All you people crying that all hunter decks combined being 30% of the meta and how that it's unprecedented are just clueless.
Jade druid at it's prime was 30% of all decks played. That was ONE archetype. You guys either weren't here then or you're just lying to yourselves to cry moar.
And let's not go into Shamanstone or Undertaker Hunter.
According to the latest Meta stats over the last week, up to this morning at 8am, Spell Hunter was 12% of games played, Midrange Hunter 8.9%, Clone Preist 5.05%, Deathrattle Hunter 4.9% and Control Priest was 4.7%.
Vicious Syndicate reports Hunter to be 31% of all decks played and 32.8% between ranks 1 and 4.
The Top 10 decks across ALL Ranks for WR are four Hunter Decks and 6 others. That's not in order, but that is 60/40 in favour of non Hunter Decks.
I dunno, but it just doesn't feel that oppressive to me.
In terms of winrates, it's probably not. In terms of playrates, it definitely is.
I just don't get it though. If a Class is being seen a lot, but isn't at the top of the tree in Win Rates, what's the issue? I read a post above (sorry I've forgotten who it was) that said that a Whole Meta was being shaped by certain Decks. Surely it's always been that way?
People started playing certain cards because of Druids being everywhere earlier this year. Players were teching in Blood Knight because everyone and thier mum was running Giggling Inventor. Same as people, me included, teching in a Mossy Horror because of cards like Spreading Plague.
I'm not defending Team 5 here, I'm just saying that Hearthstone has forever been like this. Certain Classes and Decks dominate each Meta. Players have to figure out which Decks and Cards mess with those Decks and so the Meta flows and changes.
At the end of the day the Nerfs have been implemented and there is exactly Jack all we can do about it.
If you don't like the game don't play it. Go away, play something else until Rotation..
Or you Could just play the decks you want, do your dailies and not give a shit about the tryhards trying to get to Rank X with the most broken Meta Decks. I've been doing that since 2015 and I'm so much less salty about things.
According to the latest Meta stats over the last week, up to this morning at 8am, Spell Hunter was 12% of games played, Midrange Hunter 8.9%, Clone Preist 5.05%, Deathrattle Hunter 4.9% and Control Priest was 4.7%.
Vicious Syndicate reports Hunter to be 31% of all decks played and 32.8% between ranks 1 and 4.
The Top 10 decks across ALL Ranks for WR are four Hunter Decks and 6 others. That's not in order, but that is 60/40 in favour of non Hunter Decks.
I dunno, but it just doesn't feel that oppressive to me.
In terms of winrates, it's probably not. In terms of playrates, it definitely is.
I just don't get it though. If a Class is being seen a lot, but isn't at the top of the tree in Win Rates, what's the issue? I read a post above (sorry I've forgotten who it was) that said that a Whole Meta was being shaped by certain Decks. Surely it's always been that way?
Actually I have been playing for 1 year exactly and what annoys me , and the majority of the people(about 67% of them , I exclude 2% that are immune to boredom like you), is that this meta post-nerf is hunted down by hunters. Play against a single class every 1 in 3 games, is not funny for me, and I am here for the fun. With Druid, that wasn't the case. Druid players were never more than 20% .
Easy to farm if you pick odd warrior sure. Great polarising meta with very little variety of decks. That is why we are complaining.
Exactly, and the meta is even shaping up to counter odd warrior as well which is once again creating this polarized paper-rock-scissors matchups that ruin the game. *Before, it was quest rogue, taunt druid, odd paladin, and tempo (face) mage with polarized matchups against each other (above 60/40). I don't want the game to go back there...
*By before, I mean the most recent polarized meta which was after Boomsday I think.
According to the latest Meta stats over the last week, up to this morning at 8am, Spell Hunter was 12% of games played, Midrange Hunter 8.9%, Clone Preist 5.05%, Deathrattle Hunter 4.9% and Control Priest was 4.7%.
Vicious Syndicate reports Hunter to be 31% of all decks played and 32.8% between ranks 1 and 4.
