So I have been tinkering with the deck since the first lists came out, thinking at first it was a fun meme deck but... it's performing. No seriously, I don't keep track of my games but I feel I'm doing better with it than with Highlander Hunter! And the meta right now seems about perfect for it:
- Druids seem dead (apparently thank to Rogues and their secret package), and in my experience it was by far the worst matchup for Boar Hunt, in both its Spell and Big archetypes, almost instaconcede in fact. No way for the Boar Hunt to deal with big untargettable taunts or wide boards with minions having more than 2 HPs. Or both (Exotic Mountseller + Ironbark bs).
- Coincidentally, Rogues are now everywhere and the matchup actually feels favored! Their early game is kinda slow and responsive and allows you to draw and build your combo. They're thriving on tempo swings, but they're not getting them against Boar Hunt. Plus the only taunt they run (Shield of Galakrond) is more than manageable. About the only time I lose badly against them is if they build a big Edwin or generate some lucky reborn taunt at the right time from Pharaoh Cat.
- I don't know if it's out of boredom or these new variants are performing better against the meta, but Priests are apparently dropping their Res package... which is great news for Combo Hunter. Any taunt-reborn and of course Convincing Infiltrator + Grave Rune were the bane of Combo Hunt. These new Priest decks are a breeze to deal with in comparison, you don't care if they have 60 heals in hand cause you're fully OTKing them. In fact I'd say it's another favorable matchup (as it should be with a combo deck countering a control deck). Speaking of controls, the matchup seems very favoured against Galalock too - bonus points for them Life Tapping into half-combos range sooner than they should, especially cause they often have no idea what the hell are you doing lol
- Matchup against DH is unfavorable of course, as any aggro should be against a combo deck, BUT. Tempo DH is actually about the best aggro matchup we could hope for. None of their early game minions has more then 2 HPs, meaning they're in Explosive Trap and Dwarven Sharpshooter + hero power range. UTH can still help on their boards. Aggro / Zoo-ish decks that build wider boards with >2 HPs minions, such as Totem Shaman or Murloc Pala, would be lot harder to deal with, but they're not nearly as popular.
Anyone else having similar experiences with this Hunter archetype?
Ah this is the deck that crushed my Spell Druid in 5 turns a couple of days ago. I was quite shocked as I wasn't aware of this deck at all. It went like this: turn 1 pass, turn 2 Scavenger's Ingenuity picking a Boar, turn 3 Coin + Scrap Shot, turn 4 Ramkahen Wildtamer + Tracking (picks up Eaglehorn Bow), turn 5 a secret +Eaglehorn Bow. At this moment I am down to 23 HP, but I have 7 Glowflies on the board and a Savage Roar in hand, however I assume he played Explosive Trap and therefore I don't have lethal. So I Wrath his minion and play Overgrowth feeling very confident with total board control and waiting to pick up a +1/+1 buffing card for lethal. Turn 6 comes a 7/7 Boar, another 7/7 Boar, Kill Command, 3 damage from his weapon and finally a 1/1 boar for exactly 23 damage and lethal.....I was speechless
It is true, combo boar hunter works unexpectedly well for me too!
I love tinkering around with my collection and I rarely rely on deck lists, and usually that leads me to decks that are of course not very viable (since I probably am overwhelmed with the task but it is fun nonetheless).
However, I‘ve recently built a deck revolving around the same combo we‘re talking about here, and I was surprised on how far it got me. I am now on Diamond 7 and that is further than I‘ve ever gotten with a self-tinkered deck!
Also, it is very funny to squish arrogant Priests with a Silence and four 11/11 boars (I‘m a wild player) :D
And just like fellow SirJohn13 up there, I believe this deck is not really common (I have never even encountered one mirror match since I started my climb) and it must be very impressive to encounter the full power of the working combo for the first time :P
I mean, people don‘t really expect boar OTKs these days ^^
And made some changes. For example the other poster is mentioning Eaglehorn Bow, which I never seen played (and I myself don't run, maybe I should lol). Personally I almost immediately removed the 2 Infectious Sporelings, they just weren't working for me, their point was acting as a pseudo-silence for taunts (cause you can't play Owl, being a beast it messes with Scavenger's Ingenuity draw), but there's no way your opponent will let you hit what you want with those spores. I also removed the 2 Imprisoned Felmaws cause I didn't understand what was the point of their inclusion and I just never got value from them. Maybe I'm missing something here.
