only offers risk when used as a combo piece. Like with Mecha'thun for example. In Wild that isn't an issue since combo breakers both exist and will continue to add up as the game expands, such as with Dirty Rat. With cards like that its fine. I don't like Doomguard but I can't be sure that I consider it broken. Most cards that went to wild that should of been fixed were ones going anyway, like Jade Idol or Drakonid Operative.
I disagree. Before HoF existed, cards were nerfed to the ground to never be playable anywhere. I don't think that is better. Cards like Genn and Baku are very dufficult to nerf correctly, and the dust refund policy is better for HoFed cards for most players.
The mistake was that they included the HoF after the first standard rotation.
If a HoFed card indeed destroys Wild, it will be nerfed, but that has not been anywhere close to the case so far. Problematic cards in Wild have rather been broken new synergies: Barnes+resurrect+AOE options, Star Aligner+Melon+Aviana+Kun, Giants+Naga. Currently Even shaman+Wild syneergy, Pirate rogue+Patches, Kngsbane+Oil and Odd paladin+Mustard/QM/Loatheb are all strong, but I don't think the current HoF class will create any problems.
If anything, I would have wanted CB, Mana Wyrm and druid ramp to be HoFed rather than nerfed...
I disagree. Before HoF existed, cards were nerfed to the ground to never be playable anywhere. I don't think that is better. Cards like Genn and Baku are very dufficult to nerf correctly, and the dust refund policy is better for HoFed cards for most players.
The mistake was that they included the HoF after the first standard rotation.
If a HoFed card indeed destroys Wild, it will be nerfed, but that has not been anywhere close to the case so far. Problematic cards in Wild have rather been broken new synergies: Barnes+resurrect+AOE options, Star Aligner+Melon+Aviana+Kun, Giants+Naga. Currently Even shaman+Wild syneergy, Pirate rogue+Patches, Kngsbane+Oil and Odd paladin+Mustard/QM/Loatheb are all strong, but I don't think the current HoF class will create any problems.
If anything, I would have wanted CB, Mana Wyrm and druid ramp to be HoFed rather than nerfed...
I just feel that Paladin and Priest have too much synergy with all the cards available to them in Wild, because those cards are either HoF or rotated to Wild instead of being nerfed. Actually I think Blizzard should stop printing silver hand recruit synergy for Paladin temporarily. Ever since GvG with the printing of Muster for Battle, I already feel that Dude Pally will go out of control eventually . Tokens are a very dangerous in online CCG, as it also evident with Priest respawning sylvanas and Obsidian Statue several times in Wild.
yes wild always has been overpowered that its why secret paladin with mysterious challenguer and dr.bum are the king of the meta in wild, oh wait a minute...
I'd rather Blizzard nerf cards instead than HoF them because HoF cards remain in Wild forever with their overpowered effects . I rather Blizzard did not provide any dust refunds and just nerf cards over HoFing them(Actually I would totally pay money or dust to nerf cards if I can do so ) , HoF is an indirect destroyer of the Wild Format.
EDIT: I am sure everyone would end up playing Wild, at least once in a while.
I'm a wild only player. I like to leave a deck and come back whenever I want, even if it is a very long break from the deck, and return to it at some future point to play that deck again once I get tired of the new cards. If you nerf cards you can't do that anymore, you're stuck with getting burnt out on the new cards and are simply left with dead cards or dead decks due to them being hard core nerfed instead of HoFed or intelligently nerfed in a non-dead-on-arrival fashion.
I will say though that honestly the even/odd decks aren't as big of an issue in wild as many people think. I've said this a lot recently, but I hit legend for the first time using Dragon Reno Priest. The only odd/even deck I had any considerable issue with was Odd Warrior and they weren't a common match-up. Even Shaman was an auto-win for me 90% of the time. Odd Rogue was a favorable match-up for me too, just less of a steam roll than Even Shaman MUs. I can't help but feel most people are getting absolutely steamrolled by even/odd because they use the exact same hot garbage in wild and don't think for themselves and/or have fun playing other things. If I can hit legend for the first time in the pre-nerf even/odd wild meta (and honestly it was my first time getting above rank 5 even) I see absolutely no reason why many other players can't either. I'm far from the best player.
