So i know threads like these happen all the time, but i just wanted to express the 3 cards i think should be nerfed just allow the meta to become alot more open and make it alot more interesting . So lets look at what is basically the meta. the Decks that most people netdeck are Spiteful priest/druid, Aggro Paladin and Cubelock. Paladin seems fine but i think they should fix it also so here are the cards think they should change.
1, Lackey - We all underrated this card....but i feel this card is why Cubelock as good as it is. Cheating out a doomguard and Voidlord is basically game over against alot of decks if you cant answer them. I suggest you change the text of the card to say something like " Draw a demon from your deck" or make it 6 mana to prevent it from coming down early.
2. Spiteful Summoner - Blizzard has nerfed cards because they arent fun to play against and this card falls under that. The other thing people dont realize is that Spiteful pretty much makes it so blizzard cant make any big spells because this card exists. I suggest that they make the Card 1 mana higher. generally decks that spiteful are in are minion heavy decks so its more or less a Win more card.
3. Call to Arms - This card is basically what has put paladin where it is. I think making it 5 mana will balance it to the fact it puts 6 mana on minions into play and gives you the board.
but for summoner: it goes with the huge downside on building your whole deck without any cheap spells or completely useless, hence it still can sit on your hand completely useless if you draw your big spells inbefore. and its actually not that much of a deal to put a Big Game Hunter into your deck as i have mentioned before in many other threads here... cmon. be a little creative. Summoner is not the Problem at all.
Call to Arms... is a good card, but it was desperately needed in Paladin at the time it came up. Since you draw 3 random creatures you dont know what you get, hence you cant really rely on it completely. And if you draw it late into the game its a complete garbage /useless card if you pull only about 2-3 mana worth of minions. Making it 5 Mana would make it kinda maybe not useless, but definitly not rewarding for playing it at all.
3. Call to Arms - This card is basically what has put paladin where it is. I think making it 5 mana will balance it to the fact it puts 6 mana on minions into play and gives you the board.
No it hasn't, Baku Paladin is the most popular Pally deck right now and it doesn't run it.
Putting it at 5 mana basically removes it completely from the Genn Paladin lineup and gives it to Baku Pally. Baku Pally won't play it because summoning 3 1-drops is awful. So the card will only be available to ''regular'' Paladins and Murloc Pallies.
This doesn't fix Paladin, it will just kill Genn Paladin without touching his Baku sister and be a minor nerf to the other Paladin decks. It would be a slap in the face to anyone who crafted Genn Greymane. What the fuck will we play then. Even Shaman?
Can t agree more. All those cards should be nerfed. Further more, i would also change the reward of The Caverns Below. I know it has already been nerfed, but card like this that allows 20 dmg in one turn shouldn t exist Every control deck lose to Quest Rogue, due to the abnormous burst damage. Then, making all your minions 5/5, doesn t fit with class identity. Just make something like "Your spells cost 1 this turn" or "make your hero power destroy a random enemy minion". I know it s a bit weird, these are only examples, i also know that Quest rogue is very weak against aggro decks, but is the concept of the card, which isn t fun neither interactive. You has just to watch your opponent that plays his minion and returns it to his hand, and then, suddenly, he floods the board with 5/5 charge. If you try to build a board they just play vanish. C'mon
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"The flow of time is always cruel... its speed seems different for each person, but no one can change it... A thing that does not change with time is a memory of younger days..."
3. Call to Arms - This card is basically what has put paladin where it is. I think making it 5 mana will balance it to the fact it puts 6 mana on minions into play and gives you the board.
No it hasn't, Baku Paladin is the most popular Pally deck right now and it doesn't run it.
Putting it at 5 mana basically removes it completely from the Genn Paladin lineup and gives it to Baku Pally. Baku Pally won't play it because summoning 3 1-drops is awful. So the card will only be available to ''regular'' Paladins and Murloc Pallies.
