The meta right now is Face Hunter, Evolve Shaman, Aggro Demon Hunter (is there another kind?), Totem Shaman, "Enhancement" (Face) Shaman, "Soul" Demon Hunter (uh, be real and just call it Face DH), Highlander Hunter, Silver Hand Paladin (board flood).....and Pure Paladin.
Every single one of those decks is ultra aggro/face with the exception of Pure Paladin which is midrange. I don't know of a single viable control deck right now. Druid's trying to make big clowns but that decks gotta be getting wrecked by these face decks. Same thing with any controlling Warrior, Priest or Mage. If you look at Tiers 3 and 4 on HSReplay you'll see all the control decks. Tiers 1 and 2 are all aggro with a few midrange decks in the bottom half of Tier 2, and Pure Paladin.
I first discovered Hearthstone during the Kobold and Catacombs meta, which was very controlling. It was all the great control decks and epic games you could have with them that made me fall in love with the game. I feel like we're as far as can be from that. There's a lot of talk about Blizzard's business practices and the restrictiveness of the the new rewards track. I'm on board with most of that but the lack of control decks is a much bigger problem for me than any of that. Anyone having the same experience? I've been willing to pay for Hearthstone. I'd love to pay less and all that, but if I buy in and all I can do is a) play an aggro/face deck, b) play Pure Paladin, or c) play the kind of control deck that I love and feel impotent as aggro rushes me down....then...I hate to say it but what am I doing here?
In fact I can't even play a control deck that I enjoy because I enjoy playing good control decks that have a decent chance to at least win over 50% of their games. There's not a single one right now. Not one.
Demon Hunter has obviously pushed the game in an aggro direction. They said they didn't want to print more charge cards, yet they flood DH with powerful damage from hand every expansion. What is that if not charge??? They give hunter meme deathrattle cards and meta-defining face cards like Toxic Reinforcements. They pushed Shaman towards aggro with this expansion. They gave Zoo Warlock powerful tools like Revenant Rascal and Wriggling Horror. They even gave Paladin an aggro deck with all the silver hand cards!
Meanwhile what did control players get to work with? Tickatus? Control Warlock isn't even in the meta as far as I can see. Warrior got control tools right? Nope. The menagerie stuff is all oriented to aggressive midrange lists. Only Priest got some decent control tools. But they're not enough to make the deck even Tier 2. Maybe Big Priest can just eke out a 50% winrate.
I was actually kinda hoping this meta would slow down due to the old gods and the corrupt mechanic but it's actually worse than ever!! So what it is going on? Why is control being squeezed out? Because the people shouting on Reddit are mostly F2P aggro players and Blizzard thinks everyone hates control? Because they did market research and found out most players don't have the attention span for control? Because they made some toxic control decks that took too long to lose too like Quest Priest and now they're playing it safe by letting every lose quickly to aggro...so that they can lost quickly to aggro again or just play aggro? Because only whales play control decks and most people that play the game just have one cheap aggro deck that they can run?
I need answers. If the game is going to be like this from now on then, all theatrics and denunciations aside, this is just not Hearthstone anymore. Not for me and players like me. I'm not an aggro player. I'm not into rushing face damage and flooding boards. I'm into reacting and carefully executing my plan. I'm into cool combos and synergies and fun interactions. I'm into mid-length games and the occasional long game, not races. I'm into epic, awesome, control matches. That's my thing. Is it just me. Has the game and the community left me behind? If Hearthstone is all about aggression now and control is a thing of the past someone please let me know and at least put me out of my misery!
I think you already know the answer to this question. This game originated on PC and offered mobile as a secondary means of playing; over the years, that model has completely flipped and now we are looking at a mobile experience which allows you to play on your computer if you so desire.
Control style decks are not conducive to a mobile game play style model which needs to keep the player engaged for short bursts of time while they play on the train to work, a lunch break, taking a dump, etc. Control is dead and never coming back.
I think you already know the answer to this question. This game originated on PC and offered mobile as a secondary means of playing; over the years, that model has completely flipped and now we are looking at a mobile experience which allows you to play on your computer if you so desire.
Control style decks are not conducive to a mobile game play style model which needs to keep the player engaged for short bursts of time while they play on the train to work, a lunch break, taking a dump, etc. Control is dead and never coming back.
Jesus....that's depressing. But you make a LOT of sense and actually I never thought of it that way. Somehow what you just said never occurred to me! Thank you for shedding light on the situation. Well fuck....is Wild the same?
With the direction the game has been going for a while now, aggro is going to be king. It seems like market research has said "it sucks to run out of cards in hand", so they're trying to make sure nobody ever runs out of cards to please people who are too stupid to play a game about resource management.
