Doomguard - Make it not go face the turn it's played and discard only 1 card instead of 2.
Knife Juggler - Make it proc only on minions played (Possibly revert it's stats back to a 3/2).
So it turns out there are just 10 cards left in the game that I would want changed and none of them are close to Undertaker or Tuskarr Totemic levels....wow, that's not bad at all! GJ Team 5! :D
What is Hearthstone to you? A fun and semi-competitive game with wacky effects and crazy RNG outcomes or just a card game you wanna grind as many wins you can get as fast as possible in?
SO basically every card that is remotely strong should be nerfed until the only cards playable are those that you deem fair?
Heaven forbid any class has some sort of strengths. Everything must be in a constant state of mediocrity.
You know what we should really do? make only three cards: rock, paper, and scissors. This way games are truly decided by skill and only draw-RNG remains.
I mean, seriously you can't just nerf everything just because you got beaten by it a few times.
You mean I should focus on becoming a better player instead of whining about cards that are too good? But then who's gonna cry on the forums and beg for nerfs? Blizzard pls
The irony here is that cards that are too good makes the game LESS skillfull, and more boring -- causing the game to be less fun to play for EVERYONE, and the forums more interesting, as a result.
Playing wild right now, and... it's just a coin toss. Who draws their 35 mana value 10 mana minion first? 1st game: He did? Oh. Shoot. 2: I did? YAY! 3: Oh. He did? Dammit! 4: AGAIN? Twice in a row! 5: *Sigh* 6: Oh. I drew the generic overpowered win condition first. I'm totally superior to my opponent, and not merely lucky as hell. Yay.!
Doomguard - Make it not go face the turn it's played and discard only 1 card instead of 2.
Knife Juggler - Make it proc only on minions played (Possibly revert it's stats back to a 3/2).
So it turns out there are just 10 cards left in the game that I would want changed and none of them are close to Undertaker or Tuskarr Totemic levels....wow, that's not bad at all! GJ Team 5! :D
Flamewaker: I think making Flamewaker cost 4 mana would be a pretty large nerf. It leaves tempo mages without a turn 3 play which might be pretty harmful to the archetype. I would want a new 3 mana mage minion to be printed if this happened.
Fireball I think 5 damage is a great idea. Look at Mortal Strike for instance. In order to deal 6 damage you have to pay a very large price. It doesn't make sense that warriors have to pay such a large price for 6 burst damage while mages can do it whenever they want.
Divine Favor: I hate this card's design and I think the best nerf to this card would be akin to the Charge nerf we saw recently. Change how the card functions while functioning similarly to the original design. So, I don't think a mana change would solve the problems with this card.
Mysterious Challenger: This card should be nerfed hard but not made unplayable. Paladin's basic set is filled with worthless secrets that never saw play until Mysterious Challenger was released. Nerfing the Challenger would result in these cards never being played again. I think the card should get a redesign that still allows for paladins to play secrets.
Doomhammer: If this were to be nerfed, I would want Rockbiter Weapon reverted back to it's original cost.
Frothing Berserker: Good nerf, would still see play in decks like Patron Warrior.
Conceal:I think a redesign would the best way to change this card. Increasing mana wouldn't bother Rouge that much since they have access to Preparation and Tomb Pillager. The card would probably also see play since Rouge is lacking heals and having stealth could prevent a lot of damage. Though Flare should be changed to all characters lose stealth if this change was implemented.
Power Overwhelming: 2 mana would be a great nerf since it would also prevent a third copy from being discovered from Dark Peddler.
Also, here are some cards that I think could be changed:
Kill Command: Change it to, give a minion +3 attack this turn, if it's a beast, give it +5 attack instead. This way Beast synergy is still encouraged in Hunter but you can't use the spell to bypass taunts and deal a crap ton of damage to the face.
Thing from Below: Give it Knight of the Wild's text; Whenever you summon a totem, reduce the cost of this minion by (1). Maybe decrease it's cost to 5 to make it more playable.
Darkshire Councilman: I have two possible ways to nerf this. Either give it the proposed Knife Juggler treatment where it only works for played minions, or decrease it's health a bit, since 5 health is very sticky and hard to get rid of.
Flamewaker: I think making Flamewaker cost 4 mana would be a pretty large nerf. It leaves tempo mages without a turn 3 play which might be pretty harmful to the archetype. I would want a new 3 mana mage minion to be printed if this happened.
