I would advice against using Argus, in my opinion he is highly above other heroes in terms of strenght and even size lore-wise.
As for the other two, if you are going heavily for a Shadowlands/Anima theme the ghost is probably better. If it is more of a mortal using the type of powers/magic on Azeroth (or Outlands...) I would go with that Draenei lass.
here ^ is my basic card set (+ a few initiate but don’t look) and I’d love people’s feedback. I made a spiritwalker class 6 years ago and it was awful so I’m trying again!
Anima Infusion seems way too good, even if it doesn't give attack, that's 2 more stats over Power Infusion.
Ethereal Form, can't use Immune in Basic. Also interesting how your spiritwalker class uses Immune, I had the same concept with my Spiritwalker many years ago.
The class kinda feels like a priest but with northshire cleric turned from a minion into a general playstyle... I do see totems later on, so maybe it'll be a priest/shaman mix, who knows.
I’m cutting it pretty close here on getting my submission in for this competition, as it took me some time to figure out the intricacies of creating cards and getting them posted in this. I sorta still have a few things to figure out as well, primarily on how to set custom card borders. That said, I elected to use the neutral border on my cards for now, and will set a custom border on the rest of my cards once I have the time to sort that out. For now though, I want to introduce my first custom class submission, The Villager. The common people of Azeroth don’t excel in combat or magic, but that doesn’t mean that you should count them out when it comes to competition. Through hard work and devotion, they’ve mastered cooperation and an ingenious use of their resources to achieve powerful synergies, sturdy minions, and unique effects built around their professions. Their hero power, It Takes a Village, exemplifies their reliance on teamwork and available resources to survive by summoning Farmhands who will supply you with a Wheat card upon death. Wheat has the unique ability to raise your hero’s health past the normal 30 Health limit.
I just posted my submission, anyone who didn't should hurry up, I think. Also, 2 questions to McF4rtson: Will there be a voting phase, as usual, or just ratings based on likes in submission thread? And, are 3-cost Hero Powers allowed?
Some late feedback:
@Klaytonio
Your class is kinda cool, I like it. Make sure to not make it too much centered on your Hero Power, so a player would have tools for other strategies. I feel like Marksman Scope is kinda bad tho, maybe 4 Durability could work.
@Jengus
Your cards look realy good, and well put together. I am not sure abut two things: your Hero Power - are actualy 3-Cost Powers legitimate? I mean, I see you are qquite in contact with McF4rtson, so maybe you know better, but I was pretty sure you can't use them, so that looks kinda weird, and while I think it actualy is not a bad idea, I am not sure if that's not a bit unfair if you're the only one who knew they're not banned. Also, I think that like 2-cost Powers are equal to 0-cost spells, that 3-mana Hero Power should be 1-mana spell effect. That means, I'd say it's already good if your hero power just draws a card, without cost-reduction, because so far it looks like much better warlock's Hero Power. The second thing is your keyword - I feel like it's quite overcomplicated for hearthstone standards. Also, you should state in description that it summons a minion from hand.
@Nightmyria
Unfortunately, I can only see those cards you added to posts as attachements. That means I can't see your Hero Power, and that I see only 6 cards of your Basic set, making this less than required. Not sure how I can help with it. Did you make sure to put images of your cards in place other than Hearthcards, like Imgur? Custom class borders are available at hearthcards in 'choose a class' section. I am not sure if there are weapon buffs in your set, but if no, I don't see much point for Riot Shield. Also, again I am not sure how much Wheat generators are in your set, nor what Wheat does on its own, but Visit to the Market looks rather weak.
@McF4rtson
Like most of your classes, this also looks very solid. Not sure if there is much to change honestly, except that you should look carefully through Silithus Battlemaiden's text - you included 'and' twice.
@McF4rtson , I'm digging that Drone haha. I like how the class cards and HP all builds off of each other. But the power level looks a little funky to me. The Prophet is a Powershot that heals 6, and leaves a healing 2/2 behind. Metamorphosis is pretty bonkers--its a 4m 5/6 at a basic level. How do you choose between TFang modes?
As other have said maybe it is a little too hero power-centric, almost your entire basic set revolves around it. I would also say orc agent is pretty weak without explosive round.