I added more card draw with 2x Novice Engineers to go along with the Loot Hoarders, Maiev (again as a pseudo silence) and 1 Ruststeed Raider (I felt like I needed a rush minion for surviving midgame but almost all the good rush ones are beasts!). Currently still experimenting.
huh, and again the Charge mechanic is abused :D. This game...why they never changed Huffer, Stonetusk Boar and Unleash the Hounds to have Rush instead of Charge...I'll never understand it.
Rogue has a slow start huh? Laughs in edwin 8/8 turn 4.
To be fair I did mention that lol. Also I'm pretty sure any Hunter has problems dealing with an early big Edwin regardless of the archetype, since he usually come along a bunch of lackeys so Deadly Shot / Rotnest can't reliably remove him.
But Edwin aside, trust me, it's not that uncommon for Rogue to hero power / pass even on turns 4 or 5 when all you're playing is Novice Engineers, Loot Hoarders and Scrap Shots to the face, cause they probably have some tempo play or mini combo that only makes sense to do with an opposite minion on board (ie Backstab + Evil Miscreant). That's what I meant by slow.
huh, and again the Charge mechanic is abused :D. This game...why they never changed Huffer, Stonetusk Boar and Unleash the Hounds to have Rush instead of Charge...I'll never understand it.
Why would they? Charge is fine in general. What wasn't fine was everybody and their mothers running Leeroy possibly with a mini combo for extra damage in basically every deck as a finisher. All those cards you mentioned would be trash if they were rush.
It’s a meme. According to this community, you need to be playing the tier 1 or 2 deck otherwise you are a meme player who is bad and should get a better deck. Don’t forget that’s been the mantra for years please get gud this is a game where fun shouldn’t be encouraged
huh, and again the Charge mechanic is abused :D. This game...why they never changed Huffer, Stonetusk Boar and Unleash the Hounds to have Rush instead of Charge...I'll never understand it.
Why would they? Charge is fine in general. What wasn't fine was everybody and their mothers running Leeroy possibly with a mini combo for extra damage in basically every deck as a finisher. All those cards you mentioned would be trash if they were rush.
Also combo decks need to exist.
Unleash the Hounds and Animal Companion never were combo cards in the first place. They are control cards and the Charge mechanic (which was mostly designed to have immediate board impact vs. aggro, in most cases. There are exceptions, e.g.Bluegill Warrior) is still a problem which they are slowly getting rid of (hence they HoFed Leeroy Jenkins). Also, using Basic cards (which are now over 5 years old) still in todays decks should ring an alarm bell.
There are in general three different Combo deck types in this game: either big minions (Ramp, Portal Warlock, Big beast Hunter) which make hard removals useless, Deathrattle Decks which make Board Clears useless or Weapon/Big Spells/Direct damage, anything that can bypass Taunts which make, again, Boards Clears useless.
It's a meme deck. I've been toying around with a version that runs a lot more card draw, since the main problem with the deck is that it lacks consistency. However, even at 20000 legend, I can't manage to maintain a 1:1 win/loss ratio. Maybe it's just me, but I seem to have far more success with other decks than this one.
huh, and again the Charge mechanic is abused :D. This game...why they never changed Huffer, Stonetusk Boar and Unleash the Hounds to have Rush instead of Charge...I'll never understand it.
Why would they? Charge is fine in general. What wasn't fine was everybody and their mothers running Leeroy possibly with a mini combo for extra damage in basically every deck as a finisher. All those cards you mentioned would be trash if they were rush.
Also combo decks need to exist.
Unleash the Hounds and Animal Companion never were combo cards in the first place. They are control cards and the Charge mechanic (which was mostly designed to have immediate board impact vs. aggro, in most cases. There are exceptions, e.g.Bluegill Warrior) is still a problem which they are slowly getting rid of (hence they HoFed Leeroy Jenkins). Also, using Basic cards (which are now over 5 years old) still in todays decks should ring an alarm bell.