The Top 10 decks across ALL Ranks for WR are four Hunter Decks and 6 others. That's not in order, but that is 60/40 in favour of non Hunter Decks.
I dunno, but it just doesn't feel that oppressive to me.
In terms of winrates, it's probably not. In terms of playrates, it definitely is.
I just don't get it though. If a Class is being seen a lot, but isn't at the top of the tree in Win Rates, what's the issue? I read a post above (sorry I've forgotten who it was) that said that a Whole Meta was being shaped by certain Decks. Surely it's always been that way?
You said yourself that 4 out of top 10 decks are Hunter though:
The Top 10 decks across ALL Ranks for WR are four Hunter Decks and 6 others. That's not in order, but that is 60/40 in favour of non Hunter Decks.
I dunno, but it just doesn't feel that oppressive to me.
And Hunter is definitely a Top 1 candidate. Not that it bothers me. I have no issue with Hunter being good. That's also not the thread is about. It's about how the nerfs made the metagame worse. And (surprise!) it did! It's not even about personal opinions, it's about statistics and facts.
Personally, I don't care about Hunters and any nerfs they may or may not get. It's pretty easy to farm them. But it doesn't make the game be or feel better. When you encounter the same class in a third of your matches, it becomes boring very quickly. So, for their own sake, Blizz should do something about it.
I hate how some people jump in just to call others names trying to protect devs' bad decisions that made the meta objectively worse according to the stats of playrates without even trying to back up their claims with actual data. Like this one:
Hunter spellstone is not a reasonable card at all and the decks are not weak to control. They can flood multiple times and their early pressure is insane on the aggro versions. They also have rexxar which will win against most control decks in the long run.
Spellstone and Rexxar are the 2 prime nerf candidates. At least 6-7 mana for the spellstone or 2 secrets to upgrade and Rexxar should cost 8 mana for his power level.
Well that's kinda the game, you know. Flood a board, clear a board. Spell hunter has spellstone and call of wild so just plan ahead and expect to deal with them sooner or later, because you do have cards in the game that can deal with them easily. Your proposed nerfs would just make spell hunter much slower and possibly unplayable, which would in turn push another deck that can fill the board easily to the top of the ladder. If you nerf all of those decks, combo and control decks will thrive, which was the case in boomsday and it was the slowest meta ever. In this meta I continue facing various aggro, control, midrange and combo decks on ladder. Hunter may be more prominent temporarily, but whatever. Each class is allowed to have its own spotlight.
Also I don't know what you want from this game if you think Springpaw + Crackling Razormaw turn 3 (which is one of their ideal plays) is "insane pressure" in aggro. It's all mostly fair and people just need to start to think in this game and play around certain cards. You should try playing wild to see what insane early game pressure is. Hearthstone was full of broken early game swings and standard is looking more balanced than ever, with the exclusion of death knights. For that we'll just have to be patient until the rotation.
I just don't get why is the ramp up the problem! Was it in the past? NO! So why is now the problem? This question must be answered!
Maybe because they put so much draw and armor the last two years? Maybe because they printed a 3-cost card that will draw one card and give almost all the times more than 6 armor? Way better than warriors? Maybe because it was in his archetype the ramp up and decided to give more value in ramp up by printing UI? Maybe because they gave the insane branching paths or easy removals like spellstones that combo with the previous cards I reffered?
DK was fine though not that strong.
So we should ask ourselves! For 3 years was ramp up a problem? Why the last year is? Is the ramp up the actual problem?
Finally, I wanted to say that they didn't destroy only the combo decks that were based in insane draw and armor, but they kill also the good old big druid! A deck that defines druid AND IS DRUID! It wasn't the combo decks that define the class but big druid among 2-3 others.
A good nerf would be for example UI to spawn a 3-3 minion! There are many ideas. Those nerfs was just this "put the problem under the carpet"
My 5 last games was turn 2 secret , turn 3 secret , turn 4 coin spellstone, i instantly concede when i saw the coin i dont even want to see the actual card that's how upset i'm right now lol i'm a rogue player only so 0 chances to answer that which i believe it's such a fail approach for the rogue perspective, this class should be good at AoE it makes no sense to me.
