I know that Yu-Gi-Oh has mechanics that discard cards from your opponent's hand, and it's seen as a competitive game, so why is it such a big deal in Hearthstone?
Dirty Rat is one of the very few macro play HS cards that can make or break your game to the point of no return. If you fail to see it, then you should probably invest some more time in the strategic aspect of HS.
Taking into consideration the mulligan strategies, playing the rat with combos (MC) or removals, etc. and you will see the countless potential rewards (and risks). Well known mechanic in card games.
Like I said to OP here, we've had Ancestor's Call and Deathlord for ages now. This is nothing new, at all, period, the end. The fact that people are taking to having an issue with a card like this, just hilarious. It can both win and lose games for people. Hell, I don't mind losing when I actually coin it out on turn 1, because I like taking a chance. It's not a "step in the wrong direction" because reward and risk go hand in hand with many games. If you don't play like you mean to win, you'll always lose.
MSoG is a return to the Naxx/GvG days. Dirty Rat is a return to Deathlord, Dragonfire Potion is a return to Lightbomb. This is a really great expansion. Sure, there are balance issues. But honestly, there's nothing wrong with the card.
Ancestors call was a 4 cost spell, not a 2 mana 2/6 and it was during a time where shaman didn't see much play and it takes considerably more to set up than a dirty rat play.
Deathlord was a deathrattle and it pulled from your deck, not you hand, which is a huge difference. Deathlord only really saw play in priest, because of the high health it had, meaning priest could keep it alive long enough to get to a point where they could handle anything that comes from the deathrattle.
Right now Dirty Rat hardly ever backfires, so it's like a 2 mana 2/6 taunt with <10% of a drawback. The main decks people play currently are pirate and reno, over 90% of games are against these archetypes, pulling a random minion from warrior/shaman only matter if player using rat didn't account for a 7/7. Playing it against a rogue will either win you the game (killing auctioneer instantly) or have no impact. Against reno decks is where it's shining right now, very few run big minions, sometimes you see a rag or a ysera, but for the most part you're pulling out minions that have very powerful battlecries, so it's just adding a coin flip to win you the game or do nothing.....What I'm trying to say is that it needs an innate drawback, such as a higher cost and not being over statted.
Maybe somewhere down the line when pirate decks stop being able to lethal in 4 turns, people can start curving above 6, playing bigger minions that would make dirty rat actually have a drawback.
Let's see... Magic The Gathering CCG have been around for more than 20 years. A game where you can discard (not put into play) cards from your opponent's hand, and a game where you can destroy an opponents ressources (mana crystals).. So 20+ years of succes is dumb game mechanics?
I started playing M:TG in 1993. In 1994 had a Black 'Discard' deck that reked all local tounney's. Can't WAIT until HS bring mechanics like this into the game. Thoungh they'd have to have cards to counter that kind of play (think 'Howling Mine' in M:TG).
Like I said to OP here, we've had Ancestor's Call and Deathlord for ages now. This is nothing new, at all, period, the end. The fact that people are taking to having an issue with a card like this, just hilarious. It can both win and lose games for people. Hell, I don't mind losing when I actually coin it out on turn 1, because I like taking a chance. It's not a "step in the wrong direction" because reward and risk go hand in hand with many games. If you don't play like you mean to win, you'll always lose.
MSoG is a return to the Naxx/GvG days. Dirty Rat is a return to Deathlord, Dragonfire Potion is a return to Lightbomb. This is a really great expansion. Sure, there are balance issues. But honestly, there's nothing wrong with the card.
Ancestors call was a 4 cost spell, not a 2 mana 2/6 and it was during a time where shaman didn't see much play and it takes considerably more to set up than a dirty rat play.
Deathlord was a deathrattle and it pulled from your deck, not you hand, which is a huge difference. Deathlord only really saw play in priest, because of the high health it had, meaning priest could keep it alive long enough to get to a point where they could handle anything that comes from the deathrattle.