Mysterious Challenger: This card should be nerfed hard but not made unplayable. Paladin's basic set is filled with worthless secrets that never saw play until Mysterious Challenger was released. Nerfing the Challenger would result in these cards never being played again. I think the card should get a redesign that still allows for paladins to play secrets.
Doomhammer: If this were to be nerfed, I would want Rockbiter Weapon reverted back to it's original cost.
Also, here are some cards that I think could be changed:
Kill Command: Change it to, give a minion +3 attack this turn, if it's a beast, give it +5 attack instead. This way Beast synergy is still encouraged in Hunter but you can't use the spell to bypass taunts and deal a crap ton of damage to the face.
Thing from Below: Give it Knight of the Wild's text; Whenever you summon a totem, reduce the cost of this minion by (1). Maybe decrease it's cost to 5 to make it more playable.
Darkshire Councilman: I have two possible ways to nerf this. Either give it the proposed Knife Juggler treatment where it only works for played minions, or decrease it's health a bit, since 5 health is very sticky and hard to get rid of.
Well it's gonna rotate out from Standard soon anyways so they probably will be getting another 3-drop very soon also Spellslinger is a possibility and will still be in Wild, the archetype do base itself on spell synergy, it doesn't have to be as consistent as Flamewaker.
I agree Mysterious Challenger shouldn't be made completely unplayable, but nerfing it pretty hard from it's current state would probably still leave it very strong...like having it pull 2 secrets from your deck would still be good for a 6 mana 6/6 and it makes you not incentivised to fill your deck with crappy secrets just to get that unfair advantage when you play this card while still encouraging you to play some secrets and more than just 1 copy of them.
Rockbiter Weapon wasn't nerfed purely because of Doomhammer, it was nerfed because it was so versatile, easy to use and cheap for what it did.
I don't understand why they didn't go with that Knife Juggler nerf in the first place, they surely must have thought about it and tested it....it also prevents it from proccing off deathrattles which is a pretty big thing.
I have thought about a nerf for Kill Command, but I hadn't come up with something good for it, also it's not really THAT overpowered since you can somewhat play around it by making sure you remove all the beasts forcing Hunter to also play a cheap beast the turn he wants to KC your face. I like your suggestion there as long as it would stay as a permanent buff and not just until end of turn.
Thing from Below should probably get that exact nerf yeah, good idea! Even as a 5 mana 5/5 taunt it's not that bad!
Darkshire Councilman would be pretty bad if it only procced of played minions I think, I'd rather see his health changed to 4.
Steward of Darkshire would also suck pretty hard if it only procced of played minions, I think this is fine, but if I were to change it I would make it a 4 mana 4/4 to make it harder to pull of some combos.
5) N'Zoth, the Corruptor -> 10 mana 5/7 "Summon up to three 3 mana or lower and up to three 4 mana or higher deathrattle minions that died under your control this game -> wild is basically go n'zoth or hyper aggro, since the midway is non existant. Even CW need to use N'Zoth. This will lower the power level of the card a bit. Now you can't resummon 2 belcher, a shredder, tirion, sylvanas and cairne all at the same time
N'Zoth, the Corruptor is ridiculously strong, but it's a 10 mana legendary and require you to kinda build your deck around it so I think it's fine.
Innervate way too strong. Savannah Higmane powerful card. Should be a legendary or have it's stats lowered. Totem Golem dumb card. Should be 3/3. Arcane Giant so Molten Giant is a problem and this isn't??? Flamewreathed Faceless i will never accept this card Huffer change him to 4/3 deathrattle summon a 1/1 beast and noone else will have a problem with ''call of the win''
Innervate and Savannah Highmane are iconic cards for their classes and while I do agree Highmane is probably the sickest 6-drop in the game on average, it's a somewhat slow, late game, class specific minion in a class which has a hero power that can only go face so it's okay I think.
Totem Golem is a huge reason for why Shaman became relevant again, removing or nerfing that would have a huge negative impact on the class due to mostly just hero powering on T2, I feel it's better to nerf other cards than this even though I agree it's crazy strong!
Arcane Giant isn't so bad I think, it's just inconsistent of Blizzard to nerf Molten Giant and then introduce this into the game...I'd rather they just revert the Molten Giant nerf or at least make it cost 22 mana instead of 25.
