I play Demon Zoo, Tempo Mage, Handlock, and Control Priest... All with no Shredders and theyre all, maybe with the exception of Priest, Very Competitive Decks.
I play Demon Zoo, Tempo Mage, Handlock, and Control Priest... All with no Shredders and theyre all, maybe with the exception of Priest, Very Competitive Decks.
gadgetzan auctioneer was played only in miracle and even leeroy wasnt used in some competitive decks.
To my understanding there are reasons as to why u might consider nerfing a card
Back when all we had was the base game, this kind of thread appeared for the Chillwind Yeti for being too effective and played in too many decks. By now the very notion of such a thread would be rather quaint. And with the benefit of hindsight, the yeti was a good card. Never too strong, never too weak, just solid at all times. The thing is, there will always be some kind of bogeyman in a customizable game by the very nature of the game. If you would make the shredder less effective, it would become the next amazingly efficient card that needs to get hit by the nerf stick.
Now I don't know about you, but I like that this very efficient creature is one with a random effect. The shredder might give you a minion that does literally nothing for you, a reasonable 2-drop or a milhouse manastorm. At the very least, this card brings diversity in its own way to the game, which is a definite plus.
Shredder isn't even that strong, idk why people are complaining about it. Even if it were a 4/4 or a 5/4 in the current meta it wouldn't be THAT strong, just above average. It's still worse than yeti in many cases and has quite a gamble to it. It's not used too often in top end decks and really would see more play if it were a 3 drop or something. Defender of argus is a much more popular and stronger 4 drop of the top of my head.
TLDR: Everyone complaining about this card either don't understand the game, are complaining/whining about something that's perfectly fine for no reason or are just trolling. Idk any pro players that have said this card is over powered. I've heard them say it's strong but other 4 drops like water elemental and fireguard destroyer trump it easily, with TGT around the corner I suspect the standard for 4 drops to go up and something to possibly even replace the few decks that still even run piloted shredder.
I play Demon Zoo, Tempo Mage, Handlock, and Control Priest... All with no Shredders and theyre all, maybe with the exception of Priest, Very Competitive Decks.
gadgetzan auctioneer was played only in miracle and even leeroy wasnt used in some competitive decks.
To my understanding there are reasons as to why u might consider nerfing a card
Comparing old auctioneer to shredder isn't hardly fair. Also the argument to nerf shredder is that it's played everywhere, which it very obviously isn't. Again, it's played in only 6 of the top 16 decks. Auctioneer was a card that created a deck that wholly dominated ladder, worse than patron in it's time.
Shredder isn't even that strong, idk why people are complaining about it. Even if it were a 4/4 or a 5/4 in the current meta it wouldn't be THAT strong, just above average.
Agreed. This card is going to cause a lot of problems over time with creating new viable options for decks. I think changing it to a 4/2 would keep it's power level and still be very playable. It would still be able to trade with 3 drops and have the advantage of gaining a creature after it dies. Having two health would also allow pretty much all 2 drop minions to be able to challenge this card on the board.
Definitely needs to be changed in some way. It is just not fun to see this in every deck. One argument that I have heard is that "If everyone is using it, then its fair to both decks". The problem with this argument, which also applies to Dr. Boom, is that cards like these rewards the player who draws them on curve far too heavily. Yes both players have the same card pool, but when one deck plays shredder on turn four and the other deck is forced to play a 3-drop off curve on their turn 4, it sets the second player WAY behind. It can be very hard to get back in the game after that. This ultimately just intensifies the randomness of a game that already has a high level of RNG.
But not everyone is using it...
Well everyone who is playing solid 4 mana cost creatures is using it. The meta is mainly very fast aggro decks and combo decks. Neither of those archtypes really relies on a board presence 4 mana creature so you aren't seeing it in every deck. That being said it is still in a very large number of decks. This card also severely limits card design in the future, which is a point you are somewhat ignoring.
You clearly see no balance issues with this card, and that's fine. We will agree to disagree =P
Shredder is THE go to 4 drop, besides decks with non-standard playstyles he's pretty much the first choice, I'd like it to be nerfed just so there is actually consideration of other 4 drops.
The more thought that goes in choosing cards for a deck the better. It adds to variety, diversity, fun. Auto includes especially as far as minions go (spells and weapons are much more limited), are bad for the game.
