I played vs Plot Twist Warlock where they play Fel Lord Bertrug and Plot Twist. However, with Vargoth on the board, after the second casting of Plot Twist, the minions summoned didnt die at the end of the turn like they are supposed too! The text on the Bertrug card states : "Whenever you draw a minion, summon a copy with RUSH that DIES at the END OF THE TURN.
They didnt die at the end. Is this a bug or is this intended? Seems like a bug to me. Otherwise, thats a very unfair combo IMO.
Both cards have End of turn text. Vargoth says, " at the end of YOUR turn" and Bertrug says " end of turn. So shoulldnt Vargoth trigger first, then all end of turn triggers last? Or both at the same time. Either way, they should have died afterwards.
where is that? are you talking about going Blizzards site? Or here?
Why would you report a bug in a Blizzard game on a non-Blizzard site?
cuz maybe they have direct access to Blizzard,cuz thats what websites dedicated to 1 game usually do. also, the game developers might review the logs on the website. is that enough reasons for you? or would you like more to go with your snide remarks?
That is, end-of-turn does not have an end-of-turn itself, but some cards, like Vargoth, behave as if end-of-turn was a full-blown turn.
I think there is a problem of consistency about how the end-of-turn event is coded.
I think it is a bug, i just watched the replay again, and my opponent DID NOT even draw Vargoth in hand. Yet Vargoth was summoned. Secondly, you kind of contradicted yourself with your opening and closing senteces. LOL
There is only one phase of end of turn, so basically any minion summoned after that will stay there, however,the card still is not completely accurate, since it says at the end of the turn , the minions should die at the end of YOUR turn. Either that or the card text should be changed at "after your end of turn.".
That is, end-of-turn does not have an end-of-turn itself, but some cards, like Vargoth, behave as if end-of-turn was a full-blown turn.
I think there is a problem of consistency about how the end-of-turn event is coded.
I think it is a bug, i just watched the replay again, and my opponent DID NOT even draw Vargoth in hand. Yet Vargoth was summoned. Secondly, you kind of contradicted yourself with your opening and closing senteces. LOL
I guess i didn't explain myself clearly enough.
I mean that Vargoth's effect opens up for weird interactions, that are yet perfectly consistent with how end-of-turn currently works.
That may be a bug, but not necessarily so.
If Vargoth was summoned, it was played, or drawn, or you missed some other interactions happening.
Might be a bug. Toast has a vid, I LOST TO A BUG! 💢 Lorewalker Cho Combo Rogue w/ Unstable Element, Unseen Saboteur. Its not exactly the same thing that has been posted but uses same card Fel Lord Bertrug.
Edit: sorry Ginzo did not see your post, would not have posted this one had I noticed yours, my bad. You got here first.
One interesting thing I noticed about Fel Lord Betrug is that minions summoned through card-draw during your opponent's turn (say he plays Coldlight Oracle) do not actually die at the end of this turn, but at the end of your own. Considering the card text it seems like a bug - then again, consistency in card text isn't exactly Blizz's strong suit.
Think of Betrug having 2 effects: 1st, summoning minions, 2nd, destroying minions.
End-of-turn starts, so the game checks for end-of-turn effects (Betrug's 2nd effect and Vargoth) and activates them in order of being summoned
Betrug was summoned first, so he checks for any minions summoned and destroys them (in this case, Vargoth and Elysiana).
Vargoth's effect activates, bringing out Plot Twist. Since minions were drawn, Betrug's 1st effect activates, summoning whatever minions were drawn. And since his 2nd effect was already done, it shouldn't activate again.
The example with Y'shaarj and Rag was a simpler way to describe what happened. When the end-of-turn arrives, you should think of it as an instant: whatever end-of-turn effects happen, they do at that instant (in this case, Betrug's 2nd effect and Vargoth's effect).
In fact, if you noticed your opponent's turn 11, the Mountain Giant that was summoned by Vargoth died then, because that was the next instant of end-of-turn effects your opponent had.
Remember how it used to be that if you pulled Wild Pyromancer from a spell (ie: Oaken Summons) the Pyromancer would ping the board. And they changed it so that all interactions are checked at the beginning of an event so that triggers don't go off unless they were present from the start. Well this is a side-product of that.
Here is whats happening:
End of Turn starts. End of turn consists of two steps. End of Turn interactions are checked. End of Turn interactions are triggered in the order they came onto the battlefield.
End of Turn triggers are checked. There are two things that need resolving 1. Vargoth casts a spell. 2. Betrug's dies at end of turn effect.