Tl;dr - Maybe one way to sum up my feelings for not wanting to nerf cards is that I want wild to not just rely on new expansions creating playable and/or fun decks. Sometimes you want to play old stuff because at one point you liked it and want to play it again. Wild players don't want all old cards to be Warsong Commanders, with the only playable and intact synergies coming from new cards. At that point wild more or less becomes the standard format, just with a bunch of garbo cards in between.
I completely disagree. One of the most important functions of wild is that it is a place to go to play your favorite decks and cards from the past. It's already sad how many old decks have gotten totally destroyed by nerfs and aren't playable anywhere. I'm hoping they eventually give the molten giant treatment to a lot more cards, I would love to be able to go to wild and play some old school midrange druid.
The silver hand recruit synergy would eventually get more out of control in wild since blizzard can just print more of them because there will be a lack of recruit synergy in standard. In the end everyone needs to run a bunch of AOE to deal with them also DK Guldan with Malganis resurrected and the 100th obsidian statue and sylvanas.
I would prefer properly developed cards or at least some caution when designing cards. The same mistake they made with Reno they made with Baku and Genn. Making them neutral cards was an invitation to chaos. They set them loose on us basically demanding us to break them in every class possible. If they had started with a few class specific versions of Reno or Baku and Genn, they would have easily have seen how disrupting they would be to the metagame. And it would have been so much much easier to nerf a class version of them. Paladin is a problem change the text to a new hero power. You can't do that so easily and specifically with Baku. Even Shaman ruining the format, change the text to battlecry plus draw the card start of game and mess around with its cost. It's basically impossible to nerf a neutral design like that for a specific class without making the card irrelevant. And this is something they know how to do. That's the method they used with quests and deathknights. And people complained about them, so they just had to push their luck again with Genn and Baku. Go back to class legendary build arounds and push those to their limit because they're a lot easier to manage with a nerf.
The silver hand recruit synergy would eventually get more out of control in wild since blizzard can just print more of them because there will be a lack of recruit synergy in standard. In the end everyone needs to run a bunch of AOE to deal with them also DK Guldan with Malganis resurrected and the 100th obsidian statue and sylvanas.
Any card in wild will get better with new cards. At what point do you stop trying to make sure old cards in wild do not get more powerful with new strats and instead let wild be the format where old strats are left alone to coincide with new cards/synergies?
As for the Mal'Ganis & statue examples, as a casual control mage player that is why I intentionally sit on transform effects for Mal'Ganis. You can't instantly lose to a mega Gul'Dan tempo swing buffed by Mal'Ganis if you don't allow your opponent to kill their MVP or do the work for your opponent. Statue only matters if you're playing an aggressive/midrange deck. Obsidian statue being rezzed a bunch of times vs another slow deck is really low impact honestly. I see so many players lose Big Priest match-ups for that very reason (they freak out and prioritize getting rid of statue from the rez pool just to lose to the real threats such as Rag & Y'Sharjj).
I would prefer properly developed cards or at least some caution when designing cards. The same mistake they made with Reno they made with Baku and Genn. Making them neutral cards was an invitation to chaos. They set them loose on us basically demanding us to break them in every class possible. If they had started with a few class specific versions of Reno or Baku and Genn, they would have easily have seen how disrupting they would be to the metagame. And it would have been so much much easier to nerf a class version of them. Paladin is a problem change the text to a new hero power. You can't do that so easily and specifically with Baku. Even Shaman ruining the format, change the text to battlecry plus draw the card start of game and mess around with its cost. It's basically impossible to nerf a neutral design like that for a specific class without making the card irrelevant. And this is something they know how to do. That's the method they used with quests and deathknights. And people complained about them, so they just had to push their luck again with Genn and Baku. Go back to class legendary build arounds and push those to their limit because they're a lot easier to manage with a nerf.
Reno didn't get used in most classes competitively though. It only stuck with the clothies of HS (lock, priest, mage) with borderline meme-tier for warrior & hunter. And that is actually good because for casual play you did have the opportunity to make fun meme-tier Reno decks like Reno Pally, Reno Shaman, Reno Rogue, etc.
This community really seems to fixate on neutral cards and in some instance blow them out of more proportion than what is due.
Reno creating 3 of 9 viable singleton decks did not mean Reno as a whole was meta dominating.
