Incanters flow is not an issue, just get rid of Lunacy full stop and change refreshing spring water to 1 mana for each spell.
Seriously? If you play it on turn 2 you chat 26 Mana with 1 card.
A 4-4 and +20+20 or more stats in a single card:
Even worse:
Incanter's Flow and Refreshing Spring Water are the 2 best cards in no minion mage, and the 2 of them is what holds any spell mage deck together. Nerf one of them, and the archetype falls apart, take your pick.
Incanters flow is not an issue, just get rid of Lunacy full stop and change refreshing spring water to 1 mana for each spell.
Seriously? If you play it on turn 2 you chat 26 Mana with 1 card.
A 4-4 and +20+20 or more stats in a single card:
Even worse:
Incanter's Flow and Refreshing Spring Water are the 2 best cards in no minion mage, and the 2 of them is what holds any spell mage deck together. Nerf one of them, and the archetype falls apart, take your pick.
I'm not sure what is your point with these examples. Mistcaller and Embiggen cheat stats, not mana. Also, miscaller cost 6 mana and has shit stats and is a legendary card, and embiggen is a spell in a minion-driven deck that actually gives mana to your opponent, they have drawbacks, there is a real cost to playing these cards.
Talking about Keleseth would have been more honest too. It clearly shows that buffing your deck at 6 mana is fine, but at 2 mana is very overwhelming.
Also, -1 mana is much, much more valuable than +1/+1 or +2/+2 stats.
Incanter's Flow is by far the strongest and easiest to build around of all cards that impact the deck (even stronger than pre-nerf Lunacy that was only good due to the small card pool) and I think it sets a bad precedent for the game. 2 mana, cheat 26 mana, common, no drawback. How is this fair to the other cards ? Take Primordial Glyph for example. For the same cost, you cheat 2 mana instead of 26, and you get to discover 1 spell.
Incanters flow is not an issue, just get rid of Lunacy full stop and change refreshing spring water to 1 mana for each spell.
Seriously? If you play it on turn 2 you chat 26 Mana with 1 card.
A 4-4 and +20+20 or more stats in a single card:
Even worse:
Incanter's Flow and Refreshing Spring Water are the 2 best cards in no minion mage, and the 2 of them is what holds any spell mage deck together. Nerf one of them, and the archetype falls apart, take your pick.
I'm not sure what is your point with these examples. Mistcaller and Embiggen cheat stats, not mana. Also, miscaller cost 6 mana and has shit stats and is a legendary card, and embiggen is a spell in a minion-driven deck that actually gives mana to your opponent, they have drawbacks, there is a real cost to playing these cards.
Talking about Keleseth would have been more honest too. It clearly shows that buffing your deck at 6 mana is fine, but at 2 mana is very overwhelming.
Also, -1 mana is much, much more valuable than +1/+1 or +2/+2 stats.
Incanter's Flow is by far the strongest and easiest to build around of all cards that impact the deck (even stronger than pre-nerf Lunacy that was only good due to the small card pool) and I think it sets a bad precedent for the game. 2 mana, cheat 26 mana, common, no drawback. How is this fair to the other cards ? Take Primordial Glyph for example. For the same cost, you cheat 2 mana instead of 26, and you get to discover 1 spell.
My point was that it is pointless to say you "cheat 26 mana" if the cards are still in your deck, just as they are with the stat-buffs. This is why the synergy between the 2 mage cards is so important, and I don't think one would be strong without the other.
"Do nothing to reclaim value later" cards have always been a core concept in hearthstone, just look at Wild Growth and the quests.
regardless of what is happening it will be a ton of dust for me again (sitting at 100k) coz i got pretty much all op cards in gold even tickatus and most of them dups as well
Incanters flow is not an issue, just get rid of Lunacy full stop and change refreshing spring water to 1 mana for each spell.
Seriously? If you play it on turn 2 you chat 26 Mana with 1 card.
A 4-4 and +20+20 or more stats in a single card:
Even worse:
Incanter's Flow and Refreshing Spring Water are the 2 best cards in no minion mage, and the 2 of them is what holds any spell mage deck together. Nerf one of them, and the archetype falls apart, take your pick.
I'm not sure what is your point with these examples. Mistcaller and Embiggen cheat stats, not mana. Also, miscaller cost 6 mana and has shit stats and is a legendary card, and embiggen is a spell in a minion-driven deck that actually gives mana to your opponent, they have drawbacks, there is a real cost to playing these cards.