It's just very frustrating to face hunter over and over again for a rogue player like me so i'll be forced to not play the game until April, sadly because i love my deck and i believe it's super strong but it just dont have any chance against hunter also struggle against other slower ones because it's a minion base deck and they are all building their decks to beat hunter with a billion of AoE, i just faced a priest that AoE me for 8 times it was one of the most disgusting games i've had.
My 5 last games was turn 2 secret , turn 3 secret , turn 4 coin spellstone, i instantly concede when i saw the coin i dont even want to see the actual card that's how upset i'm right now lol i'm a rogue player only so 0 chances to answer that which i believe it's such a fail approach for the rogue perspective, this class should be good at AoE it makes no sense to me.
It's just very frustrating to face hunter over and over again for a rogue player like me so i'll be forced to not play the game until April, sadly because i love my deck and i believe it's super strong but it just dont have any chance against hunter also struggle against other slower ones because it's a minion base deck and they are all building their decks to beat hunter with a billion of AoE, i just faced a priest that AoE me for 8 times it was one of the most disgusting games i've had.
Stop attacking into Wandering Monster and the matchup becomes decent.
My 5 last games was turn 2 secret , turn 3 secret , turn 4 coin spellstone, i instantly concede when i saw the coin i dont even want to see the actual card that's how upset i'm right now lol i'm a rogue player only so 0 chances to answer that which i believe it's such a fail approach for the rogue perspective, this class should be good at AoE it makes no sense to me.
It's just very frustrating to face hunter over and over again for a rogue player like me so i'll be forced to not play the game until April, sadly because i love my deck and i believe it's super strong but it just dont have any chance against hunter also struggle against other slower ones because it's a minion base deck and they are all building their decks to beat hunter with a billion of AoE, i just faced a priest that AoE me for 8 times it was one of the most disgusting games i've had.
Stop attacking into Wandering Monster and the matchup becomes decent.
My 5 last games was turn 2 secret , turn 3 secret , turn 4 coin spellstone, i instantly concede when i saw the coin i dont even want to see the actual card that's how upset i'm right now lol i'm a rogue player only so 0 chances to answer that which i believe it's such a fail approach for the rogue perspective, this class should be good at AoE it makes no sense to me.
It's just very frustrating to face hunter over and over again for a rogue player like me so i'll be forced to not play the game until April, sadly because i love my deck and i believe it's super strong but it just dont have any chance against hunter also struggle against other slower ones because it's a minion base deck and they are all building their decks to beat hunter with a billion of AoE, i just faced a priest that AoE me for 8 times it was one of the most disgusting games i've had.
Stop attacking into Wandering Monster and the matchup becomes decent.
Hunter spellstone is not a reasonable card at all and the decks are not weak to control. They can flood multiple times and their early pressure is insane on the aggro versions. They also have rexxar which will win against most control decks in the long run.
Spellstone and Rexxar are the 2 prime nerf candidates. At least 6-7 mana for the spellstone or 2 secrets to upgrade and Rexxar should cost 8 mana for his power level.
Well that's kinda the game, you know. Flood a board, clear a board. Spell hunter has spellstone and call of wild so just plan ahead and expect to deal with them sooner or later, because you do have cards in the game that can deal with them easily. Your proposed nerfs would just make spell hunter much slower and possibly unplayable, which would in turn push another deck that can fill the board easily to the top of the ladder. If you nerf all of those decks, combo and control decks will thrive, which was the case in boomsday and it was the slowest meta ever. In this meta I continue facing various aggro, control, midrange and combo decks on ladder. Hunter may be more prominent temporarily, but whatever. Each class is allowed to have its own spotlight.
Also I don't know what you want from this game if you think Springpaw + Crackling Razormaw turn 3 (which is one of their ideal plays) is "insane pressure" in aggro. It's all mostly fair and people just need to start to think in this game and play around certain cards. You should try playing wild to see what insane early game pressure is. Hearthstone was full of broken early game swings and standard is looking more balanced than ever, with the exclusion of death knights. For that we'll just have to be patient until the rotation.
