Ok. I totally agree with the Mana Wyrm nerf. This card was totally broken and a snowball. In any case, without considering the nerfs the druid deserved, I would like to see also the nerf for the Northshire Cleric and for Tunnel Trogg in wild. The point is that 1 mana 1/3 with effects is broken, that's it. So I don't see the reason why the mage lost his 1 mana broken drop and priest and shaman still have it. In order to be fair, now, also the mana cost for Northshire Cleric and Tunnel Trogg should increase to 2. Priest players will now say that Northshire Cleric is not as strong as Mana Wyrm. Ok it is true, but it is very very strong as 1 drop and now it is the best 1 drop in standard and second best one drop after Tunnel Trogg in wild.
The point is that 1 mana 1/3 with effects is broken, that's it.
That's not the point. Mana wyrm was both a crazy snowbally card AND limited designed space as Blizzard was afraid to print cheap spells for Mage because they go over the top with pre-nerf Wyrm. I would argue that Trogg is in a similar category, but that card is in Wild where strong and unfair cards get more of a free pass because most players that play that format know what they are getting into.
Cleric isen't disrruptive 1 drop, the Trogg, well. it needs a nerf, being almost as the Mana Wyrm snowball was at 1 mana, sometimes more broken than the mana wyrm-
Stats are not the problem, there are a lot of 1 mana 1/3, some of them even didn't see play.
it doesn't do anything if you don't heal minions, and unless you are deperate to find an specific card from your deck you have no time to heal your minons, + agro decks usually spend a buff or a card to kill early minions and win the board fast
edit, games where the go first cleric helps a lot can happen, but you can only trade 1 minion at the same time, and aggro decks, base their strategy on put a lot of bodies on the board to trade, and , yes draw once can give you the card that you need, sometimes, but sometimes is not the case, and you lose anyways, i don't know if i'm clear enough
Cleric against aggro is a win condition. You play her on turn one and you can trade more or less everything. Sometimes aggro is forced to lose one turn and pass turn 1 if you have the cleric on board. Cleric is very very strong. Too strong. I don't see the point in destroy and aggro deck like tempo mage and keep always the control tools too strong. We want op control tools, then everyone is bored about the meta because we have only fights for half and hour.
And if you think about it. Clearic is the best one drop in standard for the priest, a class that doesn't have aggro deck. Don't you think that it is absurd? Aggro, needs the best 1 drops otherwise is not aggro, not the priest.
yes but most of aggro decks have answers for that, have them at the rigth moment is exactly like have the cleric for the priest against an aggro without an answer, could be the case, or could not.
You are not winning just because you have a cleric but you are winning cause you have it and your opponent can't deal with it, like priest will lose if it does not draw a boarclear early even if he can get a draw one or twice from the cleric
If you are able to make the aggro deck to pass turn 1 and/or 2 or draw one or 2 cards with the cleric (like board clears) you will win probably due to the Cleric, so yes she is a win condition against aggro, like it was Mana Wyrm against control decks.
I do agree and thank you for the thought! But, if you ask me, I think the main difference between Mana Wyrm and the other 1-drops is what you can do on JUST the first turn.
Blizzard said it themselves saying that too many matches against Mage's were ended because their Mana Wyrm got an early snowball and became too difficult to handle during the mid-game. With just one mana, you could play Mana Wyrm, The Coin, and then Mirror Image or Arcane Missles. On just the first turn, you have a 3/3 and ethier destroyed your opponents one drop or have summoned two additional 0/2's. That only makes it easier for Mages to snowball. Next turn, you can play Primodrial Glyph and depending on what you pick, play a 0-mana cost spell. That's two beneficial spells played in your favor and an extra +2 on your Mana Wyrm that have "charge".
Northshire Cleric can be played on turn one and... that's it. It doesn't matter what you use The Coin for after that, you're not going to get any value out of her on THAT first turn. Tunnel Trogg definitely has some opportunity to scale on the first turn, but I personally don't think that it's as powerful as the way a Mage can scale on the first turn.
Keep in mind that I'm not trying to say that these cards have terrible snowball. That would be wrong. I'm just weighing in on these cards in their merit of what can be done with just ONE mana.
