For those that are concerned about Genn and Baku, as well as the infinitive value death knights (even when they go to wild), what about a card along the lines of a neutral 5 mana 4/4 with battlecry: reset each hero power to it's starting one. It costs (2).
Genn and Baku could gain "start of game and battlecry ..."
Set the card's cost higher or lower if necessary so that it doesn't completely ruin odd or even decks, and they can still benefit for a number of turns if it's played on curve. They can also still regain the upgrade/discount when they play Genn or Baku. Maybe make it an epic so if someone really wants to double down on resetting after Genn or Baku gets played again, they can.
It might hit death knights a little too hard, but at least it gives a way of interacting with the oppressive hero powers. Thoughts?
However, (5) is too cheap, since such a tech can affect a huge number of decks (eg Skulking Geist is (6) and it impairs only a moderate number of decks).
(6), (7) or even (8) is probably more fitting for such a strong and generic tech, without outright killing entire decks with 1 move.
And/or tied to a legendary (unique) card, like Mojomaster Zihi.
And/or with a solid drawback.
But i really like it. And tbh, something on this line sounds like the solution we're gonna see.
Then this card will be auto-included in every wild deck and 90+% of the standard decks for the next 2 years. I don't like auto-include cards - you need to sarcrifice something in return - 1 or 2 spots in your deck is nothing, so it doesn't count. Make a drawback of this card of yours, than maybe. But at the moment - Nope.
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“If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.” ― George Bernard Shaw
EU Legend: S52 (ZooHeal Lock); S76 (Highlander Hunter);
FWIW - I posted a card a few weeks ago. A Neutral 3-mana 3/3 Legendary with Battlecry: non-Basic Hero Powers cost 2 more. The term "non-Basic," would be interpreted to effect the Genn cost-reduction.
However, I'm guessing that the devs will simply change the mana cost and stat-line for Genn and Baku (maybe 4-mana, and 5-mana), have each of them start in hand like a Quest, and change the current SoG effect into a Battlecry.
All the heroes are fine honestly. None of them have ever actually been the problem cards in their decks. Hunter was too strong but it was not because of rexxar. This type of card totally kills mage decks that rely on the dk. It also kills quest taunt warrior and armor up warrior. It would do nothing against decks like even shaman and odd paladin because they need their hero powers most early on in the game. Also, all hero powers are infinite value and there are other infinite value combos in the game. As long as these decks are still vulnerable to fatigue, I don't really see the problem.
Why you still bother with this? They are not promblem they are just boring if anything they should push other archtypes with good cards not nerf previous.There nothing nerfing here odd/even decks have there limits on what they can do and dks in wild are fine as none of them actually breaks the game
The DKs don't cause a problem to wild. In fact, Rexxar will permanently be at a low power level in Wild since there's so many beasts available to be pulled. There's nothing that needs to be done about them.
Genn/Baku's big issue is in their stability in the early game and in how reliable they are. Having to put two cards that will be useless for other decks, rely on you drawing them, and can't be used for teh first few turns, which is Genn/Baku's biggest strength, isn't a useful fix.
It's already been official that the cards are being changed. It's just a question of 'what into'. So let's focus on that rather than changes that won't happen.
The cards coming to hand seems like an elegant solution. I am afraid it may not be enough but if it goe sthrough testing and that ends up being what they choose then I can accept it especially since they seem more wililng to make faster changes if necessary. If it's a battlecry, we could have Baku be a 1 mana 1/1and Genn a 2 mana 2/2 so that you aren't killed for using them, but you lose tempo for future stability. That might be enough to keep them tier 3 and I THINK the community would accept tier 3 versions of the decks.
Yes, Genn needs to be changed. It's not about power level. It's about how, right now, decks that use them play the same every time. It's a fun issue. Genn isn't 'an issue' right now in standard because he's just not used. So is the goal to make Genn/Baku not used at all for the next year? Nuke it from orbit?
I'm not sure that's really a problem. At least 50% of nerfs in this game kill the target card. That's really the point.
Just because shitty nerfs were made, you want another shitty nerf? Nice logic you have, bro.
As said your idea is bad, next.
It's already been official that the cards are being changed. It's just a question of 'what into'. So let's focus on that rather than changes that won't happen.
The DKs don't cause a problem to wild. In fact, Rexxar will permanently be at a low power level in Wild since there's so many beasts available to be pulled. There's nothing that needs to be done about them.
Genn/Baku's big issue is in their stability in the early game and in how reliable they are. Having to put two cards that will be useless for other decks, rely on you drawing them, and can't be used for teh first few turns, which is Genn/Baku's biggest strength, isn't a useful fix.
It's already been official that the cards are being changed. It's just a question of 'what into'. So let's focus on that rather than changes that won't happen.
