Despite being raped by Shredder into Doomsayer (Voidcaller into Malganis to pop the Shredder, 2 other demons on board) I don't think it needs to be nerfed.
right now, I count 5 "bad" cards that you get from it - Ancient Watcher, Doomsayer, Explosive Sheep, Lorewalker Cho, and Vitality Token. There are 67 2 drops, meaning you have a 7.5% chance to get something bad and 92.5% to get something ok.
With TGT, it adds 17 new 2 drops with 3 "bad" cards in it - Argent Watchman, Darnassus Aspirant, and Wrathguard. The "bad" ratio goes up to 9.5%. and there aren't a ton of top tier 2 drops that you can get in the new set aside from Totem Golem, so I feel Blizzard is slowly pushing the 2 spot to be diluted more, and to push the average card you get from it to be a little worse. Like I never mind when they get something like your average 2/3 or 3/2 out of it, but when a Minibot or now a Totem Golem drops out, that's when the saltiness comes. Statistics are good to remove that and help you realize you were a victim of extremes.
They definitely should nerf this card. Without a power creep, I don't see how they could release another 4 drop to compete with it. It's just not very fun to play against.
Just saying Patron Warrior is a very high skill deck that requires a lot of set up. Patron is the highest skill deck out there and to nerf it is useless. Back to shredder, ...
i beg to differ on this on... it does not really require very high skill... the components required are pretty straight forward and the timing is quite obvious.
All this talk about high risk, is completely bogus. It's played all the time, and is universally regarded as the bets 4 drop. Not saying it needs to be nerfed, but lets not throw around the high risk bs.
Just saying Patron Warrior is a very high skill deck that requires a lot of set up. Patron is the highest skill deck out there and to nerf it is useless. Back to shredder, ...
i beg to differ on this on... it does not really require very high skill... the components required are pretty straight forward and the timing is quite obvious.
All this shredder hype, i play Taz Dingo on 4 mainly because i run either into patron or face huntard and senjin is way better vs both as shredder is. Shredder is actually overhyped.
Nerf cards should be:
1. Warsong Comander (cuz of frothing combo 50+ damage othk is ludicrous),
2. Mad Scientist (Because 6 mana value on a 2 drop is retarded).
All other cards in this game dont need a nerf in my opinion, there will always be a Strongest card on each slot.
When a card basically makes the community think that new 4 drops will never see play, you know a card has gone horribly wrong in balance.
What people think is not necessarily what will happen. Besides that, there needs to be parity - some cards need to be better than others. If there are new cards at 4 mana that are introduced, and they are better than the shredder, everyone will cry over "power creeping."
Yeah 2 cards that are bad. Shredder is actually better with tgt. It doesn't get nerfed because of the absurdly small chance to get darnassus or that 2/4 inspire to attack card.
Yeah 2 cards that are bad. Shredder is actually better with tgt. It doesn't get nerfed because of the absurdly small chance to get darnassus or that 2/4 inspire to attack card.
Wrathguard + a huge spell/AOE damage is a good thing, I suppose
I think Piloted Shredder is one of the best cards in the game. It represents a lot of what we take for granted or misinterpret about this game. You might get a Millhouse Manastorm or an Ancient Watcher. To be upset over RNG, well you're playing Hearthstone, you need expect a little RNG. Is it a strong card? Indeed. Is it too strong and require nerfs? I wouldn't say that. As TGT rolls out, it's value should go down in relation to all the below average 2 drops that will be added.
How many below average two drops are there compared to how many good/average 2 drops will be released? Shredder is getting buffed not nerfed. Just becuase u get the occasional ancient watcher or something.
I think one of the unfortunate things about shredder is it is neutral. Generally class cards are more powerful than neutrals, but I can't think of many...maybe Fireguard Destroyer and water elemental, that are even comparative in strength with Shredder. Then shredder also has the mech tag, which like the beast tag, should result in a defecit in stat value, but it doesn't. With mech warper you can get him for 3 mana, with 2 warpers....2 mana. However he is run in many decks that don't run any other mechs cause of the huge value.
