Title. It feels impossible to build anything that isn't hyper-aggro at this point thanks to so many infinite value cards. How are you supposed to compete against Dr. Boom, Zul'jin/Rexxar, or Frost Lich Jaina?
It feels like the only decks you can play and expect to compete with are combo decks, infinite value control decks, or hyper-aggro burn.
Honestly, Jaina is the biggest offender right now. She was already plenty powerful but the plethora of hero-power-modifying shenanigans one can do now just put her in overdrive.
Your best bet is to either nuker quickly (which is a tall order, but might be doable, or hope to mill the DK card.
Interesting, this value cards are lategame... (maybe Rexxar midgame)... don't know how it is in standart, but in wild you play mostly tempo games... a lot Even Shaman, Odd Rogue and Odd Paladin, they have won by that time you play one of this cards or they concede... second to them i see Kingsbane Rogues and Big Priests, they have lategame but not one of this cards you mentioned... if this cards weare so imba we would see more of them.
It's a little early to be hopping on the OP train don't you think? I'm a little sad that there isn't more midrangey decks out but outside of that a good representation of combo, aggro, and control is healthy, especially if multiple classes are represented. Mage was like T3 at the end of last season and got hit with more nerfs than any other class so I don't feel bad about getting new tools.
Interesting, this value cards are lategame... (maybe Rexxar midgame)... don't know how it is in standart, but in wild you play mostly tempo games... a lot Even Shaman, Odd Rogue and Odd Paladin, they have won by that time you play one of this cards or they concede... second to them i see Kingsbane Rogues and Big Priests, they have lategame but not one of this cards you mentioned... if this cards weare so imba we would see more of them.
+ 1
But don’t expect the majority of players to understand because they only play Standard.
Interesting, this value cards are lategame... (maybe Rexxar midgame)... don't know how it is in standart, but in wild you play mostly tempo games... a lot Even Shaman, Odd Rogue and Odd Paladin, they have won by that time you play one of this cards or they concede... second to them i see Kingsbane Rogues and Big Priests, they have lategame but not one of this cards you mentioned... if this cards weare so imba we would see more of them.
+ 1
But don’t expect the majority of players to understand because they only play Standard.
I'm seriously curious of what you're trying to build then, you mentioned you can only build aggro, combo or control decks, which are the three Archetypes that appear in card games by excellence and no i'm not obviating midrange, maybe you are forgetting to add one of those cards to your midrange decks? because: yes, midrange warrior should have boom.
Many of us told you Jade Idol was a slippery slope, but most kept telling people to stop complaining, play geist, or whatever the fuck.
Jade Idol opened the floodgates to infinite value that is now swamping the game. It will forever be the worst designed card.It was never a good idea, and it still isn't, despite the fact tghat now just about every class has a way of adding stupid numbers of cards to their 30 card (should be hardcoded) deck.
Title. It feels impossible to build anything that isn't hyper-aggro at this point thanks to so many infinite value cards. How are you supposed to compete against Dr. Boom, Zul'jin/Rexxar, or Frost Lich Jaina?
It feels like the only decks you can play and expect to compete with are combo decks, infinite value control decks, or hyper-aggro burn.
On the first item, it's WELL known about the high power level in the game. It's mostly thanks to last year's sets which are absolutely crazy. But this year's set is much lower in power level, meaning we're one more expansion away from fixing that issue in Standard.
Dr Boom and Zul'jin aren't anywhere NEAR the power of the old DKs. Boom is a great end card but can still be overwhelmed, especially when you realize it's mostly just throwing the occasional random mech or hitting something for 3 at a time in the game where 8 damage a turn is 'normal'. Zul'jin SEEMS insane but in the end, he clears the board then does a N'Zoth. Warlock's DK throws out 3/9s that turn into 3/9s and even that card is only insane because of that insane hero power. Zul'jin takes A LOT of cards to set up and one flamestrike neuters most of his effect. He's great, as expected of 10 mana, but good aggro can outrace him, good midrange can just laugh then burst him, and good control can wipe the board and pick apart the secrets later.
