Priests got their time to shine for whole 2 weeks when the new combo deck got figured out and now Blizzard want to send the class back to the dumpster again.
I understand priest has to suffer after it made whole ladder suffer for so long with 5-8 Raza bs... But I feel they deserve some love
Btw, they could nerf Divine Spirit, that is the real problem and a really dumb combo, but they leave no other choice to priest. They dont have other good cards to make decks viable
It seems like they ONLY want Priest to be a control class. By reverting the Arms card, it really makes it hard to stay on the board for Priest. But people are simply going to go back to the DS/IF combo and win that way. They didn't touch the OTK combo, so Priest players will simply adjust again.
I think reverting the cards was a bad idea and they could have tried a few things to balance them more. Galaxy could have gone to 6. See if it matters or changes the win rates much. Arms could have been reduced to +1/+2 instead. or +2/+1.
So they buffed cards and when it appears they were too strong, they go back on it. Meanwhile the other buffs had no impact on Standard at all.
I hope they don't shy away from Buffs in the future. Changing a few cards to make them playable and bringing other classes to be viable is a great idea and it's digital, so any changes they mess up on, can always be reverted.
Mage got hit really hard though and will most likely drop down in win rate and popularity.
I doubt it will be in the dumpster. They got and will get too good stuff to be the worst class .
The nerf was absolutely correct and needed, since Priest was already the strongest class and due the changes would have been even more broken. Even Zetalot said the nerf was not enough.
Somene one Reddit already mentioned that the core problem of Priest is probably their heropower. Without minions almost useless, with targetable minions actually too strong. A lot of classes simply can’t deal with a 3/5 on turn 2 that gets bigger and is meanwhile drawing a shitload of cards. But to fizzle with the Heropower or whatever, I guess it’s too late for this.
To make Priests viable is always like playing with fire, since it’s a very dominant class on minion vs minion combat ( due their heropower,buffs,aoe,resurrecting, stealing silence etc.) . That’s why Priests can feel very uninteractive to play against, especially when they also have some sort of OTK.
I'm with you, Divivne Spirit/Inner Fire combos will plague priest until they deal with it - they always want to add ways of amking the priest healing abilites more effective, and it's thematic, so that means ways to add health - then come the OTK decks - not what they wanted.
I'm with you, Divivne Spirit/Inner Fire combos will plague priest until they deal with it - they always want to add ways of amking the priest healing abilites more effective, and it's thematic, so that means ways to add health - then come the OTK decks - not what they wanted.
...this will keep happening...
DS/IF days are numbered. It has to be the #1 candidate for HOF rotation next spring.
Did anyone even play Extra Arms? didn't face a single combo priest at rank 10. Priest used to be my favorite class as it was all about copying your opponents cards, stealing some and controlling the board, but since Machinegun priest I haven't played much priest - I liked it better when we didn't have a win condition.
Does a 1-mana increase to Extra Arms really destroy current Priest decks? Hurt/slow it down, of course, but... OP: dumpster? Really?!
The simple answer to that is . . . yes
People talk about the Divine Spirit / Inner Fire interaction as the problem engine, and so it is.
HOWEVER, the one thing that has kept DS from being the most oppressive force in the game is that, with the few exceptions of times when we had some sort of Charge option, the priest deck had to stick a relatively unmolested minion on the board for a turn to swing for lethal.
This is NOT as easy as it sounds. It turns out that, in particular, having the best turn 1 play left in the game (Northshire) wanes in power when compared to some of the worst turn 2 options in the game.
Extra Arms costing 2 suddenly catapulted a turn 1 Cleric into a possible turn 2 win. There are SO MANY circumstances where a turn 2 swinging 3/5 into a turn 3 swinging 5/x is just game. Fuck the DS combo, the game is won. And though that doesn't happen incredibly consistently, having the potential to outright win the game with no counterplay IS the reason for this nerf.
It's not a great compromise. It IS the difference between the best possible turn 2 play in the game, and a dogshit early game in general. But, I admit that I'm more comfortable with the dogshit early game than the "I randomly draw the right two cards and win on turn 2" scenario.
Fun fact. Statistically speaking, Northshire Cleric into Extra Arms (post buff) has a higher win rate than turn 2 Keleseth, shadowstep, Keleseth did.
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To add to what @Shadowrisen said, all of which I agree with, one of the reasons why Combo Priest is so good is that beats the Aggro decks, largely because of 2-mana Arms. Cleric into Arms, as well as Pyro + Arms + other cheap spells was devastating to Aggro. Both of those will be gone now. And there might not be a replacement.
Something tells me that the next expansion features more mid-range tempo for them that made a 2 mana extra arms a nightmare situation for other decks. I don't think this was a reactive nerf, but a proactive one. I completely agree that Extra Arms wasn't really a problem.
what about van cleef. I don't see why every other class can have some sick turn 2 or 3 gimmick that is a must tech for, but priest 3/5 turn two is sooo f%$%^ nasty. seems like you've always had to worry about some early threat like that. currently, as @Shadowrisen said, it can be daunting to get a minion to stick because everyone can teck in poison murlocs, silences, freeze. Should have fixed ds. It will be HoF'd next month probably. Meanwhile if you want priest and no combo, it looks like Leeroy Jenkins. Really fits class identity.