As for your positioning cards, I created a class last year with a "middlemost" gimmick as well so I will look forward to what you can think of.
@McF4rtson , I'm digging that Drone haha. I like how the class cards and HP all builds off of each other. But the power level looks a little funky to me. The Prophet is a Powershot that heals 6, and leaves a healing 2/2 behind. Metamorphosis is pretty bonkers--its a 4m 5/6 at a basic level. How do you choose between TFang modes?
Will tone down the prophet to leave a 1/1 behind.
It's pretty tough balancing metamorphosis since it requires a Larva, and if I place it at +4/+4, then that is just a chillwind yeti. I'll think about it.
Toxic Fangs just brings up a choose one menu if you have armor, otherwise, it just takes the mana.
I don't know how but i forgot to submit 10 cards. i only had 8 and i added another 2 just now, i hope that's alright. I'd hate to be disqualified on phase 1 for such a stupid mistake, which no one else pointed out btw.
I don't know how but i forgot to submit 10 cards. i only had 8 and i added another 2 just now, i hope that's alright. I'd hate to be disqualified on phase 1 for such a stupid mistake, which no one else pointed out btw.
You're good, I'm not too strict with this kind of stuff.
Hey, just wanted to pop in here cause I always love to try to be a part of these competitions. It's good to know everyone gets through the 1st phase. I hope to be able to provide feedback in the discussion for the next; this week just turned out to be way to turbulent for me to put aside the time for other reviews let alone development of my own cards, but I'm glad I was able to submit something.
Sorry I've been inactive towards the end part of phase 1. Feedback now is a bit useless but i thought i'd at least comment on a few balance problems i saw a lot of people make in the submission thread.
I think the text on Sand Blast shouldn't say "Next time you play this card" as that leads to confusion. You cannot replay the same card, you only play other copies of Sand Blast which isn't the same thing.
Blessings of the Bronze is arguably a better Sound the Bells!. It does only give 1 Health but it costs 1, making it an unconditional symmetric buff. It's Blessing of Kings, unconditional Bloodfury Potion, Demonheart. Acting as a 2 mana +2/+2 and 1 mana +1/+1 is a bit worse than average but from 3 mana onwards it's just better. Plus it's flexible.
If you have to shrink the card text by more than -4 or -5 to fit then the text is too long and needs reworking.
Path Finder does not specify if the shuffled cards are random, thus leading to the idea that you could choose which ones, something not possible in Hearthstone sadly.
My main criticism is your Keryword. It works fine as an *expansion* keyword, but as a class one it's kinda bad. Lets look a bit at class keywords in game: Combo is a condition for an effect, Choose one is a choice between 2 effects, Outcast is a condition for an effect, Overload is the only bad one, like all shaman things in general, but it acts as a drawback to powerful effects. You get the trend? None of them are things in of themselves, but conditions for other stuff. How is infected going to work out? You'll have cards that infect minions, ok, but they all do the same thing, they won't be original. What i'm trying to say is that it's too limited, it doesn't allow for innovation. It's not the condition of something cool to happen, it IS the "cool" thing that's happening.
The mill cards are fine but i believe they won't be received well by the audience, mill decks are pretty hated by the community at large.
I must say you are my favorite class. Having a named token and interacting with it is an awesome idea which i am totally not gonna steal for future comps.
This might sound nitpicky but i don't really like your card arts. They don't have a constant style, they vary wildly from hyper realism (Shot Right Through, Double Barrel Shotgun) too goofy cartoony (Orc Agent) and anime (Laser Ray). You should try to find a more cohesive visual style. I'm not one for sticking strictly to the hearthstone style but the cards should at least be similar in style with each other.
Power Surge is just Blessing of Kings though i assume the armor will have more interactions. Still you could have made it a 3 mana +3/+3 or 4 mana +3/+5 to differentiate a bit more.
I don't want to sound harsh as this seems to be your first... post on the site lol. Hope you actually read this. Please use the discussion threads before posting, you have a lot of issues, and i don't want to discourage you, i like your enthusiasm so don't read this as me belittleing you, i just want to help.
