Hearthpwn

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Quote from PsyyKik >>

Look, above rank 5, the ladder is horrendous right now - it's 40% druid, 35% of which seems to be jade druid. Yes, the deck can be beaten...but it shits all over most the new control cards that hyped people up from the new expansion, and the counter card, being 4/6 6 mana play, is a huge tempo loss...so if you luck out and have it hand on turn 6 you'd think it would atleast result in a near guaranteed win right? They way reno used to work against aggro...does it fuck! it swings the match probably 70-30 in your favor as a control deck. Most of the time you'll draw it too late for even that.

Jade druid has got to go, UI and new defensive tools have made it worse than ever, and it was annoying as hell before even as a tier 3 deck. Worst idea blizzard ever had, baby's first control deck, shits all over far harder to play, normal control decks.

 It's a Tech Card, it is meant to swing the matchup in your favour. The effect on the card doesn't say "Play this Card, your Jade Druid opponent will concede". You still need to be able to win the match, it just became heavily favoured for you. That is how Tech Cards work.

Don't try to add text to a card that doesn't have it. No Tech Cards says your opponent will concede if you play this card against them. It simply says do X, which happens to really swing the matchup in your favour. Any good player will still continue the game and try to win despite that. Very few cases lead to a concede from the opponent right away.

 This particular tech card needed to pose more threat than it does, to stop the nightmare meta we are currently living in. Jade druid currently crushes aggro, thanks to the new defensive cards they received, and we already know what it does to the majority of control decks, they didn't even need UI. Considering its a turn 6 play you can really only afford to run 1 of, at best, meaning it's unlikely you draw it, a tech card that needs to played on turn 6 or very soon after or its useless as a counterplay anyway. Yes you're are damned right it needed to be close to a guaranteed win (if you can play it on turn 6) against one specific deck, and that is not "adding text to the card". Argue with me again I will just assume you are a jade druid player, because you have to blind not to see the state of ladder right now.

 Except that it doesn't just target one deck now, does it. Besides as far as I am concerned you are whining without any data to back your claims. You want to know what is dumb about this card. Its the first tech card, to see widespread play that doesn't require any specific board state to work. You play it and you get immediate benefit from it. If I am running an Ooze I can't just play it and remove weapons from their deck, they have to play them first and this is also true of other tech cards. In fact, it is the most badly designed tech card I've ever seen. If they wanted to deal with Jade Druid they could just have nerfed Jade Idol and they could have been done with all this, designing uninteractive tech cards isn't the way to do things and it ruins the strategies of other blameless archetypes.

As for your "it doesn't do enough", here are some actual statistics:

https://hsreplay.net/articles/24/how-good-skulking-geist-275K-plays-analyzed

Tech cards are soft counters to archetypes, so that you can play the deck you like and gain an advantage over certain archetypes if you are having trouble with them. If you want to increase your winrate further than play a deck that is favored against the strategy you want to beat.

I like your balance suggestions, but here would be my version of druid nerfs:

Innervate- 3 mana: gain 5 mana crystals this turn only (no more turn 1 fledglings, no more innervates after ultimate infestation/auctioneer)

Jade idol- 1mana: summon a jade golem

Ultimate infestation: number of cards drawn reduced to 4

I suppose that makes sense. I guess a lot of my frustration comes from the optimization I'm trying to accomplish with Jade Rogue, as in times past it's been able to completely dumpster Jade Druid and currently does really well against most other classes, but both spreading plague and ultimate infestation pose a large problem to my deck and, though their board clears be small and scarce, I find that it's oftentimes enough to give them the tempo they need to put me in an unwinnable position unless I can curve perfectly in DK Valeera with Vanish at the ready. I suppose I may just have to try another archtype. I do appreciate the advice though.

Quote from notsoclutch >>

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Quote from Juanshop >>

Are you complaining about meta just one week later of launch?

 So you're not allowed to complain about a terrible meta if it hasn't completely settled yet?

 Considering that the meta will be completely different in a week, it doesnt make much sense to complain at the moment.  Feel free to do whatever youd like, but there are plenty of decks that beat jade druid that simply arent being played in favor of the KOFT flavor of the day.

