I am mobile and I like the long game. my fav decks are nzoth reno cthun rogue and jaraxxus renolock. i just hate going to fatigue against warriors who I usually beat in fatigue anyway with those decks.
Control is way more fun and requires skill - aggro is lighter on decisions beyond the deck build.
Everyone thought that GODS was gonna favor control decks because of the abundance of control cards - in reality it created an insane zoo-shaman meta (not that zoo was new).
This could have the opposite effect where despite the lack of many control cards, control gets a boost because of non-obvious reasons.
BTW has anyone seriously examined what the loss of blackrock is going to do to the meta? My aformentioned decks are gonna miss thaurissan.
As i see it rigth now in the game there is low amount of aggro and low amount of control decks, aggro now is zoo and shaman, control is warrior(c'thun or normal) and concede shaman. The other aggro decks lack consistency, the other control decks doesnt control, just counter other control decks at best.
On the other hand Midrange decks have disappeared because there is already so mnay good midrange decks, dragon warrior,c'thun druid, Hunter,Tempo warrior,Shaman... plus a lot of decks midrange-ish such as token druid or tempo mage. Everyone complain about aggro because they ALWAYS mix concept (i know that i have mencioned some deck that are not exactly midrange but they work really similar to a midrange one).
The games needs variety and not aggro nor Control have it, i believe that when you bring so many decks that does not have weakness (even if they dont counter so many decks such dragon warrior or token druid) the game can become boring for face the same mucth ups, that also are pretty curve-match ups.
I like all the decks.. tbh I don't think any of the competitive decks are not fun to play or play against.. most annoying thing in the game is reno to me right now, but I still just try and work out how to crush that deck... I still don't know how to beat a reno player who keeps playing the reno back into their deck though, I mean they can fully heal at any point, without a OTK deck you can't beat that (4 weeks in game at most though so I am still earning how to beat these decks)
I thought that stuff like c'thun warrior was top tier though, it certainly seems strong when I've faced it.. one of the main weaknesses of dragon warrior is a good control deck like renolock and c'thun warrior, so I'm a little lost here really... as far as I knew the top end expensive as hell control decks were the best in the game!?
Again, I'm new so if anyone would like to explain this more how the control decks are lacking, I'd be more than happy to read what you have to say... I'm like a little sponge just wanting to soak up all the hearthstone! :)
Moat Lurker is a card that has it's spot in a lot of decks. It can interact with Sylvanas and other deathrattle minions of yours, providing something for N'Zoth, and also can remove big threats (even being "temporary") that can make you win the game. Treating this card lightly is one of the proofs that you just wanna say "control is dead" like every single babycrier since naxxaramas. Control - the archetype itself - has always shone in hearthstone, being present competitively in every single pro tournment. Maybe your specific deck hasn't much of a success, then the problem isn't the archetype.
"The Giant do nothing" -> What? It can make you deal with the board and then leave a strong presence. What game are you playing that control cannot survive until turn 7? Just wat. What happens is that you're usually so behind you cannot comeback, but giant may allow it. Oftenly Vek'lor does, why giant wouldn't? Lol.
C'thun warrior isn't tier 1 (but it keeps being strong in tier 2) not because it lacks resource. The deck simply doesn't have free slots and so you cannot play all the MANY CARDS CONTROLWARRIOR HAS. Still, 4/6 taunt can see play in every other Control deck, which aren't tier by now because they lack resources to deal with the strong late game of midranges and swarmers. Guess what The Curator will provide to them?
The meta will slow down with the new package of cards and that's one of things that will make control back into the meta, as I said before. You don't have to be a genius to notice that.
There are also a lot of other improvements that I'm not reminding neither researching because, meh, you're just babbling, ranting and screaming without having a consistent position, so I won't even try. This argument is soooo old and will NEVER be correct. Most people complaining are just mad because they can't tolerate their 15k dust deck being beated off by a 1,9k deck, but that's because they're bad, and it's not game's fault.
I like all the decks.. tbh I don't think any of the competitive decks are not fun to play or play against.. most annoying thing in the game is reno to me right now, but I still just try and work out how to crush that deck... I still don't know how to beat a reno player who keeps playing the reno back into their deck though, I mean they can fully heal at any point, without a OTK deck you can't beat that (4 weeks in game at most though so I am still earning how to beat these decks)
I thought that stuff like c'thun warrior was top tier though, it certainly seems strong when I've faced it.. one of the main weaknesses of dragon warrior is a good control deck like renolock and c'thun warrior, so I'm a little lost here really... as far as I knew the top end expensive as hell control decks were the best in the game!?