Talking about Keleseth would have been more honest too. It clearly shows that buffing your deck at 6 mana is fine, but at 2 mana is very overwhelming.
Also, -1 mana is much, much more valuable than +1/+1 or +2/+2 stats.
Incanter's Flow is by far the strongest and easiest to build around of all cards that impact the deck (even stronger than pre-nerf Lunacy that was only good due to the small card pool) and I think it sets a bad precedent for the game. 2 mana, cheat 26 mana, common, no drawback. How is this fair to the other cards ? Take Primordial Glyph for example. For the same cost, you cheat 2 mana instead of 26, and you get to discover 1 spell.
My point was that it is pointless to say you "cheat 26 mana" if the cards are still in your deck, just as they are with the stat-buffs. This is why the synergy between the 2 mage cards is so important, and I don't think one would be strong without the other.
"Do nothing to reclaim value later" cards have always been a core concept in hearthstone, just look at Wild Growth and the quests.
Wild growth has been nerfed for a reason, and it only cheated 1 mana per turn for up to 7 turns. At 2 mana it was too oppressive, too much mana cheat too early in the game. Several quests have been nerfed as well. It's not a coincidence, not only are these cards more powerful than your average card, they also end up being central pieces of many decks because of their massive synergy for very little cost with the other cards in the deck.
By the way this is a little off topic but I believe that legendary quest cards should no longer be guaranteed in the starting hand. I mean why would such powerful cards have the privilege anyway ? It kinda made sense at the time, but it no longer does imo, yes they do nothing and require set up, so what, most win conditions do nowadays. Imagine the community outrage if Keleseth or Incanter's flow always was in your starting hand lol.
How about Luna's Pocket Galaxy, another "do nothing" mana cheating card that impacts your whole deck, this time minions. Buffed to 5 mana, then immediately nerfed again to 7 after it broke the game.
"card is pointless if it still in your deck" applies to basically 100% of cards I don't think this is particularly relevant. Unless Flow is in the bottom 5 cards of your deck, it will have a bigger impact that most 2 mana cards in the game.
I understand your opinion about the combination of Flow + RSW, but I disagree, RSW made flow better, but it was already very good, mage didn't wait RSW to start drawing cards, Blizzard's abuse of mage card draw has been a thing for a while now, it started with the legendary weapon in Kobolds expansion, maybe even earlier than that. And Flow, exactly like Sorcerer's apprentice, will always be a core piece of many pre-existing or new mage decks in Wild because it has such a huge impact on all/most of your other cards, that I can't ever be replaced by another card. Unless they unnerf Pocket Galaxy I guess, then either Pocket Galaxy or Flow+Apprentice will be in all mage decks.
When did Sorcerer's Apprentice become a real problem ? Only when mage started to draw their whole deck. Then sorcerer's apprentice power level basically went from a tiny Emperor Thaurissan to a glorified Incanter's Flow.
It's always the same story : Card cheats too much mana for its cost -> Card goes in every deck -> Card gets nerfed -> more powerful mana cheating card gets printed -> repeat.
Refreshing Spring Water - to 5 mana actually makes a lot of sense to me. Or 2 mana IF you draw ANY spells.
Libram of Hope - 8 mana 5/8. This card does not need to be aggressively stated as it is. Conviction might be more likely.
Incanter's Flow to 3 makes sense I guess. I'm not sure if this is what needs hit. It's a very strong card if you draw it early in a specific deck.
The 1/4 murloc becoming a 1/3 makes a lot of sense. Second half of Mankrik too. I hope they don't nerf Alexstrasza. Partly because it's a free card, partly because it's not something I think needs a nerf.
I want Hysteria, Devolving Missiles and Cascading Disaster nerfed just to help diversify the game a bit, but I doubt they're hitting any of those.
Buffs I'm hoping for:
Neeru. The portal could use a small buff. Either spawning less imps at the end of EVERY turn. Or maybe have the portal provide +1 attack in addition to it's other effects.
I'm not sure what else they can or should buff. I'm guessing maybe the caravans, just because there's so many buffs.
One Tickatus isn’t an issue. What I find frustrating is when he is played for 2nd or third time while also clearing my whole board and healing to full health for the 3rd time. Believe its not Tickatus that should be touched but maybe make ysaarj make these cards cost 1 and not 0. Or at least that’s my feeling about control lock
Alot of the mage spells should not be able to hit face, they have sooooo much access to burn it's unbelievable, the discover mechanic really favours them for dmg spells. Keep some spells hitting face, like fireball, the 2 dmg discover a spell one, but apexis blast and mask of c'thun should be restricted to minions.
