In Cubelock decks this card is getting excessive. Pressuring the Warlock with everything you have, just to lose that lethal push to a 1 mana card, that triggers a Possessed Lackey or Carnivorous Cube for a powerful charge or taunt minion.
The reason Doomguard is cheap mana cost for it's stat line + charge, is because it has a draw back in discarding two cards for a charge ability. The reason Voidlord is an expensive card, is because of it's deathrattle reward and it's investment in Bloodreaver Gul'dan.
It all comes back to Dark Pact. Allowing you to get a high mana cost minion in start of the mid range game with 1 mana, and gaining 8 life. Furthermore; the the Dark Pact can also give you a hard hitting Doomguard for no drawback + 8 life gain. With 7 health stat, the demon is hard to even deal with before it gets combo into Cube.
Most of us have the Cube decklist, and it's been spammed all over the ladder from rank 20-legend1 all over the world. The main reason it's successful is Dark Pact allows it to gain a big life gain, and trigger a deathrattle, which gives powerful demon minions early, for no drawback.
This combo has been argued for a couple months now, and Team 5 is running with things as it is. Winning with cubelock doesn't even feel like a Victory, it feels like a cheat in a Card Game as limited as Hearthstone. This is mainly because of how easy it is to invest in flooding the board with taunts and large charge minions with no drawback.
How do others feel about this 1 drop Dark Pact allowing for life gain + deathrattle trigger + setting up combos and investing in Bloodreaver Gul'dan? Allowing the player to by-pass the drawback of Doomguard, and playing a high-cost-large-body on turn 5-6 in Voidlord?
I do not think their is a problem with Cube, Doomguard, Voidlord themselves, they are perfect cards in their own way. I think Dark Pact is too cheap for it's 8 life gain, deathrattle trigger and investment for future turns.
@Mods: I cannot delete the original poll I don't think? Now it looks weird lol. Can we change that?
The way I see Dark Pact is the same way Team 5 removed Conceal, Ice Lance and the like. 1 cost cards that have huge impact in the later rounds of the game.
They printed a new 1 cost card Dark possession, so if dark pact is to be nerfed, some may run Dark possession instead; it just won't give 8 health right away.
They printed a new 1 cost card Dark possession, so if dark pact is to be nerfed, some may run Dark possession instead; it just won't give 8 health right away.
the idea of Dark pact isnt the 8 health, it's activating the cube.
They printed a new 1 cost card Dark possession, so if dark pact is to be nerfed, some may run Dark possession instead; it just won't give 8 health right away.
the idea of Dark pact isnt the 8 health, it's activating the cube.
Yes and you just absolutely don't mind your opponent healing almost a third of his health for 1 mana with NO DRAWBACK. Especially with an aggro deck.
Sanguine Reveler does the same thing except it provides more board control minus the health. Also Ratchatcher is now a thing which i prefer to dark pact on a turn 8 or greater cube
Dark pact is definitely strong with cube + doomguard or voidlord but I feel it is the most frustrating when you get to deal 15 dmg in a turn when using it with cube doomguard .
I think the best fix of all is to have doomguard gain charge with his battlecry.
Another thought is that warlocks would be just dying if there was no dark pact. Think about it: amethyst, siphon, gul'dan. Only Amethyst is cheap enough for you to survive against aggro. Yeah, you have defile and hellfire to clear, but how often do you draw them when they are so needed? Well, if dark pact was to be removed and there is no dark possession which could be its substitute then warlock cannot effectively draw out strong demons from the deck which is a big cut on the warlock's ability to be a control deck. I mean people can obviously try different versions and such but still. Pact gives this ability to survive. Lackey and skull are reasonably costed in my opinion. I understand it is frustrating to see doomguards and voidlords that early in the game sometimes, but it is perfect for warlocks to survive against aggro. In Control people have more tools to deal with demons. Aggro uses silence to get through and they do it perfectly most of the time.
Let me quote what I wrote recently about Cubelock, that means Dark Pact and - because it really fits - Possessed Lackey:
Possessed Lackey should have got "If it's your turn" OR "If it's your opponent's turn" added to its already existing effect. With the first change variant, playing him on turn 5 is basically rendered moot making him slower and with the second variant, any synergy with Dark Pact is gone and you are basically forced to give him tauntor buffs.
If that does not prove to be enough, I would also make Dark Pact kill a random friendly minion.
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As you see, I would not touch Dark Pact before looking at Lackey...