Shredder is one of the best 4 drops in the game but there is plenty of competition for that slot. The trick is deck synergies to encourage people to use them.
I don't see TGT changing the ubiquity of Shredder for a default "I don't have any utility needs in this slot so I'm just going to run Shredder" card choice. But TGT does have some additional quality four drops that add to the pool: Maiden of the Lake, Refreshment Vendor and Twilight Guardian all seems viable in the appropriate deck.
The key is to provide enough interesting options so that people don't just default to Shredder for that slot. I think they have achieved that. It certainly doesn't belong in every deck.
If they nerf shredder everyone will just go back to Yeti anyway. So why bother doing it? It doesn't solve the ubiquity problem, it just shifts the "problem" to another card.
Shredder is one of the best 4 drops in the game but there is plenty of competition for that slot. The trick is deck synergies to encourage people to use them.
I don't see TGT changing the ubiquity of Shredder for a default "I don't have any utility needs in this slot so I'm just going to run Shredder" card choice. But TGT does have some additional quality four drops that add to the pool: Maiden of the Lake, Refreshment Vendor and Twilight Guardian all seems viable in the appropriate deck.
The key is to provide enough interesting options so that people don't just default to Shredder for that slot. I think they have achieved that. It certainly doesn't belong in every deck.
If they nerf shredder everyone will just go back to Yeti anyway. So why bother doing it? It doesn't solve the ubiquity problem, it just shifts the "problem" to another card.
THIS!!! Thank you for your logic sir. The "problem" of ubiquity doesn't go away with the nerf, it juuuust shifts. As far as the shredder getting "nerfed" with other 2 drops in TGT, It's really about even. A two really bad pulls in Wrathgurad and Darnassus Aspirant and about 2-3 other weak ones and a few decent ones the rest being wholly neutral in relation to other two drops. So while it's not getting any worse with TGT, it's not getting any better either.
Fallen Hero Neutral: This is neutral because this card only affects two classes. Mages it's a buff, warlocks it's a nerf for everyone else it's a neutral 3/2 making this neither better nor worse.
Flame Juggler Neutral; again no battle cry it becomes a vanilla 2/3
Wrathguard HUGE NERF; This card, much like Doomsayer could lose you the game in a hurry, and since it does nothing when hitting the board it will just sit there waiting for your opponent to take advantage of it on a turn much latter than this card should ever be played.
Wyrmrest Agent Nerf; Without the Battle cry this becomes a flavor text only armor smith and that is bad.
So all in all
Nerfs: 6
Buff: 5
Neutral: 6
That is actually lets shredder stay basically where he is currently at. Though I would say a slight nerf by number and also because I think the Wrathguard Nerf and Darnassus Aspirant Nerf are worse than the biggest buff that shredder got in Totem Golem
Agreed. I deeply care about getting more diversity into Hearthstone - we should be able to freely utilize class cards because by DESIGN they are supposed to be stronger.
(Lying, I just want to use Murloc Knight... a lot)
I totally agree with you. This card completely ruins the deck building process for me. Whenever I want to build a deck I struggle to figure out what 4 drop minions to put in. My first instinct is to put in shredder because its clearly overpowered and everyone else is playing it, but then I end up going with something else because I always end up getting fucked by the random effect and lose games solely because of it. And then of course whenever my opponent plays this card, I get fucked also and then they win the game solely because of it. Why can't people understand that some players want a game where the best and overpowered cards aren't dictated by a random effect. Fucking worst card design ever.
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It's so sad that people make threads that they only look for people who agree with them instead of being offered constructed criticism and a well thoughts out debate.
"No, just only post if you agree and if you don't then you basically "save time" by not posting". This is quite wrong.
I think it is good that this card is in the game because it's only a common, which makes it much more available for f2p players.
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I play Demon Zoo, Tempo Mage, Handlock, and Control Priest... All with no Shredders and theyre all, maybe with the exception of Priest, Very Competitive Decks.
gadgetzan auctioneer was played only in miracle and even leeroy wasnt used in some competitive decks.
To my understanding there are reasons as to why u might consider nerfing a card
Shredder should be 3-3, make it trade less for the extra minion it gives.