Same thing with Baku creating only creating 3 of 9 possible viable class combinations or Genn creating only 2 of 9 viable class combinations possible. In the case of Reno, Baku, & Genn in reality only a few of the decks ever see/saw competitive play. If the cards were much more of a massive problem then the ratios wouldn't be so low compared to the all of the possible decks the 9 classes could make. At best one could argue that Reno Lock, Reno Priest, Reno Mage, Odd Warrior, Odd Rogue, Odd Pally, Even Lock, & Even Pally were strong decks in need of tuning, rather than saying the majority of singleton/odd/even decks that never got used were somehow busted as a singleton/even/odd mechanic.
How are people missing the blazingly obvious thing here? That even if a card is HoF'd it was STILL PLAYABLE IN WILD BEFORE HAND!?
I'm sorry but for fucks sake...what am I missing? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but a Standard Card that gets HoF'd could be played in Wild before it got the HoF Treatment. Right? So how the blue fuck is HoFing a card 'Breaking Wild'?
And after so many times writing the word 'HoF' I'm expecting David to appear, like Candyman, and slit my throat whilst I'm in the bath or something....
How are people missing the blazingly obvious thing here? That even if a card is HoF'd it was STILL PLAYABLE IN WILD BEFORE HAND!?
I'm sorry but for fucks sake...what am I missing? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but a Standard Card that gets HoF'd could be played in Wild before it got the HoF Treatment. Right? So how the blue fuck is HoFing a card 'Breaking Wild'?
And after so many times writing the word 'HoF' I'm expecting David to appear, like Candyman, and slit my throat whilst I'm in the bath or something....
I mean if it is HoF instead of nerf, then it is less likely for developers to nerf it since it is no longer in standard, as time goes by with intro of new cards there might be broken interaction in Wild, thereby breaking wild
Honestly couldn't disagree more with this post. I play 5-legend in both standard and wild every month and I would prefer they un-nerf all the cards they've nerfed (with some obvious exceptions) and move them to wild, Molten Giant style.
HoF is more wallet friendly to players, less destructive for fun decks and let's be honest, Wild can't be balanced anyways, so to keep balancing it is just not sensible
I disagree. Before HoF existed, cards were nerfed to the ground to never be playable anywhere. I don't think that is better. Cards like Genn and Baku are very dufficult to nerf correctly, and the dust refund policy is better for HoFed cards for most players.
The mistake was that they included the HoF after the first standard rotation.
If a HoFed card indeed destroys Wild, it will be nerfed, but that has not been anywhere close to the case so far. Problematic cards in Wild have rather been broken new synergies: Barnes+resurrect+AOE options, Star Aligner+Melon+Aviana+Kun, Giants+Naga. Currently Even shaman+Wild syneergy, Pirate rogue+Patches, Kngsbane+Oil and Odd paladin+Mustard/QM/Loatheb are all strong, but I don't think the current HoF class will create any problems.
If anything, I would have wanted CB, Mana Wyrm and druid ramp to be HoFed rather than nerfed...
I just feel that Paladin and Priest have too much synergy with all the cards available to them in Wild, because those cards are either HoF or rotated to Wild instead of being nerfed. Actually I think Blizzard should stop printing silver hand recruit synergy for Paladin temporarily. Ever since GvG with the printing of Muster for Battle, I already feel that Dude Pally will go out of control eventually . Tokens are a very dangerous in online CCG, as it also evident with Priest respawning sylvanas and Obsidian Statue several times in Wild.
I think you pointed out two good classes that truly have a lot of options. I made a silverhand deck like 2-3 expansions ago and it was broken af...now.....it doesn't matter if you go even or odd, it's actually a challenge to make a bad deck. All the priest resurrect crap is just garbage and this is coming from someone who used to mostly play priest. It's too much now to be interesting. Mage has some new options for flamewalker cancer though.(aluneth)
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I'd rather Blizzard nerf cards instead than HoF them because HoF cards remain in Wild forever with their overpowered effects . I rather Blizzard did not provide any dust refunds and just nerf cards over HoFing them(Actually I would totally pay money or dust to nerf cards if I can do so ) , HoF is an indirect destroyer of the Wild Format.
EDIT: I am sure everyone would end up playing Wild, at least once in a while.