End of Turn triggers are resolved. Vargoth casts Plot Twist creating new minions from Betrug's effect but because the end of turn trigger check has already happened the dies at end of turn ability for these new minions does not resolve but does for Vargoth and Elysiana because they were present at the beginning of the End of Turn.
Interesting to note 2 things here.
1. Since Vargoth casts his end of turn then dies it implies that the minion, not Betrug, triggers the dies at end of turn ability. If it was Betrug resolving the ability then Vargoth would die without getting to cast Plot Twist since resolves happen in order and Betrug was on the field first. This means that it does not matter which of Vargoth and Betrug were played first. If Vargoth were played the turn before and survived to see Betrug/Plot Twist played the next turn then the same result would happen. This is important to note because it means if you did something like Betrug into Plot Twist into Sacrificial Pact on Betrug the minions would still die. Betrug being on the field has no impact on the minions dying at end of turn.
2. The Mountain Giant that he draws from Vargoth's Plot Twist does die at the end of the next turn so the minion does not lose the "Dies at end of turn" ability. It simply isn't triggered that turn because it wasn't on the board when the check happens.
Also, there is a bug here, but not in Hearthstone. Its in HSreplay's deck tracker. Apparently drawing the 2/2 Rush Demon confuses the deck tracker and it shows a blank card then an incorrect card. Your opponent **did** draw Vargoth but they did it immediately after the Rush Demon and so it just shows a blank there then Scargill, which your opponent can't possibly be running since its a Shaman minion. Same thing happened with Archivist Elysiana and it for some reason shows a blank then an Emeriss in hand.
Think of Betrug having 2 effects: 1st, summoning minions, 2nd, destroying minions.
End-of-turn starts, so the game checks for end-of-turn effects (Betrug's 2nd effect and Vargoth) and activates them in order of being summoned
Betrug was summoned first, so he checks for any minions summoned and destroys them (in this case, Vargoth and Elysiana).
Vargoth's effect activates, bringing out Plot Twist. Since minions were drawn, Betrug's 1st effect activates, summoning whatever minions were drawn. And since his 2nd effect was already done, it shouldn't activate again.
The example with Y'shaarj and Rag was a simpler way to describe what happened. When the end-of-turn arrives, you should think of it as an instant: whatever end-of-turn effects happen, they do at that instant (in this case, Betrug's 2nd effect and Vargoth's effect).
In fact, if you noticed your opponent's turn 11, the Mountain Giant that was summoned by Vargoth died then, because that was the next instant of end-of-turn effects your opponent had.
i get what your saying. However, Bertrug text is Universal in nature. It has only has 2 deciding factors, summon, and die at the end. Its Universal. No qualifiers for its trigger. So Bertrug only honoring 1 part of its text seems like a bug. Why trigger the summons and not the death?
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I played vs Plot Twist Warlock where they play Fel Lord Bertrug and Plot Twist. However, with Vargoth on the board, after the second casting of Plot Twist, the minions summoned didnt die at the end of the turn like they are supposed too! The text on the Bertrug card states : "Whenever you draw a minion, summon a copy with RUSH that DIES at the END OF THE TURN.
They didnt die at the end. Is this a bug or is this intended? Seems like a bug to me. Otherwise, thats a very unfair combo IMO.
Both cards have End of turn text. Vargoth says, " at the end of YOUR turn" and Bertrug says " end of turn. So shoulldnt Vargoth trigger first, then all end of turn triggers last? Or both at the same time. Either way, they should have died afterwards.
Heres the replay. Turn 10 is what I am talking about.https://hsreplay.net/replay/daQFV6qsUZWcfuPRWMNpPY
I would like it if anyone would review the play and give some feedback. Thx.
sounds like a bug, go to the bug report forums. They usually take stuff like this seriously
I once reported the sound bug for Wardruid Loti and they actually responded pretty quickly and the next patch it was fixed.
I tried having fun once. It was awful.
where is that? are you talking about going Blizzards site? Or here?
Why would you report a bug in a Blizzard game on a non-Blizzard site?
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Blizzard site
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/hearthstone/10591462/
I tried having fun once. It was awful.
cuz maybe they have direct access to Blizzard,cuz thats what websites dedicated to 1 game usually do. also, the game developers might review the logs on the website. is that enough reasons for you? or would you like more to go with your snide remarks?
Not really a bug i think.
The point is that Vargoth's product happen during a middle event, end-o-turn, that is neither your turn, nor that of the opponent.
Ie: if Y'Shaarj, Rage Unbound summons Ragnaros the Firelord, Ragnaros won't trigger.
That is, end-of-turn does not have an end-of-turn itself, but some cards, like Vargoth, behave as if end-of-turn was a full-blown turn.
I think there is a problem of consistency about how the end-of-turn event is coded.
thx bro,.cheers.
