Some want to play fun decks - they arent getting a chance, since aggro crushes it most of the time.
Not true. I only play fun decks, and I have a positive win rate with plenty of win streaks. And I find losing fun, too. Because I find playing the game fun, regardless of the outcome of each match.
Everyone wants to generalize from their own experiences, and that's a terrible way to generalize. You can't even use the sentiments of people on the forums to buttress your position, because the most vocal posters are a self-selected group of the saltiest players in the game.
"I play to win, I play Pirate warrior and Shaman".
Blizzard should have nerfed Tunnel Trogg long ago, waiting for stuff to cycle (2 FUCKING YEARS!!!) is unacceptable. Small time buccanner needs nerfing now blizzard, you hear us? Now!
Blizzard needs to fix the reward structure. They need to not let you climb the ladder with ONE deck and ONE hero.
I was with you all the way until you said this. I only want to play as Druid and all the quests and other ways Blizzard tries to get me to play as the other classes are NOT THE WAY I WANT TO PLAY.
Half of me agrees with you (as someone who played shaman almost exclusively, when they were bad lol). But it's hard to have a decent meta without something to stop people from playing the SAME classes over and over. But you are right. People should get to play however they want.
So with a mediocre/ bad draw you are suggesting its better for a druid to pass t1 then to shuffle the idol. That makes sense.
Sarcasm aside, yes it is better to pass T1 than to shuffle jade idols into your deck. It's better to play a jade idol to summon a golem turn 1 than it is to pass, but passing is better than shuffling if it comes to that.
@PAH; I think you're right though in that the reward structure needs to change, at least somehow, to try and discourage something like the situation we have with Pirate Warrior or Aggro Shaman. I don't even think there's anything wrong with those lists necessarily (STB could use adjusting but that's my only beef); but right now the difference in efficiency with those lists compared to anything else makes it seem almost counterproductive to pick anything else. So in the long term to fix that they need to resolve the issue they acknowledged in the Q&A, and make ladder less grindy; this is what I'd wager a big portion of what we see with representation on ladder, and if they implement a way to at least allow people to not feel punished for picking a slower list then we'd see something more balanced. Like if Pirate Warrior or Aggro Shaman isn't 30-40% of the ladder, where does Midrange Hunter fall? They'd still lose horribly to the hyper-aggro lists, but if the meta isn't overwhelmingly unfavored for them do they get a chance to succeed?
Personally I'm a big fan of the idea of thresholds at 15/10/5, with the monthly reset placing players at higher tiers. I know they talked about win streaks past 5, but I'll be honest... I'm not sure I think that's needed, and could cause a spike in bots since they won't need higher than a 50% winrate anymore. This still doesn't fix high legend (there was a video of Amnesiac talking about it on Reddit, basically it's a similar issue; fast/efficient is basically mandatory currently for Top 100 climbs), but it's a start.
I don't think there's any issue with people playing the same class for the entirety of their HS "career"; I imagine that's rare, but people should play what they find enjoyable and there's nothing wrong with that. It's better to encourage people to play the other classes, like they do with quests, but if someone really does enjoy Pirate Warrior more than any other deck and wants to play only Pirate Warrior I'm not concerned by that.
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I think a lot of it has to do with the fact there isn't a lot of diversity. People say there is but there really isn't.
1. Shaman. Doesn't matter if it's aggro, control or midrange they share 50% of the same cards.
2. Priest. It's either Dragon or Reno.
3. Mage. Only Reno.
4. Warlock. Only Reno
5. Paladin. Only murlocs.
6. Warrior. Aggro, sometimes dragon rarely control.
It comes down to this and it sucks. You forgot druid tho, 100% Jade.
some of those decks i dont mind to much, since the games are at least fast. And its also somehow cool when my opponent is a facerolling pirate warrior and he runs out of steam. But Druid and Priest is another story. I awlays instant concede. Thats also why i dont bother to go further then rank 10 nowadays...with conceding 20% of all games the progress is slow and surely the fun is also gone.
I still have lots of fun, but I don't climb higher than Rank 10. Between 10 and 20, I see tons of diversity, and I can play 3 or 4 different flavors of Reno deck and maintain a positive win-rate.