Your Hero Power is bad. Toki in the adventure had a lot of RNG cards that had, well, random effects, and so you could rewind to try the RNG wheel again in hopes of a better reward. You have no randomness in your cards. And besides all that, the hero power is weird and not much use. Look at basic hero powers in general, they all can be used to generate a small effect. Deal 1 damage, restore 2 health, draw a card. When would you use your hero power? It's too niche.
Run the Clock is bad. I understand what your intentions were, to have the Nozdormu effect on at all times and benefit from it. That is not a bad idea but think of how players will most likely use this card: they will wait until the rope is burning. This is one of the most toxic and hated things in the community, they even have a term for it, roping. You can find endless threads complaining about players roping to annoy their opponents, and this card promotes exactly that.
Rewind is technically a better Recycle as you not only remove the minion from the board, but you deny them a card draw. It costs more than Sap but not letting the enemy draw a card is well worth the 2 extra mana.
Reset is a more expensive Vanish... as you yourself pointed out. Why copy an existing card and make it worse? At 8 mana it's a worse Twisting Nether, and Vanish also had Preparation to make it even cheaper.
Bronze Dragon Mount is not a bad concept but a turn in Hearthstone lasts 75 seconds. The rope burns when there are only 20 seconds left. The vast majority of opponents can play just fine in 55 seconds. Nozdormu itself was not really played cause 15 seconds was enough for most opponents.
The idea of reducing enemy turn duration is in of itself a touchy subject. It might annoy combo players and control players, and in general it feels bad for the opponent.
Don't take this criticism to heart, you did some great stuff too. i like the pocket watch and Clockwork Keeper, i think you should go more into this direction.
Same criticism as Klaytonio, your art styles are all over the place. Stitcher Ghoul uses art of an existing card (Ghoul token from Arrogant Crusader, Val'kyr Soulclaimer, Necrotic Geist and Vryghoul. Endless Death is just a crop of a pixel art weapon with a blank background. Invoke Darkness looks like someone left a red ink stain on the card.They don't look good together.
"Summon a new copy" is worded wrong, the "New" isn't needed.
Tricks of the Trade doesn't need you to have a weapon to cast it, so it is very often a straight 2 mana Arcane Intelect. You should have said "Destroy your weapon to draw 2 cards"
Hero Power seems a bit reckless. This class will die to fatigue super fast, i'm not sure how you intend to proceed with it. You can't rely on any combo or control playstyle cause you burn random cards from your deck with every tap. Not sure how you will balance this.
Sharpen is unclear. Are the minions random? if you don't mention the word then it means you get to choose, including for the deck and hand which isn't possible in Hearthstone.
Strongest isn't a thing in hearthstone sadly. You have to say highest attack or health or cost.
Damn this took ages to write. As closing thoughts, i'd suggest everyone to look a bit at older hearthstone cards to make sure your cards are not weaker or stronger versions of pre-existing cards. Also for those looking for card art, join up the custom hearthstone discord: https://discord.gg/TRRy3zFr.
They have an entire channel full of hearthstone-like art to use for custom cards, you can look up stuff by keywords too. Just type "in: art-gallery" then what you are looking for (warlock, fire, human, soldier, dagger, etc).
While a lot of your feedback is valid, the fact is that balance just isn't the same as it used to be. There has been a fair bit of powercreep over the last few expacs, so one-to-one comparisons are still useful, but not always the end all be all. If you use only old cards and don't take into consideration the current meta and card power levels, your class will be... "too fair".
Even Blizzard acknowledges this with their buffs to basic cards in the core set, and some of them still don't see play. Instead of using older cards as something set in stone, I would just look at the card and give it a sanity check. For example, excess chitin compared to iron hide. Iron hide saw absolutely 0 play and was printed many years ago, so it stands to reason excess chitin should cost 1 rather than 2, which would make it unplayable. Conversely, if you make it 4 armor, then you have to consider Armor Vendor. Yes it gives the opponent 4 armor as well, but giving a faster opponent 4 armor when you are trying to slow down their fast damage means your armor is worth more than theirs. A 1/3 is also a very strong turn 1 play that develops the board, unlike a 0/1.