Also, in any class, spells (even so far as minions) should never cost 0. Period. I've benefited from it myself countless times, but enough is enough, minions and spells should always have a hard cost associated with them, being 1.
Alot of the mage spells should not be able to hit face, they have sooooo much access to burn it's unbelievable, the discover mechanic really favours them for dmg spells. Keep some spells hitting face, like fireball, the 2 dmg discover a spell one, but apexis blast and mask of c'thun should be restricted to minions.
Also, in any class, spells (even so far as minions) should never cost 0. Period. I've benefited from it myself countless times, but enough is enough, minions and spells should always have a hard cost associated with them, being 1.
So pally Liam should not cost 0 to but they do haven’t been nerfed yet
Hysteria getting bumped to 4 mana seems to make plenty of sense. For the longest time I thought this card was perfectly acceptable but 3 mana for (mostly) consistent board clears is way too cheap and reliable.
The nerfs go live in a few hours at the same time balance patch goes live. You will see what gets nerfed and buffed in the patch notes. I made the above predictions a few days ago and still stand behind them now. Tickatus will be the most important nerf and must happen if control is to be viable. Blizz will probably buff shaman's and warrior's control tools but this will be for nothing unless Tickatus is nerfed too.
What happens if cards in my Battle-Ready Deck are nerfed?
We always do our best to plan around potential balance changes. As such, we’re not expecting to nerf any of the cards offered in Battle-Ready Decks at this time, but we will extend the usual full dust refund to any eligible impacted cards if it happens.
Shadowed Souls - Warlock
Keep control of the board with a plethora of removal tools and then turn the tides of battle with the EREDAR LORD OF THE BURNING LEGION himself. Contains 30 Cards total, 21 disenchantable: 4 Legendary, 2 Epic, 8 Rare, 7 Common.
What happens if cards in my Battle-Ready Deck are nerfed?
We always do our best to plan around potential balance changes. As such, we’re not expecting to nerf any of the cards offered in Battle-Ready Decks at this time, but we will extend the usual full dust refund to any eligible impacted cards if it happens.
Shadowed Souls - Warlock
Keep control of the board with a plethora of removal tools and then turn the tides of battle with the EREDAR LORD OF THE BURNING LEGION himself. Contains 30 Cards total, 21 disenchantable: 4 Legendary, 2 Epic, 8 Rare, 7 Common.
Blizzard Entertainment <time class="publish-date">04 /28 / 2021</time>
:D
That's a blank statement promising no nerfs to the battle ready decks but taking no liability if they do happen. Why do you think, for the first time ever, nobody knows the nerfs until the patch arrives? The Paladin ready deck has 2 Crabriders in it. And we know that a neutral murloc is getting nerfed. You think they're nerfing Prize Vendor instead? Either Oh My Yogg! or Hand of A'dal might also get the nerf, they're also present in the list. Mankrik is also in a good portion of those decks. I know we got it for free, but if it happens to get nerfed (and it looks like one of the more problematic Neutrals), maybe some of those decks will be impacted negatively. So if anything, this statement and behaviour from Blizz makes them sus.
What happens if cards in my Battle-Ready Deck are nerfed?
We always do our best to plan around potential balance changes. As such, we’re not expecting to nerf any of the cards offered in Battle-Ready Decks at this time, but we will extend the usual full dust refund to any eligible impacted cards if it happens.
Shadowed Souls - Warlock
Keep control of the board with a plethora of removal tools and then turn the tides of battle with the EREDAR LORD OF THE BURNING LEGION himself. Contains 30 Cards total, 21 disenchantable: 4 Legendary, 2 Epic, 8 Rare, 7 Common.
Blizzard Entertainment <time class="publish-date">04 /28 / 2021</time>
:D
That's a blank statement promising no nerfs to the battle ready decks but taking no liability if they do happen. Why do you think, for the first time ever, nobody knows the nerfs until the patch arrives? The Paladin ready deck has 2 Crabriders in it. And we know that a neutral murloc is getting nerfed. You think they're nerfing Prize Vendor instead? Either Oh My Yogg! or Hand of A'dal might also get the nerf, they're also present in the list. Mankrik is also in a good portion of those decks. I know we got it for free, but if it happens to get nerfed (and it looks like one of the more problematic Neutrals), maybe some of those decks will be impacted negatively. So if anything, this statement and behaviour from Blizz makes them sus.