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Oh make no mistake, as a person who has played since the beta, it's been interesting to watch the many time bombs of the classic set be defused . . . except for 3.
I looked through the set for funsies, and it looks like they've actually come pretty close to getting rid of all the design-restricting shit. Warsong Commander was annihilated. Druid's ramp is hampered. Mage's freeze damage is handled. Rogue's burst and conceal is . . . somewhat handled. Except for those pesky 3.
And by "those pesky 3", I of course mean Mountain Giant, Malygos, and DS/IF. And no, I don't think Leeroy should be on the list, but that's another discussion.
Malygos hasn't reared his head in a bit, so it's easy to remember the stranglehold he continues to have on rogue and druid design.
I'm racking my brain for a year when Mountain Giant wasn't in tier 1 at some point during the meta, and not coming up with it.
But DS/IF is particularly poisonous, since it's the last of the classic time bombs that is class-based. This discussion changes immediately if that ever changes, but for some reason, they continue to dance around the inevitable HoF move.
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i would have preferred if they just HoFed extra arms, i couldnt care less about standard tbh but well if it was too strong they could have HoFed it, at this point i think theur policy of >Hofing once a year and nerfing the rest of the time is just dumb af, and my reasons are simple, extra arms gave wild priest variety, before the buff all priest you ever saw were Big priest, a deck that everyone "loves" after the buff priest got so many new and viable archetypes that facing them was a doozy, it was almost always fun and unexpected, the extra arms nerf means we're back to swarms of big priests and now we can't even play big priest counters because secret mage with the new broken secret support eats Bp's counters alive
Priest will be fine. Extra arms is just a good card in the deck, it's far from the best card in the deck, and will be easily replaceable.
The extra arms nerf is completely fair. They picked a card that isn't critical to the deck, because right now combo priest is the best deck at legend, and it's a little bit scary to leave it as is while weakening two of the other best classes. Cards like DS/IF and cleric are much stronger and potentially scarier, but they left those cards alone so priest can still enjoy actually being viable.
Priests got their time to shine for whole 2 weeks when the new combo deck got figured out and now Blizzard want to send the class back to the dumpster again.
I understand priest has to suffer after it made whole ladder suffer for so long with 5-8 Raza bs... But I feel they deserve some love
Btw, they could nerf Divine Spirit, that is the real problem and a really dumb combo, but they leave no other choice to priest. They dont have other good cards to make decks viable
It seems like they ONLY want Priest to be a control class. By reverting the Arms card, it really makes it hard to stay on the board for Priest. But people are simply going to go back to the DS/IF combo and win that way. They didn't touch the OTK combo, so Priest players will simply adjust again.
I think reverting the cards was a bad idea and they could have tried a few things to balance them more. Galaxy could have gone to 6. See if it matters or changes the win rates much. Arms could have been reduced to +1/+2 instead. or +2/+1.
So they buffed cards and when it appears they were too strong, they go back on it. Meanwhile the other buffs had no impact on Standard at all.
I hope they don't shy away from Buffs in the future. Changing a few cards to make them playable and bringing other classes to be viable is a great idea and it's digital, so any changes they mess up on, can always be reverted.
Mage got hit really hard though and will most likely drop down in win rate and popularity.
I doubt it will be in the dumpster. They got and will get too good stuff to be the worst class .
The nerf was absolutely correct and needed, since Priest was already the strongest class and due the changes would have been even more broken. Even Zetalot said the nerf was not enough.
Somene one Reddit already mentioned that the core problem of Priest is probably their heropower. Without minions almost useless, with targetable minions actually too strong. A lot of classes simply can’t deal with a 3/5 on turn 2 that gets bigger and is meanwhile drawing a shitload of cards. But to fizzle with the Heropower or whatever, I guess it’s too late for this.
To make Priests viable is always like playing with fire, since it’s a very dominant class on minion vs minion combat ( due their heropower,buffs,aoe,resurrecting, stealing silence etc.) . That’s why Priests can feel very uninteractive to play against, especially when they also have some sort of OTK.
I'm with you, Divivne Spirit/Inner Fire combos will plague priest until they deal with it - they always want to add ways of amking the priest healing abilites more effective, and it's thematic, so that means ways to add health - then come the OTK decks - not what they wanted.
...this will keep happening...
DS/IF days are numbered. It has to be the #1 candidate for HOF rotation next spring.
Even if they want to nerf, at least nerf the right card: DS or IF should have been nerfed not Extra Arms.
That's what I think too
But the problem is that they wouldn't put something in HoF in the middle of a season...
Does a 1-mana increase to Extra Arms really destroy current Priest decks? Hurt/slow it down, of course, but... OP: dumpster? Really?!