Combo cards are cards that ramp for multiple huge minions midgame (to exhaust controls hard removals), draw cards or can deal direct damage to the opponents hero (e.g. Weapons, Big Spells like Pyroblast, Bombs, anything that can bypass Taunts and is not a minion, since Control loves deleting the board over and over - but if there is no board, control can't play its cards)
The combo and charge arguments were separate, of course I never meant to say UTH and Huffer were combo cards (although UTH actually was... back in the days when it costed 2 along with Buzzard / Timberwolf / Hyena).
Charge isn't a problem when it's on minions with stats that make sense for the cost. Huffer isn't a problem, so isn't UTH in its current iteration. Have you seen anyone recently calling for nerfs on Huffer and UTH? Who would play a 3-mana 4/2 rush, summoned by a spell nonetheless, so it can't even receive buffs from Scavenger and Scrap Shot? Compare to Diving Gryphon and tell me a rush-only Huffer wouldn't be garbage...
And btw Blizzard clearly disagrees with you seeing as they've just printed cards like Kayn Sunfury and less recently Dinotamer Brann. Again, it's Leeroy that was a problem, not the charge mechanic in general. The charge mechanic has already a counter to prevent it to be abused to go face, and it's called taunts. Which are in fact the #1 enemies of this deck. How is it fine that taunt exists as a mechanic (and get strongest every time with ridiculously good minions like Karthut, Bone Wraith or Convincing Infiltrator, just to name a few) but charge has to go? I smell control-player bias here...
Also your idea that combo cards are specifically only those who ramp multiple huge minions is pretty bizarre. That's certainly the case for Druid, or for some DH discounted plays, but that's not the definition of a combo card in general.
huh, and again the Charge mechanic is abused :D. This game...why they never changed Huffer, Stonetusk Boar and Unleash the Hounds to have Rush instead of Charge...I'll never understand it.
Why would they? Charge is fine in general. What wasn't fine was everybody and their mothers running Leeroy possibly with a mini combo for extra damage in basically every deck as a finisher. All those cards you mentioned would be trash if they were rush.
Also combo decks need to exist.
Unleash the Hounds and Animal Companion never were combo cards in the first place. They are control cards and the Charge mechanic (which was mostly designed to have immediate board impact vs. aggro, in most cases. There are exceptions, e.g.Bluegill Warrior) is still a problem which they are slowly getting rid of (hence they HoFed Leeroy Jenkins). Also, using Basic cards (which are now over 5 years old) still in todays decks should ring an alarm bell.
Combo cards are cards that ramp for multiple huge minions midgame (to exhaust controls hard removals), draw cards or can deal direct damage to the opponents hero (e.g. Weapons, Big Spells like Pyroblast, Bombs, anything that can bypass Taunts and is not a minion, since Control loves deleting the board over and over - but if there is no board, control can't play its cards)
The combo and charge arguments were separate, of course I never meant to say UTH and Huffer were combo cards (although UTH actually was... back in the days when it costed 2 along with Buzzard / Timberwolf / Hyena).
Charge isn't a problem when it's on minions with stats that make sense for the cost. Huffer isn't a problem, so isn't UTH in its current iteration. Have you seen anyone recently calling for nerfs on Huffer and UTH? Who would play a 3-mana 4/2 rush, summoned by a spell nonetheless, so it can't even receive buffs from Scavenger and Scrap Shot? Compare to Diving Gryphon and tell me a rush-only Huffer wouldn't be garbage...
And btw Blizzard clearly disagrees with you seeing as they've just printed cards like Kayn Sunfury and less recently Dinotamer Brann. Again, it's Leeroy that was a problem, not the charge mechanic in general. The charge mechanic has already a counter to prevent it to be abused to go face, and it's called taunts. Which are in fact the #1 enemies of this deck. How is it fine that taunt exists as a mechanic (and get strongest every time with ridiculously good minions like Karthut, Bone Wraith or Convincing Infiltrator, just to name a few) but charge has to go? I smell control-player bias here...
Also your idea that combo cards are specifically only those who ramp multiple huge minions is pretty bizarre. That's certainly the case for Druid, or for some DH discounted plays, but that's not the definition of a combo card in general.
My point is, you are comparing a Basic/Classic card Huffer (which still sees a lot of play and is over 5 years old) with Diving Gryphon, of course it needs to be worse. Unleash the Hounds is another card that is very old and still sees play in a lot of decks to finish off the opponent and I think this is limiting design space for new cards, the power level is just too high still. But that's just my opinion, you can have yours, all good.