This doesn't fix Paladin, it will just kill Genn Paladin without touching his Baku sister and be a minor nerf to the other Paladin decks. It would be a slap in the face to anyone who crafted Genn Greymane. What the fuck will we play then. Even Shaman?
uh what? before Rotation paladin was most popular aggro deck, Call to arms is the reason why its busted. Also no shit Baku paladin doesnt have call to arms...... Also what will you play? Im guessing you netdeck paladin so im guessing youre just gonna play whatever aggro deck will become popular.
Eveytime a nerf has been made, another deck pops up and is too overpowered. If you nerf Cubelock, Pally, and Spitefull decks right now, maybe we have a meta with Face Hunter that just kills you on turn 5.
Or maybe the meta switches to Shudderwock, that will be playable because there are no aggro decks?
Who knows, so don't come to quickly with your nerfs. It will just leave another strong deck open to dominate
5 mana call to arms is a buff to murlocadin cause it doesnt fit into baku even tho they could run it and destroys genn pally making murlocadin the go to deck which imo is the best and more disgusting aggro deck already very strong and i dont wanna face that bs deck every 2 matches
Call To Arms is only in about half the paladin decks out there. It's good, but I don't think it's in a must-nerf tier.
Spiteful Summoner might be up there, but the deck-building requirement of only running big spells might be enough. Spiteful decks are strict minion-curve decks, and those can have weaknesses. They often don't have tools to deal with some things, and tend to be really draw-RNG dependent. It might still be too strong, and perhaps should have a weaker body. At 3/3 or 2/3 instead of 4/4, that's a considerably smaller board presence. There's still the unpleasant RNG of it (do you draw it on 6? do you get a good minion or a bad one summoned), however.
I kinda see Lackey (going up to 6 mana, for instance), but I'd rather see Doomguard get hit. Lackey will rotate in time, as will Voidlord. Recruiting Voidlord is a lot of body early, can really shut down Aggro, but if that's all it can do, I don't know if it's the key problem. Personally, I think the biggest issue in Warlocks is that the heavy control of Voidlord combines in a deck so easily with the burst and removal of Doomguard. We've had Doomguard since day 1, and I'm just bored of it. Ice Block being out of Mage is good. Any time there's some way to play it with reduced consequences, it's been a 2-of in Warlock, and it still sees play in Zoo where you just dump your hand. The stats (particularly the HP) are just too high, and the burst is kinda BS. My favorite change would be to lower the stats to 5/5 and move the Charge to the battlecry, so it only has burst when normally played out of hand, not when cheated out. Does this kill it? Maybe. But let the past die. Kill it, if you have to.
I agree on Spitefull and Call to arms, but I'm so tired of people blaming lackey, Voidlord or Dark pact for cubelock. The real problem with cubelock is the insane amount of burst from Doomguards - if doomguard didn't have charge, but rush that would fix that or maybe make its charge a battlecry so when cheated out or resummoned by DK it wont go face.
3. Call to Arms - This card is basically what has put paladin where it is. I think making it 5 mana will balance it to the fact it puts 6 mana on minions into play and gives you the board.
No it hasn't, Baku Paladin is the most popular Pally deck right now and it doesn't run it.
Putting it at 5 mana basically removes it completely from the Genn Paladin lineup and gives it to Baku Pally. Baku Pally won't play it because summoning 3 1-drops is awful. So the card will only be available to ''regular'' Paladins and Murloc Pallies.
This doesn't fix Paladin, it will just kill Genn Paladin without touching his Baku sister and be a minor nerf to the other Paladin decks. It would be a slap in the face to anyone who crafted Genn Greymane. What the fuck will we play then. Even Shaman?
uh what? before Rotation paladin was most popular aggro deck, Call to arms is the reason why its busted. Also no shit Baku paladin doesnt have call to arms...... Also what will you play? Im guessing you netdeck paladin so im guessing youre just gonna play whatever aggro deck will become popular.
This comment alone... Is so absurdly close minded. He has a valid point of the fact that Genn doesn't have very many other good slots as of now, so it would kind of kill that card (There are some good decks out there that run him, yes, but you don't see them often, they're rare decks). You didn't counter ANY of his points. You just started attacking him because he's defending a card that you don't like lmao. Sure, you might not like it, but guess what, you can counter meta. Or wait, "Im guessing you netdeck" so you don't know how to do that?