With cards like voracious reader and skull of guldan in the game, playing a reactive strategy that relies on your opponent running out of pressure is just always going to be inferior.
Jesus....that's depressing. But you make a LOT of sense and actually I never thought of it that way. Somehow what you just said never occurred to me! Thank you for shedding light on the situation. Well fuck....is Wild the same?
Wild is an entirely different matter. The amount of tools are much larger, in wild and this allows control to exist.
I think I just felt my love for Hearthstone start to die inside me. For the first time. None of the stuff on Reddit would have led me to stop buying in but this....this is some real shit. Control is actually dying and control players are actually being left behind. Jesus....
I think you already know the answer to this question. This game originated on PC and offered mobile as a secondary means of playing; over the years, that model has completely flipped and now we are looking at a mobile experience which allows you to play on your computer if you so desire.
Control style decks are not conducive to a mobile game play style model which needs to keep the player engaged for short bursts of time while they play on the train to work, a lunch break, taking a dump, etc. Control is dead and never coming back.
Nothing else needs to be said.
100% truth... also aggro is easier to play (not very strategic and less thoughtful trading is required), easy playing decks are more attractive to more people, more people means more potential profits for the business. At the end of the day I think it’s the economics that dictate the direction of the product. Not necessarily salty about that but it’s unfortunate for control-type players.
Face hunter and Soul DH were pretty good matchups and I also had a positive winrate against shamans. Sure, the meta is aggro-heavy like always, but there are some viable control decks.
Clown druid is not control, there's nothing even remotely "controlling" about the archetype, it's more of a combo deck. For the most part you just ignore what your opponent does so you can ramp/draw into your clown then get a board state that they cannot interact with.
I much prefer playing control-vased decks too and have found the new meta frustrating. Never thought of the pc to mobile issue but that makes total sense.
A few other thoughts to throw in the mix:
- Scholomance academy (and to a lesser degree Ashes of Outland) had a big focus on low cost but powerful cards so the meta shifted towards a faster more aggressive style. We may be stuck with this for a while but it is swings and roundabouts so hopefully it'll shift back to control in the next expansion
- I actually hit legend with control yoink priest prior to the new expansion but that has died a death since. Saying that the meta is still evolving all the time. There may be a viable control option out there
- Smorc Demon Hunter is a problem as most control decks can't counter relentless damage from weapons to the face. For me, the most OP card in the deck is actually Blade Dance as it is such efficient removal for 2 mana. The new lifesteal guy is gross but its the fact they can remove multiple taunts so easily which really sucks.
Clown druid is not control, there's nothing even remotely "controlling" about the archetype, it's more of a combo deck. For the most part you just ignore what your opponent does so you can ramp/draw into your clown then get a board state that they cannot interact with.
If you ignore your opponent you will just die to aggro/midrange. The deck has removals, taunts and a lot of heals and it doesnt win with a combo. Against other control decks you win by outvalueing them. It has a slightly different playstyle than classic control decks, but I think its closer to control than to the other 3 archetypes.
Unfortunately, the game has developed in the wrong direction.
The main thing is to play aggro decks. 0 brain simply playing all cards is now enough. that was the last extension I bought.
I'm sure Blizzard knows that the players are running away that's why money is now being made with a battle pass.
If you think that for 400 € you don't even have all the cards from the expansions in one year .. 400 € for that I can buy the deluxe wow version and play for 25 months .. that's a bad joke!
if you look at overwatch on the other hand - no costs. one-time purchase and end
That;s weird, my personal experience has been the opposite of everyone else's. granted, I play mostly gimmick decks, and therefore usually only make it to gold rank in a given season.
I've been shocked by how consistently I've faced slower decks. almost like 1/3 of decks seem to run C'thun the shattered. I play mostly Wild, which might be the issue here. I feel Wild is the format for people who like more control style maybe? my most recent deck is Wild Menagerie Warrior. lotta fun, and decently above 50% winrate.
To me it seems the meta is way better than it was back in Goblins and Gnomes, since that like 60% of decks were face hunter and mech mage. again, my personal experience could just be random chance, but I have noticed how many slower decks I've been facing.
Both odd warrior and dead man's hand warrior are viable control decks in wild. If you want to play control these days wild is probably the best place to be. I believe someone even took dead man's hand warrior to rank 1 legend last season. Silas otk odd warrior is also a legend capable deck; does well against agro while having a win condition against slower decks. Also I wouldn't read too much into hsreplay statistics. The issue with them is that they include the results of everyone who plays a given deck/calss with the tracker on, which can be a very different set of people than everyone who plays it well. Basically if you have enough people playing a deck but poorly the stats will not reflect the decks true capabilities, and instead show a lower win rate than would be achieved by a good player. Usually it takes a bit longer for control decks to settle in a new expansion, and then a little while longer for people to figure out how to play them well. The ETC otk combo warrior in standard currently looks like it has potential and has above 50% win rate on HS replay, meaning a good player might be able to do quite well with it (I believe the version in the article on the hearthpwn front page was taken to rank 1 legend).