Once last year's cards go away, and assuming no one finds something utterly broken in Rumble that DOESN'T rely on last year's cards (and so far I don't think that's the case) we're in potentually a very good place.
As for the second question right now ALL of the decks aren't good examples of anything. They are unrefined and WAY too much silly stuff for folks to get distracted by and figure out what to do. THe decks that are working are those that can feed on these bad decks. We know LITERALLY NOTHING about what the meta is going to look like. #*$)#)* it's 2 DAYS SINCE RELEASE. During Kobold's and Catacombs we were STILL mocking Corridor Creeper as a bad card! During Blackrock Gang Up decks had a better win rate than Grim Patron Decks. During Old Gods everyone screamed for C'thun to be nerfed, unnerfed Yog was just a meme, Druid was worthless, and Shaman could only rush with "4 mana 7/7!"
So yes, you need an actual good deck to do anything reliable.
As far as archetypes, there's only 2 types that you didn't mention that even exist in the game: Tempo and Midrange. both of those are HARD to create compared to Aggro/Combo/Control and most don't make those by default. Everyone starts with Combo or Control because they want to see "Big numbers and big monsters doing big things." Then Aggro comes to punish the horribly bad Combo/Control decks. THEN people stop acting like kids and start making good decks, which is when Tempo/Midrange show up if they ever do.
So it's a little early to declare that they cant' exist yet.
Now if you want something that's not fast Aggro, neverending Tempo, Burst-from-hand Midrange, 'fun and interactive' Combo, or Infinitely unfair Control then yes that prior question applies, WTF ARE you looking for in a card game?
I honestly have no idea what you are talking of when you say hyper-aggro. It's been years since I last saw a pure face deck. Then again, I'm not familiar at all with the current Standard meta.
It feels like the only decks you can play and expect to compete with are combo decks, infinite value control decks, or hyper-aggro burn.
" It feels like the only decks you can play and expect to compete with are ...(goes to list all deck types except midrange and tempo, and both of them are competitive as well right now so should also be listed)."
You should wait until everything is settled before passing judgement. Right now there is at least one deck of each type with around a 60+% winrate on hsreplay.
I think hearthstone is just in that phase with 6 expansions being active. Remember at the end of the year of the mammoth there were nothing but broken decks: Cubelock, Kingsbane rogue, Spiteful priest, Jade druid or hyper aggro murloc paladin. Everything is actually more balanced now than then, and the only cards I would call broken are the death knights Rexxar, Gul'dan and Jaina.
Yes, right now the game is "broken"...or at least it feels like that since previous expansions completely eclipse new cards due to difference in power level.
Thing is...this is intentional. The year of the Raven has been intentionally weak, as Blizzard finally realized that infinite power creep ruins the game in the long run.
The game feels broken now because the bar has been set so high that only very specific builds can compete. If you don't have a combo to rival a turn 5 fully upgraed Emerald Spellstone then you just lose. that's why something like Rush Warrior or Pirate Rogue, despite not being bad decks by themselves, have such a hard time right now.
The amount of mana-cheat and instant tempo is just too much, and Blizzard purposefully creeated new cards that don't do that and honestly I feel like they're doing a good job at it too. This expansions right now is going to suck. That has to happen, there's no way aorund it. BUT, with the coming rotation the game is going to be INSTANTLY improved
Just consider how literally all the problem cards and decks right now are defined by year of the mammoth cards. I can count the deck defining cards frommm the year of the Raven on one hand. Giggling Inventor was literally the only card that had an a bove acceptable power level (by itself) and it got nerfed appropriately.
Think about how stuff like Odd Paladin is literally only this strong because of level up and Unidentified Maul and other K&C cards. Once the rotation comes the deck will change drastically if it even sticks around. I feel like the strongest unnerfed card from Raven we still have is Hench-Clan thug, and that thing can be dealt with somewhat easily
People may disagree but Blizzard has learned a lot about balance in the last year and it shows, and as long as the next expansion doesn'T immediately screw it up by powercreeping all over again we might just have a fresh and different meta then.
