Hearthpwn

I think the major issue is that you are balancing most of these cards at random. Some of these cards were already good cards, maybe not great cards, that make it into the best meta decks, but still good almost playable cards, and you dramatically changed them.

Pounce is already a very good card. 0 mana to deal 2 damage, even at the cost of potentially taking some  yourself is completely reasonable, making it go all the way to 3 is absurd. Spirit of the Raptor is also completely crazy, especially if you considering having 2 in play at the same time and Pounce. Its just sooooo easy to clear your opponents board and draw a bunch of cards. That card also isn't at all bad to begin with, its more that that specific Druid archtype isn't great. Making a very good card in a bad archtype completely broken isn't helping anything. Either the deck still isn't good, or the deck is completely unbeatable and takes over the meta.

The Spirit of the Lynx change is probably fine. That card isn't insane, and since its not a Beast itself its still not likely to see much play because it conflicts heavily with Master's Call. That said, making it 2 mana does improve its without breaking the game. Beast Within being +2/+2 for 1 mana is absurd. At that point its so good you'd just play it because its a 1 mana for 4 points of stats. I think that potentially making it a larger buff at a higher mana cost would be awesome.

The change to Spirit of the Dragonhawk doesn't make much sense thematically for the set, and it also doesn't really change the cards level of goodness. I also think in general this card is boardline playable, its just that Hero Power mage is kind of bad, there are just way better things to do. The Scorch change is also interesting, but still probably not good enough to make it playable. Again, elementals are just much weaker atm because Un'goro rotated out, though it does seem like a change that could make the card at least closer to playable along side a few more solid elementals, and it does make it feel a lot better to get off of Mana Cyclone.

I think changing A New Challenger is super boring. Yes, it makes the card very good, in fact, I'd say it makes the card very very good, to the point that it would probably be played in very paladin deck, but it would mostly still be about stupid RNG and the fact that missing would never be bad, but hitting the good targets would be very very strong. Most people don't like that sort of RNG in the long run. Weapons are by far the hardest things to mess with. If they get too efficient cost to damage ratios they just become must play sorts of cards. A 5 mana 4/3 Weapon is already very good. Its pretty much as good as a weapon can get, but you also get the upside of the overkill effect when you use it on a minion. That doesn't really fit Paladins style. However I think Bloodclaw would have been a much better target. You have so many options to change, including small tuning to the damage taken, that might actually make a bad card playable, instead of making a bad card really really good.

The change to Surrender to Madness is a bit too much. I think changing the destroyed crystals is fine, but also reducing the cost, allowing you to potentially only lose 1 mana crystal if you are going second, to get +2/+2 on your whole deck seems pretty busted. You change to Sand Drudge isn't complete, because you didn't mention the +1 health on the base unit, plus the insane summoning of 2/2 taunts. I do think making the base unit a 3/4 or even a 2/5 could be sweet, but changing the tokens in the way you chose is crazy. 1/1s and 2/2s are soooo different. I think you could maybe get away with buffing either attack or health on the tokens, but buffing both is way way too much.

Hypeman change is probably fine, since the card isn't overly playable as is, but that's mostly because cards that cost more than 5 are generally not played in rogue decks unless they win games. Even at 6 mana its not that likely to see play. The Stolen Steel change seems worthless because even if you lower its cost, rogue already has plenty of its own weapons it wants to play. Its just a bad card to change. I'd much rather see Bloodsail Howler buffed slightly, like +1 attack or +1 health.

Doubling Wartbringer is interesting, but I wonder why you decided it needed to be doubled and not just increased by 1 point? Dealing 4 damage for 1 mana is pretty damn good, even if its conditional. Zentimo change is very very hard to judge, and I'd much rather see a bump to health than a decrease in mana. Zentimo is very very good, and being able to make his biggest combo plays easier makes him even crazier. Giving him a higher potential to stick around after a combo turn seems like a more balanced pay off than lowering the cost. 