I think it is a bug, i just watched the replay again, and my opponent DID NOT even draw Vargoth in hand. Yet Vargoth was summoned. Secondly, you kind of contradicted yourself with your opening and closing senteces. LOL
There is only one phase of end of turn, so basically any minion summoned after that will stay there, however,the card still is not completely accurate, since it says at the end of the turn , the minions should die at the end of YOUR turn. Either that or the card text should be changed at "after your end of turn.".
Toast uploaded a video with the same bug happening to him (opponent won cos of this). Def bugged ... Small Indie Company strikes again lul
I guess i didn't explain myself clearly enough.
I mean that Vargoth's effect opens up for weird interactions, that are yet perfectly consistent with how end-of-turn currently works.
That may be a bug, but not necessarily so.
If Vargoth was summoned, it was played, or drawn, or you missed some other interactions happening.
Might be a bug. Toast has a vid, I LOST TO A BUG! 💢 Lorewalker Cho Combo Rogue w/ Unstable Element, Unseen Saboteur. Its not exactly the same thing that has been posted but uses same card Fel Lord Bertrug.
Edit: sorry Ginzo did not see your post, would not have posted this one had I noticed yours, my bad. You got here first.
I'm not dead yet!
One interesting thing I noticed about Fel Lord Betrug is that minions summoned through card-draw during your opponent's turn (say he plays Coldlight Oracle) do not actually die at the end of this turn, but at the end of your own. Considering the card text it seems like a bug - then again, consistency in card text isn't exactly Blizz's strong suit.
"My life... for Aiùr."
Vargoth triggers after you end your turn.. if your minions cannot die "AT the end of the turn" if the turn has already ended.
-DadamE
Think of Betrug having 2 effects: 1st, summoning minions, 2nd, destroying minions.
The example with Y'shaarj and Rag was a simpler way to describe what happened. When the end-of-turn arrives, you should think of it as an instant: whatever end-of-turn effects happen, they do at that instant (in this case, Betrug's 2nd effect and Vargoth's effect).
In fact, if you noticed your opponent's turn 11, the Mountain Giant that was summoned by Vargoth died then, because that was the next instant of end-of-turn effects your opponent had.
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I had a game with a similar instance. Rush minions didnt die.
It's working as intended.
Remember how it used to be that if you pulled Wild Pyromancer from a spell (ie: Oaken Summons) the Pyromancer would ping the board. And they changed it so that all interactions are checked at the beginning of an event so that triggers don't go off unless they were present from the start. Well this is a side-product of that.
Here is whats happening:
End of Turn starts. End of turn consists of two steps. End of Turn interactions are checked. End of Turn interactions are triggered in the order they came onto the battlefield.
End of Turn triggers are checked. There are two things that need resolving 1. Vargoth casts a spell. 2. Betrug's dies at end of turn effect.
End of Turn triggers are resolved. Vargoth casts Plot Twist creating new minions from Betrug's effect but because the end of turn trigger check has already happened the dies at end of turn ability for these new minions does not resolve but does for Vargoth and Elysiana because they were present at the beginning of the End of Turn.
Interesting to note 2 things here.
1. Since Vargoth casts his end of turn then dies it implies that the minion, not Betrug, triggers the dies at end of turn ability. If it was Betrug resolving the ability then Vargoth would die without getting to cast Plot Twist since resolves happen in order and Betrug was on the field first. This means that it does not matter which of Vargoth and Betrug were played first. If Vargoth were played the turn before and survived to see Betrug/Plot Twist played the next turn then the same result would happen. This is important to note because it means if you did something like Betrug into Plot Twist into Sacrificial Pact on Betrug the minions would still die. Betrug being on the field has no impact on the minions dying at end of turn.
2. The Mountain Giant that he draws from Vargoth's Plot Twist does die at the end of the next turn so the minion does not lose the "Dies at end of turn" ability. It simply isn't triggered that turn because it wasn't on the board when the check happens.
Also, there is a bug here, but not in Hearthstone. Its in HSreplay's deck tracker. Apparently drawing the 2/2 Rush Demon confuses the deck tracker and it shows a blank card then an incorrect card. Your opponent **did** draw Vargoth but they did it immediately after the Rush Demon and so it just shows a blank there then Scargill, which your opponent can't possibly be running since its a Shaman minion. Same thing happened with Archivist Elysiana and it for some reason shows a blank then an Emeriss in hand.
i get what your saying. However, Bertrug text is Universal in nature. It has only has 2 deciding factors, summon, and die at the end. Its Universal. No qualifiers for its trigger. So Bertrug only honoring 1 part of its text seems like a bug. Why trigger the summons and not the death?