Back when all we had was the base game, this kind of thread appeared for the Chillwind Yeti for being too effective and played in too many decks. By now the very notion of such a thread would be rather quaint. And with the benefit of hindsight, the yeti was a good card. Never too strong, never too weak, just solid at all times. The thing is, there will always be some kind of bogeyman in a customizable game by the very nature of the game. If you would make the shredder less effective, it would become the next amazingly efficient card that needs to get hit by the nerf stick.
Now I don't know about you, but I like that this very efficient creature is one with a random effect. The shredder might give you a minion that does literally nothing for you, a reasonable 2-drop or a milhouse manastorm. At the very least, this card brings diversity in its own way to the game, which is a definite plus.
Shredder isn't even that strong, idk why people are complaining about it. Even if it were a 4/4 or a 5/4 in the current meta it wouldn't be THAT strong, just above average. It's still worse than yeti in many cases and has quite a gamble to it. It's not used too often in top end decks and really would see more play if it were a 3 drop or something. Defender of argus is a much more popular and stronger 4 drop of the top of my head.
TLDR: Everyone complaining about this card either don't understand the game, are complaining/whining about something that's perfectly fine for no reason or are just trolling. Idk any pro players that have said this card is over powered. I've heard them say it's strong but other 4 drops like water elemental and fireguard destroyer trump it easily, with TGT around the corner I suspect the standard for 4 drops to go up and something to possibly even replace the few decks that still even run piloted shredder.
Comparing old auctioneer to shredder isn't hardly fair. Also the argument to nerf shredder is that it's played everywhere, which it very obviously isn't. Again, it's played in only 6 of the top 16 decks. Auctioneer was a card that created a deck that wholly dominated ladder, worse than patron in it's time.
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If it dropped a 1 mana cost minion it would be more "fair". Still very good though.
Well everyone who is playing solid 4 mana cost creatures is using it. The meta is mainly very fast aggro decks and combo decks. Neither of those archtypes really relies on a board presence 4 mana creature so you aren't seeing it in every deck. That being said it is still in a very large number of decks. This card also severely limits card design in the future, which is a point you are somewhat ignoring.
You clearly see no balance issues with this card, and that's fine. We will agree to disagree =P
Shredder is THE go to 4 drop, besides decks with non-standard playstyles he's pretty much the first choice, I'd like it to be nerfed just so there is actually consideration of other 4 drops.
◥·̆◤TO ARMS TOTEMS!◥·̆◤
The more thought that goes in choosing cards for a deck the better. It adds to variety, diversity, fun. Auto includes especially as far as minions go (spells and weapons are much more limited), are bad for the game.
Shredder is one of the best 4 drops in the game but there is plenty of competition for that slot. The trick is deck synergies to encourage people to use them.
Keeper of the Grove, Houndmaster, Water Elemental, Goblin Blastmage, Auchenai Soulpriest, Fireguard Destroyer, Voidcaller, Kor'kron Elite all serve purposes in their respective classes and often will be chosen over Shredder depending on the deck.
For neutral minions the following also compete in the slot:
Defender of Argus, Gnomish Inventor, Dark Iron Dwarf, Kezan Mystic, Jeeves, Mechanical Yeti, Sen'jin Shieldmasta, Twilight Drake and Violet Teacher
I don't see TGT changing the ubiquity of Shredder for a default "I don't have any utility needs in this slot so I'm just going to run Shredder" card choice. But TGT does have some additional quality four drops that add to the pool: Maiden of the Lake, Refreshment Vendor and Twilight Guardian all seems viable in the appropriate deck.
The key is to provide enough interesting options so that people don't just default to Shredder for that slot. I think they have achieved that. It certainly doesn't belong in every deck.
If they nerf shredder everyone will just go back to Yeti anyway. So why bother doing it? It doesn't solve the ubiquity problem, it just shifts the "problem" to another card.
Going over all the new 2 drops in TGT...Piloted Shedder got buffed even more...Most of the new drops are pretty good.
THIS!!! Thank you for your logic sir. The "problem" of ubiquity doesn't go away with the nerf, it juuuust shifts. As far as the shredder getting "nerfed" with other 2 drops in TGT, It's really about even. A two really bad pulls in Wrathgurad and Darnassus Aspirant and about 2-3 other weak ones and a few decent ones the rest being wholly neutral in relation to other two drops. So while it's not getting any worse with TGT, it's not getting any better either.