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I tried having fun once. It was awful.
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Title. It feels impossible to build anything that isn't hyper-aggro at this point thanks to so many infinite value cards. How are you supposed to compete against Dr. Boom, Zul'jin/Rexxar, or Frost Lich Jaina?
It feels like the only decks you can play and expect to compete with are combo decks, infinite value control decks, or hyper-aggro burn.
Unpopular opinion: Rogue is OP
Honestly, Jaina is the biggest offender right now. She was already plenty powerful but the plethora of hero-power-modifying shenanigans one can do now just put her in overdrive.
Your best bet is to either nuker quickly (which is a tall order, but might be doable, or hope to mill the DK card.
Interesting, this value cards are lategame... (maybe Rexxar midgame)... don't know how it is in standart, but in wild you play mostly tempo games... a lot Even Shaman, Odd Rogue and Odd Paladin, they have won by that time you play one of this cards or they concede... second to them i see Kingsbane Rogues and Big Priests, they have lategame but not one of this cards you mentioned... if this cards weare so imba we would see more of them.
It's a little early to be hopping on the OP train don't you think? I'm a little sad that there isn't more midrangey decks out but outside of that a good representation of combo, aggro, and control is healthy, especially if multiple classes are represented. Mage was like T3 at the end of last season and got hit with more nerfs than any other class so I don't feel bad about getting new tools.
+ 1
But don’t expect the majority of players to understand because they only play Standard.
Hence why I tagged it as "Standard".....
Unpopular opinion: Rogue is OP
Honestly, i'm fine with versing virtually any deck apart from odd paladin. Like come on, still using that deck after an expansion? What is fun
I auto-concede against odd pally. Don't care about climbing. I just want to play for fun. And that is the opposite of fun.
I'm seriously curious of what you're trying to build then, you mentioned you can only build aggro, combo or control decks, which are the three Archetypes that appear in card games by excellence and no i'm not obviating midrange, maybe you are forgetting to add one of those cards to your midrange decks? because: yes, midrange warrior should have boom.
In Wild: Yes
In Standard: No
Standard is actually well balanced for once but the problem is almost all decks are really boring to play tbh.
So many playable decks in Standart, so don't see a real problem here.
Wild 7 tier 1 decks 7 different classes last month.
Standard 5 tier 1 decks 3 classes last month.
I think wild is more balanced because EVERYTHING is op..also not boring to play
The real question is: Are you salty enough ?!
Many of us told you Jade Idol was a slippery slope, but most kept telling people to stop complaining, play geist, or whatever the fuck.
Jade Idol opened the floodgates to infinite value that is now swamping the game. It will forever be the worst designed card.It was never a good idea, and it still isn't, despite the fact tghat now just about every class has a way of adding stupid numbers of cards to their 30 card (should be hardcoded) deck.
On the first item, it's WELL known about the high power level in the game. It's mostly thanks to last year's sets which are absolutely crazy. But this year's set is much lower in power level, meaning we're one more expansion away from fixing that issue in Standard.
Dr Boom and Zul'jin aren't anywhere NEAR the power of the old DKs. Boom is a great end card but can still be overwhelmed, especially when you realize it's mostly just throwing the occasional random mech or hitting something for 3 at a time in the game where 8 damage a turn is 'normal'. Zul'jin SEEMS insane but in the end, he clears the board then does a N'Zoth. Warlock's DK throws out 3/9s that turn into 3/9s and even that card is only insane because of that insane hero power. Zul'jin takes A LOT of cards to set up and one flamestrike neuters most of his effect. He's great, as expected of 10 mana, but good aggro can outrace him, good midrange can just laugh then burst him, and good control can wipe the board and pick apart the secrets later.
Once last year's cards go away, and assuming no one finds something utterly broken in Rumble that DOESN'T rely on last year's cards (and so far I don't think that's the case) we're in potentually a very good place.