"The point is that 1 mana 1/3 with effects is broken" read better. In any case I should say 1/3 with broken effects. Crystallizer is not a broken effects. At least for now (Until we will not have a deck able to abuse and use armor as win condition or damage received as win condition).
In terms of Tunnel Trogg, which was just discussed on The Angry Chicken on Tuesday, it's likely not on their radar at all right now. For the moment, Even Shaman in wild and standard are very dominant decks. To give you some perspective, HS Replay's data for Ranked Wild shows Murkspark Eel is played in 48.3% of Shaman decks. Tunnel Trogg is in 5.4% of decks. Tunnel Trogg's deck/played win rates are 57% and 54%. Eel has 66% and 58% respectively.
So while Tunnel Trogg is still effective and may indeed need a nerf, it's highly unlikely right now due to a lack of Trogg seeing play compared to other types of Shaman cards. And if there is one it'll likely be something like making it a 1/2, as changing the mana cost to 2 would just buff the Even Shaman deck in Wild.
One snowballing 1 drop not on your list is Secretkeeper, which can be just as bad as a card like Mana Wyrm as playing a secret with this card on board gives it +1/+1. So while the triggers are more limiting, I wouldn't actually mind seeing this card become a 1/3 but only gain +1 attack per secret. But similar to Tunnel Trogg, it's not seeing a huge amount of play right now so likely no changes coming there.
"The point is that 1 mana 1/3 with effects is broken" read better. In any case I should say 1/3 with broken effects. Crystallizer is not a broken effects. At least for now (Until we will not have a deck able to abuse and use armor as win condition or damage received as win condition).
I did read properly. The armor thing is technically a effect. Whether or not it's broken is purely subjective. One can argue being a beast is an effect too. You can play crackling razormaw on your mole and get +attack. This combo gives about the same stats as tunnel trogg totem golem except it doesn't overload you. Glow-Tron is another 1/3 with an effect. You can stick your warbot on this and get in there for 6 or magnetize this to make value trades in the mid-lategame
Are these 1/3s that can have powerful effects? Yes. Do they need nerfs? No
Cleric case is totally different, Mana Wyrm was a 1-drop that was extremely snowbally and could decide games just by being played on turn 1. It also limits the space to print good low cost spells for mage, just look and all the good cheap spells printed lately were all played on tempo mage and all the other cheap spells were terrible and would not see play on absolutely any mage so there's that as well.
In regards of Tunnel Trogg, yes, it's absolutely busted and it has always been. the only 1-drop that has historically been worse is pre-nerf Undertaker. But I think the fact that blizzard just refuses to print good early aggro cards is a huuuge problem, the decks he are seeing now are mostly just greedy late game shit of some sort, either that or some kind of heavy synegies... I'm not saying that I enjoy cards like Trogg or Undertaker being the best in the meta but there has to be cards that support aggro archetypes (Early drops like Flame Imp for example) or the game is just gonna become baka warrior vs. baka warrior type shit and half an hour games do not sound fun to me at all.
I don't really consider cleric that effective of a anti-agro tool. If you are using turn 2 to just heal a cleric you're falling behind on tempo. It is good but not as good as wyrm or trog.
You’re essentially complaining about “3 mana, draw a card and maybe trade into a minion” in the case of Northshire Cleric. Unless it gets a quick PW:S (in which case you’re not getting that extra draw on turn 2 without the coin), it dies to Flame Imp. It dies to any one drop plus Odd Rogue dagger. It’s pretty bad against Wandering Monster.
It’s nice against a Kobold Librarian and one health divine shield minions, but you’re overstating its turn 1 impact, IMO. Its value comes from versatility: serving a function even late game in control matchups.
Ok. I totally agree with the Mana Wyrm nerf. This card was totally broken and a snowball. In any case, without considering the nerfs the druid deserved, I would like to see also the nerf for the Northshire Cleric and for Tunnel Trogg in wild. The point is that 1 mana 1/3 with effects is broken, that's it. So I don't see the reason why the mage lost his 1 mana broken drop and priest and shaman still have it. In order to be fair, now, also the mana cost for Northshire Cleric and Tunnel Trogg should increase to 2. Priest players will now say that Northshire Cleric is not as strong as Mana Wyrm. Ok it is true, but it is very very strong as 1 drop and now it is the best 1 drop in standard and second best one drop after Tunnel Trogg in wild.