And whats with that control player bias? I play all three archetypes and all 10 classes so can we please let this nonsense be and remain on the topic? Thanks. Also I never said Charge has to go entirely, only on those specific control cards.
Kayn Sunfury only has 3 Attack for a reason. And Dinotamer Brann is a Combo card as well, huge value, used in Big Beast Hunter. Blizzard is testing decks every expansion and I only say "this card is a combo or aggro or control card" since these cards were prbly used in that archetype when playtesting. Of course that doesn't mean you can't use it in a different archetype, but if you understand the Aggro beats Combo beats Control design behind the game you can definitely group cards into archetypes they are best used in. Espcecially if you analyze the game thoroughly and know why cards have a specific mana cost to curve well.
Also I never said Combo cards exclusively are cards that help summoning big minions. There are direct damage Combo decks which almost have no minions at all so the opponent can't use board clears (Weapons/Big Spells) and Deathrattle decks as well.
It's a meme deck. I've been toying around with a version that runs a lot more card draw, since the main problem with the deck is that it lacks consistency. However, even at 20000 legend, I can't manage to maintain a 1:1 win/loss ratio. Maybe it's just me, but I seem to have far more success with other decks than this one.
I'm also running more card draw (2x Novice Engineers to go along with the Loot Hoarders) and I'm also playing around 20/30k legend (EU), and the deck is performing very well for me, surprisingly so in fact (hence this thread).
Sure if you have all key pieces in the second half of the deck or you drew them in a horrible order, the deck bricks - it's normal. But it doesn't seem that inconsistent to me. Tracking finding the missing pieces is incredibly good for a combo deck. In fact, I'd say I have more issues with Hunting Party costing too much than with consistency finding the combo pieces. I've had a lot of games where I actually drew all my stuff and had enough damage in hand, but didn't have enough mana to make the play in a single turn, had to delay one turn, and lost because of that (either by allowing them to play a big taunt or them finding lethal). Another related small (but not so small) issue is that the combo doesn't work "on curve", you want to play Scrap Shot BEFORE Ramkaehn Wildtamer, which sometimes lead to weird early turns.
Give it another chance, the deck has a bit of a learning curve. It's not rocket science, but I was definitely losing a lot more in the beginning because of misplays.
My point is, you are comparing a Basic/Classic card Huffer (which still sees a lot of play and is over 5 years old) with Diving Gryphon, of course it needs to be worse. Unleash the Hounds is another card that is very old and still sees play in a lot of decks to finish off the opponent and I think this is limiting design space for new cards, the power level is just too high still. But that's just my opinion, you can have yours, all good.
And whats with that control player bias? I play all three archetypes and all 10 classes so can we please let this nonsense be and remain on the topic? Thanks. Also I never said Charge has to go entirely, only on those specific control cards.
Kayn Sunfury only has 3 Attack for a reason. And Dinotamer Brann is a Combo card as well, huge value, used in Big Beast Hunter. Blizzard is testing decks every expansion and I only say "this card is a combo or aggro or control card" since these cards were prbly used in that archetype when playtesting. Of course that doesn't mean you can't use it in a different archetype, but if you understand the Aggro beats Combo beats Control design behind the game you can definitely group cards into archetypes they are best used in. Espcecially if you analyze the game thoroughly and know why cards have a specific mana cost to curve well.
I really don't buy that whole "basic cards should be weaker" argument, why do they need to? Why would you nerf old cards that are barely keeping up with the current power level? So that Blizzard can sell more packs? And do you seriously believe Stonetusk Boar in itself is a problematic card? Scavenger and Scrap Shot won't be around forever.
And besides yes, c'mon, there has to be some consistency in card values. Even 5 years later a card like Diving Gryphon shouldn't be twice as good as a staple classic card of the same cost. What would be the point of keeping basic cards in the rotation then. Not to mention the nerf to Huffer being rush would also be particularly dumb because of the inherent RNG of Animal Companion.
And you absolutely did imply that charge had to go entirely, let's not turn the tables here. Also how is Dinotamer a combo card? You don't combo it with anything right now. It's played often on curve as a finisher or to pressure the opponent and that's it. And Highlander Hunter is basically a straightforward midrange deck. Veranus is an example of a combo card (needs another card to take advantage of his powerful effect), not Dinotamer.