Flamewreathed Faceless is pretty sickening to face up against when you don't have an answer, but when you do have an answer to this it's pretty sickening for the Shaman so I'd rather see more efficient removal added or maybe redo the Big Game Hunter nerf...make it 4 mana instead.
I like your suggested change to Huffer, even though he would still be super strong like that! Thing is though that Huffer has become kind of a meme and something iconic for the Hunter class so I doubt we'll be seeing a change to him.
What is Hearthstone to you? A fun and semi-competitive game with wacky effects and crazy RNG outcomes or just a card game you wanna grind as many wins you can get as fast as possible in?
Divine Favor this card is just ridiculous and it's beyond me Blizzard did nothing about this card! (...)
I read somewhere they consider the card to be fine because the draw isn't consistent. But I do agree with you, this is the most paradoxical card. With a Control deck, you can't play around it and get punished for your game plan : getting value and being smart with your removals.
When I get Divine-Favored, I have the same feeling as the old Buzzard + unleash Combo. Being punished for doing things right.
Perhaps the problem is that you believe doing things the same way vs every opponent is "right."
If you're up against an aggressive Paladin who is playing multiple cards every turn, maybe it's not smart at all to try to get maximum value out of every card you play. If your deck is so on-curve and inflexible that you literally cannot play more than one card per turn, then I think it is perfectly valid and healthy for the game to have a card that punishes you for that inflexibility.
Assuming that there is a single "right" way to play or build a deck is the worst possible way to think about this game.
I feel a card that forces you to just throw away all your cards and give up on any strategy your deck might have just in case he draws it and has the "skill" to puke all his cards out on the board before playing it is a pretty clear sign of it being overpowered.
There is a limit to how much you should have to play around a single card.
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What is Hearthstone to you? A fun and semi-competitive game with wacky effects and crazy RNG outcomes or just a card game you wanna grind as many wins you can get as fast as possible in?
How about this boys: Divine Favor same mana cost, draw a card for each missing card up to three cards (i know wording is fucked up, but this is the best i can do :-) Basically if you only have broken favor in your hand and your opponent has 9 cards, you will only draw 3 cards.
This would still be pretty strong yet balanced imo.
I get what you want, limit it to drawing 3 cards, but I don't feel that exact change would be a very elegant solution.
Maybe it could be: 4 mana, "Draw 2 cards. Draw an additional card if your opponent has more cards in hand than you."
Still not in love with the wording, but it fits on a card and it's pretty clear what it does so I guess it's alright :P
Btw, the card counting would occur after the 2 cards are drawn, so if you had 3 cards in hand and your opponent had 5 cards when you play this you would just draw 2 cards, but if he had 6 cards you'd draw 3.
I think 4 mana would be fitting for this as you'd mostly play it to draw 3 cards and drawing 3 cards is worth more than 4 mana, hence why it's conditional...still a very good card and now a lot more useful overall across several different archetypes ;)
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What is Hearthstone to you? A fun and semi-competitive game with wacky effects and crazy RNG outcomes or just a card game you wanna grind as many wins you can get as fast as possible in?
This thread is seriously looking like the nerf version of the rant thread. An a mod please pin this and make this the official thread for nerf requests?
I'm serious.
This is actually a really good idea. It's not like as if Blizzard actually reads these forums, or cares about actual balance outside of their machine collected metrics, so...
ONE Nerf thread should be enough.
Blizzards reads forums and is extremely active on reddit nuff said
The problem is most rants are bullshit....and the thread where people are making their own balances...ha, c'mon, just look at these :D
Blizzard reads forums. The keyword those is 'these'.
They read the main forums. They read reddit. They don't come here. Writing here is similar to commenting on a random video on youtube and demanding the president take your request seriously.
If you want to be heard by blizzard. Visit the forums they actually read, or contact them via email or twitter. As an alternative, go to the contact locations of the various influential people in HS so that they can bring your ideas effectively to blizzard.
All we are doing here is privately communicating with each other.
I feel a card that forces you to just throw away all your cards and give up on any strategy your deck might have just in case he draws it and has the "skill" to puke all his cards out on the board before playing it is a pretty clear sign of it being overpowered.
There is a limit to how much you should have to play around a single card.
"Play a few more cards and be less greedy for value" is not the same as "throw away all your cards and give up on any strategy."