I think knocking 2 mana off Demonbolt is bad. Having just 1 minion makes it Assassinate. Having 2 is a non-conditional Walk the Plank. So its almost always just better than Siphon Soul, even if you're a control deck, and playing it in Aggro means you can likely get a 0-3 mana kill spell, which is insane. I think you could knock off 1 mana maybe, so you could actually cast it for free on certain occasions, but I think 6 is too low. Spirit of the Bat buffing everything is crazy scary. I'd like to point out, in blizzards first round of "buffs" they never actually changed a cards functionality, only its cost or stats to make it more playable, so I think dynamically changing a card is beyond the scope of what they could do.

The Overlords whip change kind of seems awful, and again, against the style of changes we've seen. Its true the card is bad, but I'm not sure anything could ever fix it, because of how its designed to work. The Sul'thraze change is really nuts, because it makes the weapon deal 20 total damage. Its literally 2 more durability over Arcanite Reaper, for 1 mana, plus an ability, and Arcanite Reaper has seen a fair amount of play. Also, you changed 2 weapons for the same class, which seems like a weird decision. Heavy Metal was clearly there to tweak, so IDK why not change it instead of both weapons.

Your custom card is just weird. It has a multiturn stealth, and more or less functions as a crazy anti-stabalization card for aggro against everything, because once you get ahead in Health, your opponent is screwed. They can't kill your stuff of they die, and they can't leave your stuff on the board of they die. That's not a fun or interactive card, its just, oh, this board state is happening, you lose now!

If you want to change cards or create new cards, its important to have perspective. Not just perception of a cards worth or current meta value, but its actual quality and how it compares to other cards. I'm sure to a point this was tough, because there are a lot more playable/borderline cards in RR, so there aren't as many stand out choices.

 BTW, I voted, Sorry, Its Bad. I don't think its terrible, trying at all is worth something, but that said I do think in general you didn't have enough total knowledge and perspective of design and balance with your changes, and instead just did what you thought would be fun/cool/dynamic and potentially shake things up. Not all of blizzards changes were made to specifically make a card or class much stronger. Most of them in fact likely won't impact the meta all that much, but they made them anyway. Changes don't have to make cards build around cards. Don't give up, just learn to apply more knowledge to your concepts.

Quote from iWatchUSleep >>

Quote from The_Odinson >>

 You know, that most big priest decks run all sorts of AoE cards, stuff like Spirit Lash, Excavated Evil, Lightbomb and Holy Nova? Cards that completely wipe your board and heal the opponent if you don't kill their 2/6.  I'm not saying it always the best card against every deck, but its a pretty solid new addition to a the deck that isn't bad to draw early and has powerful interactions with most of the spells the deck already plays. The card isn't what you're trying to hit off Barnes or Shadow Essence, though hitting it off Essence is kind of the nuts, because it then summons something else instantly. Its a minion you can play early that your opponent has to respect. Something the deck was previously lacking. Its a 4 cost card that has impact, and not another 8-10 cost card you desperately don't want to draw early. I think that's a pretty powerful new addition. IDK how much experience you have playing against the card, you seem to have a lot from the way you are talking. I'd love to see some replays of you beating some Big Priest decks that had early Vargoth that you just ignored.

 The only reasonable scenario you managed to paint is with spirit lash. 

Tell me what lightbomb and excavated evil do against empty boards? Because that's how they work in combination with Vargoth. 

What big priests do -you- encounter that run holy nova even? Got any replays of that perhaps? 