Again, I'm new so if anyone would like to explain this more how the control decks are lacking, I'd be more than happy to read what you have to say... I'm like a little sponge just wanting to soak up all the hearthstone! :)
The best place I think to see what decks are strongest in the meta is Tempo Storm. In my experience whether it is from them accurately compiling data on what people are playing or if people are switching what they play to what Tempo Storm suggests I don't know. It is in my experience a very accurate picture of what you can expect to see the most of on ladder especially at higher ranks.
No, it's not. Card sets don't push the meta, players do.
I think players in a vacuum push a meta that is pretty even. There are definitely enough different types of players to want every type and every class to be viable. That is why there was so much outrage over Purify. Players want a viable Control Priest but they are limited to what the cards will allow them to viably play. Despite how much fun you have playing Control Priest if you lose a lot your going to stop having fun and likely switch to another deck maybe Control Warrior. I think there are a lot of players too who don't care what deck they play as long as it wins. Cards sets absolutely define the Meta.
I don't hate aggro decks or want there to be no aggro decks, but I want a meta where you can play whatever style you want and feel like your playing a fair game where each type of player has a nearly equal amount of decks to choose from and a nearly equal chance to win.
(based on tempo storm btw) The meta was pretty mixed until Dragon Warrior become the top deck since then there has not been a tier 1 control deck. There are 3 or 4 sitting in tier 2 though but I think this release will put even more space between the tier 2 Control decks and the tier 1 aggro decks.
Looking at the cards in this release. There are a lot of cheap cards that are definitely strong: Granny, Raven, Valet, Nightbane, Swashburgler, Spirit Claws, Malchezaar and Golem. The big and midrange drops seem like they may or may not work at best even if you didn't just die after playing them: Ivory Knight, Onyx Bishop, Ethereal, Medivh, Curator. The biggest problem is the cards control decks need to survive to the late game are almost definitely weak: Violet Illusionist, Moonglave Portal, Arcanosmith, Protect the King, Avian Watcher.
How are Swashburgler and Malchezaar aggro cards?
1/1 for 1 is not aggro stats. See nerfed leper gnome. Malchezaar is 100% not an aggro card. It's barely a control card.
I also think it's debatable whether Spirit Claws and Valet could be imagined as aggro cards, because they both require a specific card with a higher mana cost to first be in play...but I won't count them out entirely.
EDIT: Saw that you meant the Imp. Agreed, that's aggro. But Zoo is aggro already, so it's just an addition to a deck that's already T1.
The most obviously playable cards in this set, with the exception of Barnes, (Raven, Grandmother, Huntress, Warden) all have their most obvious spots in either aggro or tempo decks. Raven is obviously powerful for a 1-drop and good for an aggro or midrange Beast Druid. Grandmother's most obvious use is as a sticky, buffable minion, which can be played in both aggro and tempo styles (while a 1/1 deathrattle 3/2 is technically anti-tempo, using that + Sarge to clear a 3 health minion is a good tempo play). Huntress is pure tempo. Warden is anti-tempo in a top-deck situation but is a tempo gain when used on anything better than 1-drop. Barnes really needs a particular deck built around him to be most effective but could certainly be very powerful. Definitely not an aggro/tempo card though.
Control got some nice things to play with but still lacks the bridge to get to them. Without better/cheaper taunt, heal, and board clears, no control deck outside of Warrior is going to live long enough to use them; and Control Warrior is too tuned to take advantage of them anyway. I just don't get all of the Moat Lurker hype. It is either gimpy removal or a super-slow deathrattle combo with your own minions, which is theoretically useful in control v. control, as if those match-ups actually existed on ladder. If anything, aggro will just use it as a neutral Sap if we ever do get useful taunts in constructed lol.
Looking at the cards in this release. There are a lot of cheap cards that are definitely strong: Granny, Raven, Valet, Nightbane, Swashburgler, Spirit Claws, Malchezaar and Golem.
Wait a sec how did I miss this.
Prince Malchezaar is not an aggro card. It is also not a control card. It is also not a good card. It is actually the worst card in all of Hearthstone to put into your deck.
It is a 5 mana 5/6 (Stats that don't see play on their own) with a drawback. And the drawback comes into effect without even playing him.
Sorry friend, you mistook Prince Malchezaar for Purify.
Looking at the cards in this release. There are a lot of cheap cards that are definitely strong: Granny, Raven, Valet, Nightbane, Swashburgler, Spirit Claws, Malchezaar and Golem.
Wait a sec how did I miss this.
Prince Malchezaar is not an aggro card. It is also not a control card. It is also not a good card. It is actually the worst card in all of Hearthstone to put into your deck.
It is a 5 mana 5/6 (Stats that don't see play on their own) with a drawback. And the drawback comes into effect without even playing him.
Sorry friend, you mistook Prince Malchezaar for Purify.
I meant Malchezaars Imp my bad, forgot there was two
I don't aggro meta is bad. I think it really helps out new players who don't have the dust to play control decks.