Not really.
Alexstrasza's Champion Neutral; neither better nor worse than current 2 drops
Argent Watchman Nerf; having to pay two mana to allow this thing to attack is bad.
Boneguard Lieutenant Buff; 3/2 that can get bigger, albeit slowly is still better than a vanilla 3/2
Cutpurse Buff; while the stats are bad and it's likely to die, it's still a threat that needs to be addressed.
Darnassus Aspirant Nerf; and a big one. Most decks that run Shredder can afford this tempo loss.
Druid of the Saber Nerf; no battle cry makes this a solid nerf
Fallen Hero Neutral: This is neutral because this card only affects two classes. Mages it's a buff, warlocks it's a nerf for everyone else it's a neutral 3/2 making this neither better nor worse.
Flame Juggler Neutral; again no battle cry it becomes a vanilla 2/3
Garrison Commander Buff and a big one, for obvious reasons.
King's Elekk Neutral; again no battlecry
Lance Carrier Nerf; no battlecry, poor stats.
Sparring Partner Buff; 3/2 is base stats but it has taunt and that could be pretty big actually
Tiny Knight of Evil Neutral; This cooould be a buff but in reality this won't get any bigger 99.9999% of the time giving it vanilla stats.
Totem Golem BIG BUFF; this card has a ton of value coming out of shredder, you get the body with no overload
Undercity Valiant Neutral; Vanilla stats and no combo effect
Wrathguard HUGE NERF; This card, much like Doomsayer could lose you the game in a hurry, and since it does nothing when hitting the board it will just sit there waiting for your opponent to take advantage of it on a turn much latter than this card should ever be played.
Wyrmrest Agent Nerf; Without the Battle cry this becomes a flavor text only armor smith and that is bad.
So all in all
Nerfs: 6
Buff: 5
Neutral: 6
That is actually lets shredder stay basically where he is currently at. Though I would say a slight nerf by number and also because I think the Wrathguard Nerf and Darnassus Aspirant Nerf are worse than the biggest buff that shredder got in Totem Golem
We've had enough. #ShredderNerf
Tweet this, spread word, bring balance.
Give a man a Murloc, and he'll eat for a day.
Give him a Murloc Knight, and people will hate him.
I love this game with, but Piloted Shredder just ruins the experience for me.
Who thought it was a smart idea to make a 4 mana minion with averagely 12 stats and a additional effect?
Not even Harvest Golem only has 1 total stat more then a 3/4.
And no, Deathrattle doesn't justify it. You still have a body that can't be ignored that will take 2 total enemy cards to remove.
If you want to aid this cause, tweet #ShredderNerf.
Please only respond if you're with this cause, and just move on and save time if you think this is just a dumb thread
Give a man a Murloc, and he'll eat for a day.
Give him a Murloc Knight, and people will hate him.
Agreed. I deeply care about getting more diversity into Hearthstone - we should be able to freely utilize class cards because by DESIGN they are supposed to be stronger.
(Lying, I just want to use Murloc Knight... a lot)
Vision without action is a dream. Action without vision is a nightmare.
I totally agree with you. This card completely ruins the deck building process for me. Whenever I want to build a deck I struggle to figure out what 4 drop minions to put in. My first instinct is to put in shredder because its clearly overpowered and everyone else is playing it, but then I end up going with something else because I always end up getting fucked by the random effect and lose games solely because of it. And then of course whenever my opponent plays this card, I get fucked also and then they win the game solely because of it. Why can't people understand that some players want a game where the best and overpowered cards aren't dictated by a random effect. Fucking worst card design ever.
Hey all F2P players out there! Try out my 100% free deck before trying to call this game pay to win!!!
It's so sad that people make threads that they only look for people who agree with them instead of being offered constructed criticism and a well thoughts out debate.
"No, just only post if you agree and if you don't then you basically "save time" by not posting". This is quite wrong.
I think it is good that this card is in the game because it's only a common, which makes it much more available for f2p players.
"As housecarl I am sworn to your service. I will protect you and all you own, with my life." - Lydia of Whiterun