I'm going to be nice because you engage in a respectful manner but you're out of your mind if you think hunter spellstone is a balanced card. Yes other classes can flood the board but not with a single card on T4-5. When you a clear a board from those other decks your board clear is killing 2-4+ of their cards. When you use a board clear vs hunter spellstone it's a 1 for 1 and he maintains the initiative to refill. Nerfing it's cost brings it in line for it's power level and opens up more spells being able to counter it before it's too late and really it's too late if you don't instantly remove it. It's a total nightmare for many classes that simple do not have those mid game 3 aoe clears.
Wild has far more answers as well as problems. You can tech solutions to most problems. Nobody is waiting for the rotation here either. We're early into this expansion and people are already sick of it outside of the hunter fanboys. Blizzard are going to start losing people fast without some fixes.
I guess I was just referring to spell hunter because they can fill the board with spellstone and call of wild and that's pretty much it until they draw rexxar or zuljin. Btw Call to Arms is another card which fills the board in one turn. Now that I think about it, spellstone should be exclusive to spell hunter, but I guess I haven't seen it have much play/success in other hunter archetypes. I just happen to win more often than lose against hunter with whatever I'm playing, so I don't see hunter as a big deal other than it's the most likely class to encounter on ladder. (I mostly play mage, warlock and priest currently at rank 7, but I've seen success with tempo rogue decks, otk paladin and control warrior, which covers almost all classes). Honestly, the card may not be balanced well but the only card making this deck consistent enough is Deathstalker Rexxar and anyone who fails to see that is ignorant. Heck, the chances are high that you won't even draw your spellstone until too late. I guess I'm not sick of hunter as I'm used to seeing much worse things in this game, but this seems like any other salt thread really. My advice from experience is if you're sick of the game atm, just take a break and come back after some time. Nerfing spellstone anytime soon is not likely to happen and it wouldn't fix the mess they brought the game into with the previous expansion, IMHO.
I'm glad that we were able to have a civil discussion. I wish you a nice day :D
Let's not get too excited about the pre-nerf meta. The pre-nerf meta may have been balanced, but it was also the boomsday meta, which was also basically the witchwood meta. It was time for some change, and so many people were fed up with every druid deck doing the exact same thing that it made sense for wild growth/nourish to get the axe.
I'm sure druid will get more ramp in the future, with wild growth and nourish gone there is a lot of space to make interesting new ramp cards. There's just very little space for new ramp cards to shake up how druid plays when wild growth and nourish are always there and are such strong options.
Shudderwock is no longer a thing anymore. Druids are gone. They did an amazing job.
Will be for sure but for some reason they keep hunter OP and don't nerf the completely broken, out of control and insanely undercosted cards, like the DK and the spellstone, turning the meta into a hunterstone BS.
The hunter DK isn't undercosted.
It costs 6 mana to cast and two mana to use a hero power that initially does nothing that turn (that's a total of 8 mana, just like Anduin, just like Garrosh, and one more than Malfurion). You guys seem to have this bizarre perspective that the two mana that goes into creating a beast (again mana spent that does nothing, unlike Anduin or Malfurion) doesn't count towards the dk's mana cost. It's not like the two mana spent creating the zombeast actually reduces the cost of the beast. It's a two mana do nothing.
All you people crying that all hunter decks combined being 30% of the meta and how that it's unprecedented are just clueless.
Jade druid at it's prime was 30% of all decks played. That was ONE archetype. You guys either weren't here then or you're just lying to yourselves to cry moar.
And let's not go into Shamanstone or Undertaker Hunter.
Kids these days ...
I just don't get it though. If a Class is being seen a lot, but isn't at the top of the tree in Win Rates, what's the issue? I read a post above (sorry I've forgotten who it was) that said that a Whole Meta was being shaped by certain Decks. Surely it's always been that way?
People started playing certain cards because of Druids being everywhere earlier this year. Players were teching in Blood Knight because everyone and thier mum was running Giggling Inventor. Same as people, me included, teching in a Mossy Horror because of cards like Spreading Plague.