As for the second question right now ALL of the decks aren't good examples of anything. They are unrefined and WAY too much silly stuff for folks to get distracted by and figure out what to do. THe decks that are working are those that can feed on these bad decks. We know LITERALLY NOTHING about what the meta is going to look like. #*$)#)* it's 2 DAYS SINCE RELEASE. During Kobold's and Catacombs we were STILL mocking Corridor Creeper as a bad card! During Blackrock Gang Up decks had a better win rate than Grim Patron Decks. During Old Gods everyone screamed for C'thun to be nerfed, unnerfed Yog was just a meme, Druid was worthless, and Shaman could only rush with "4 mana 7/7!"
So yes, you need an actual good deck to do anything reliable.
As far as archetypes, there's only 2 types that you didn't mention that even exist in the game: Tempo and Midrange. both of those are HARD to create compared to Aggro/Combo/Control and most don't make those by default. Everyone starts with Combo or Control because they want to see "Big numbers and big monsters doing big things." Then Aggro comes to punish the horribly bad Combo/Control decks. THEN people stop acting like kids and start making good decks, which is when Tempo/Midrange show up if they ever do.
So it's a little early to declare that they cant' exist yet.
Now if you want something that's not fast Aggro, neverending Tempo, Burst-from-hand Midrange, 'fun and interactive' Combo, or Infinitely unfair Control then yes that prior question applies, WTF ARE you looking for in a card game?
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
Undatakah / Hadronox / Astral Tiger. Fun times.
I honestly have no idea what you are talking of when you say hyper-aggro. It's been years since I last saw a pure face deck. Then again, I'm not familiar at all with the current Standard meta.
" It feels like the only decks you can play and expect to compete with are ...(goes to list all deck types except midrange and tempo, and both of them are competitive as well right now so should also be listed)."
You should wait until everything is settled before passing judgement. Right now there is at least one deck of each type with around a 60+% winrate on hsreplay.
I think hearthstone is just in that phase with 6 expansions being active. Remember at the end of the year of the mammoth there were nothing but broken decks: Cubelock, Kingsbane rogue, Spiteful priest, Jade druid or hyper aggro murloc paladin. Everything is actually more balanced now than then, and the only cards I would call broken are the death knights Rexxar, Gul'dan and Jaina.
It's not rng if you call - Amaz
Yes, right now the game is "broken"...or at least it feels like that since previous expansions completely eclipse new cards due to difference in power level.
Thing is...this is intentional. The year of the Raven has been intentionally weak, as Blizzard finally realized that infinite power creep ruins the game in the long run.
The game feels broken now because the bar has been set so high that only very specific builds can compete. If you don't have a combo to rival a turn 5 fully upgraed Emerald Spellstone then you just lose. that's why something like Rush Warrior or Pirate Rogue, despite not being bad decks by themselves, have such a hard time right now.
The amount of mana-cheat and instant tempo is just too much, and Blizzard purposefully creeated new cards that don't do that and honestly I feel like they're doing a good job at it too. This expansions right now is going to suck. That has to happen, there's no way aorund it. BUT, with the coming rotation the game is going to be INSTANTLY improved
Just consider how literally all the problem cards and decks right now are defined by year of the mammoth cards. I can count the deck defining cards frommm the year of the Raven on one hand. Giggling Inventor was literally the only card that had an a bove acceptable power level (by itself) and it got nerfed appropriately.
Think about how stuff like Odd Paladin is literally only this strong because of level up and Unidentified Maul and other K&C cards. Once the rotation comes the deck will change drastically if it even sticks around. I feel like the strongest unnerfed card from Raven we still have is Hench-Clan thug, and that thing can be dealt with somewhat easily
People may disagree but Blizzard has learned a lot about balance in the last year and it shows, and as long as the next expansion doesn'T immediately screw it up by powercreeping all over again we might just have a fresh and different meta then.
I tried having fun once. It was awful.