I think you're right for the most part, however instead of lackey I'd nerf Dark Pact. I think that stat and effect-wise Lackey is a balanced card for 5 mana, it's the pact that makes lackey and cube annoying. Also, I think some more paladin cards needs to be balanced, and also I'd nerf the upgraded hero power so that your dudes are 2/1s instead of spawing 2 of them, it's just too powerful.
Lackey isn't as big of a problem as it seems. Even if you take lackey out of the game completely, you still have to deal with Skull. The busted card in cubelock is Doomguard, specifically, its charge. Switch charge to rush, and it would still be strong, but would not as overwhelming. Most decks can deal with the initial wave, it's the 3-4 doomguards coming back from Gul'Dan that can't be dealt with.
Spiteful is a touchy one. The thing is, it can be busted as hell, but it is RNG based. Combine that with the fact you have to draw it before you draw your 2-4 big spells, and that you have to gimp your deck with no small spells, and I don't see it as a "must nerf" card, and if they did, I hope it is just adding 1 to the mana cost.
CTA really isn't the problem with Paladin. Paladin is the problem with Paladin. And by that I mean there is no one card, or even series of cards that really contain that deck. If anything, Divine Favor so they at least can't refill their hand. But when they can flood the board over and over again, and each time have the threat of turning their 1/1 tokens into 3/3 or 5/5 taunts with divine shield ... thats going to be a pain in the ass deck for a while.
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I wanna glide down, over Mulholland I wanna write her, name in the sky I wanna free fall, out into nothin' Gonna leave this, world for awhile
A card should cost as much as it best possible result, period. Lackey and Spiteful should be increased to 10 cost. Call to Arms should cost 6. This is a fundamental concept of game balance and the devs know it. What Blizzard has to do is choose if they want a game or a profit vehicle that appeals to inferior players, but it seems they have already decided.
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Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
A card should cost as much as it best possible result, period. Lackey and Spiteful should be increased to 10 cost. Call to Arms should cost 6. This is a fundamental concept of game balance and the devs know it. What Blizzard has to do is choose if they want a game or a profit vehicle that appeals to inferior players, but it seems they have already decided.
I agree that balance should be a higher priority to the developers, but with these changes they might as well delete the cards. Not that I'd have a problem with that, but there are certainly ways to make them more fair even if they aren't totally balanced.
Hmm, I agree that Lackey is a hugely powerful card, but I don't think nerfing it will solve Cubelock being an oppressive deck - Warlocks will just substitute in some other unfair stuff like 4 mana 8/8s or 4/10s. They will still be able to cheat out demons with Skull, too.
So long as Warlock has healing tools, they can leverage their hero power to consistently draw into powerful combos and do unfair things. If you want to stop the power of Cubelock (and I'm not sure it's totally necessary), then I think taking some healing power from Dark Pacts and the spellstone is better (and wouldn't ruin some of the cool stuff Warlocks can do).
Maybe the spellstone can stay "as is" : it's expensive at first, and only becomes a good card once the warlock hurts hisself a lot. But you're right, the issue is the Dark pact : 8 healing is WAY too much, and the 1 mana cost makes it too easy to activate a lackey or a cube on T6.
Now, if Geist wasn't costing 6 mana, maybe the pact could be hard countered, leaving a badly hurt warlock with basically almost no healing until dropping the DK on T10. That's 4 turn for the opponent to achieve the beast, which makes it achievable (yet not easy due to void lord).
I'd rather nerf dark pact, the insane healing and combo potential in this card is just broken. You can silence or poly the lackeys and cubes, but with dark pact you don't even get the chance to.
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So i know threads like these happen all the time, but i just wanted to express the 3 cards i think should be nerfed just allow the meta to become alot more open and make it alot more interesting . So lets look at what is basically the meta. the Decks that most people netdeck are Spiteful priest/druid, Aggro Paladin and Cubelock. Paladin seems fine but i think they should fix it also so here are the cards think they should change.