Seriously, I don't argue with someone who 1) can't read what I wrote and 2) needs to become rude towards a complete stranger to strengthen their argument because anonymity is a great thing. Wow.
Basic cards are in the Standard rotation for Newcomers, so they can still rank up and learn the basic game mechanics. Here you have the reason. And yes, they want to sell new packs, what a surprise. And there is even an Interview where Blizzard is naming specificallyStonetusk Boar a problematic card in every expansion they released so far, let me search for the link...
Seriously, I don't argue with someone who 1) can't read what I wrote and 2) needs to become rude towards a complete stranger to strengthen their argument because anonymity is a great thing. Wow.
Basic cards are in the Standard rotation for Newcomers, so they can still rank up and learn the basic game mechanics. Here you have the reason. And yes, they want to sell new packs, what a surprise. And there is even an Interview where Blizzard is naming specificallyStonetusk Boar a problematic card in every expansion they released so far, let me search for the link...
So you say that I can't read and I'm the one being rude, ok sure I guess.
Where have I been rude? Because I'm calling your arguments bizarre when they're actually, well, frankly bizarre? Like calling Dinotamer a combo card, or insisting that Huffer should be nerfed to rush for absolutely no reason other than "let's nerf a basic card because it's basic and should be weaker"? Or trying to say Blizzard agrees with your opinions on the charge mechanic, while some cards they recently printed are clear evidence of the contrary? What are you trying to say here, that charge is fine as long as it's on a new card from the latest expansions? Your arguments don't make sense to me.
If you want to make the argument that Stonetusk Boar has some abusable combo potential like in this deck FINE, let's talk about it in specifics (and spoiler: I'll argue that a 5+ cards combo in a class with limited drawing capabilities and that can be stopped by timely taunts is completely fine), but those blanket statements about the charge mechanic and Huffer and UTH c'mon, they're frankly ridiculous.
And there are even more out there...it limits design space. Topsy Turvy Priest, Quest Rogue, just to name a few...they all used Stonetusk Boar. Dinotamer is a Midrange card, not Combo, my bad, but that's not the topic here. My argument was that Midrange/Combo is basically the same archetype, both are designed to counter Control.
And dude, seriously, where did I say that Charge has to go entirely? Quote me on that, because I can't find it. And no one will touch your little piggy friends, at least not in the near future I guess...
Kayn Sunfury is absolutely fine since DH has no way to buff minions other than with neutral cards.
So I have been tinkering with the deck since the first lists came out, thinking at first it was a fun meme deck but... it's performing. No seriously, I don't keep track of my games but I feel I'm doing better with it than with Highlander Hunter! And the meta right now seems about perfect for it:
- Druids seem dead (apparently thank to Rogues and their secret package), and in my experience it was by far the worst matchup for Boar Hunt, in both its Spell and Big archetypes, almost instaconcede in fact. No way for the Boar Hunt to deal with big untargettable taunts or wide boards with minions having more than 2 HPs. Or both (Exotic Mountseller + Ironbark bs).
- Coincidentally, Rogues are now everywhere and the matchup actually feels favored! Their early game is kinda slow and responsive and allows you to draw and build your combo. They're thriving on tempo swings, but they're not getting them against Boar Hunt. Plus the only taunt they run (Shield of Galakrond) is more than manageable. About the only time I lose badly against them is if they build a big Edwin or generate some lucky reborn taunt at the right time from Pharaoh Cat.
- I don't know if it's out of boredom or these new variants are performing better against the meta, but Priests are apparently dropping their Res package... which is great news for Combo Hunter. Any taunt-reborn and of course Convincing Infiltrator + Grave Rune were the bane of Combo Hunt. These new Priest decks are a breeze to deal with in comparison, you don't care if they have 60 heals in hand cause you're fully OTKing them. In fact I'd say it's another favorable matchup (as it should be with a combo deck countering a control deck). Speaking of controls, the matchup seems very favoured against Galalock too - bonus points for them Life Tapping into half-combos range sooner than they should, especially cause they often have no idea what the hell are you doing lol
- Matchup against DH is unfavorable of course, as any aggro should be against a combo deck, BUT. Tempo DH is actually about the best aggro matchup we could hope for. None of their early game minions has more then 2 HPs, meaning they're in Explosive Trap and Dwarven Sharpshooter + hero power range. UTH can still help on their boards. Aggro / Zoo-ish decks that build wider boards with >2 HPs minions, such as Totem Shaman or Murloc Pala, would be lot harder to deal with, but they're not nearly as popular.