I dunno - maybe Im just used to "dealing" with it but it doesnt seem to be that bad, IMO. Just a solid 4 drop that you know you're going to run into. The 4-attack keeps it out of range of the priest "kills" so that does help. Its strong but not OP, IMO.
Checking out the Meta snap shot on Tempo storm (not sure how accurate this list is for the entirety of hearthstone) it's being run in 6 of the top 16 decks...doesn't seem overpowered to me, just really good. Basically it's a great neutral 4 drop for any deck that doesn't have a specific theme where that theme prioritizes other 4 drops. Now, if it was being included in every deck regardless then it would be worthy of a nerf.
Agreed. This card is going to cause a lot of problems over time with creating new viable options for decks. I think changing it to a 4/2 would keep it's power level and still be very playable. It would still be able to trade with 3 drops and have the advantage of gaining a creature after it dies. Having two health would also allow pretty much all 2 drop minions to be able to challenge this card on the board.
Definitely needs to be changed in some way. It is just not fun to see this in every deck. One argument that I have heard is that "If everyone is using it, then its fair to both decks". The problem with this argument, which also applies to Dr. Boom, is that cards like these rewards the player who draws them on curve far too heavily. Yes both players have the same card pool, but when one deck plays shredder on turn four and the other deck is forced to play a 3-drop off curve on their turn 4, it sets the second player WAY behind. It can be very hard to get back in the game after that. This ultimately just intensifies the randomness of a game that already has a high level of RNG.
Agreed. This card is going to cause a lot of problems over time with creating new viable options for decks. I think changing it to a 4/2 would keep it's power level and still be very playable. It would still be able to trade with 3 drops and have the advantage of gaining a creature after it dies. Having two health would also allow pretty much all 2 drop minions to be able to challenge this card on the board.
Definitely needs to be changed in some way. It is just not fun to see this in every deck. One argument that I have heard is that "If everyone is using it, then its fair to both decks". The problem with this argument, which also applies to Dr. Boom, is that cards like these rewards the player who draws them on curve far too heavily. Yes both players have the same card pool, but when one deck plays shredder on turn four and the other deck is forced to play a 3-drop off curve on their turn 4, it sets the second player WAY behind. It can be very hard to get back in the game after that. This ultimately just intensifies the randomness of a game that already has a high level of RNG.
Despite being raped by Shredder into Doomsayer (Voidcaller into Malganis to pop the Shredder, 2 other demons on board) I don't think it needs to be nerfed.
right now, I count 5 "bad" cards that you get from it - Ancient Watcher, Doomsayer, Explosive Sheep, Lorewalker Cho, and Vitality Token. There are 67 2 drops, meaning you have a 7.5% chance to get something bad and 92.5% to get something ok.
With TGT, it adds 17 new 2 drops with 3 "bad" cards in it - Argent Watchman, Darnassus Aspirant, and Wrathguard. The "bad" ratio goes up to 9.5%. and there aren't a ton of top tier 2 drops that you can get in the new set aside from Totem Golem, so I feel Blizzard is slowly pushing the 2 spot to be diluted more, and to push the average card you get from it to be a little worse. Like I never mind when they get something like your average 2/3 or 3/2 out of it, but when a Minibot or now a Totem Golem drops out, that's when the saltiness comes. Statistics are good to remove that and help you realize you were a victim of extremes.
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They definitely should nerf this card. Without a power creep, I don't see how they could release another 4 drop to compete with it. It's just not very fun to play against.
i beg to differ on this on... it does not really require very high skill... the components required are pretty straight forward and the timing is quite obvious.
please start playing other classes too.
All this talk about high risk, is completely bogus. It's played all the time, and is universally regarded as the bets 4 drop. Not saying it needs to be nerfed, but lets not throw around the high risk bs.
I would either change it to a 3/3 or
Change it's effect Deathrattle: Summon a 2-mana mech
Also change the Skygolem along the way.
It's a bit more consistent but at least now you know what to expect.