Right now Dirty Rat hardly ever backfires, so it's like a 2 mana 2/6 taunt with >10% of a drawback. The main decks people play currently are pirate and reno, over 90% of games are against these archetypes, pulling a random minion from warrior/shaman only matter if player using rat didn't account for a 7/7. Playing it against a rogue will either win you the game (killing auctioneer instantly) or have no impact. Against reno decks is where it's shining right now, very few run big minions, sometimes you see a rag or a ysera, but for the most part you're pulling out minions that have very powerful battlecries, so it's just adding a coin flip to win you the game or do nothing.....What I'm trying to say is that it needs an innate drawback, such as a higher cost and not being over statted.
Maybe somewhere down the line when pirate decks stop being able to lethal in 4 turns, people can start curving above 6, playing bigger minions that would make dirty rat actually have a drawback.
pretty much what iv been saying the whole time... plus i just don't like the mechanic... I like otk decks and i understand that there should be better counter to otk decks... there is quit a few way to do this I just don't believe that throwing a card out of the opponents hand should be one of them... card like lotheb I liked a lot even though it was more of a aggro/tempo card then a control card and cards that give armor or healing is good aswell...
Like I said to OP here, we've had Ancestor's Call and Deathlord for ages now. This is nothing new, at all, period, the end. The fact that people are taking to having an issue with a card like this, just hilarious. It can both win and lose games for people. Hell, I don't mind losing when I actually coin it out on turn 1, because I like taking a chance. It's not a "step in the wrong direction" because reward and risk go hand in hand with many games. If you don't play like you mean to win, you'll always lose.
MSoG is a return to the Naxx/GvG days. Dirty Rat is a return to Deathlord, Dragonfire Potion is a return to Lightbomb. This is a really great expansion. Sure, there are balance issues. But honestly, there's nothing wrong with the card.
Ancestors call was a 4 cost spell, not a 2 mana 2/6 and it was during a time where shaman didn't see much play and it takes considerably more to set up than a dirty rat play.
Deathlord was a deathrattle and it pulled from your deck, not you hand, which is a huge difference. Deathlord only really saw play in priest, because of the high health it had, meaning priest could keep it alive long enough to get to a point where they could handle anything that comes from the deathrattle.
Right now Dirty Rat hardly ever backfires, so it's like a 2 mana 2/6 taunt with >10% of a drawback. The main decks people play currently are pirate and reno, over 90% of games are against these archetypes, pulling a random minion from warrior/shaman only matter if player using rat didn't account for a 7/7. Playing it against a rogue will either win you the game (killing auctioneer instantly) or have no impact. Against reno decks is where it's shining right now, very few run big minions, sometimes you see a rag or a ysera, but for the most part you're pulling out minions that have very powerful battlecries, so it's just adding a coin flip to win you the game or do nothing.....What I'm trying to say is that it needs an innate drawback, such as a higher cost and not being over statted.
Maybe somewhere down the line when pirate decks stop being able to lethal in 4 turns, people can start curving above 6, playing bigger minions that would make dirty rat actually have a drawback.
You just outlined how to beat players that run Dirty Rat. You have no excuse anymore if you know how to play against it. A 2/6 taunt for 2 mana is an Anti-Aggro tool. The only people with an issue are aggro players. That's the point. If I can die in four turns to an aggro deck, why can't I play a 2/6 taunt?
Oh, and what exactly did you outline, in regards to beating Dirty Rat? PLAY. MORE. BIG. MINIONS. PERIOD. END OF STORY. I purposely played Dirty Rat against a Rogue and gave them an Auctioneer, because I didn't care what they had in their hand. I lost, and I didn't care. Wanna know why? Because I can't be bothered to care. There are much more intensive mechanics in other games, like locking down an entire board so your opponent can't play anything, destroy resources, discarding your opponent's cards. You're lucky you aren't dealing with that right now, because those are staple mechanics in other games.
Deathlord doesn't fuck up Battlecry effects for the opponent? You've seen Dr. Boom come out of a Deathlord before, right? Losing 2-10 damage is a pretty big deal, let's be real here. There's nothing wrong with having Dirty Rat in the game, especially when you consider... you ALREADY know how to beat it.