If Divine Favor were as broken as you claim, pros would not be able to play around it successfully. But they do, and they win in matchups you seem to think should be unfavored where this card is present. Once again, there is a vast gulf between your perceptions and experiences and the way other people deal with the realities of the game. You assume you are doing everything correctly and don't bother to look around at how others deal with a situation.
If the card were are unfair as you say, it would be causing aggressive Paladin decks to be wildly successful. But aggressive Paladin decks aren't exactly burning up the ladder, which just goes to show that even with this card, they aren't all that great. It's a card that helps a suboptimal archetype, one that probably wouldn't exist at all for Paladin if this card weren't there to help it out.
So once again, it appears that you have a personal dislike of aggressive decks and are singling out cards that make you feel bad when you see them, regardless of their overall performance. I am not asking others to see you in this light; I am telling you that this is what you look like.
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
I feel a card that forces you to just throw away all your cards and give up on any strategy your deck might have just in case he draws it and has the "skill" to puke all his cards out on the board before playing it is a pretty clear sign of it being overpowered.
There is a limit to how much you should have to play around a single card.
"Play a few more cards and be less greedy for value" is not the same as "throw away all your cards and give up on any strategy."
If Divine Favor were as broken as you claim, pros would not be able to play around it successfully. But they do, and they win in matchups you seem to think should be unfavored where this card is present. Once again, there is a vast gulf between your perceptions and experiences and the way other people deal with the realities of the game. You assume you are doing everything correctly and don't bother to look around at how others deal with a situation.
If the card were are unfair as you say, it would be causing aggressive Paladin decks to be wildly successful. But aggressive Paladin decks aren't exactly burning up the ladder, which just goes to show that even with this card, they aren't all that great. It's a card that helps a suboptimal archetype, one that probably wouldn't exist at all for Paladin if this card weren't there to help it out.
So once again, it appears that you have a personal dislike of aggressive decks and are singling out cards that make you feel bad when you see them, regardless of their overall performance. I am not asking others to see you in this light; I am telling you that this is what you look like.
I think people want to nerf Divine Favor because it's designed badly. It essentially rewards players for vomiting their hand. It's not broken now, but it could be a problem in the future. I think people want to nerf it in order to stop a potential problem in the future.
I feel a card that forces you to just throw away all your cards and give up on any strategy your deck might have just in case he draws it and has the "skill" to puke all his cards out on the board before playing it is a pretty clear sign of it being overpowered.
There is a limit to how much you should have to play around a single card.
"Play a few more cards and be less greedy for value" is not the same as "throw away all your cards and give up on any strategy."
If Divine Favor were as broken as you claim, pros would not be able to play around it successfully. But they do, and they win in matchups you seem to think should be unfavored where this card is present. Once again, there is a vast gulf between your perceptions and experiences and the way other people deal with the realities of the game. You assume you are doing everything correctly and don't bother to look around at how others deal with a situation.
If the card were are unfair as you say, it would be causing aggressive Paladin decks to be wildly successful. But aggressive Paladin decks aren't exactly burning up the ladder, which just goes to show that even with this card, they aren't all that great. It's a card that helps a suboptimal archetype, one that probably wouldn't exist at all for Paladin if this card weren't there to help it out.
So once again, it appears that you have a personal dislike of aggressive decks and are singling out cards that make you feel bad when you see them, regardless of their overall performance. I am not asking others to see you in this light; I am telling you that this is what you look like.
Unless you are also running an aggro deck there is no way to really play around it slightly and not have it be incredibly OP when the aggro paladin draws it.
If you wanna play around this and you are playing a control deck you'll have to make sure you play as many cards as possible every single turn for the whole game as most of your cards cost more than 3-4 mana...that usually will mean having to use them highly suboptimally and give up on any form of strategy you might have planned for them in your deck as you just need to get them out of your hand as quick as possible....still it will usually draw 3+ cards for just 3 mana even when you do this...OP? Yes, very much so^^
What's holding aggro Paladin back in Standard is not that this card isn't OP enough, it's that the early game of Paladin isn't good enough atm and you can only run 2 Divine Favor so you can't just rely on them, you need to have other somewhat decent cards in your deck as well. In Wild it's the fact that secret Paladin is so much better due to Mysterious Challenger that there really isn't much point playing aggro Paladin over that, that deck is pretty much just as fast anyways.