My god, I'm so stupid. This entire time I have been trying to figure out why they have been so coy about nerf/buff targets and I knew it wasn't because of some benevolent 'surprise' factor but I couldn't figure out the angle.
The answer was right in front of my face the entire time; "what is different about this situation than every other balance change?...premade packs for purchase!".
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My predictions will be:
Crabrider 2 mana 1/3
Incanter's Flow 3 mana
Mankrik 3 mana 3-3 or the token reduced to 3-8
Tickatus ??? but a big part of the community (including me) think the mechanic is unhealthy for the meta. He is not to strong tho.
Oh My Yogg! The same effect, but put the spell in the owners hand and refresh mana for the spell. Still pretty strong for 1 mana.
A 4-4 and +20+20 or more stats in a single card:
Even worse:
Incanter's Flow and Refreshing Spring Water are the 2 best cards in no minion mage, and the 2 of them is what holds any spell mage deck together. Nerf one of them, and the archetype falls apart, take your pick.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
I'm not sure what is your point with these examples. Mistcaller and Embiggen cheat stats, not mana. Also, miscaller cost 6 mana and has shit stats and is a legendary card, and embiggen is a spell in a minion-driven deck that actually gives mana to your opponent, they have drawbacks, there is a real cost to playing these cards.
Talking about Keleseth would have been more honest too. It clearly shows that buffing your deck at 6 mana is fine, but at 2 mana is very overwhelming.
Also, -1 mana is much, much more valuable than +1/+1 or +2/+2 stats.
Incanter's Flow is by far the strongest and easiest to build around of all cards that impact the deck (even stronger than pre-nerf Lunacy that was only good due to the small card pool) and I think it sets a bad precedent for the game. 2 mana, cheat 26 mana, common, no drawback. How is this fair to the other cards ? Take Primordial Glyph for example. For the same cost, you cheat 2 mana instead of 26, and you get to discover 1 spell.
Make it a 6 mana 4/4 minion like The Mistcaller and people won't complain about Incanter's Flow trust me.
My point was that it is pointless to say you "cheat 26 mana" if the cards are still in your deck, just as they are with the stat-buffs. This is why the synergy between the 2 mage cards is so important, and I don't think one would be strong without the other.
"Do nothing to reclaim value later" cards have always been a core concept in hearthstone, just look at Wild Growth and the quests.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
I think Secret passage should get nerfed too.
regardless of what is happening it will be a ton of dust for me again (sitting at 100k) coz i got pretty much all op cards in gold even tickatus and most of them dups as well
so nerf it all blizzard ! nerf it all !
Wild growth has been nerfed for a reason, and it only cheated 1 mana per turn for up to 7 turns. At 2 mana it was too oppressive, too much mana cheat too early in the game. Several quests have been nerfed as well. It's not a coincidence, not only are these cards more powerful than your average card, they also end up being central pieces of many decks because of their massive synergy for very little cost with the other cards in the deck.
By the way this is a little off topic but I believe that legendary quest cards should no longer be guaranteed in the starting hand. I mean why would such powerful cards have the privilege anyway ? It kinda made sense at the time, but it no longer does imo, yes they do nothing and require set up, so what, most win conditions do nowadays. Imagine the community outrage if Keleseth or Incanter's flow always was in your starting hand lol.
How about Luna's Pocket Galaxy, another "do nothing" mana cheating card that impacts your whole deck, this time minions. Buffed to 5 mana, then immediately nerfed again to 7 after it broke the game.
"card is pointless if it still in your deck" applies to basically 100% of cards I don't think this is particularly relevant. Unless Flow is in the bottom 5 cards of your deck, it will have a bigger impact that most 2 mana cards in the game.
I understand your opinion about the combination of Flow + RSW, but I disagree, RSW made flow better, but it was already very good, mage didn't wait RSW to start drawing cards, Blizzard's abuse of mage card draw has been a thing for a while now, it started with the legendary weapon in Kobolds expansion, maybe even earlier than that. And Flow, exactly like Sorcerer's apprentice, will always be a core piece of many pre-existing or new mage decks in Wild because it has such a huge impact on all/most of your other cards, that I can't ever be replaced by another card. Unless they unnerf Pocket Galaxy I guess, then either Pocket Galaxy or Flow+Apprentice will be in all mage decks.
When did Sorcerer's Apprentice become a real problem ? Only when mage started to draw their whole deck. Then sorcerer's apprentice power level basically went from a tiny Emperor Thaurissan to a glorified Incanter's Flow.