They printed a new 1 cost card Dark possession, so if dark pact is to be nerfed, some may run Dark possession instead; it just won't give 8 health right away.
the idea of Dark pact isnt the 8 health, it's activating the cube.
Dark possession will kill the lackey and get the demon out, plus you get to discover a random demon which is cool albeit not powerful sometimes. Dark pact also heals you up which is crucial against aggro.
Dark pact is definitely strong with cube + doomguard or voidlord but I feel it is the most frustrating when you get to deal 15 dmg in a turn when using it with cube doomguard .
I think the best fix of all is to have doomguard gain charge with his battlecry.
I think you are right about thinking of fixing doomguard rather than other cards which I think are balanced enough. Doomguard's charge could also be changed to Rush as we have the new expansion here and that would remove the otk capacity of the deck. And obviously change the text, because you don't want to discard two cards for rush anymore, maybe just one but preserving 5-7 or 5-6 which is comparable to scaleworm at 4 mana.
There is nothing wrong with Dark Pact. In fact, it's actually underbudgeted. You gain a measly 1 mana advantage of a dedicated "Restore 8 health to your hero", which is worth less than 2 mana, for killing your own minion.
Possessed Lackey is the only issue whatsoever and I'm amazed how everyone keeps saying something else, like Dark Pact, Doomguard, Voidlord or Cube. It's just crystal clear.
Honestly all they have to do is change it so you can only destroy a friendly demon. Would render the card useless in terms of mana cheating a motherfucking 6/18 taunt while also healing for 8 health on turn 5/6. It would make Dark Pact a slightly better Sacrificial Pact.
Also as somebody ells has stated, maybe change it so it silences the minion first and then destroys it.
There is nothing wrong with Dark Pact. In fact, it's actually underbudgeted. You gain a measly 1 mana advantage of a dedicated "Restore 8 health to your hero", which is worth less than 2 mana, for killing your own minion.
Possessed Lackey is the only issue whatsoever and I'm amazed how everyone keeps saying something else, like Dark Pact, Doomguard, Voidlord or Cube. It's just crystal clear.
The hell are you on about. Cube + Doomguard + dark pact is clearly a problem. Doomguard already has a powerful and cheatin 3 doomguards with no drawbacks is totally insande by turn 6/7.
There is nothing wrong with Dark Pact. In fact, it's actually underbudgeted. You gain a measly 1 mana advantage of a dedicated "Restore 8 health to your hero", which is worth less than 2 mana, for killing your own minion.
Possessed Lackey is the only issue whatsoever and I'm amazed how everyone keeps saying something else, like Dark Pact, Doomguard, Voidlord or Cube. It's just crystal clear.
The hell are you on about. Cube + Doomguard + dark pact is clearly a problem. Doomguard already has a powerful and cheatin 3 doomguards with no drawbacks is totally insande by turn 6/7.
Nerfing Doomguard for would be enough.
And what if lackey cost 7 ??? I dont think doomguard would be a problem.. He never is...lackey is problem cause perfect curve.. 5 mana lackey, 6 mana cube + dark pact...
People calling nerfs to Doomguard is insane. The card is perfect as it is, and is essential to other Warlock Archetypes like Zoolock, Discolock or Demonlock.
Is has a balanced drawback because of it's overall Power in 5 attack-charge demon type.
In Cubelock decks this card is getting excessive. Pressuring the Warlock with everything you have, just to lose that lethal push to a 1 mana card, that triggers a Possessed Lackey or Carnivorous Cube for a powerful charge or taunt minion.
The reason Doomguard is cheap mana cost for it's stat line + charge, is because it has a draw back in discarding two cards for a charge ability. The reason Voidlord is an expensive card, is because of it's deathrattle reward and it's investment in Bloodreaver Gul'dan.
It all comes back to Dark Pact. Allowing you to get a high mana cost minion in start of the mid range game with 1 mana, and gaining 8 life. Furthermore; the the Dark Pact can also give you a hard hitting Doomguard for no drawback + 8 life gain. With 7 health stat, the demon is hard to even deal with before it gets combo into Cube.
Most of us have the Cube decklist, and it's been spammed all over the ladder from rank 20-legend1 all over the world. The main reason it's successful is Dark Pact allows it to gain a big life gain, and trigger a deathrattle, which gives powerful demon minions early, for no drawback.
This combo has been argued for a couple months now, and Team 5 is running with things as it is. Winning with cubelock doesn't even feel like a Victory, it feels like a cheat in a Card Game as limited as Hearthstone. This is mainly because of how easy it is to invest in flooding the board with taunts and large charge minions with no drawback.