Either get with the times, or quit. Refusing adjusting to how a game works means you refuse to learn, understand, and become better. Two choices, 'sall you got, and all you'll ever have.
how is it though? i am speaking of the mechanic of playing another players minion and not about putting a reactionary card in your deck that needs to as the word says react to something... dirty rat is a counter play that does not react to anything and thats that shet i don't like (bang bang)
I know that Yu-Gi-Oh has mechanics that discard cards from your opponent's hand, and it's seen as a competitive game, so why is it such a big deal in Hearthstone?
It's an issue because Hearthstone is a game that caps decks at 30, one of the lowest maximum deck sized in all the TCG world. Cards are valuable, so much so that being forced to play something against your will, whether it be a tempo play or a forced play, people hate that, but most people understand why it's a mechanic that exists.
Combo decks is my favorite archetype (i play all though), and even though combo decks gets destroyed by Dirty Rat - I still love the card! It's hard to use right, it gives the good players a edge - and most importantly: If we have more cards that breaks combo like this it would mean that Blizzard wouldn't have to nerf (aka remove) every single combo deck that ever gets to exist.
I'm actually hoping that we will get more cards like this. (and i don't even own the card)
Loatheb isn't an aggro card. It's a control card. People play it on curve because it curves well. It's not an aggro card though. It can be put into aggro decks, but it usually fits better in with control.
Dirty rat is fun, pulled out my ragnaros twice during early days of expansion when it saw quite a bit of play. Epic turn one coin rat ragnaros concede combo, and both times i played a beast hunter fail opening hand xD
You just outlined how to beat players that run Dirty Rat. You have no excuse anymore if you know how to play against it. A 2/6 taunt for 2 mana is an Anti-Aggro tool. The only people with an issue are aggro players. That's the point. If I can die in four turns to an aggro deck, why can't I play a 2/6 taunt?
Since MSoG I've played next to no pirate decks, mostly reno decks and some dragon priest and jade druid. I play Dirty rat in my reno decks, because it's broken, I can't remember any game I have lost solely because I've used it, on the other hand I've won many games because of it...I have a very good idea of how to play it. It may have been designed as an anti-aggro card, but right now it's biggest impact is when it;s played against combo decks and reno decks, pulling out a Kazakus or a Kun/Avianna is a far bigger issue for those decks than a warrior having to put 6 damage into it.
Oh, and what exactly did you outline, in regards to beating Dirty Rat? PLAY. MORE. BIG. MINIONS. PERIOD. END OF STORY.
You're completely ignoring what I'm saying, right now in the meta you cannot play big minions. Which means the 2 mana 2/6 very rarely has a drawback. Putting a couple of greedy cards into you deck to have a slightly higher chance of winning off the back of your opponent playing a specific card is a terrible idea.
I purposely played Dirty Rat against a Rogue and gave them an Auctioneer, because I didn't care what they had in their hand. I lost, and I didn't care. Wanna know why? Because I can't be bothered to care.
Just because you enjoy making terrible plays and losing, doesn't mean other people do.
There are much more intensive mechanics in other games, like locking down an entire board so your opponent can't play anything, destroy resources, discarding your opponent's cards. You're lucky you aren't dealing with that right now, because those are staple mechanics in other games.
And are any of those games as successful as Hearthstone?
Deathlord doesn't fuck up Battlecry effects for the opponent? You've seen Dr. Boom come out of a Deathlord before, right? Losing 2-10 damage is a pretty big deal, let's be real here. There's nothing wrong with having Dirty Rat in the game, especially when you consider... you ALREADY know how to beat it.
Either get with the times, or quit.
What are you even talking about here? When did I ever say that Deathlord didn't stop battlecries?
Refusing adjusting to how a game works means you refuse to learn, understand, and become better. Two choices, 'sall you got, and all you'll ever have.
You're just making assumptions that I lose to often Dirty Rat, which is untrue. I have lost a few games when my opponent has played it, but I've always played around it as best I can, by holding minions in my hand if I'm also holding valuable battlecry minions. But sometimes people win the coin flip and win games from the back of it, which is why I don't like the card.