Anyone else having similar experiences with this Hunter archetype?
Ah this is the deck that crushed my Spell Druid in 5 turns a couple of days ago. I was quite shocked as I wasn't aware of this deck at all. It went like this: turn 1 pass, turn 2 Scavenger's Ingenuity picking a Boar, turn 3 Coin + Scrap Shot, turn 4 Ramkahen Wildtamer + Tracking (picks up Eaglehorn Bow), turn 5 a secret +Eaglehorn Bow. At this moment I am down to 23 HP, but I have 7 Glowflies on the board and a Savage Roar in hand, however I assume he played Explosive Trap and therefore I don't have lethal. So I Wrath his minion and play Overgrowth feeling very confident with total board control and waiting to pick up a +1/+1 buffing card for lethal. Turn 6 comes a 7/7 Boar, another 7/7 Boar, Kill Command, 3 damage from his weapon and finally a 1/1 boar for exactly 23 damage and lethal.....I was speechless
Is your list the same as the hsreplay list? looks kind of interesting.
Only free on the weekends :(
It is true, combo boar hunter works unexpectedly well for me too!
I love tinkering around with my collection and I rarely rely on deck lists, and usually that leads me to decks that are of course not very viable (since I probably am overwhelmed with the task but it is fun nonetheless).
However, I‘ve recently built a deck revolving around the same combo we‘re talking about here, and I was surprised on how far it got me. I am now on Diamond 7 and that is further than I‘ve ever gotten with a self-tinkered deck!
Also, it is very funny to squish arrogant Priests with a Silence and four 11/11 boars (I‘m a wild player) :D
And just like fellow SirJohn13 up there, I believe this deck is not really common (I have never even encountered one mirror match since I started my climb) and it must be very impressive to encounter the full power of the working combo for the first time :P
I mean, people don‘t really expect boar OTKs these days ^^
I'm not sure about the exact hsreplay list, but I think everybody started from this one:
https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/decks/boar-hunter-akatsu-ashes-of-outland/
And made some changes. For example the other poster is mentioning Eaglehorn Bow, which I never seen played (and I myself don't run, maybe I should lol). Personally I almost immediately removed the 2 Infectious Sporelings, they just weren't working for me, their point was acting as a pseudo-silence for taunts (cause you can't play Owl, being a beast it messes with Scavenger's Ingenuity draw), but there's no way your opponent will let you hit what you want with those spores. I also removed the 2 Imprisoned Felmaws cause I didn't understand what was the point of their inclusion and I just never got value from them. Maybe I'm missing something here.
I added more card draw with 2x Novice Engineers to go along with the Loot Hoarders, Maiev (again as a pseudo silence) and 1 Ruststeed Raider (I felt like I needed a rush minion for surviving midgame but almost all the good rush ones are beasts!). Currently still experimenting.
It's a very cheap deck and looks like fun. I might give it a try next month:)
P.S.: HSReplay thinks that my opponent was probably running the following deck: 2x Arcane Shot, 2x Dwarven Sharpshooter, 2x Rapid Fire, 2x Stonetusk Boar, 2x Tracking, 2x Explosive Trap, 2x Flare, 2x Freezing Trap, 2x Scavenger's Ingenuity, 2x Deadly Shot, 2x Eaglehorn Bow, 2x Kill Command, 2x Ramkahen Wildtamer, 2x Scrap Shot, 2x Hunting Party
I am in D4 rank right now and it is full of Rogues, I guess that's why he picked Flare(+ the card draw)
Rogue has a slow start huh? Laughs in edwin 8/8 turn 4.
huh, and again the Charge mechanic is abused :D. This game...why they never changed Huffer, Stonetusk Boar and Unleash the Hounds to have Rush instead of Charge...I'll never understand it.
To be fair I did mention that lol. Also I'm pretty sure any Hunter has problems dealing with an early big Edwin regardless of the archetype, since he usually come along a bunch of lackeys so Deadly Shot / Rotnest can't reliably remove him.