I'm not defending Team 5 here, I'm just saying that Hearthstone has forever been like this. Certain Classes and Decks dominate each Meta. Players have to figure out which Decks and Cards mess with those Decks and so the Meta flows and changes.
At the end of the day the Nerfs have been implemented and there is exactly Jack all we can do about it.
If you don't like the game don't play it. Go away, play something else until Rotation..
Or you Could just play the decks you want, do your dailies and not give a shit about the tryhards trying to get to Rank X with the most broken Meta Decks. I've been doing that since 2015 and I'm so much less salty about things.
4/3/19 RIP Keith Flint. 😔
Hunters are really easy to counter except deathrattle. Just farm them instead of crying about it.
Actually I have been playing for 1 year exactly and what annoys me , and the majority of the people(about 67% of them , I exclude 2% that are immune to boredom like you), is that this meta post-nerf is hunted down by hunters. Play against a single class every 1 in 3 games, is not funny for me, and I am here for the fun. With Druid, that wasn't the case. Druid players were never more than 20% .
Exactly, and the meta is even shaping up to counter odd warrior as well which is once again creating this polarized paper-rock-scissors matchups that ruin the game. *Before, it was quest rogue, taunt druid, odd paladin, and tempo (face) mage with polarized matchups against each other (above 60/40). I don't want the game to go back there...
*By before, I mean the most recent polarized meta which was after Boomsday I think.
Ready for action!
You said yourself that 4 out of top 10 decks are Hunter though:
And Hunter is definitely a Top 1 candidate. Not that it bothers me. I have no issue with Hunter being good. That's also not the thread is about. It's about how the nerfs made the metagame worse. And (surprise!) it did! It's not even about personal opinions, it's about statistics and facts.
Personally, I don't care about Hunters and any nerfs they may or may not get. It's pretty easy to farm them. But it doesn't make the game be or feel better. When you encounter the same class in a third of your matches, it becomes boring very quickly. So, for their own sake, Blizz should do something about it.
I hate how some people jump in just to call others names trying to protect devs' bad decisions that made the meta objectively worse according to the stats of playrates without even trying to back up their claims with actual data. Like this one:
The only reason hunter's WR is not 70% is because the most frequent matchup is hunter vs hunter. And a hunter has to lose there.
Any time that priest is near the top of the meta, that's a sign that the game is near unplayable.
Yes. But if that were the case then it would still be a Hunter victory, which would make it 70%. 🤔
4/3/19 RIP Keith Flint. 😔
Quote from MojoJojo21619 >>
Well that's kinda the game, you know. Flood a board, clear a board. Spell hunter has spellstone and call of wild so just plan ahead and expect to deal with them sooner or later, because you do have cards in the game that can deal with them easily. Your proposed nerfs would just make spell hunter much slower and possibly unplayable, which would in turn push another deck that can fill the board easily to the top of the ladder. If you nerf all of those decks, combo and control decks will thrive, which was the case in boomsday and it was the slowest meta ever. In this meta I continue facing various aggro, control, midrange and combo decks on ladder. Hunter may be more prominent temporarily, but whatever. Each class is allowed to have its own spotlight.
Also I don't know what you want from this game if you think Springpaw + Crackling Razormaw turn 3 (which is one of their ideal plays) is "insane pressure" in aggro. It's all mostly fair and people just need to start to think in this game and play around certain cards. You should try playing wild to see what insane early game pressure is. Hearthstone was full of broken early game swings and standard is looking more balanced than ever, with the exclusion of death knights. For that we'll just have to be patient until the rotation.
It's not rng if you call - Amaz
It would drag the winrate to 50%. When a mirror match is played, the deck loses once and wins once.
I just don't get why is the ramp up the problem! Was it in the past? NO! So why is now the problem? This question must be answered!
Maybe because they put so much draw and armor the last two years? Maybe because they printed a 3-cost card that will draw one card and give almost all the times more than 6 armor? Way better than warriors? Maybe because it was in his archetype the ramp up and decided to give more value in ramp up by printing UI? Maybe because they gave the insane branching paths or easy removals like spellstones that combo with the previous cards I reffered?