Did anyone even play Extra Arms? didn't face a single combo priest at rank 10.
Priest used to be my favorite class as it was all about copying your opponents cards, stealing some and controlling the board, but since Machinegun priest I haven't played much priest - I liked it better when we didn't have a win condition.
The simple answer to that is . . . yes
People talk about the Divine Spirit / Inner Fire interaction as the problem engine, and so it is.
HOWEVER, the one thing that has kept DS from being the most oppressive force in the game is that, with the few exceptions of times when we had some sort of Charge option, the priest deck had to stick a relatively unmolested minion on the board for a turn to swing for lethal.
This is NOT as easy as it sounds. It turns out that, in particular, having the best turn 1 play left in the game (Northshire) wanes in power when compared to some of the worst turn 2 options in the game.
Extra Arms costing 2 suddenly catapulted a turn 1 Cleric into a possible turn 2 win. There are SO MANY circumstances where a turn 2 swinging 3/5 into a turn 3 swinging 5/x is just game. Fuck the DS combo, the game is won. And though that doesn't happen incredibly consistently, having the potential to outright win the game with no counterplay IS the reason for this nerf.
It's not a great compromise. It IS the difference between the best possible turn 2 play in the game, and a dogshit early game in general. But, I admit that I'm more comfortable with the dogshit early game than the "I randomly draw the right two cards and win on turn 2" scenario.
Fun fact. Statistically speaking, Northshire Cleric into Extra Arms (post buff) has a higher win rate than turn 2 Keleseth, shadowstep, Keleseth did.
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To add to what @Shadowrisen said, all of which I agree with, one of the reasons why Combo Priest is so good is that beats the Aggro decks, largely because of 2-mana Arms. Cleric into Arms, as well as Pyro + Arms + other cheap spells was devastating to Aggro. Both of those will be gone now. And there might not be a replacement.
Something tells me that the next expansion features more mid-range tempo for them that made a 2 mana extra arms a nightmare situation for other decks. I don't think this was a reactive nerf, but a proactive one. I completely agree that Extra Arms wasn't really a problem.
what about van cleef. I don't see why every other class can have some sick turn 2 or 3 gimmick that is a must tech for, but priest 3/5 turn two is sooo f%$%^ nasty. seems like you've always had to worry about some early threat like that. currently, as @Shadowrisen said, it can be daunting to get a minion to stick because everyone can teck in poison murlocs, silences, freeze. Should have fixed ds. It will be HoF'd next month probably. Meanwhile if you want priest and no combo, it looks like Leeroy Jenkins. Really fits class identity.
"You can't just assign random prices to junk you find in a storage locker."
@Moon
Oh make no mistake, as a person who has played since the beta, it's been interesting to watch the many time bombs of the classic set be defused . . . except for 3.
I looked through the set for funsies, and it looks like they've actually come pretty close to getting rid of all the design-restricting shit. Warsong Commander was annihilated. Druid's ramp is hampered. Mage's freeze damage is handled. Rogue's burst and conceal is . . . somewhat handled. Except for those pesky 3.
And by "those pesky 3", I of course mean Mountain Giant, Malygos, and DS/IF. And no, I don't think Leeroy should be on the list, but that's another discussion.
Malygos hasn't reared his head in a bit, so it's easy to remember the stranglehold he continues to have on rogue and druid design.
I'm racking my brain for a year when Mountain Giant wasn't in tier 1 at some point during the meta, and not coming up with it.
But DS/IF is particularly poisonous, since it's the last of the classic time bombs that is class-based. This discussion changes immediately if that ever changes, but for some reason, they continue to dance around the inevitable HoF move.
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Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
I remember back in March calling for Inner Fire to be HOF'd during the April rotation. Ah, good times.
i would have preferred if they just HoFed extra arms, i couldnt care less about standard tbh but well if it was too strong they could have HoFed it, at this point i think theur policy of >Hofing once a year and nerfing the rest of the time is just dumb af, and my reasons are simple, extra arms gave wild priest variety, before the buff all priest you ever saw were Big priest, a deck that everyone "loves" after the buff priest got so many new and viable archetypes that facing them was a doozy, it was almost always fun and unexpected, the extra arms nerf means we're back to swarms of big priests and now we can't even play big priest counters because secret mage with the new broken secret support eats Bp's counters alive
They need to make a 2-mana buff that can't be played on turn 2. Something like:
3 mana: Twinspell Give a minion +2/+2. Refill 1 mana crystal.
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Priest will be fine. Extra arms is just a good card in the deck, it's far from the best card in the deck, and will be easily replaceable.
The extra arms nerf is completely fair. They picked a card that isn't critical to the deck, because right now combo priest is the best deck at legend, and it's a little bit scary to leave it as is while weakening two of the other best classes. Cards like DS/IF and cleric are much stronger and potentially scarier, but they left those cards alone so priest can still enjoy actually being viable.
Strongest class for two weeks for the first time since the rotation. Yeah, priest definetely deserved this nerf /s