I think countering Pirate aggro is a fun challenge in and of itself. And Jade Druid is its own little puzzle that I'm always trying to crack (a tough sell when playing Control myself).
My advice is: stop worrying about climbing and try to play an interesting gameplan instead.
You have to TRY to have fun, that's how you know team 5 is garbage
This TRYING to have fun is a widespread feel in face of knowing things are wrong and will remain wrong. Having fun in the land of wrongs is quite a achievement. Still there are types here pretending to have stock in HS, defending everything devs come up with. Defending injustice is an art in itself. It would be ethically correct if Blizzard said: guys this is our game. We decide, don't like it bugger off!
Instead they speak of "balance" and "design space" as if they are trying to make a good game. Falling of the ladder of classes every rotation is hardly a sign of balance. As long as this game is that popular (against all odds) and there is no real competition, there will no improvements and skillless fast decks will remain ruling the meta. Sad but true.
But there is no defence for those defending the current state of the game.
You make very good points, and I agree with you. Heroes (aka Paladin and Hunter) who can't even play on the ladder, because their decks don't have good WR...that's a big balance problem and it needs to be addressed.
But, don't fool yourself thinking Hearthstone will be more than just a casual game (that's what HS is a casual game). People here want HS to be a high skilled game for the core gamer. That's never going to happen folks, but at least the game should try and balance things out a bit more tho.
Reasons for losing: Not drawing Auchenai or Circle of Healing versus zoolock or facehunter. Not drawing Mind Control versus Control Warrior. Not drawing both Shadow Word: Death and BGH versus Handlock
...
There's so few cards that actually COUNTER other cards.
Where's the early game cards that negate the damage from pirates..? What 1 or even 2 mana card negates the potential 9 damage from Spirit Claws? What 1 or 2 mana card replaces the 3 minion board advantage from Spirit Claws?
Where's the 2/3 for 1 that cannot attack heroes, and restores 3 health to your hero at the end of turn? That's the only thing that actually negates a 3/2 for 1 completely, without being horrible situational.
I mean. Take a serious look on Drain Life. And let that card sink in for a couple of seconds. 3 mana. 2 damage, one time. Heal for 2. It doesn't even negate one single 1 cost minion, for 3 mana.
Author, you're so negative to other players, it's unbelievable how can you even have fun in the game.
You are right that Hearthpwn will probably never change mostly because no one complains about having fun. Lots of negativity comes from the idea that the fun has been taken away and that has happened to lots of people. If there are frequent posts of saltiness, then it shows that there is a problem with (in this case hearthstone) the game design.
Author, you're so negative to other players, it's unbelievable how can you even have fun in the game.
You are right that Hearthpwn will probably never change mostly because no one complains about having fun. Lots of negativity comes from the idea that the fun has been taken away and that has happened to lots of people. If there are frequent posts of saltiness, then it shows that there is a problem with (in this case hearthstone) the game design.
Such people are unable to have fun in any meta. For last 2 years I read this forum, I can't remember any single day without meta rant on this forum. It was Hunter, Patron Warrior, Secret Paladin, Combo Druid, whatever. So it's not a problem with the meta, it's problem with the people. I agree that current meta isn't diverse enough, but the fun is still here as it always was.
For me the most "unfun" thing is knowing already from start what deck to expect. In Standard if you see a Rogue is only THAT Rogue deck; Shaman same with little variation.... Warlock? I bet its a Reno, ditto Mage. Hunter and Pally MIA.
For me the most "unfun" thing is knowing already from start what deck to expect. In Standard if you see a Rogue is only THAT Rogue deck; Shaman same with little variation.... Warlock? I bet its a Reno, ditto Mage. Hunter and Pally MIA.
In Wild? EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED FROM ALL CLASSES.
Wild just has a bigger cardpool, standard will forever have a low cardpool
That's IMHO the problem numba 1 of Standard. Shallow card pool so only few decks are competitive.
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Imagine a play mode where your class is determined by RNG every game ^^
5 pages in a salt post. Hearthpwn never changes.
Author, you're so negative to other players, it's unbelievable how can you even have fun in the game.