1, Lackey - We all underrated this card....but i feel this card is why Cubelock as good as it is. Cheating out a doomguard and Voidlord is basically game over against alot of decks if you cant answer them. I suggest you change the text of the card to say something like " Draw a demon from your deck" or make it 6 mana to prevent it from coming down early.
2. Spiteful Summoner - Blizzard has nerfed cards because they arent fun to play against and this card falls under that. The other thing people dont realize is that Spiteful pretty much makes it so blizzard cant make any big spells because this card exists. I suggest that they make the Card 1 mana higher. generally decks that spiteful are in are minion heavy decks so its more or less a Win more card.
3. Call to Arms - This card is basically what has put paladin where it is. I think making it 5 mana will balance it to the fact it puts 6 mana on minions into play and gives you the board.
Hearthstone is a game of "copy and pasting"
you might be kinda right with lackey
but for summoner: it goes with the huge downside on building your whole deck without any cheap spells or completely useless, hence it still can sit on your hand completely useless if you draw your big spells inbefore. and its actually not that much of a deal to put a Big Game Hunter into your deck as i have mentioned before in many other threads here... cmon. be a little creative. Summoner is not the Problem at all.
Call to Arms... is a good card, but it was desperately needed in Paladin at the time it came up. Since you draw 3 random creatures you dont know what you get, hence you cant really rely on it completely. And if you draw it late into the game its a complete garbage /useless card if you pull only about 2-3 mana worth of minions. Making it 5 Mana would make it kinda maybe not useless, but definitly not rewarding for playing it at all.
(Just my opinion)
# Invictus Maneo #
Current Standard Deck: Kolento's Big Shaman:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1267569-big-shaman
Hmmmm... nerf 3 cards that empower 4-5 different decks. Nah, no need, just tech against them... thats what silence, removal, aoe is for.
I would much rather have Secret Paladin be a thing than just normal aggro w/ call to arms
Unpopular opinion: Rogue is OP
Hearthstone is a game of "copy and pasting"
No it hasn't, Baku Paladin is the most popular Pally deck right now and it doesn't run it.
Putting it at 5 mana basically removes it completely from the Genn Paladin lineup and gives it to Baku Pally. Baku Pally won't play it because summoning 3 1-drops is awful. So the card will only be available to ''regular'' Paladins and Murloc Pallies.
This doesn't fix Paladin, it will just kill Genn Paladin without touching his Baku sister and be a minor nerf to the other Paladin decks. It would be a slap in the face to anyone who crafted Genn Greymane. What the fuck will we play then. Even Shaman?
Can t agree more. All those cards should be nerfed. Further more, i would also change the reward of The Caverns Below. I know it has already been nerfed, but card like this that allows 20 dmg in one turn shouldn t exist Every control deck lose to Quest Rogue, due to the abnormous burst damage. Then, making all your minions 5/5, doesn t fit with class identity. Just make something like "Your spells cost 1 this turn" or "make your hero power destroy a random enemy minion". I know it s a bit weird, these are only examples, i also know that Quest rogue is very weak against aggro decks, but is the concept of the card, which isn t fun neither interactive. You has just to watch your opponent that plays his minion and returns it to his hand, and then, suddenly, he floods the board with 5/5 charge. If you try to build a board they just play vanish. C'mon
"The flow of time is always cruel... its speed seems different for each person, but no one can change it... A thing that does not change with time is a memory of younger days..."
Hearthstone is a game of "copy and pasting"
I don't get people want nerfs.
Eveytime a nerf has been made, another deck pops up and is too overpowered. If you nerf Cubelock, Pally, and Spitefull decks right now, maybe we have a meta with Face Hunter that just kills you on turn 5.
Or maybe the meta switches to Shudderwock, that will be playable because there are no aggro decks?
Who knows, so don't come to quickly with your nerfs. It will just leave another strong deck open to dominate
5 mana call to arms is a buff to murlocadin cause it doesnt fit into baku even tho they could run it and destroys genn pally making murlocadin the go to deck which imo is the best and more disgusting aggro deck already very strong and i dont wanna face that bs deck every 2 matches
Excuse my language, but gee willikers could we PLEASE add another card to this list....