Quote from Nicholasjh >>

In any case if you look at the statistics, there are a couple dozen decks above an average 55% win rate from a variety of classes. I think the real issue is that the modifications of jade druid were easy to get into, so it's one of the cheaper decks (since you only needed around  2400 dust to make most of the changes. That and that it's a realatively forgiving deck, something the masses will always flock too. it doesn't even show as the highest winning rate deck in the statistics. What this post is really about is - wah, I want the stability of knowing the meta and knowing what to expect. I don't want to have to learn to adjust to the meta on the fly. I have to feel validated by automatically making it to rank X every month like I normally do, because I'm not good enough or don't have the cards to counter the common meta. and also the fact that there is an overpopulation of Jade Druid due to the ease to get into it and how forgiving the deck is, which is the only real problem here. (not that there shouldn't be a forgiving deck, just it's over representation. )

 

 

 

 Yeah, but how do you know one week from now that is the case as the meta stabilizes. The example I take is how N'Zoth Paladin was considered by many to be OP a week after Old Gods and a few weeks later it was a low tier 2 deck. A lot of Druid was to be expected since Jade Druid is one of the decks with a high winrate against control, which was to be expected of the meta given that Blizzard printed so many cards that cater to control. It is easy to get an optimal list meant to crush control and play it in the first weeks of a new expansion when experimentation is at an all time high. I am 100% sure that a lot of Midrange decks and some Aggro decks crush Jade Druid, which means that when the meta speeds up, which due to prior experience is likely to happen in the 2nd and 3rd weeks post expansion, and the popularity of Druid is likely to fall off. Just Spreading Plague doesn't mean you'll start beating Aggro/Midrange decks just like that. I know from my experience with Ramp Druid that my opponent's don't even play around it, even adding 1/1 tokens needlessly right when I am about to get at 5 mana, but as time goes on they will be forced to minimize its effect or just stop playing those decks altogether.

Who plays pirate warrior still anyways

All this "druid is unbeatable" crap, its secret pala all over again, people are just to lazy to adjust.

You can beat them like 80% with questmage.

Atm. i play Evolve shaman and thought i lose some, most games i win vs druid.

You must be very lazy at deck designing then, I've been having 0 trouble with druids using my priest deck. or quest mage.

also, pirate warrior lmao mate you are getting hard countered. well deserved tbh.

Quote from Maukiepaukie >>

Quote from notsoclutch >>

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Quote from Juanshop >>

Are you complaining about meta just one week later of launch?

 So you're not allowed to complain about a terrible meta if it hasn't completely settled yet?

 Considering that the meta will be completely different in a week, it doesnt make much sense to complain at the moment.  Feel free to do whatever youd like, but there are plenty of decks that beat jade druid that simply arent being played in favor of the KOFT flavor of the day.

 We'll come back in a week. The only change I can possibly see happening is that aggro becomes dominant once agian.

The thing is that the decks that beat Druid as people are saying are Shaman, Priest and Quest Mage. But these decks suck against all other decks. I farm Shaman and Priests with my Control Warlock and Miracle Rogue and I haven't seen a quest mage on ladder.

The only good counter to Druid is Midrange Hunter and maybe even Secret Mage which also do good against other decks.

Quote from DiamondDM13 >>

Quote from PsyyKik >>

 This particular tech card needed to pose more threat than it does, to stop the nightmare meta we are currently living in. Jade druid currently crushes aggro, thanks to the new defensive cards they received, and we already know what it does to the majority of control decks, they didn't even need UI. Considering its a turn 6 play you can really only afford to run 1 of, at best, meaning it's unlikely you draw it, a tech card that needs to played on turn 6 or very soon after or its useless as a counterplay anyway. Yes you're are damned right it needed to be close to a guaranteed win (if you can play it on turn 6) against one specific deck, and that is not "adding text to the card". Argue with me again I will just assume you are a jade druid player, because you have to blind not to see the state of ladder right now.

 Tech Card DON'T need to pose a threat, they shouldn't at all. Tech Card that pose a threat on their own are bad. Big Game Hunter was a terrible Tech Card that prevented 7+ Attack minions from seeing play for years because it posed a threat on it's own. For 2 Years all you saw was Alexstrazsa and Dr. Boom, both because you played them for their battlecry.