But Edwin aside, trust me, it's not that uncommon for Rogue to hero power / pass even on turns 4 or 5 when all you're playing is Novice Engineers, Loot Hoarders and Scrap Shots to the face, cause they probably have some tempo play or mini combo that only makes sense to do with an opposite minion on board (ie Backstab + Evil Miscreant). That's what I meant by slow.
Why would they? Charge is fine in general. What wasn't fine was everybody and their mothers running Leeroy possibly with a mini combo for extra damage in basically every deck as a finisher. All those cards you mentioned would be trash if they were rush.
Also combo decks need to exist.
It’s a meme. According to this community, you need to be playing the tier 1 or 2 deck otherwise you are a meme player who is bad and should get a better deck. Don’t forget that’s been the mantra for years please get gud this is a game where fun shouldn’t be encouraged
Unleash the Hounds and Animal Companion never were combo cards in the first place. They are control cards and the Charge mechanic (which was mostly designed to have immediate board impact vs. aggro, in most cases. There are exceptions, e.g.Bluegill Warrior) is still a problem which they are slowly getting rid of (hence they HoFed Leeroy Jenkins). Also, using Basic cards (which are now over 5 years old) still in todays decks should ring an alarm bell.
There are in general three different Combo deck types in this game: either big minions (Ramp, Portal Warlock, Big beast Hunter) which make hard removals useless, Deathrattle Decks which make Board Clears useless or Weapon/Big Spells/Direct damage, anything that can bypass Taunts which make, again, Boards Clears useless.
It's a meme deck. I've been toying around with a version that runs a lot more card draw, since the main problem with the deck is that it lacks consistency. However, even at 20000 legend, I can't manage to maintain a 1:1 win/loss ratio. Maybe it's just me, but I seem to have far more success with other decks than this one.
www.twitch.tv/mistermath314
Check out some of my decks:
The combo and charge arguments were separate, of course I never meant to say UTH and Huffer were combo cards (although UTH actually was... back in the days when it costed 2 along with Buzzard / Timberwolf / Hyena).
Charge isn't a problem when it's on minions with stats that make sense for the cost. Huffer isn't a problem, so isn't UTH in its current iteration. Have you seen anyone recently calling for nerfs on Huffer and UTH? Who would play a 3-mana 4/2 rush, summoned by a spell nonetheless, so it can't even receive buffs from Scavenger and Scrap Shot? Compare to Diving Gryphon and tell me a rush-only Huffer wouldn't be garbage...
And btw Blizzard clearly disagrees with you seeing as they've just printed cards like Kayn Sunfury and less recently Dinotamer Brann. Again, it's Leeroy that was a problem, not the charge mechanic in general. The charge mechanic has already a counter to prevent it to be abused to go face, and it's called taunts. Which are in fact the #1 enemies of this deck. How is it fine that taunt exists as a mechanic (and get strongest every time with ridiculously good minions like Karthut, Bone Wraith or Convincing Infiltrator, just to name a few) but charge has to go? I smell control-player bias here...
Also your idea that combo cards are specifically only those who ramp multiple huge minions is pretty bizarre. That's certainly the case for Druid, or for some DH discounted plays, but that's not the definition of a combo card in general.
My point is, you are comparing a Basic/Classic card Huffer (which still sees a lot of play and is over 5 years old) with Diving Gryphon, of course it needs to be worse. Unleash the Hounds is another card that is very old and still sees play in a lot of decks to finish off the opponent and I think this is limiting design space for new cards, the power level is just too high still. But that's just my opinion, you can have yours, all good.
And whats with that control player bias? I play all three archetypes and all 10 classes so can we please let this nonsense be and remain on the topic? Thanks. Also I never said Charge has to go entirely, only on those specific control cards.
Kayn Sunfury only has 3 Attack for a reason. And Dinotamer Brann is a Combo card as well, huge value, used in Big Beast Hunter. Blizzard is testing decks every expansion and I only say "this card is a combo or aggro or control card" since these cards were prbly used in that archetype when playtesting. Of course that doesn't mean you can't use it in a different archetype, but if you understand the Aggro beats Combo beats Control design behind the game you can definitely group cards into archetypes they are best used in. Espcecially if you analyze the game thoroughly and know why cards have a specific mana cost to curve well.
Also I never said Combo cards exclusively are cards that help summoning big minions. There are direct damage Combo decks which almost have no minions at all so the opponent can't use board clears (Weapons/Big Spells) and Deathrattle decks as well.