I do think that is an interesting way to look at it. I wander if there isn't incisive for Blizzard to push an Aggro meta. New players want decks that can win and are cheap to build. Mobile players don't want to play long games.
I don't think aggro should go away for those reasons, I just don't think the game is as interesting when it is a monolithic as it is currently and will likely continue to be on ladder.
aggro is bad for the game as long as control doesn't have rewarding tools, starting by making Ragnaros the Firelord's effect targeteable each turn and leaving it as an effect is a nice start, something like :at the end of your turn, choose an enemy character:it takes 8 damage.
Arcanosmith is more like Sludge Belcher. The major difference is you get both "bodies" at once, but if we treat them as the same :
SB : 3/5 turns into 1/2. 5 mana.
Smith : 0/5 turns into 3/2. 4 mana.
It only loses 1 total stat point. And it costs 1 mana less from one of the strongest staples ever in Hearthstone, a defensive card so strong that FACE decks ran it at times. However, Arcanosmith is not NEARLY as good as Sludge Belcher, don't get me wrong. That 3 attack lost from the initial body is HUGE. Belcher was so good because 3 attack and 5 health were the magic number to usually 2-for-1 BEFORE dying and spawning the 1/2. It was also excellent against board clears. A 0/5 is going to trade with nothing. Its just going to stall.... but you still have a 3/2. Is it nearly as good as SB? No. but my point is it is closer to Sludge Belcher than it is to Healbot. But I can see the comparison to healbot.
I'm not ranting neither screaming (again, wut?). I tried very calmly to explain to you why you don't even make sense as all other "control is dead" crybabies. You just said a lot of babbling based in nothing (except your opinion, which doesn't count in this case because this is a technical arguing).
You just want to believe in what you're saying because you need something to rant of, to call devs stupid or something. This is boring. If you want to keep your screaming bs, then just wait for the settle down - control will be fine, as it always was.
I'm not ranting neither screaming (again, wut?). I tried very calmly to explain to you why you don't even make sense as all other "control is dead" crybabies. You just said a lot of babbling based in nothing (except your opinion, which doesn't count in this case because this is a technical arguing).
You just want to believe in what you're saying because you need something to rant of, to call devs stupid or something. This is boring. If you want to keep your screaming bs, then just wait for the settle down - control will be fine, as it always was.
That's some high quality trolling right there. I think the most impressive part is dismissing someone's argument as just being their opinion, while simultaneously relying entirely upon your own. Either that or saying that Mire Lurker is going to be a thing. Aggro Truthers for the win.
The only decks that will come out of this expansion are Beast Druid, a tempo/midrange deck, and possibly Discolock, which will be the fastest deck in the meta.
I'm not basing stuff in my opinion, but in the views of people that I know that knows more than me. Just watch videos, dude. This ain't a opinion debate, no matter what your relativist teacher said. You can still keep with this "opinion" but so far it's wrong.
Also, you seriously need to read better.
BUT WAIT you're the guy who complains about Raven in every thread! ok dude go there complain how "powercreeps" are insane and how aggro is blah-blah-blah-rank-5-blah-smorc-blah. i'm out of discussing with you.
I am mobile and I like the long game. my fav decks are nzoth reno cthun rogue and jaraxxus renolock. i just hate going to fatigue against warriors who I usually beat in fatigue anyway with those decks.
Control is way more fun and requires skill - aggro is lighter on decisions beyond the deck build.
Everyone thought that GODS was gonna favor control decks because of the abundance of control cards - in reality it created an insane zoo-shaman meta (not that zoo was new).
This could have the opposite effect where despite the lack of many control cards, control gets a boost because of non-obvious reasons.
BTW has anyone seriously examined what the loss of blackrock is going to do to the meta? My aformentioned decks are gonna miss thaurissan.
As i see it rigth now in the game there is low amount of aggro and low amount of control decks, aggro now is zoo and shaman, control is warrior(c'thun or normal) and concede shaman. The other aggro decks lack consistency, the other control decks doesnt control, just counter other control decks at best.
On the other hand Midrange decks have disappeared because there is already so mnay good midrange decks, dragon warrior,c'thun druid, Hunter,Tempo warrior,Shaman... plus a lot of decks midrange-ish such as token druid or tempo mage. Everyone complain about aggro because they ALWAYS mix concept (i know that i have mencioned some deck that are not exactly midrange but they work really similar to a midrange one).
The games needs variety and not aggro nor Control have it, i believe that when you bring so many decks that does not have weakness (even if they dont counter so many decks such dragon warrior or token druid) the game can become boring for face the same mucth ups, that also are pretty curve-match ups.
Having a good time with the meta.
No, this is just a usual babycry that happens since ever. *rolleyes*
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
Corvus oculum corvi non eruit.