DK was fine though not that strong.
So we should ask ourselves! For 3 years was ramp up a problem? Why the last year is? Is the ramp up the actual problem?
Finally, I wanted to say that they didn't destroy only the combo decks that were based in insane draw and armor, but they kill also the good old big druid! A deck that defines druid AND IS DRUID! It wasn't the combo decks that define the class but big druid among 2-3 others.
A good nerf would be for example UI to spawn a 3-3 minion! There are many ideas. Those nerfs was just this "put the problem under the carpet"
Giants! Giants everywhere!
[K&C] Amazing Quest Mill Druid
Emerald Spellstone may be too strong, but that is NOT the problem with hunter.
Hunter would basically have only a 10% chance against priest and warrior without rexxar. Rexxar is the problem.
My 5 last games was turn 2 secret , turn 3 secret , turn 4 coin spellstone, i instantly concede when i saw the coin i dont even want to see the actual card that's how upset i'm right now lol i'm a rogue player only so 0 chances to answer that which i believe it's such a fail approach for the rogue perspective, this class should be good at AoE it makes no sense to me.
It's just very frustrating to face hunter over and over again for a rogue player like me so i'll be forced to not play the game until April, sadly because i love my deck and i believe it's super strong but it just dont have any chance against hunter also struggle against other slower ones because it's a minion base deck and they are all building their decks to beat hunter with a billion of AoE, i just faced a priest that AoE me for 8 times it was one of the most disgusting games i've had.
Stop attacking into Wandering Monster and the matchup becomes decent.
Make the Card: The biggest thread on the site!
My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
Spellstone is not really that bad. Most decks have multiple ways of dealing with it.
LMAO.
I guess I was just referring to spell hunter because they can fill the board with spellstone and call of wild and that's pretty much it until they draw rexxar or zuljin. Btw Call to Arms is another card which fills the board in one turn. Now that I think about it, spellstone should be exclusive to spell hunter, but I guess I haven't seen it have much play/success in other hunter archetypes. I just happen to win more often than lose against hunter with whatever I'm playing, so I don't see hunter as a big deal other than it's the most likely class to encounter on ladder. (I mostly play mage, warlock and priest currently at rank 7, but I've seen success with tempo rogue decks, otk paladin and control warrior, which covers almost all classes). Honestly, the card may not be balanced well but the only card making this deck consistent enough is Deathstalker Rexxar and anyone who fails to see that is ignorant. Heck, the chances are high that you won't even draw your spellstone until too late. I guess I'm not sick of hunter as I'm used to seeing much worse things in this game, but this seems like any other salt thread really. My advice from experience is if you're sick of the game atm, just take a break and come back after some time. Nerfing spellstone anytime soon is not likely to happen and it wouldn't fix the mess they brought the game into with the previous expansion, IMHO.
I'm glad that we were able to have a civil discussion. I wish you a nice day :D
It's not rng if you call - Amaz
Let's not get too excited about the pre-nerf meta. The pre-nerf meta may have been balanced, but it was also the boomsday meta, which was also basically the witchwood meta. It was time for some change, and so many people were fed up with every druid deck doing the exact same thing that it made sense for wild growth/nourish to get the axe.
I'm sure druid will get more ramp in the future, with wild growth and nourish gone there is a lot of space to make interesting new ramp cards. There's just very little space for new ramp cards to shake up how druid plays when wild growth and nourish are always there and are such strong options.
The hunter DK isn't undercosted.
It costs 6 mana to cast and two mana to use a hero power that initially does nothing that turn (that's a total of 8 mana, just like Anduin, just like Garrosh, and one more than Malfurion). You guys seem to have this bizarre perspective that the two mana that goes into creating a beast (again mana spent that does nothing, unlike Anduin or Malfurion) doesn't count towards the dk's mana cost. It's not like the two mana spent creating the zombeast actually reduces the cost of the beast. It's a two mana do nothing.