I agree a lot of old cards are bad, but we have to use something for reference still. I try to not just copy an old card and slap an extra efect or +1 attack or health on top in an effort to find original and fresh ideas. Plus, the basic set is supposed to be pretty low power level in general with vanilla level balance.
Of course i am only 1 person i don't devide the absolutes, but i do believe that if powercreep is generally not liked by the community and your card is an obvious powercreep, you will leave a less favorable impression on the voters.
I only point out how cards stack up with already existing cards, mainly cause i played this game for so long i know every single card in it. It's up to everyone to device whether to change their cards or not.
Slapping an effect on a card or minor tweaks doesn't necessarily mean it is lazy or uninspired, after all, your unleash the whelps is basically the same as unleash the hounds. And I actually disagree with you, the basic set is not meant to be weak, it is meant to be simple. You wouldn't call fireball weak, blessing of kings weak, or holy nova weak.
I think at the end of the day, also being a player that knows every card and has been creating custom cards for honestly way too long lmao, it just so happens to be differing card design philosophies. I see the direction the game is heading in, much stronger cards (large powercreep like new Alex and illidari inquisitor vs king krush all the way to minor powercreep like spawnpool forager vs Murmy and possessed villager) more synergy between cards to the point of entire archetypes, that sort of thing. It comes down to knowing how far you can push your cards, the difference being your class will be mediocre in terms of power and may not have the tools to compete, vs you go too far, like what blizz did with DH. We shall see what the voters have to say, I suppose.
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I would advice against using Argus, in my opinion he is highly above other heroes in terms of strenght and even size lore-wise.
As for the other two, if you are going heavily for a Shadowlands/Anima theme the ghost is probably better. If it is more of a mortal using the type of powers/magic on Azeroth (or Outlands...) I would go with that Draenei lass.
Anima Infusion seems way too good, even if it doesn't give attack, that's 2 more stats over Power Infusion.
Ethereal Form, can't use Immune in Basic. Also interesting how your spiritwalker class uses Immune, I had the same concept with my Spiritwalker many years ago.
The class kinda feels like a priest but with northshire cleric turned from a minion into a general playstyle... I do see totems later on, so maybe it'll be a priest/shaman mix, who knows.
I’m cutting it pretty close here on getting my submission in for this competition, as it took me some time to figure out the intricacies of creating cards and getting them posted in this. I sorta still have a few things to figure out as well, primarily on how to set custom card borders. That said, I elected to use the neutral border on my cards for now, and will set a custom border on the rest of my cards once I have the time to sort that out. For now though, I want to introduce my first custom class submission, The Villager. The common people of Azeroth don’t excel in combat or magic, but that doesn’t mean that you should count them out when it comes to competition. Through hard work and devotion, they’ve mastered cooperation and an ingenious use of their resources to achieve powerful synergies, sturdy minions, and unique effects built around their professions. Their hero power, It Takes a Village, exemplifies their reliance on teamwork and available resources to survive by summoning Farmhands who will supply you with a Wheat card upon death. Wheat has the unique ability to raise your hero’s health past the normal 30 Health limit.
In the time I was gone, the discussion thread blew up so I honestly cannot tell who I have given feedback to or not so let me know if you want some.
In any case, I'm done my basic set and I'll leave it here for one final round of feedback.
The Vizier
Oh, can I get some for my secreto agento?
I just posted my submission, anyone who didn't should hurry up, I think. Also, 2 questions to McF4rtson: Will there be a voting phase, as usual, or just ratings based on likes in submission thread? And, are 3-cost Hero Powers allowed?
Some late feedback:
@Klaytonio
Your class is kinda cool, I like it. Make sure to not make it too much centered on your Hero Power, so a player would have tools for other strategies. I feel like Marksman Scope is kinda bad tho, maybe 4 Durability could work.
@Jengus
Your cards look realy good, and well put together. I am not sure abut two things: your Hero Power - are actualy 3-Cost Powers legitimate? I mean, I see you are qquite in contact with McF4rtson, so maybe you know better, but I was pretty sure you can't use them, so that looks kinda weird, and while I think it actualy is not a bad idea, I am not sure if that's not a bit unfair if you're the only one who knew they're not banned. Also, I think that like 2-cost Powers are equal to 0-cost spells, that 3-mana Hero Power should be 1-mana spell effect. That means, I'd say it's already good if your hero power just draws a card, without cost-reduction, because so far it looks like much better warlock's Hero Power. The second thing is your keyword - I feel like it's quite overcomplicated for hearthstone standards. Also, you should state in description that it summons a minion from hand.