That's not the point. Mana wyrm was both a crazy snowbally card AND limited designed space as Blizzard was afraid to print cheap spells for Mage because they go over the top with pre-nerf Wyrm. I would argue that Trogg is in a similar category, but that card is in Wild where strong and unfair cards get more of a free pass because most players that play that format know what they are getting into.
Cleric isen't disrruptive 1 drop, the Trogg, well. it needs a nerf, being almost as the Mana Wyrm snowball was at 1 mana, sometimes more broken than the mana wyrm-
Stats are not the problem, there are a lot of 1 mana 1/3, some of them even didn't see play.
If you think better Cleric is a distruptive one drop. Against aggro.
it doesn't do anything if you don't heal minions, and unless you are deperate to find an specific card from your deck you have no time to heal your minons, + agro decks usually spend a buff or a card to kill early minions and win the board fast
edit, games where the go first cleric helps a lot can happen, but you can only trade 1 minion at the same time, and aggro decks, base their strategy on put a lot of bodies on the board to trade, and , yes draw once can give you the card that you need, sometimes, but sometimes is not the case, and you lose anyways, i don't know if i'm clear enough
Crystallizer OP! Blizz plz nerf
Legend with : S65 Freeze Mage, S57 Maly Gonk Druid, S57 "Okay" Shaman, S53 Boom-zooka Hunter, S53 Maly Tog Druid, S52 Wild Tog Druid ft.Blingtron, S50 Quest Rogue, S49 Dead Man's Warrior, S41 Wild Clown Fiesta Druid, S41 Hadronox Jade Druid, S40 Wild OTK Dragon Druid, S35 SMOrc Shaman, S33 Jade Druid, S22 Control Priest, S19 Control Priest
Cleric against aggro is a win condition. You play her on turn one and you can trade more or less everything. Sometimes aggro is forced to lose one turn and pass turn 1 if you have the cleric on board. Cleric is very very strong. Too strong. I don't see the point in destroy and aggro deck like tempo mage and keep always the control tools too strong. We want op control tools, then everyone is bored about the meta because we have only fights for half and hour.
And if you think about it. Clearic is the best one drop in standard for the priest, a class that doesn't have aggro deck. Don't you think that it is absurd? Aggro, needs the best 1 drops otherwise is not aggro, not the priest.
yes but most of aggro decks have answers for that, have them at the rigth moment is exactly like have the cleric for the priest against an aggro without an answer, could be the case, or could not.
You are not winning just because you have a cleric but you are winning cause you have it and your opponent can't deal with it, like priest will lose if it does not draw a boarclear early even if he can get a draw one or twice from the cleric
If you are able to make the aggro deck to pass turn 1 and/or 2 or draw one or 2 cards with the cleric (like board clears) you will win probably due to the Cleric, so yes she is a win condition against aggro, like it was Mana Wyrm against control decks.
I do agree and thank you for the thought! But, if you ask me, I think the main difference between Mana Wyrm and the other 1-drops is what you can do on JUST the first turn.
Blizzard said it themselves saying that too many matches against Mage's were ended because their Mana Wyrm got an early snowball and became too difficult to handle during the mid-game. With just one mana, you could play Mana Wyrm, The Coin, and then Mirror Image or Arcane Missles. On just the first turn, you have a 3/3 and ethier destroyed your opponents one drop or have summoned two additional 0/2's. That only makes it easier for Mages to snowball. Next turn, you can play Primodrial Glyph and depending on what you pick, play a 0-mana cost spell. That's two beneficial spells played in your favor and an extra +2 on your Mana Wyrm that have "charge".
Northshire Cleric can be played on turn one and... that's it. It doesn't matter what you use The Coin for after that, you're not going to get any value out of her on THAT first turn. Tunnel Trogg definitely has some opportunity to scale on the first turn, but I personally don't think that it's as powerful as the way a Mage can scale on the first turn.
Keep in mind that I'm not trying to say that these cards have terrible snowball. That would be wrong. I'm just weighing in on these cards in their merit of what can be done with just ONE mana.
Thank you! :)
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Or Dire Mole.