I largely agree with that, with some minor exceptions. I think that Naturalize is an okay example of that since it is not game breaking against enemy minions and only offers risk when used as a combo piece. Like with Mecha'thun for example. In Wild that isn't an issue since combo breakers both exist and will continue to add up as the game expands, such as with Dirty Rat. With cards like that its fine. I don't like Doomguard but I can't be sure that I consider it broken. Most cards that went to wild that should of been fixed were ones going anyway, like Jade Idol or Drakonid Operative.
I disagree. Before HoF existed, cards were nerfed to the ground to never be playable anywhere. I don't think that is better. Cards like Genn and Baku are very dufficult to nerf correctly, and the dust refund policy is better for HoFed cards for most players.
The mistake was that they included the HoF after the first standard rotation.
If a HoFed card indeed destroys Wild, it will be nerfed, but that has not been anywhere close to the case so far. Problematic cards in Wild have rather been broken new synergies: Barnes+resurrect+AOE options, Star Aligner+Melon+Aviana+Kun, Giants+Naga. Currently Even shaman+Wild syneergy, Pirate rogue+Patches, Kngsbane+Oil and Odd paladin+Mustard/QM/Loatheb are all strong, but I don't think the current HoF class will create any problems.
If anything, I would have wanted CB, Mana Wyrm and druid ramp to be HoFed rather than nerfed...
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
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The point of wild is that it has overpowered cards..
blizzard cant nerf properly so much better to hof XD
I just feel that Paladin and Priest have too much synergy with all the cards available to them in Wild, because those cards are either HoF or rotated to Wild instead of being nerfed. Actually I think Blizzard should stop printing silver hand recruit synergy for Paladin temporarily. Ever since GvG with the printing of Muster for Battle, I already feel that Dude Pally will go out of control eventually . Tokens are a very dangerous in online CCG, as it also evident with Priest respawning sylvanas and Obsidian Statue several times in Wild.
yes wild always has been overpowered that its why secret paladin with mysterious challenguer and dr.bum are the king of the meta in wild, oh wait a minute...
I'm a wild only player. I like to leave a deck and come back whenever I want, even if it is a very long break from the deck, and return to it at some future point to play that deck again once I get tired of the new cards. If you nerf cards you can't do that anymore, you're stuck with getting burnt out on the new cards and are simply left with dead cards or dead decks due to them being hard core nerfed instead of HoFed or intelligently nerfed in a non-dead-on-arrival fashion.
I will say though that honestly the even/odd decks aren't as big of an issue in wild as many people think. I've said this a lot recently, but I hit legend for the first time using Dragon Reno Priest. The only odd/even deck I had any considerable issue with was Odd Warrior and they weren't a common match-up. Even Shaman was an auto-win for me 90% of the time. Odd Rogue was a favorable match-up for me too, just less of a steam roll than Even Shaman MUs. I can't help but feel most people are getting absolutely steamrolled by even/odd because they use the exact same hot garbage in wild and don't think for themselves and/or have fun playing other things. If I can hit legend for the first time in the pre-nerf even/odd wild meta (and honestly it was my first time getting above rank 5 even) I see absolutely no reason why many other players can't either. I'm far from the best player.
Tl;dr - Maybe one way to sum up my feelings for not wanting to nerf cards is that I want wild to not just rely on new expansions creating playable and/or fun decks. Sometimes you want to play old stuff because at one point you liked it and want to play it again. Wild players don't want all old cards to be Warsong Commanders, with the only playable and intact synergies coming from new cards. At that point wild more or less becomes the standard format, just with a bunch of garbo cards in between.
I completely disagree. One of the most important functions of wild is that it is a place to go to play your favorite decks and cards from the past. It's already sad how many old decks have gotten totally destroyed by nerfs and aren't playable anywhere. I'm hoping they eventually give the molten giant treatment to a lot more cards, I would love to be able to go to wild and play some old school midrange druid.
How would you nerf cards like Ragnaros, Baku, Genn, or even Neutralize?? HoF is great. More should go in.
The silver hand recruit synergy would eventually get more out of control in wild since blizzard can just print more of them because there will be a lack of recruit synergy in standard. In the end everyone needs to run a bunch of AOE to deal with them also DK Guldan with Malganis resurrected and the 100th obsidian statue and sylvanas.