Skulking Geist works at any point in the game from turn 6 forward. If it's your last card in the deck, it sucks, if you play it much earlier, it is great, it stops the Infinite Jades, which is the biggest problem Control Decks have, which is why Control Decks are the ones playing the card. Aggro and Midrange already have a fair matchup with Jade Druids, as long as they are player properly. Players should know they use Spreading Plague, and as such players have the obligation to play around it, most players don't do that.

As for the rest. I will argue with anyone I see that decides to state incorrect things, as long as I have the patience to argue. I do not really care what you think I am. I'm just as much of a Jade Druid player as a Exodia Mage (Actually I'm more Exodia Mage and Control Mage and every other Mage, but not relevant), as much as I'm a Midrange player, or Miracle Player. The only thing I don't play that much is Aggro, because I'm not a fan, but I have more than enough experience with it to be able to discuss it's balance. That is what you lack, experience with most decks and cards, which is why I can look and discuss decks and cards from a neutral perspective, while you can't.

Before raging about any card or deck, players should just play the card or deck for a substancial amount of experience, and only then, after having the time to see the strengths and weaknesses of the decks or cards, should they take conclusion on the balance. The problem? Most people here completely skip this process and just come here to rage.

it's weird that people are complaining about this seeing as you can wreck druid with any midrange deck 

I'm playing midrange murloc paladin with a 60% win rate overall with about a 70% win rate against druid. Druid isn't OP, it's just better against all of the control that's being played right now.  

Druid is tier 1 deck but not the most op deck. Control priest a.k.a re-animation priest a.k.a big priest is the most op right now.. 4 mana to summon big minions, op dk hero (battlecry and hero power),etc

Druid is the new wotog warrior, karazhan shaman.. just a strong overall class its just it's time to be crazy.. nothing new

Quote from Badabingbadabum >>

Quote from Nicholasjh >>

In any case if you look at the statistics, there are a couple dozen decks above an average 55% win rate from a variety of classes. I think the real issue is that the modifications of jade druid were easy to get into, so it's one of the cheaper decks (since you only needed around  2400 dust to make most of the changes. That and that it's a realatively forgiving deck, something the masses will always flock too. it doesn't even show as the highest winning rate deck in the statistics. What this post is really about is - wah, I want the stability of knowing the meta and knowing what to expect. I don't want to have to learn to adjust to the meta on the fly. I have to feel validated by automatically making it to rank X every month like I normally do, because I'm not good enough or don't have the cards to counter the common meta. and also the fact that there is an overpopulation of Jade Druid due to the ease to get into it and how forgiving the deck is, which is the only real problem here. (not that there shouldn't be a forgiving deck, just it's over representation. )

 

 

 

 That's not my complaint at least. My complaint is that the meta is already too predictable. With Druid here and Druid there from rank 5 (and then a few Priest and Paladin thrown into the mix). I'm sure it's easy to counter but that's not what bothers me. For me it's not about winning and I don't feel entitled to reach legend every month. We're only one week into the new expansion and I'm already getting tired of playing the same matchup over and over and over. This should be a good and fun time to play HS with new innovations and lots of variety. This is supposed to be my honeymoon phase and it's been taken away from me. Grrrrr!

It's the first expansion where I've given up on the meta this early (that even includes the terrible Karazhan/Shamenstone days).

Quote from eh_elu_coy >>

Druid is tier 1 deck but not the most op deck. Control priest a.k.a re-animation priest a.k.a big priest is the most op right now.. 4 mana to summon big minions, op dk hero (battlecry and hero power),etc

DRUARD ISH UNDEFTEATEDABLE!

Ultimate Infestation has broken Druid in the exact same way Tunnel Trogg broke Shaman; it erases the weakness of a class mechanic, in this case, RAMP. 

The weakness of ramp is that you need to give up early game tempo and card advantage for the prospect of more powerful turns later on, similar to real life investments. There used to be a big risk involved in playing Nourish for mana crystals, as you're paying 5 mana to go  -1 w/o affecting the board state the turn it's played.

Now that risk is pretty much zero! 99% of the time, the 1st nourish is played for mana crystals w/o a second thought, cuz everyone knows all that card advantage and tempo they lost will return twicefold!

Getting 3 to 4 turns ahead of your opponent every game should come at a great cost, and right now there is next to none! That's just straight up broken in my book. I give 2/3 weeks before Blizz nerf bat comes, otherwise it's Druidstone for a year.