I'll say it again, Dirty Rat right now has far too few drawbacks, the meta is too fast to play big minions. So what ends up being pulled from it is either something insignificant or something with a powerful battlecry or combo potential.
I don't mind the Card TBH....BUT.....if ya had to have it reworked, maybe a "random minion from YOUR DECK" would be better. The prob. people have with it I feel is that if it's play on early curve, the minion you get into play is a low cost minion. Most low cost minions you'd play because they have a nice effect when played; and ya don't get that effect when pulled by Dirty Rat
You could also have it read "(minion from hand)...minion effects tigger as if summoned". That may work to I guess. Just some thoughts. :)
You just outlined how to beat players that run Dirty Rat. You have no excuse anymore if you know how to play against it. A 2/6 taunt for 2 mana is an Anti-Aggro tool. The only people with an issue are aggro players. That's the point. If I can die in four turns to an aggro deck, why can't I play a 2/6 taunt?
Since MSoG I've played next to no pirate decks, mostly reno decks and some dragon priest and jade druid. I play Dirty rat in my reno decks, because it's broken, I can't remember any game I have lost solely because I've used it, on the other hand I've won many games because of it...I have a very good idea of how to play it. It may have been designed as an anti-aggro card, but right now it's biggest impact is when it;s played against combo decks and reno decks, pulling out a Kazakus or a Kun/Avianna is a far bigger issue for those decks than a warrior having to put 6 damage into it.
Oh, and what exactly did you outline, in regards to beating Dirty Rat? PLAY. MORE. BIG. MINIONS. PERIOD. END OF STORY.
You're completely ignoring what I'm saying, right now in the meta you cannot play big minions. Which means the 2 mana 2/6 very rarely has a drawback. Putting a couple of greedy cards into you deck to have a slightly higher chance of winning off the back of your opponent playing a specific card is a terrible idea.
I purposely played Dirty Rat against a Rogue and gave them an Auctioneer, because I didn't care what they had in their hand. I lost, and I didn't care. Wanna know why? Because I can't be bothered to care.
Just because you enjoy making terrible plays and losing, doesn't mean other people do.
There are much more intensive mechanics in other games, like locking down an entire board so your opponent can't play anything, destroy resources, discarding your opponent's cards. You're lucky you aren't dealing with that right now, because those are staple mechanics in other games.
And are any of those games as successful as Hearthstone?
Deathlord doesn't fuck up Battlecry effects for the opponent? You've seen Dr. Boom come out of a Deathlord before, right? Losing 2-10 damage is a pretty big deal, let's be real here. There's nothing wrong with having Dirty Rat in the game, especially when you consider... you ALREADY know how to beat it.
Either get with the times, or quit.
What are you even talking about here? When did I ever say that Deathlord didn't stop battlecries?
Refusing adjusting to how a game works means you refuse to learn, understand, and become better. Two choices, 'sall you got, and all you'll ever have.
You're just making assumptions that I lose to often Dirty Rat, which is untrue. I have lost a few games when my opponent has played it, but I've always played around it as best I can, by holding minions in my hand if I'm also holding valuable battlecry minions. But sometimes people win the coin flip and win games from the back of it, which is why I don't like the card.
I'll say it again, Dirty Rat right now has far too few drawbacks, the meta is too fast to play big minions. So what ends up being pulled from it is either something insignificant or something with a powerful battlecry or combo potential.
1: Blizzard has stated several times in the past that they don't like combo decks to begin with, particularly things like Kun/Avianna as that is an OTK deck.
3: I purposefully play a 35 legend deck in wild because that's super fun when it works out.
4: Magic the Gathering has been going strong for 23 years now. They have cards that basically say "Your opponent can't do more than one thing per turn." They recently released a card that literally states "your opponent can only uptap two permanents during their untap step." Which is essentially saying "Your opponent can draw a card and use 2 mana, that's it."
5: You didn't state it, you implied it.