 I thought you were on the side of aggro decks? Are you saying you're on the side of other control decks against this card?? Because I'm pretty sure this plus rez effects and Mind Blast beats almost all the control/midrange decks pretty handily. If you're talking about mirrors matches, IDK. I don't play with Big Priest only against it, and I can say I've seen this card get out of hand super fast. The big thing about this card is you can play it on 4, and then once it dies, if that's because your opponent killed it, or because you played Mass Hysteria or Excavated Evil, then you can start rez'ing this in multiples and snowballing the effect with cards like Shadow Visions, Shadow Essence and Mind Blast. And again, I'm not saying the card is the best card ever, but you're acting like a proactive 4 drop in a combo/control deck isn't a good addition. As if the effect is so unimportant that it doesn't matter and you can win past it. I'm pretty sure all the best/most played Priest spells have a pretty good synergy with this card, and even cards that aren't that commonly played any more but used to be staples like Holy Nova and Entomb, get way better with this card. You want to tell me my points aren't that valid, but you also have only made one argument, that you think the card is less impactful than all the existing cards. I think that's incorrect, and I've given plenty of examples as to why I feel that way. All you have said to me is that isn't enough. If you want to have a discussion there needs to be more to it than you just saying "nah, not good enough". I've seen the card in action, and I think its pretty good. Have you actually seen the card be bad or are you just trolling? 

I think a part of it is basic human nature. That isn't to say that I think people in general are bad. In fact I think people in general, in person, are good. However, HS is a competitive game. That means it draws in a certain type of person. I played Magic for years, and even when playing with close friends tempers could become elevated because there is a level of competition involved. The community as a whole was always great. I met a ton of really nice people and for the most part everyone was friendly. During games, especially tournaments though, there was always that underlying desire to win, and RNG also plays a huge role there. Your opponent gets "lucky" or you get "unlucky". The game has skill, but how much of it is more about the uncontrollable elements? You throw in the current general social status today and things get even more wild. The idea of celebrity has changed. Reality TV that isn't at all realistic. Internet celebrity that generally rewards obnoxious, rude or even mean behavior is everywhere. Sportsmanship and humility are dying out. Its not about being friendly, kind or respectful. Its about "Beating up noobs, BRO!". Almost all of the biggest streamers BM, which means Bad Manners. I try to add everyone I lose a game to and then be cool/nice to them. Almost everyone is like, "I can't believe you didn't flame me!". That is what the community expects. Rampant aggressive behavior, and they still accept friend requests. If people had to really sit down across from each other and play I can bet the grand majority of those ragers wouldn't ever act like that in person/public. I mean look at the live tournaments? Even when people lose to absurd RNG they don't rage out of control. Because you can't act like that. But hidden behind your screen you can do whatever you want. The only way to make a positive change is to be positive. I want to rage everyone I lose to that I add, but I don't. I try to build toward the community I had in a game I can't afford to play anymore. 

Quote from iWatchUSleep >>

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Quote from ManThighs >>

This card will see 0 play in Res Priest. It's just not better then Rag or Shaarj or Statue. 

 because you are noob man. It is already played withBarnes Rag or Shaarj or Statue.

 Great! Free wins for me against those scrubs then. A 2/6 without taunt is a lot easier for me to deal with than 4/8s and 8/8s with taunt. 

 You know, that most big priest decks run all sorts of AoE cards, stuff like Spirit Lash, Excavated Evil, Lightbomb and Holy Nova? Cards that completely wipe your board and heal the opponent if you don't kill their 2/6.  I'm not saying it always the best card against every deck, but its a pretty solid new addition to a the deck that isn't bad to draw early and has powerful interactions with most of the spells the deck already plays. The card isn't what you're trying to hit off Barnes or Shadow Essence, though hitting it off Essence is kind of the nuts, because it then summons something else instantly. Its a minion you can play early that your opponent has to respect. Something the deck was previously lacking. Its a 4 cost card that has impact, and not another 8-10 cost card you desperately don't want to draw early. I think that's a pretty powerful new addition. IDK how much experience you have playing against the card, you seem to have a lot from the way you are talking. I'd love to see some replays of you beating some Big Priest decks that had early Vargoth that you just ignored.

Thanks. Yeah, I've written up a bit of a guide as well. Discussing card choices and such. I really like the idea of this brawl and its been a very fun one. The ban is super interesting.