I'm sure we all know what card I'm talking about. It has made this game polarizing and very unfun to play against.
I mean I'm clearly talking about DIRE MOLE.
I can't believe no-one is mentioning this...
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/216517-dire-mole-is-ruining-hearthstone-please-nerf
Call To Arms is only in about half the paladin decks out there. It's good, but I don't think it's in a must-nerf tier.
Spiteful Summoner might be up there, but the deck-building requirement of only running big spells might be enough. Spiteful decks are strict minion-curve decks, and those can have weaknesses. They often don't have tools to deal with some things, and tend to be really draw-RNG dependent. It might still be too strong, and perhaps should have a weaker body. At 3/3 or 2/3 instead of 4/4, that's a considerably smaller board presence. There's still the unpleasant RNG of it (do you draw it on 6? do you get a good minion or a bad one summoned), however.
I kinda see Lackey (going up to 6 mana, for instance), but I'd rather see Doomguard get hit. Lackey will rotate in time, as will Voidlord. Recruiting Voidlord is a lot of body early, can really shut down Aggro, but if that's all it can do, I don't know if it's the key problem. Personally, I think the biggest issue in Warlocks is that the heavy control of Voidlord combines in a deck so easily with the burst and removal of Doomguard. We've had Doomguard since day 1, and I'm just bored of it. Ice Block being out of Mage is good. Any time there's some way to play it with reduced consequences, it's been a 2-of in Warlock, and it still sees play in Zoo where you just dump your hand. The stats (particularly the HP) are just too high, and the burst is kinda BS. My favorite change would be to lower the stats to 5/5 and move the Charge to the battlecry, so it only has burst when normally played out of hand, not when cheated out. Does this kill it? Maybe. But let the past die. Kill it, if you have to.
I agree on Spitefull and Call to arms, but I'm so tired of people blaming lackey, Voidlord or Dark pact for cubelock. The real problem with cubelock is the insane amount of burst from Doomguards - if doomguard didn't have charge, but rush that would fix that or maybe make its charge a battlecry so when cheated out or resummoned by DK it wont go face.
I think you're right for the most part, however instead of lackey I'd nerf Dark Pact. I think that stat and effect-wise Lackey is a balanced card for 5 mana, it's the pact that makes lackey and cube annoying. Also, I think some more paladin cards needs to be balanced, and also I'd nerf the upgraded hero power so that your dudes are 2/1s instead of spawing 2 of them, it's just too powerful.
My thoughts:
Lackey isn't as big of a problem as it seems. Even if you take lackey out of the game completely, you still have to deal with Skull. The busted card in cubelock is Doomguard, specifically, its charge. Switch charge to rush, and it would still be strong, but would not as overwhelming. Most decks can deal with the initial wave, it's the 3-4 doomguards coming back from Gul'Dan that can't be dealt with.
Spiteful is a touchy one. The thing is, it can be busted as hell, but it is RNG based. Combine that with the fact you have to draw it before you draw your 2-4 big spells, and that you have to gimp your deck with no small spells, and I don't see it as a "must nerf" card, and if they did, I hope it is just adding 1 to the mana cost.
CTA really isn't the problem with Paladin. Paladin is the problem with Paladin. And by that I mean there is no one card, or even series of cards that really contain that deck. If anything, Divine Favor so they at least can't refill their hand. But when they can flood the board over and over again, and each time have the threat of turning their 1/1 tokens into 3/3 or 5/5 taunts with divine shield ... thats going to be a pain in the ass deck for a while.
I wanna glide down, over Mulholland
I wanna write her, name in the sky
I wanna free fall, out into nothin'
Gonna leave this, world for awhile
A card should cost as much as it best possible result, period. Lackey and Spiteful should be increased to 10 cost. Call to Arms should cost 6. This is a fundamental concept of game balance and the devs know it. What Blizzard has to do is choose if they want a game or a profit vehicle that appeals to inferior players, but it seems they have already decided.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
I'd rather nerf dark pact, the insane healing and combo potential in this card is just broken. You can silence or poly the lackeys and cubes, but with dark pact you don't even get the chance to.