I'm also running more card draw (2x Novice Engineers to go along with the Loot Hoarders) and I'm also playing around 20/30k legend (EU), and the deck is performing very well for me, surprisingly so in fact (hence this thread).
Sure if you have all key pieces in the second half of the deck or you drew them in a horrible order, the deck bricks - it's normal. But it doesn't seem that inconsistent to me. Tracking finding the missing pieces is incredibly good for a combo deck. In fact, I'd say I have more issues with Hunting Party costing too much than with consistency finding the combo pieces. I've had a lot of games where I actually drew all my stuff and had enough damage in hand, but didn't have enough mana to make the play in a single turn, had to delay one turn, and lost because of that (either by allowing them to play a big taunt or them finding lethal). Another related small (but not so small) issue is that the combo doesn't work "on curve", you want to play Scrap Shot BEFORE Ramkaehn Wildtamer, which sometimes lead to weird early turns.
Give it another chance, the deck has a bit of a learning curve. It's not rocket science, but I was definitely losing a lot more in the beginning because of misplays.
I really don't buy that whole "basic cards should be weaker" argument, why do they need to? Why would you nerf old cards that are barely keeping up with the current power level? So that Blizzard can sell more packs? And do you seriously believe Stonetusk Boar in itself is a problematic card? Scavenger and Scrap Shot won't be around forever.
And besides yes, c'mon, there has to be some consistency in card values. Even 5 years later a card like Diving Gryphon shouldn't be twice as good as a staple classic card of the same cost. What would be the point of keeping basic cards in the rotation then. Not to mention the nerf to Huffer being rush would also be particularly dumb because of the inherent RNG of Animal Companion.
And you absolutely did imply that charge had to go entirely, let's not turn the tables here. Also how is Dinotamer a combo card? You don't combo it with anything right now. It's played often on curve as a finisher or to pressure the opponent and that's it. And Highlander Hunter is basically a straightforward midrange deck. Veranus is an example of a combo card (needs another card to take advantage of his powerful effect), not Dinotamer.
Seriously, I don't argue with someone who 1) can't read what I wrote and 2) needs to become rude towards a complete stranger to strengthen their argument because anonymity is a great thing. Wow.
Basic cards are in the Standard rotation for Newcomers, so they can still rank up and learn the basic game mechanics. Here you have the reason. And yes, they want to sell new packs, what a surprise. And there is even an Interview where Blizzard is naming specifically Stonetusk Boar a problematic card in every expansion they released so far, let me search for the link...
So you say that I can't read and I'm the one being rude, ok sure I guess.
Where have I been rude? Because I'm calling your arguments bizarre when they're actually, well, frankly bizarre? Like calling Dinotamer a combo card, or insisting that Huffer should be nerfed to rush for absolutely no reason other than "let's nerf a basic card because it's basic and should be weaker"? Or trying to say Blizzard agrees with your opinions on the charge mechanic, while some cards they recently printed are clear evidence of the contrary? What are you trying to say here, that charge is fine as long as it's on a new card from the latest expansions? Your arguments don't make sense to me.
If you want to make the argument that Stonetusk Boar has some abusable combo potential like in this deck FINE, let's talk about it in specifics (and spoiler: I'll argue that a 5+ cards combo in a class with limited drawing capabilities and that can be stopped by timely taunts is completely fine), but those blanket statements about the charge mechanic and Huffer and UTH c'mon, they're frankly ridiculous.
Search for Stonetusk Boar: https://blizzardwatch.com/2017/07/19/recapping-ben-brodes-ama-alternate-heroes-problematic-cards-bens-rap-career/
and here: https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/bggw4s/chinese_interview_with_ben_thompson_and_dean/
And there are even more out there...it limits design space. Topsy Turvy Priest, Quest Rogue, just to name a few...they all used Stonetusk Boar. Dinotamer is a Midrange card, not Combo, my bad, but that's not the topic here. My argument was that Midrange/Combo is basically the same archetype, both are designed to counter Control.
And dude, seriously, where did I say that Charge has to go entirely? Quote me on that, because I can't find it. And no one will touch your little piggy friends, at least not in the near future I guess...
Kayn Sunfury is absolutely fine since DH has no way to buff minions other than with neutral cards.