I've had huge success with

I think to a point there is a larger discussion to have about what Hearthstone is. The game is generally speaking a bit of Rock/Paper/Scissors, and a bit of Yahtzee. Match ups make up the Rock/Paper/Scissor part. Every deck has good and bad match ups, and to a point you can shift your deck around to help, but generally speaking even then you are either favored or not going into a match up. The next portion is the RNG. This is where the Yahtzee side comes in. You take turns back and forth rolling dice. You can make strategic decisions based on how you roll, maybe you'll use those three 5's you just rolled for you 5's total, maybe its better as your 3 of a kind total. This is where you get a chance to play your cards and try to play them optimally. However, sometimes the dice just don't roll in your favor and you lose. Either way, the biggest down side to HS at the moment is how frustrating most of the losses feel. Combo decks are everywhere, even if they are weaker than the Aggro decks, simply because people like playing them more. However, the majority of Combo mirrors or Combo vs Control match ups are all about how quickly/efficiently the winner gets to their combo. All the cards in between don't really matter and so most of what you spend the game doing doesn't matter that much. Yes it matters somewhat, but most of the current decks don't really give their opponent much counter play, and they generally win the game nearly on the spot. This means that you do generally get to feel pretty good when you win, but you almost never get to feel good when you lose. This leads to winrate pretty much defining everyone's "fun". Its true that you can see some streamers and players playing wacky decks that they are clearly just playing for fun, but generally because HS doesn't have a massive amount of interaction beyond what is in play, and only on your turn 99% of the time.

I wouldn't say its the worst bundle ever. Its timed intentionally to milk the last bits of value out of a set before it rotates. Its clever marketing, even if its a bummer for people that would have loved to see it a year ago or whatever. Its still a good value, especially if you're missing a few key cards.

 By far the biggest issue with this Tavern Brawl is in the fact that not only are Deathknights not created equally, the disparity in the value of the hero powers is absurd. Jaina comes in as easily one of most powerful, with Gul'dan and Rexxar filling out the pack of playable heroes, but only in so much as they create a very loose triangle. Gul'dan can do very well against Jaina based on how the draws go, with the Hero power being very very strong in its direct sense. Rexxar can generate amazing value, but struggles with potential tempo issues in the early stages. 

Warrior and Shaman are clearly almost all but unplayable. Let's be honest, the Battlecry portion of both of these cards is what makes them playable at all. While Paladin, Rogue, Priest and Druid have some potential their powers still fall rather short in terms of the raw tempo or raw value that can be generated by the big 3. These decks being full of random cards rather than preconstructed decks meant to leverage the potential hero powers also makes it even harder for these less impactful classes to have any chance of seeing much play. There are just some major issues that could have easily been solved by making the decks instead of making them random. Allowing you to weaken the stronger DKs with somewhat weaker or at least less synergistic decks. I played about 15 Brawls just to test all the different classes out and I was so horribly disappointed in the balance. 

So, you believe this one card and its access to 18 decks is enough to draw in and build up all the new players to this game? That its even a good idea to potentially rush to crafting this one card, just so you can have access to a larger variety of bad-almost top tier decks as a new player? I think this card is really cool, and definitely a fun thing, but I don't think its good for new players. I don't think it helps them learn anything well and I think to a point its a trap because many people do see it as something good for new players, or something a new player might be attracted to. However I don't think its going to provide them with a great experience. Being bad at the game and having a bunch of "real" decks but still losing isn't going to make you feel that much better about yourself or your skill level. Getting lucky and getting the better end of the decks and winning a few games based off of that and thinking you're getting better at the game or increasing your skill when you're really not, and instead just riding a variance high also isn't that helpful. There are plenty of decent budget options for decks, and in fact, even many people with larger collections are still playing those mindless cheap to build, relatively easy to play aggro decks. Yes, brand new players with starter decks aren't going to have tons of fun, but I think dusting everything to make trick yourself into making this one card because it "opens" up the game isn't realistic. For most f2p players that have a hard time building past 1-3 full decklists this sort of card is awesome. That is who this card is really for.