And once again you are accusing me of suggesting this purely due to my own interest in control decks and dislike of aggro, so you are going ad hominem, you are attacking the man instead of the argument itself....clearly you disagree with me, I sure as hell disagree with you, but I'm not argumenting by saying you are a braindead aggrotard who can't win games without relying on broken cards, instead I'm calmly expressing my opinion about the cards I feel are worthy of a change and how I'd like to see it changed for the betterment of the game.
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What is Hearthstone to you? A fun and semi-competitive game with wacky effects and crazy RNG outcomes or just a card game you wanna grind as many wins you can get as fast as possible in?
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So to summarize my thoughts regarding what nerfs or changes I'd like to see after input from everyone:
Flamewaker - Increase it's cost to 4 mana.
Fireball - Reduce it's damage to 5.
Divine Favor - Increase it's mana cost to 5.
Mysterious Challenger - Just nerf it hard!
Doomhammer - Make it cost 7 mana and no overload.
Frothing Berserker - Make it proc of friendly characters taking damage instead of all minions.
Conceal - Maybe let it stealth your hero for a turn instead?
Power Overwhelming - Increase it's cost to 2 mana.
Doomguard - Make it not go face the turn it's played and discard only 1 card instead of 2.
Knife Juggler - Make it proc only on minions played (Possibly revert it's stats back to a 3/2).
So it turns out there are just 10 cards left in the game that I would want changed and none of them are close to Undertaker or Tuskarr Totemic levels....wow, that's not bad at all! GJ Team 5! :D
What is Hearthstone to you?
A fun and semi-competitive game with wacky effects and crazy RNG outcomes or just a card game you wanna grind as many wins you can get as fast as possible in?
Playing wild right now, and... it's just a coin toss.
Who draws their 35 mana value 10 mana minion first?
1st game: He did? Oh. Shoot.
2: I did? YAY!
3: Oh. He did? Dammit!
4: AGAIN? Twice in a row!
5: *Sigh*
6: Oh. I drew the generic overpowered win condition first. I'm totally superior to my opponent, and not merely lucky as hell. Yay.!
Am I the only one who thinks that Savannah Highmane is like, pretty op? Getting a 6/5 body + 2*2/2 means you get 10/9 worth of stats for six mana.
Doomhammer: If this were to be nerfed, I would want Rockbiter Weapon reverted back to it's original cost.
I like your suggestion there as long as it would stay as a permanent buff and not just until end of turn.
Thing is though that Huffer has become kind of a meme and something iconic for the Hunter class so I doubt we'll be seeing a change to him.
What is Hearthstone to you?
A fun and semi-competitive game with wacky effects and crazy RNG outcomes or just a card game you wanna grind as many wins you can get as fast as possible in?
M/C need to be nerf since doing so would by it self give wild a better environment and more fun and no complaints mode.
Arcane giants needed and molten unnerfed
Doomhammer take away overload and the widfury.
Nerf requests are still around bro , you can find them in the "salt thread" ^^
They don't want to nerf wild cards, I could see a world where they change power overwhelming though.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
I feel a card that forces you to just throw away all your cards and give up on any strategy your deck might have just in case he draws it and has the "skill" to puke all his cards out on the board before playing it is a pretty clear sign of it being overpowered.
There is a limit to how much you should have to play around a single card.
What is Hearthstone to you?
A fun and semi-competitive game with wacky effects and crazy RNG outcomes or just a card game you wanna grind as many wins you can get as fast as possible in?
What is Hearthstone to you?
A fun and semi-competitive game with wacky effects and crazy RNG outcomes or just a card game you wanna grind as many wins you can get as fast as possible in?
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
These threads are ridiculous.
Let's nerf everything and play with vanilla minions.
Better yet, let's nerf Hearthstone all together and go play chess instead (real chess, not that boring brawl)
Kappa
N'Zoth is easily countered by control and comes too late against aggro and midrange.
There have been and are cards in HS that need nerf, but FFS stop whining about cards that are strong but neither op or unbalanced.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
every time the card or class nerf , the next op card and class will come out. this cycle will continue.
everyone will complain when the loses to own mistake, rng or bad match up. impossible for blizzard to make everyone happy.
In Wild it's the fact that secret Paladin is so much better due to Mysterious Challenger that there really isn't much point playing aggro Paladin over that, that deck is pretty much just as fast anyways.
What is Hearthstone to you?
A fun and semi-competitive game with wacky effects and crazy RNG outcomes or just a card game you wanna grind as many wins you can get as fast as possible in?