6: Then why are you even complaining? Dirty Rat is far more balanced than most other combo pieces in the pat, I.E. Grim Patron (Pre Warsong Nerf)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I know that Yu-Gi-Oh has mechanics that discard cards from your opponent's hand, and it's seen as a competitive game, so why is it such a big deal in Hearthstone?
Dude is just angry he couldnt get a guaranteed OTK
Dirty Rat is one of the very few macro play HS cards that can make or break your game to the point of no return. If you fail to see it, then you should probably invest some more time in the strategic aspect of HS.
Taking into consideration the mulligan strategies, playing the rat with combos (MC) or removals, etc. and you will see the countless potential rewards (and risks). Well known mechanic in card games.
"The world outside is so big, but it's safe in my domain
Because to you I'm just a number and a clever screen name..."
I THINK FOR MYSELF, THEREFORE.... I'M AN ATHEIST !!!
The only problem is that, for some dumb reason, it's random.
So it makes it stupid instead of cool.
Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice - Sneak Review! http://www.thepoxbox.com/challenges.php?id=batmanvsuperman
This is like saying eater of secrets is ridiculous because it destroyed 3 of your secrets and gave him a 4 mana 5/7
And while dirty rat is fun, it backfires more often than not. There are combos involving it like dirty rat + brawl, or dirty rat + twisting nether.
If you run a deck that is ruined if a single minion is pulled from your hand then you either take that risk or you find a way to adjust.
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
Come visit my Card Emporium. Strange things, you will find inside...
Come take the test, if you're daring. Feel free to show me your results in a message.
how is it though? i am speaking of the mechanic of playing another players minion and not about putting a reactionary card in your deck that needs to as the word says react to something... dirty rat is a counter play that does not react to anything and thats that shet i don't like (bang bang)
I'd compare Dirty Rat to Loatheb. It's just a card that your opponent might play and ruin your lovely plan, a perfectly mastered lethal.
Except that it might also give you one :)
Auto squelch. That's all I'm asking for.
Come visit my Card Emporium. Strange things, you will find inside...
Come take the test, if you're daring. Feel free to show me your results in a message.
I don't mind it. You just need to mulligan differently when you know you're facing a Dirty Rat deck.
Example: I tend to keep Flamewreathed Faceless or Frothing Berserker in my opening hand in case they play an early Dirty Rat
Combo decks is my favorite archetype (i play all though), and even though combo decks gets destroyed by Dirty Rat - I still love the card!
It's hard to use right, it gives the good players a edge - and most importantly: If we have more cards that breaks combo like this it would mean that Blizzard wouldn't have to nerf (aka remove) every single combo deck that ever gets to exist.
I'm actually hoping that we will get more cards like this. (and i don't even own the card)
Loatheb isn't an aggro card. It's a control card. People play it on curve because it curves well. It's not an aggro card though. It can be put into aggro decks, but it usually fits better in with control.
Come visit my Card Emporium. Strange things, you will find inside...
Come take the test, if you're daring. Feel free to show me your results in a message.
Dirty rat is fun, pulled out my ragnaros twice during early days of expansion when it saw quite a bit of play. Epic turn one coin rat ragnaros concede combo, and both times i played a beast hunter fail opening hand xD
Question everything.
I don't mind the Card TBH....BUT.....if ya had to have it reworked, maybe a "random minion from YOUR DECK" would be better. The prob. people have with it I feel is that if it's play on early curve, the minion you get into play is a low cost minion. Most low cost minions you'd play because they have a nice effect when played; and ya don't get that effect when pulled by Dirty Rat
You could also have it read "(minion from hand)...minion effects tigger as if summoned". That may work to I guess. Just some thoughts. :)
"The world outside is so big, but it's safe in my domain
Because to you I'm just a number and a clever screen name..."
I THINK FOR MYSELF, THEREFORE.... I'M AN ATHEIST !!!
That feeling when you're playing against reno lock and you pull his reno jackson <3
Dirty rat is totally fine. I like using him with mind control tech in my reno mage deck.