The meta right now is Face Hunter, Evolve Shaman, Aggro Demon Hunter (is there another kind?), Totem Shaman, "Enhancement" (Face) Shaman, "Soul" Demon Hunter (uh, be real and just call it Face DH), Highlander Hunter, Silver Hand Paladin (board flood).....and Pure Paladin.
Every single one of those decks is ultra aggro/face with the exception of Pure Paladin which is midrange. I don't know of a single viable control deck right now. Druid's trying to make big clowns but that decks gotta be getting wrecked by these face decks. Same thing with any controlling Warrior, Priest or Mage. If you look at Tiers 3 and 4 on HSReplay you'll see all the control decks. Tiers 1 and 2 are all aggro with a few midrange decks in the bottom half of Tier 2, and Pure Paladin.
I first discovered Hearthstone during the Kobold and Catacombs meta, which was very controlling. It was all the great control decks and epic games you could have with them that made me fall in love with the game. I feel like we're as far as can be from that. There's a lot of talk about Blizzard's business practices and the restrictiveness of the the new rewards track. I'm on board with most of that but the lack of control decks is a much bigger problem for me than any of that. Anyone having the same experience? I've been willing to pay for Hearthstone. I'd love to pay less and all that, but if I buy in and all I can do is a) play an aggro/face deck, b) play Pure Paladin, or c) play the kind of control deck that I love and feel impotent as aggro rushes me down....then...I hate to say it but what am I doing here?
In fact I can't even play a control deck that I enjoy because I enjoy playing good control decks that have a decent chance to at least win over 50% of their games. There's not a single one right now. Not one.
Demon Hunter has obviously pushed the game in an aggro direction. They said they didn't want to print more charge cards, yet they flood DH with powerful damage from hand every expansion. What is that if not charge??? They give hunter meme deathrattle cards and meta-defining face cards like Toxic Reinforcements. They pushed Shaman towards aggro with this expansion. They gave Zoo Warlock powerful tools like Revenant Rascal and Wriggling Horror. They even gave Paladin an aggro deck with all the silver hand cards!
Meanwhile what did control players get to work with? Tickatus? Control Warlock isn't even in the meta as far as I can see. Warrior got control tools right? Nope. The menagerie stuff is all oriented to aggressive midrange lists. Only Priest got some decent control tools. But they're not enough to make the deck even Tier 2. Maybe Big Priest can just eke out a 50% winrate.
I was actually kinda hoping this meta would slow down due to the old gods and the corrupt mechanic but it's actually worse than ever!! So what it is going on? Why is control being squeezed out? Because the people shouting on Reddit are mostly F2P aggro players and Blizzard thinks everyone hates control? Because they did market research and found out most players don't have the attention span for control? Because they made some toxic control decks that took too long to lose too like Quest Priest and now they're playing it safe by letting every lose quickly to aggro...so that they can lost quickly to aggro again or just play aggro? Because only whales play control decks and most people that play the game just have one cheap aggro deck that they can run?
I need answers. If the game is going to be like this from now on then, all theatrics and denunciations aside, this is just not Hearthstone anymore. Not for me and players like me. I'm not an aggro player. I'm not into rushing face damage and flooding boards. I'm into reacting and carefully executing my plan. I'm into cool combos and synergies and fun interactions. I'm into mid-length games and the occasional long game, not races. I'm into epic, awesome, control matches. That's my thing. Is it just me. Has the game and the community left me behind? If Hearthstone is all about aggression now and control is a thing of the past someone please let me know and at least put me out of my misery!
I think you already know the answer to this question. This game originated on PC and offered mobile as a secondary means of playing; over the years, that model has completely flipped and now we are looking at a mobile experience which allows you to play on your computer if you so desire.
Control style decks are not conducive to a mobile game play style model which needs to keep the player engaged for short bursts of time while they play on the train to work, a lunch break, taking a dump, etc. Control is dead and never coming back.
yes
Nothing else needs to be said.
With the direction the game has been going for a while now, aggro is going to be king. It seems like market research has said "it sucks to run out of cards in hand", so they're trying to make sure nobody ever runs out of cards to please people who are too stupid to play a game about resource management.
With cards like voracious reader and skull of guldan in the game, playing a reactive strategy that relies on your opponent running out of pressure is just always going to be inferior.
I'm just as sad about it as you are...