The cards coming to hand seems like an elegant solution. I am afraid it may not be enough but if it goe sthrough testing and that ends up being what they choose then I can accept it especially since they seem more wililng to make faster changes if necessary. If it's a battlecry, we could have Baku be a 1 mana 1/1and Genn a 2 mana 2/2 so that you aren't killed for using them, but you lose tempo for future stability. That might be enough to keep them tier 3 and I THINK the community would accept tier 3 versions of the decks.
Yes, Genn needs to be changed. It's not about power level. It's about how, right now, decks that use them play the same every time. It's a fun issue. Genn isn't 'an issue' right now in standard because he's just not used. So is the goal to make Genn/Baku not used at all for the next year? Nuke it from orbit?
I dont think your solution works for odd decks and it kills even decks, you can still hero power on two in an odd deck, but Genn decks cant hero power on 1, and at least for me odd decks are the problem right now, Baku is just too much value over the game, Genn decks are tame right now, i dont play wild so i dont know how it is there, i really feel like even decks are way less about the hero power if you compare it at odd decks, both even shaman and pally were hurt when they nerfed some cards in the deck while odd pally just put something else in place of lvl up and keeps its power lvl
ps: not that i dont think it will become something like you said, but i think baku should be 3 mana so you lose the turn 2 or at least a 2 mana 1/1
For those that are concerned about Genn and Baku, as well as the infinitive value death knights (even when they go to wild), what about a card along the lines of a neutral 5 mana 4/4 with battlecry: reset each hero power to it's starting one. It costs (2).
Genn and Baku could gain "start of game and battlecry ..."
Set the card's cost higher or lower if necessary so that it doesn't completely ruin odd or even decks, and they can still benefit for a number of turns if it's played on curve. They can also still regain the upgrade/discount when they play Genn or Baku. Maybe make it an epic so if someone really wants to double down on resetting after Genn or Baku gets played again, they can.
It might hit death knights a little too hard, but at least it gives a way of interacting with the oppressive hero powers. Thoughts?
FWIW - I posted a card a few weeks ago. A Neutral 3-mana 3/3 Legendary with Battlecry: non-Basic Hero Powers cost 2 more. The term "non-Basic," would be interpreted to effect the Genn cost-reduction.
The problem with both of these ideas is that if you draw these tech cards than you instantly win the fucking game. HORRIBLE DESIGN
I always thought a good (maybe 'fun' is a more accurate term here) idea might be cards that allow (force?) interaction from your opponent on your turn. i.e. "Your opponent discovers a card for you", or "Your opponent chooses where this minion attacks (from their side of the board)" or something. It'd have to alter the time restraints on your turn, though, to prevent your opponent from running down the clock for you. Maybe give them 20 seconds to interact, which doesn't come out of your turn time, otherwise a selection is picked at random.
With this in mind, maybe a reverse Sir Finley would be great. "Battlecry: Your opponent discovers a new hero power". If that's too powerful, maybe they don't even have to be exclusively basic hero powers? Maybe DK hero powers can be added into the pool?
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For those that are concerned about Genn and Baku, as well as the infinitive value death knights (even when they go to wild), what about a card along the lines of a neutral 5 mana 4/4 with battlecry: reset each hero power to it's starting one. It costs (2).
Genn and Baku could gain "start of game and battlecry ..."
Set the card's cost higher or lower if necessary so that it doesn't completely ruin odd or even decks, and they can still benefit for a number of turns if it's played on curve. They can also still regain the upgrade/discount when they play Genn or Baku. Maybe make it an epic so if someone really wants to double down on resetting after Genn or Baku gets played again, they can.
It might hit death knights a little too hard, but at least it gives a way of interacting with the oppressive hero powers. Thoughts?
I totally like the concept.
However, (5) is too cheap, since such a tech can affect a huge number of decks (eg Skulking Geist is (6) and it impairs only a moderate number of decks).
(6), (7) or even (8) is probably more fitting for such a strong and generic tech, without outright killing entire decks with 1 move.
And/or tied to a legendary (unique) card, like Mojomaster Zihi.
And/or with a solid drawback.
But i really like it. And tbh, something on this line sounds like the solution we're gonna see.
Then this card will be auto-included in every wild deck and 90+% of the standard decks for the next 2 years. I don't like auto-include cards - you need to sarcrifice something in return - 1 or 2 spots in your deck is nothing, so it doesn't count. Make a drawback of this card of yours, than maybe. But at the moment - Nope.
“If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.” ― George Bernard Shaw
EU Legend: S52 (ZooHeal Lock); S76 (Highlander Hunter);
FWIW - I posted a card a few weeks ago. A Neutral 3-mana 3/3 Legendary with Battlecry: non-Basic Hero Powers cost 2 more. The term "non-Basic," would be interpreted to effect the Genn cost-reduction.