I like all the decks.. tbh I don't think any of the competitive decks are not fun to play or play against.. most annoying thing in the game is reno to me right now, but I still just try and work out how to crush that deck... I still don't know how to beat a reno player who keeps playing the reno back into their deck though, I mean they can fully heal at any point, without a OTK deck you can't beat that (4 weeks in game at most though so I am still earning how to beat these decks)
I thought that stuff like c'thun warrior was top tier though, it certainly seems strong when I've faced it.. one of the main weaknesses of dragon warrior is a good control deck like renolock and c'thun warrior, so I'm a little lost here really... as far as I knew the top end expensive as hell control decks were the best in the game!?
Again, I'm new so if anyone would like to explain this more how the control decks are lacking, I'd be more than happy to read what you have to say... I'm like a little sponge just wanting to soak up all the hearthstone! :)
Moat Lurker is a card that has it's spot in a lot of decks. It can interact with Sylvanas and other deathrattle minions of yours, providing something for N'Zoth, and also can remove big threats (even being "temporary") that can make you win the game. Treating this card lightly is one of the proofs that you just wanna say "control is dead" like every single babycrier since naxxaramas. Control - the archetype itself - has always shone in hearthstone, being present competitively in every single pro tournment. Maybe your specific deck hasn't much of a success, then the problem isn't the archetype.
"The Giant do nothing" -> What? It can make you deal with the board and then leave a strong presence. What game are you playing that control cannot survive until turn 7? Just wat. What happens is that you're usually so behind you cannot comeback, but giant may allow it. Oftenly Vek'lor does, why giant wouldn't? Lol.
C'thun warrior isn't tier 1 (but it keeps being strong in tier 2) not because it lacks resource. The deck simply doesn't have free slots and so you cannot play all the MANY CARDS CONTROL WARRIOR HAS. Still, 4/6 taunt can see play in every other Control deck, which aren't tier by now because they lack resources to deal with the strong late game of midranges and swarmers. Guess what The Curator will provide to them?
The meta will slow down with the new package of cards and that's one of things that will make control back into the meta, as I said before. You don't have to be a genius to notice that.
There are also a lot of other improvements that I'm not reminding neither researching because, meh, you're just babbling, ranting and screaming without having a consistent position, so I won't even try. This argument is soooo old and will NEVER be correct. Most people complaining are just mad because they can't tolerate their 15k dust deck being beated off by a 1,9k deck, but that's because they're bad, and it's not game's fault.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
Corvus oculum corvi non eruit.
No, it's not. Card sets don't push the meta, players do.
Make the Card: The biggest thread on the site!
My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
Malchezaar is 100% not an aggro card. It's barely a control card.
The most obviously playable cards in this set, with the exception of Barnes, (Raven, Grandmother, Huntress, Warden) all have their most obvious spots in either aggro or tempo decks. Raven is obviously powerful for a 1-drop and good for an aggro or midrange Beast Druid. Grandmother's most obvious use is as a sticky, buffable minion, which can be played in both aggro and tempo styles (while a 1/1 deathrattle 3/2 is technically anti-tempo, using that + Sarge to clear a 3 health minion is a good tempo play). Huntress is pure tempo. Warden is anti-tempo in a top-deck situation but is a tempo gain when used on anything better than 1-drop. Barnes really needs a particular deck built around him to be most effective but could certainly be very powerful. Definitely not an aggro/tempo card though.
Control got some nice things to play with but still lacks the bridge to get to them. Without better/cheaper taunt, heal, and board clears, no control deck outside of Warrior is going to live long enough to use them; and Control Warrior is too tuned to take advantage of them anyway. I just don't get all of the Moat Lurker hype. It is either gimpy removal or a super-slow deathrattle combo with your own minions, which is theoretically useful in control v. control, as if those match-ups actually existed on ladder. If anything, aggro will just use it as a neutral Sap if we ever do get useful taunts in constructed lol.
TEMPO MAGE
I'm not ranting neither screaming (again, wut?). I tried very calmly to explain to you why you don't even make sense as all other "control is dead" crybabies. You just said a lot of babbling based in nothing (except your opinion, which doesn't count in this case because this is a technical arguing).
You just want to believe in what you're saying because you need something to rant of, to call devs stupid or something. This is boring. If you want to keep your screaming bs, then just wait for the settle down - control will be fine, as it always was.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
Corvus oculum corvi non eruit.
Is it pushing face? Face is the place!
I'm not basing stuff in my opinion, but in the views of people that I know that knows more than me. Just watch videos, dude. This ain't a opinion debate, no matter what your relativist teacher said. You can still keep with this "opinion" but so far it's wrong.
Also, you seriously need to read better.
BUT WAIT you're the guy who complains about Raven in every thread! ok dude go there complain how "powercreeps" are insane and how aggro is blah-blah-blah-rank-5-blah-smorc-blah. i'm out of discussing with you.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
Corvus oculum corvi non eruit.