Wild is an entirely different matter. The amount of tools are much larger, in wild and this allows control to exist.
Wow.....
I think I just felt my love for Hearthstone start to die inside me. For the first time. None of the stuff on Reddit would have led me to stop buying in but this....this is some real shit. Control is actually dying and control players are actually being left behind. Jesus....
100% truth... also aggro is easier to play (not very strategic and less thoughtful trading is required), easy playing decks are more attractive to more people, more people means more potential profits for the business. At the end of the day I think it’s the economics that dictate the direction of the product. Not necessarily salty about that but it’s unfortunate for control-type players.
I have climbed to legend with this deck:
Face hunter and Soul DH were pretty good matchups and I also had a positive winrate against shamans. Sure, the meta is aggro-heavy like always, but there are some viable control decks.
Control doesn't dominate aggro like it used to, so yes, it looks that way to me for now.
Clown druid is not control, there's nothing even remotely "controlling" about the archetype, it's more of a combo deck. For the most part you just ignore what your opponent does so you can ramp/draw into your clown then get a board state that they cannot interact with.
Really good post!
I much prefer playing control-vased decks too and have found the new meta frustrating. Never thought of the pc to mobile issue but that makes total sense.
A few other thoughts to throw in the mix:
- Scholomance academy (and to a lesser degree Ashes of Outland) had a big focus on low cost but powerful cards so the meta shifted towards a faster more aggressive style. We may be stuck with this for a while but it is swings and roundabouts so hopefully it'll shift back to control in the next expansion
- I actually hit legend with control yoink priest prior to the new expansion but that has died a death since. Saying that the meta is still evolving all the time. There may be a viable control option out there
- Smorc Demon Hunter is a problem as most control decks can't counter relentless damage from weapons to the face. For me, the most OP card in the deck is actually Blade Dance as it is such efficient removal for 2 mana. The new lifesteal guy is gross but its the fact they can remove multiple taunts so easily which really sucks.
There is only my justice now
If you ignore your opponent you will just die to aggro/midrange. The deck has removals, taunts and a lot of heals and it doesnt win with a combo. Against other control decks you win by outvalueing them. It has a slightly different playstyle than classic control decks, but I think its closer to control than to the other 3 archetypes.
But aggro dominates combo and combo dominates control. So that leaves control the odd one out, sadly.
Unfortunately, the game has developed in the wrong direction.
The main thing is to play aggro decks. 0 brain simply playing all cards is now enough. that was the last extension I bought.
I'm sure Blizzard knows that the players are running away that's why money is now being made with a battle pass.
If you think that for 400 € you don't even have all the cards from the expansions in one year .. 400 € for that I can buy the deluxe wow version and play for 25 months .. that's a bad joke!
if you look at overwatch on the other hand - no costs. one-time purchase and end
That;s weird, my personal experience has been the opposite of everyone else's. granted, I play mostly gimmick decks, and therefore usually only make it to gold rank in a given season.
I've been shocked by how consistently I've faced slower decks. almost like 1/3 of decks seem to run C'thun the shattered. I play mostly Wild, which might be the issue here. I feel Wild is the format for people who like more control style maybe? my most recent deck is Wild Menagerie Warrior. lotta fun, and decently above 50% winrate.
To me it seems the meta is way better than it was back in Goblins and Gnomes, since that like 60% of decks were face hunter and mech mage. again, my personal experience could just be random chance, but I have noticed how many slower decks I've been facing.
All i know is that every last day of the month i can hit legend even from D 5 with a homebrew -full of removals- control deck in wild, easy.
Make aggro epidemics work for you.
Netdecking control decks doesn't help, you need to be unpredictable.
Very nice post and comments by the way!!!
Both odd warrior and dead man's hand warrior are viable control decks in wild. If you want to play control these days wild is probably the best place to be. I believe someone even took dead man's hand warrior to rank 1 legend last season. Silas otk odd warrior is also a legend capable deck; does well against agro while having a win condition against slower decks. Also I wouldn't read too much into hsreplay statistics. The issue with them is that they include the results of everyone who plays a given deck/calss with the tracker on, which can be a very different set of people than everyone who plays it well. Basically if you have enough people playing a deck but poorly the stats will not reflect the decks true capabilities, and instead show a lower win rate than would be achieved by a good player. Usually it takes a bit longer for control decks to settle in a new expansion, and then a little while longer for people to figure out how to play them well. The ETC otk combo warrior in standard currently looks like it has potential and has above 50% win rate on HS replay, meaning a good player might be able to do quite well with it (I believe the version in the article on the hearthpwn front page was taken to rank 1 legend).
If control is never coming back, they might just delete Priest from this game so people don't need to ask any of these questions anymore.