However, I'm guessing that the devs will simply change the mana cost and stat-line for Genn and Baku (maybe 4-mana, and 5-mana), have each of them start in hand like a Quest, and change the current SoG effect into a Battlecry.
fixing Baku to battlecry that starts in hand is ok but you can't do that to Genn
All the heroes are fine honestly. None of them have ever actually been the problem cards in their decks. Hunter was too strong but it was not because of rexxar. This type of card totally kills mage decks that rely on the dk. It also kills quest taunt warrior and armor up warrior. It would do nothing against decks like even shaman and odd paladin because they need their hero powers most early on in the game. Also, all hero powers are infinite value and there are other infinite value combos in the game. As long as these decks are still vulnerable to fatigue, I don't really see the problem.
Short: Bad idea, next.
Long: Your ideas would kill the mentioned cards, that's bad way to design unique strong cards, which create more deck building possebilities.
My first created Hearthstone cards:
Why you still bother with this? They are not promblem they are just boring if anything they should push other archtypes with good cards not nerf previous.There nothing nerfing here odd/even decks have there limits on what they can do and dks in wild are fine as none of them actually breaks the game
Anti heropower tech cards, you say? Try these powerhouses...
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
The DKs don't cause a problem to wild. In fact, Rexxar will permanently be at a low power level in Wild since there's so many beasts available to be pulled. There's nothing that needs to be done about them.
Genn/Baku's big issue is in their stability in the early game and in how reliable they are. Having to put two cards that will be useless for other decks, rely on you drawing them, and can't be used for teh first few turns, which is Genn/Baku's biggest strength, isn't a useful fix.
It's already been official that the cards are being changed. It's just a question of 'what into'. So let's focus on that rather than changes that won't happen.
The cards coming to hand seems like an elegant solution. I am afraid it may not be enough but if it goe sthrough testing and that ends up being what they choose then I can accept it especially since they seem more wililng to make faster changes if necessary. If it's a battlecry, we could have Baku be a 1 mana 1/1and Genn a 2 mana 2/2 so that you aren't killed for using them, but you lose tempo for future stability. That might be enough to keep them tier 3 and I THINK the community would accept tier 3 versions of the decks.
Yes, Genn needs to be changed. It's not about power level. It's about how, right now, decks that use them play the same every time. It's a fun issue. Genn isn't 'an issue' right now in standard because he's just not used. So is the goal to make Genn/Baku not used at all for the next year? Nuke it from orbit?
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
I'm not sure that's really a problem. At least 50% of nerfs in this game kill the target card. That's really the point.
Just because shitty nerfs were made, you want another shitty nerf? Nice logic you have, bro.
As said your idea is bad, next.
Source?
My first created Hearthstone cards:
I dont think your solution works for odd decks and it kills even decks, you can still hero power on two in an odd deck, but Genn decks cant hero power on 1, and at least for me odd decks are the problem right now, Baku is just too much value over the game, Genn decks are tame right now, i dont play wild so i dont know how it is there, i really feel like even decks are way less about the hero power if you compare it at odd decks, both even shaman and pally were hurt when they nerfed some cards in the deck while odd pally just put something else in place of lvl up and keeps its power lvl
ps: not that i dont think it will become something like you said, but i think baku should be 3 mana so you lose the turn 2 or at least a 2 mana 1/1
there is also Mindbreaker
Sideshow Spelleater.
All cards are balanced, but some cards are more balanced than others.
The problem with both of these ideas is that if you draw these tech cards than you instantly win the fucking game. HORRIBLE DESIGN
Here's the problem.
Genn/Baku get most of their power from their early game hero powers.
A minion 6 mana or more would be too slow and too disruptive to the deck building of many classes.
A minion 4 Mana or less would make the Mulligan too important and turn games into coinflips.
5 might be the sweet spot but I don't the the Mulligan and autoincludes would go down nicely.
Battlecry: Each player gains a random hero power.
if baku is a 5 mana battlecry it will be just a worse Justicar Trueheart .
I always thought a good (maybe 'fun' is a more accurate term here) idea might be cards that allow (force?) interaction from your opponent on your turn. i.e. "Your opponent discovers a card for you", or "Your opponent chooses where this minion attacks (from their side of the board)" or something.
It'd have to alter the time restraints on your turn, though, to prevent your opponent from running down the clock for you. Maybe give them 20 seconds to interact, which doesn't come out of your turn time, otherwise a selection is picked at random.
With this in mind, maybe a reverse Sir Finley would be great. "Battlecry: Your opponent discovers a new hero power".
If that's too powerful, maybe they don't even have to be exclusively basic hero powers? Maybe DK hero powers can be added into the pool?