'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact'
Sherlock Holmes
Patron Warrior definitely takes good pre-planning and math skills. It's still also an OP deck that needs to be nerfed. Look at this puzzle.. I'm pretty sure you, or most people (including myself), would have a very difficult time figuring out a puzzle like this https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/36me8b/lifecoach_patron_warrior_lethal_puzzle/
Here is another one that Trump missed https://i.imgur.com/8E9gt8P.jpg
All this shredder hype, i play Taz Dingo on 4 mainly because i run either into patron or face huntard and senjin is way better vs both as shredder is. Shredder is actually overhyped.
Nerf cards should be:
1. Warsong Comander (cuz of frothing combo 50+ damage othk is ludicrous),
2. Mad Scientist (Because 6 mana value on a 2 drop is retarded).
All other cards in this game dont need a nerf in my opinion, there will always be a Strongest card on each slot.
Huh? Shredder is OP, so nerf all deathrattles?
Many people, and their nerf suggestions, make no sense.. just like the people who say Patron Warrior is so OP that Emperor needs to be nerfed.
When a card basically makes the community think that new 4 drops will never see play, you know a card has gone horribly wrong in balance.
Give a man a Murloc, and he'll eat for a day.
Give him a Murloc Knight, and people will hate him.
What people think is not necessarily what will happen. Besides that, there needs to be parity - some cards need to be better than others. If there are new cards at 4 mana that are introduced, and they are better than the shredder, everyone will cry over "power creeping."
Yeah 2 cards that are bad. Shredder is actually better with tgt. It doesn't get nerfed because of the absurdly small chance to get darnassus or that 2/4 inspire to attack card.
Wrathguard + a huge spell/AOE damage is a good thing, I suppose
mfw his Yogg steals my win
How many below average two drops are there compared to how many good/average 2 drops will be released? Shredder is getting buffed not nerfed. Just becuase u get the occasional ancient watcher or something.
should be a 4/2 so that any 2 drop trades with it
I think one of the unfortunate things about shredder is it is neutral. Generally class cards are more powerful than neutrals, but I can't think of many...maybe Fireguard Destroyer and water elemental, that are even comparative in strength with Shredder. Then shredder also has the mech tag, which like the beast tag, should result in a defecit in stat value, but it doesn't. With mech warper you can get him for 3 mana, with 2 warpers....2 mana. However he is run in many decks that don't run any other mechs cause of the huge value.
I dunno - maybe Im just used to "dealing" with it but it doesnt seem to be that bad, IMO. Just a solid 4 drop that you know you're going to run into. The 4-attack keeps it out of range of the priest "kills" so that does help. Its strong but not OP, IMO.
I win due to skill and lose due to bad RNG. :D
Checking out the Meta snap shot on Tempo storm (not sure how accurate this list is for the entirety of hearthstone) it's being run in 6 of the top 16 decks...doesn't seem overpowered to me, just really good. Basically it's a great neutral 4 drop for any deck that doesn't have a specific theme where that theme prioritizes other 4 drops. Now, if it was being included in every deck regardless then it would be worthy of a nerf.
Agreed. This card is going to cause a lot of problems over time with creating new viable options for decks. I think changing it to a 4/2 would keep it's power level and still be very playable. It would still be able to trade with 3 drops and have the advantage of gaining a creature after it dies. Having two health would also allow pretty much all 2 drop minions to be able to challenge this card on the board.
Definitely needs to be changed in some way. It is just not fun to see this in every deck. One argument that I have heard is that "If everyone is using it, then its fair to both decks". The problem with this argument, which also applies to Dr. Boom, is that cards like these rewards the player who draws them on curve far too heavily. Yes both players have the same card pool, but when one deck plays shredder on turn four and the other deck is forced to play a 3-drop off curve on their turn 4, it sets the second player WAY behind. It can be very hard to get back in the game after that. This ultimately just intensifies the randomness of a game that already has a high level of RNG.
But not everyone is using it...
It should be a 3/3. Piloted Shredder is the second-best card in the game behind Mad Scientist (how that guy isn't nerfed yet is beyond me).