Everything that says +1/+1 for a repeatable action is suspect. Looking at you Hench-Clan Thug
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
"The point is that 1 mana 1/3 with effects is broken" read better. In any case I should say 1/3 with broken effects. Crystallizer is not a broken effects. At least for now (Until we will not have a deck able to abuse and use armor as win condition or damage received as win condition).
OP has never heard of Flame Imp.
In terms of Tunnel Trogg, which was just discussed on The Angry Chicken on Tuesday, it's likely not on their radar at all right now. For the moment, Even Shaman in wild and standard are very dominant decks. To give you some perspective, HS Replay's data for Ranked Wild shows Murkspark Eel is played in 48.3% of Shaman decks. Tunnel Trogg is in 5.4% of decks. Tunnel Trogg's deck/played win rates are 57% and 54%. Eel has 66% and 58% respectively.
So while Tunnel Trogg is still effective and may indeed need a nerf, it's highly unlikely right now due to a lack of Trogg seeing play compared to other types of Shaman cards. And if there is one it'll likely be something like making it a 1/2, as changing the mana cost to 2 would just buff the Even Shaman deck in Wild.
One snowballing 1 drop not on your list is Secretkeeper, which can be just as bad as a card like Mana Wyrm as playing a secret with this card on board gives it +1/+1. So while the triggers are more limiting, I wouldn't actually mind seeing this card become a 1/3 but only gain +1 attack per secret. But similar to Tunnel Trogg, it's not seeing a huge amount of play right now so likely no changes coming there.
I did read properly. The armor thing is technically a effect. Whether or not it's broken is purely subjective. One can argue being a beast is an effect too. You can play crackling razormaw on your mole and get +attack. This combo gives about the same stats as tunnel trogg totem golem except it doesn't overload you. Glow-Tron is another 1/3 with an effect. You can stick your warbot on this and get in there for 6 or magnetize this to make value trades in the mid-lategame
Are these 1/3s that can have powerful effects? Yes. Do they need nerfs? No
Legend with : S65 Freeze Mage, S57 Maly Gonk Druid, S57 "Okay" Shaman, S53 Boom-zooka Hunter, S53 Maly Tog Druid, S52 Wild Tog Druid ft.Blingtron, S50 Quest Rogue, S49 Dead Man's Warrior, S41 Wild Clown Fiesta Druid, S41 Hadronox Jade Druid, S40 Wild OTK Dragon Druid, S35 SMOrc Shaman, S33 Jade Druid, S22 Control Priest, S19 Control Priest
Cleric case is totally different, Mana Wyrm was a 1-drop that was extremely snowbally and could decide games just by being played on turn 1. It also limits the space to print good low cost spells for mage, just look and all the good cheap spells printed lately were all played on tempo mage and all the other cheap spells were terrible and would not see play on absolutely any mage so there's that as well.
In regards of Tunnel Trogg, yes, it's absolutely busted and it has always been. the only 1-drop that has historically been worse is pre-nerf Undertaker. But I think the fact that blizzard just refuses to print good early aggro cards is a huuuge problem, the decks he are seeing now are mostly just greedy late game shit of some sort, either that or some kind of heavy synegies... I'm not saying that I enjoy cards like Trogg or Undertaker being the best in the meta but there has to be cards that support aggro archetypes (Early drops like Flame Imp for example) or the game is just gonna become baka warrior vs. baka warrior type shit and half an hour games do not sound fun to me at all.
I don't really consider cleric that effective of a anti-agro tool. If you are using turn 2 to just heal a cleric you're falling behind on tempo. It is good but not as good as wyrm or trog.
You’re essentially complaining about “3 mana, draw a card and maybe trade into a minion” in the case of Northshire Cleric. Unless it gets a quick PW:S (in which case you’re not getting that extra draw on turn 2 without the coin), it dies to Flame Imp. It dies to any one drop plus Odd Rogue dagger. It’s pretty bad against Wandering Monster.
It’s nice against a Kobold Librarian and one health divine shield minions, but you’re overstating its turn 1 impact, IMO. Its value comes from versatility: serving a function even late game in control matchups.
I really hate Northshire Cleric on first turn. My only 1 turn drops are Argent Squire and Righteous Protector, my only 2 turn drop is Prince Keleseth. If I play them, then I lose to a 1 mana minion, heh.