It's always the same story : Card cheats too much mana for its cost -> Card goes in every deck -> Card gets nerfed -> more powerful mana cheating card gets printed -> repeat.
Nerfs I wanna see:
Refreshing Spring Water - to 5 mana actually makes a lot of sense to me. Or 2 mana IF you draw ANY spells.
Libram of Hope - 8 mana 5/8. This card does not need to be aggressively stated as it is. Conviction might be more likely.
Incanter's Flow to 3 makes sense I guess. I'm not sure if this is what needs hit. It's a very strong card if you draw it early in a specific deck.
The 1/4 murloc becoming a 1/3 makes a lot of sense.
Second half of Mankrik too. I hope they don't nerf Alexstrasza. Partly because it's a free card, partly because it's not something I think needs a nerf.
I want Hysteria, Devolving Missiles and Cascading Disaster nerfed just to help diversify the game a bit, but I doubt they're hitting any of those.
Buffs I'm hoping for:
Neeru. The portal could use a small buff. Either spawning less imps at the end of EVERY turn. Or maybe have the portal provide +1 attack in addition to it's other effects.
I'm not sure what else they can or should buff. I'm guessing maybe the caravans, just because there's so many buffs.
One Tickatus isn’t an issue. What I find frustrating is when he is played for 2nd or third time while also clearing my whole board and healing to full health for the 3rd time. Believe its not Tickatus that should be touched but maybe make ysaarj make these cards cost 1 and not 0. Or at least that’s my feeling about control lock
Alot of the mage spells should not be able to hit face, they have sooooo much access to burn it's unbelievable, the discover mechanic really favours them for dmg spells. Keep some spells hitting face, like fireball, the 2 dmg discover a spell one, but apexis blast and mask of c'thun should be restricted to minions.
Also, in any class, spells (even so far as minions) should never cost 0. Period. I've benefited from it myself countless times, but enough is enough, minions and spells should always have a hard cost associated with them, being 1.
It was nerfed already stfu
So pally Liam should not cost 0 to but they do haven’t been nerfed yet
Librams should be deleted fwiw. But yes, they are such a powerful card, they should cost more than 2 base. Ridiculous value.
As many nerfs to mage as possible. The RNG BS they do every game is enough to make you stop playing.
Hysteria getting bumped to 4 mana seems to make plenty of sense. For the longest time I thought this card was perfectly acceptable but 3 mana for (mostly) consistent board clears is way too cheap and reliable.
Tickatus burns 3 cards, down from 5
Crabrider 3 health down from 4
Mankrik 3 health down from 4
Conviction cost increased to 2 mana
Incanter's Flow cost increased to 3 mana
The nerfs go live in a few hours at the same time balance patch goes live. You will see what gets nerfed and buffed in the patch notes. I made the above predictions a few days ago and still stand behind them now. Tickatus will be the most important nerf and must happen if control is to be viable. Blizz will probably buff shaman's and warrior's control tools but this will be for nothing unless Tickatus is nerfed too.
For those saying tickatus
Shadowed Souls - Warlock
Keep control of the board with a plethora of removal tools and then turn the tides of battle with the EREDAR LORD OF THE BURNING LEGION himself. Contains 30 Cards total, 21 disenchantable: 4 Legendary, 2 Epic, 8 Rare, 7 Common.
Deck Code:
<mark>AAECAf0GCM/SA/zeA87hA5boA/LtA6iKBLCKBIWgBAusywPM0gPN0gPG3gPm4QP14wP44wOS5AOCoASDoATnoAQA</mark>
That's a blank statement promising no nerfs to the battle ready decks but taking no liability if they do happen. Why do you think, for the first time ever, nobody knows the nerfs until the patch arrives? The Paladin ready deck has 2 Crabriders in it. And we know that a neutral murloc is getting nerfed. You think they're nerfing Prize Vendor instead? Either Oh My Yogg! or Hand of A'dal might also get the nerf, they're also present in the list. Mankrik is also in a good portion of those decks. I know we got it for free, but if it happens to get nerfed (and it looks like one of the more problematic Neutrals), maybe some of those decks will be impacted negatively. So if anything, this statement and behaviour from Blizz makes them sus.
Let the dust flow, i hope for a nice score today
My god, I'm so stupid. This entire time I have been trying to figure out why they have been so coy about nerf/buff targets and I knew it wasn't because of some benevolent 'surprise' factor but I couldn't figure out the angle.
The answer was right in front of my face the entire time; "what is different about this situation than every other balance change?...premade packs for purchase!".