I would prefer properly developed cards or at least some caution when designing cards. The same mistake they made with Reno they made with Baku and Genn. Making them neutral cards was an invitation to chaos. They set them loose on us basically demanding us to break them in every class possible. If they had started with a few class specific versions of Reno or Baku and Genn, they would have easily have seen how disrupting they would be to the metagame. And it would have been so much much easier to nerf a class version of them. Paladin is a problem change the text to a new hero power. You can't do that so easily and specifically with Baku. Even Shaman ruining the format, change the text to battlecry plus draw the card start of game and mess around with its cost. It's basically impossible to nerf a neutral design like that for a specific class without making the card irrelevant. And this is something they know how to do. That's the method they used with quests and deathknights. And people complained about them, so they just had to push their luck again with Genn and Baku. Go back to class legendary build arounds and push those to their limit because they're a lot easier to manage with a nerf.
Any card in wild will get better with new cards. At what point do you stop trying to make sure old cards in wild do not get more powerful with new strats and instead let wild be the format where old strats are left alone to coincide with new cards/synergies?
As for the Mal'Ganis & statue examples, as a casual control mage player that is why I intentionally sit on transform effects for Mal'Ganis. You can't instantly lose to a mega Gul'Dan tempo swing buffed by Mal'Ganis if you don't allow your opponent to kill their MVP or do the work for your opponent. Statue only matters if you're playing an aggressive/midrange deck. Obsidian statue being rezzed a bunch of times vs another slow deck is really low impact honestly. I see so many players lose Big Priest match-ups for that very reason (they freak out and prioritize getting rid of statue from the rez pool just to lose to the real threats such as Rag & Y'Sharjj).
Reno didn't get used in most classes competitively though. It only stuck with the clothies of HS (lock, priest, mage) with borderline meme-tier for warrior & hunter. And that is actually good because for casual play you did have the opportunity to make fun meme-tier Reno decks like Reno Pally, Reno Shaman, Reno Rogue, etc.
This community really seems to fixate on neutral cards and in some instance blow them out of more proportion than what is due.
Reno creating 3 of 9 viable singleton decks did not mean Reno as a whole was meta dominating.
Same thing with Baku creating only creating 3 of 9 possible viable class combinations or Genn creating only 2 of 9 viable class combinations possible. In the case of Reno, Baku, & Genn in reality only a few of the decks ever see/saw competitive play. If the cards were much more of a massive problem then the ratios wouldn't be so low compared to the all of the possible decks the 9 classes could make. At best one could argue that Reno Lock, Reno Priest, Reno Mage, Odd Warrior, Odd Rogue, Odd Pally, Even Lock, & Even Pally were strong decks in need of tuning, rather than saying the majority of singleton/odd/even decks that never got used were somehow busted as a singleton/even/odd mechanic.
How are people missing the blazingly obvious thing here? That even if a card is HoF'd it was STILL PLAYABLE IN WILD BEFORE HAND!?
I'm sorry but for fucks sake...what am I missing? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but a Standard Card that gets HoF'd could be played in Wild before it got the HoF Treatment. Right? So how the blue fuck is HoFing a card 'Breaking Wild'?
And after so many times writing the word 'HoF' I'm expecting David to appear, like Candyman, and slit my throat whilst I'm in the bath or something....
4/3/19 RIP Keith Flint. 😔
I mean if it is HoF instead of nerf, then it is less likely for developers to nerf it since it is no longer in standard, as time goes by with intro of new cards there might be broken interaction in Wild, thereby breaking wild
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It's DINNER TIME
Honestly couldn't disagree more with this post. I play 5-legend in both standard and wild every month and I would prefer they un-nerf all the cards they've nerfed (with some obvious exceptions) and move them to wild, Molten Giant style.
HoF is more wallet friendly to players, less destructive for fun decks and let's be honest, Wild can't be balanced anyways, so to keep balancing it is just not sensible
I tried having fun once. It was awful.
I think you pointed out two good classes that truly have a lot of options. I made a silverhand deck like 2-3 expansions ago and it was broken af...now.....it doesn't matter if you go even or odd, it's actually a challenge to make a bad deck. All the priest resurrect crap is just garbage and this is coming from someone who used to mostly play priest. It's too much now to be interesting. Mage has some new options for flamewalker cancer though.(aluneth)
Fun > Meta