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I also waited. Just wasted my time
Not true. I only play fun decks, and I have a positive win rate with plenty of win streaks. And I find losing fun, too. Because I find playing the game fun, regardless of the outcome of each match.
Everyone wants to generalize from their own experiences, and that's a terrible way to generalize. You can't even use the sentiments of people on the forums to buttress your position, because the most vocal posters are a self-selected group of the saltiest players in the game.
I took a small break for about a month. Started playing again, got some enjoyment back. Playing control warrior ATM.
"I play to win, I play Pirate warrior and Shaman".
Blizzard should have nerfed Tunnel Trogg long ago, waiting for stuff to cycle (2 FUCKING YEARS!!!) is unacceptable. Small time buccanner needs nerfing now blizzard, you hear us? Now!
Play this deck I made just for when you feel the way you feel
@PAH; I think you're right though in that the reward structure needs to change, at least somehow, to try and discourage something like the situation we have with Pirate Warrior or Aggro Shaman. I don't even think there's anything wrong with those lists necessarily (STB could use adjusting but that's my only beef); but right now the difference in efficiency with those lists compared to anything else makes it seem almost counterproductive to pick anything else. So in the long term to fix that they need to resolve the issue they acknowledged in the Q&A, and make ladder less grindy; this is what I'd wager a big portion of what we see with representation on ladder, and if they implement a way to at least allow people to not feel punished for picking a slower list then we'd see something more balanced. Like if Pirate Warrior or Aggro Shaman isn't 30-40% of the ladder, where does Midrange Hunter fall? They'd still lose horribly to the hyper-aggro lists, but if the meta isn't overwhelmingly unfavored for them do they get a chance to succeed?
Personally I'm a big fan of the idea of thresholds at 15/10/5, with the monthly reset placing players at higher tiers. I know they talked about win streaks past 5, but I'll be honest... I'm not sure I think that's needed, and could cause a spike in bots since they won't need higher than a 50% winrate anymore. This still doesn't fix high legend (there was a video of Amnesiac talking about it on Reddit, basically it's a similar issue; fast/efficient is basically mandatory currently for Top 100 climbs), but it's a start.
I don't think there's any issue with people playing the same class for the entirety of their HS "career"; I imagine that's rare, but people should play what they find enjoyable and there's nothing wrong with that. It's better to encourage people to play the other classes, like they do with quests, but if someone really does enjoy Pirate Warrior more than any other deck and wants to play only Pirate Warrior I'm not concerned by that.
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Who's the Beatdown?
I think a lot of it has to do with the fact there isn't a lot of diversity. People say there is but there really isn't.
1. Shaman. Doesn't matter if it's aggro, control or midrange they share 50% of the same cards.
2. Priest. It's either Dragon or Reno.
3. Mage. Only Reno.
4. Warlock. Only Reno
5. Paladin. Only murlocs.
6. Warrior. Aggro, sometimes dragon rarely control.
Haha funny guy. No it's just called playing non-meta decks and getting to 5 and above every month. It's a new thing called skill, you should try it ;)
I remember playing priest at release:
Reasons for losing:
Not drawing Auchenai or Circle of Healing versus zoolock or facehunter.
Not drawing Mind Control versus Control Warrior.
Not drawing both Shadow Word: Death and BGH versus Handlock
...
There's so few cards that actually COUNTER other cards.
Where's the early game cards that negate the damage from pirates..?
What 1 or even 2 mana card negates the potential 9 damage from Spirit Claws?
What 1 or 2 mana card replaces the 3 minion board advantage from Spirit Claws?
Where's the 2/3 for 1 that cannot attack heroes, and restores 3 health to your hero at the end of turn?
That's the only thing that actually negates a 3/2 for 1 completely, without being horrible situational.
I mean. Take a serious look on Drain Life.
And let that card sink in for a couple of seconds.
3 mana.
2 damage, one time. Heal for 2. It doesn't even negate one single 1 cost minion, for 3 mana.
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in Wild.
For me the most "unfun" thing is knowing already from start what deck to expect. In Standard if you see a Rogue is only THAT Rogue deck; Shaman same with little variation.... Warlock? I bet its a Reno, ditto Mage. Hunter and Pally MIA.
In Wild? EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED FROM ALL CLASSES.