How do others feel about this 1 drop Dark Pact allowing for life gain + deathrattle trigger + setting up combos and investing in Bloodreaver Gul'dan? Allowing the player to by-pass the drawback of Doomguard, and playing a high-cost-large-body on turn 5-6 in Voidlord?
I do not think their is a problem with Cube, Doomguard, Voidlord themselves, they are perfect cards in their own way. I think Dark Pact is too cheap for it's 8 life gain, deathrattle trigger and investment for future turns.
@Mods: I cannot delete the original poll I don't think? Now it looks weird lol. Can we change that?
"Do you smell something...burning?
I would add another option.
Dark pact should be changed to "Silence a friendly minion, then destroy it. Restore 8 health to your hero"
Still good health gain, but no more lackey/cube tricks.
The way I see Dark Pact is the same way Team 5 removed Conceal, Ice Lance and the like. 1 cost cards that have huge impact in the later rounds of the game.
"Do you smell something...burning?
They printed a new 1 cost card Dark possession, so if dark pact is to be nerfed, some may run Dark possession instead; it just won't give 8 health right away.
i would rather see that it silences a minion before destroying it. That way you can heal but not summon freakin demons.
I would leave it at 1 mana because of my boy Skulking Geist
As much as I agree, the bias in the poll option for disagreeing is stronk
Sanguine Reveler does the same thing except it provides more board control minus the health. Also Ratchatcher is now a thing which i prefer to dark pact on a turn 8 or greater cube
Dark pact is definitely strong with cube + doomguard or voidlord but I feel it is the most frustrating when you get to deal 15 dmg in a turn when using it with cube doomguard .
I think the best fix of all is to have doomguard gain charge with his battlecry.
Another thought is that warlocks would be just dying if there was no dark pact. Think about it: amethyst, siphon, gul'dan. Only Amethyst is cheap enough for you to survive against aggro. Yeah, you have defile and hellfire to clear, but how often do you draw them when they are so needed? Well, if dark pact was to be removed and there is no dark possession which could be its substitute then warlock cannot effectively draw out strong demons from the deck which is a big cut on the warlock's ability to be a control deck. I mean people can obviously try different versions and such but still. Pact gives this ability to survive. Lackey and skull are reasonably costed in my opinion. I understand it is frustrating to see doomguards and voidlords that early in the game sometimes, but it is perfect for warlocks to survive against aggro. In Control people have more tools to deal with demons. Aggro uses silence to get through and they do it perfectly most of the time.
Let me quote what I wrote recently about Cubelock, that means Dark Pact and - because it really fits - Possessed Lackey:
Possessed Lackey should have got "If it's your turn" OR "If it's your opponent's turn" added to its already existing effect. With the first change variant, playing him on turn 5 is basically rendered moot making him slower and with the second variant, any synergy with Dark Pact is gone and you are basically forced to give him tauntor buffs.
If that does not prove to be enough, I would also make Dark Pact kill a random friendly minion.
---
As you see, I would not touch Dark Pact before looking at Lackey...
There is nothing wrong with Dark Pact. In fact, it's actually underbudgeted. You gain a measly 1 mana advantage of a dedicated "Restore 8 health to your hero", which is worth less than 2 mana, for killing your own minion.
Possessed Lackey is the only issue whatsoever and I'm amazed how everyone keeps saying something else, like Dark Pact, Doomguard, Voidlord or Cube. It's just crystal clear.
Honestly all they have to do is change it so you can only destroy a friendly demon. Would render the card useless in terms of mana cheating a motherfucking 6/18 taunt while also healing for 8 health on turn 5/6. It would make Dark Pact a slightly better Sacrificial Pact.
Also as somebody ells has stated, maybe change it so it silences the minion first and then destroys it.
People calling nerfs to Doomguard is insane. The card is perfect as it is, and is essential to other Warlock Archetypes like Zoolock, Discolock or Demonlock.
Is has a balanced drawback because of it's overall Power in 5 attack-charge demon type.
Craziness to nerf Doomguard.
"Do you smell something...burning?
You either like it as it is, having no drawback for cards that were printed with a drawback (doomguard, high cost voidlord).
Or you think it's mana cost needs a change.
Or it's just a big heal gain for 1 mana, and meh.
Edit: Added a new poll to show less bias lol. Don't know if its possible to delete the original.
"Do you smell something...burning?