@Nightmyria
Unfortunately, I can only see those cards you added to posts as attachements. That means I can't see your Hero Power, and that I see only 6 cards of your Basic set, making this less than required. Not sure how I can help with it. Did you make sure to put images of your cards in place other than Hearthcards, like Imgur? Custom class borders are available at hearthcards in 'choose a class' section. I am not sure if there are weapon buffs in your set, but if no, I don't see much point for Riot Shield. Also, again I am not sure how much Wheat generators are in your set, nor what Wheat does on its own, but Visit to the Market looks rather weak.
@McF4rtson
Like most of your classes, this also looks very solid. Not sure if there is much to change honestly, except that you should look carefully through Silithus Battlemaiden's text - you included 'and' twice.
@Klaytonio , I like your whole class really. A very Hero Power based class isn't something Hearthstone has yet (Shaman or DH probably come closest). But I think you'll need to expand the theme a lot in the upcoming sets. So that would be my only concern, since ideally the Basic set has a card to represent each thing the class can do (i.e. Freeze, burn, care about spells; for Mage).
@McF4rtson , I'm digging that Drone haha. I like how the class cards and HP all builds off of each other. But the power level looks a little funky to me. The Prophet is a Powershot that heals 6, and leaves a healing 2/2 behind. Metamorphosis is pretty bonkers--its a 4m 5/6 at a basic level. How do you choose between TFang modes?
As other have said maybe it is a little too hero power-centric, almost your entire basic set revolves around it. I would also say orc agent is pretty weak without explosive round.
As for your positioning cards, I created a class last year with a "middlemost" gimmick as well so I will look forward to what you can think of.
Yes there is a voting phase. Yes you may do 3-mana hero powers.
And yeah forgot about that typo, will fix it.
Will tone down the prophet to leave a 1/1 behind.
It's pretty tough balancing metamorphosis since it requires a Larva, and if I place it at +4/+4, then that is just a chillwind yeti. I'll think about it.
Toxic Fangs just brings up a choose one menu if you have armor, otherwise, it just takes the mana.
So, 9pm est right?
please consider voting for my custom class in the fan creations competition :]
• TRIALS IN AUCHINDOUN - A Custom Hearthstone Adventure (4th Wing!) • New and Interesting Hearthstone Mechanics (by me!) •
I am the only active mod, and I have an 8hr shift today. The cutoff times are an estimate and I try to follow them, but it won't always be the case.
Oof. I remember when Hearthpwn had more than one FC mod... didn't realize.
please consider voting for my custom class in the fan creations competition :]
• TRIALS IN AUCHINDOUN - A Custom Hearthstone Adventure (4th Wing!) • New and Interesting Hearthstone Mechanics (by me!) •
I don't know how but i forgot to submit 10 cards. i only had 8 and i added another 2 just now, i hope that's alright. I'd hate to be disqualified on phase 1 for such a stupid mistake, which no one else pointed out btw.
You're good, I'm not too strict with this kind of stuff.
Wait... I see my submission nowhere. Whats wrong?
Ok, never mind.
Click to see my Hearthstone projects:
That's two people saying this now :^)
Hey, just wanted to pop in here cause I always love to try to be a part of these competitions. It's good to know everyone gets through the 1st phase. I hope to be able to provide feedback in the discussion for the next; this week just turned out to be way to turbulent for me to put aside the time for other reviews let alone development of my own cards, but I'm glad I was able to submit something.
Sorry I've been inactive towards the end part of phase 1. Feedback now is a bit useless but i thought i'd at least comment on a few balance problems i saw a lot of people make in the submission thread.
@AnnoreiThe Cook
@KlipceThe Chronomancer
@JollyCroquetThe Cartomancer
@ScrewjankThe Scourgelord
@whatTheHeckThe Barbarian
Nothing to say, i think everything is balanced.
@LaurendorThe Plaguebringer
@Ardin427The Winglord
I must say you are my favorite class. Having a named token and interacting with it is an awesome idea which i am totally not gonna steal for future comps.
@KlaytonioThe Secret Agent
@MvonTzeskagradTThe Soulbinder
Everything is fine
@WKitsuneThe Watcher
@MJM1Chronomancer 2 electric bungaloo
I don't want to sound harsh as this seems to be your first... post on the site lol. Hope you actually read this. Please use the discussion threads before posting, you have a lot of issues, and i don't want to discourage you, i like your enthusiasm so don't read this as me belittleing you, i just want to help.
Don't take this criticism to heart, you did some great stuff too. i like the pocket watch and Clockwork Keeper, i think you should go more into this direction.
@wintrmutethe Necromancer
@teknicianThe Spiritwalker
Is balanced.
@El_SkeleThe Bounty Hunter
It fine otherwise.
@LivingOrganismThe cartelist
@MrBurgerThe Witch Doctor
@Logoslavia The Oracle
@finspThe Bomber
Seems fine. Air Strike might be too weak compared to Explosive Shot and Power Shot
@freddoccinoThe Stylist
Seems fine though idk how much you can innovate on the stylist idea to make a whole set and an expansion.
@JengusThe Warlord
@McF4rtsonthe vizier
It's fine otherwise.
Damn this took ages to write. As closing thoughts, i'd suggest everyone to look a bit at older hearthstone cards to make sure your cards are not weaker or stronger versions of pre-existing cards. Also for those looking for card art, join up the custom hearthstone discord: https://discord.gg/TRRy3zFr.
They have an entire channel full of hearthstone-like art to use for custom cards, you can look up stuff by keywords too. Just type "in: art-gallery" then what you are looking for (warlock, fire, human, soldier, dagger, etc).
While a lot of your feedback is valid, the fact is that balance just isn't the same as it used to be. There has been a fair bit of powercreep over the last few expacs, so one-to-one comparisons are still useful, but not always the end all be all. If you use only old cards and don't take into consideration the current meta and card power levels, your class will be... "too fair".
Even Blizzard acknowledges this with their buffs to basic cards in the core set, and some of them still don't see play. Instead of using older cards as something set in stone, I would just look at the card and give it a sanity check. For example, excess chitin compared to iron hide. Iron hide saw absolutely 0 play and was printed many years ago, so it stands to reason excess chitin should cost 1 rather than 2, which would make it unplayable. Conversely, if you make it 4 armor, then you have to consider Armor Vendor. Yes it gives the opponent 4 armor as well, but giving a faster opponent 4 armor when you are trying to slow down their fast damage means your armor is worth more than theirs. A 1/3 is also a very strong turn 1 play that develops the board, unlike a 0/1.
I agree a lot of old cards are bad, but we have to use something for reference still. I try to not just copy an old card and slap an extra efect or +1 attack or health on top in an effort to find original and fresh ideas. Plus, the basic set is supposed to be pretty low power level in general with vanilla level balance.
Of course i am only 1 person i don't devide the absolutes, but i do believe that if powercreep is generally not liked by the community and your card is an obvious powercreep, you will leave a less favorable impression on the voters.
I only point out how cards stack up with already existing cards, mainly cause i played this game for so long i know every single card in it. It's up to everyone to device whether to change their cards or not.
Slapping an effect on a card or minor tweaks doesn't necessarily mean it is lazy or uninspired, after all, your unleash the whelps is basically the same as unleash the hounds. And I actually disagree with you, the basic set is not meant to be weak, it is meant to be simple. You wouldn't call fireball weak, blessing of kings weak, or holy nova weak.
I think at the end of the day, also being a player that knows every card and has been creating custom cards for honestly way too long lmao, it just so happens to be differing card design philosophies. I see the direction the game is heading in, much stronger cards (large powercreep like new Alex and illidari inquisitor vs king krush all the way to minor powercreep like spawnpool forager vs Murmy and possessed villager) more synergy between cards to the point of entire archetypes, that sort of thing. It comes down to knowing how far you can push your cards, the difference being your class will be mediocre in terms of power and may not have the tools to compete, vs you go too far, like what blizz did with DH. We shall see what the voters have to say, I suppose.