The one thing i see with the rotation unless Blizzard puts some cards in the hall of fame or they nerf cards i think there is one card where a can see it being a problem even after a new standard comes about...its Bonemare. The reason Bonemare is a problem because it is too much stats for 7 mana, some could say its better than dr boom and Dr Doom was meta defining. The next reason is that Bonemare fall into the argument of if you look at anything 7 or higher you hear " why play this when you can Bonemare?" Blizzard normally doesnt like meta's that go around a very select few cards that snowball even harder. Now im sure people who read this are going to be in the crowd of " oh you just need to learn how to play around it" which is not a healthy mind set when every midranged or Aggro deck all run the same 7 drop. I hope this something Blizzard fixes to the fact its way too degrading to get see a small minion smash you after they play a 5/5.
I do believe designers at Blizzard are exceptionally bad at their job in last couple of sets and to release pretty much Dr. Boom power level of card as a neutral common is so stupid that I was speechless when I saw the card being released...
But how do you know what will be a problem after the rotation? Who knows what cards we might get in next expansion. This one was released 2 days ago and people already predict what will be the problem when we get new expansion that we absolutely know nothing about at all.
youre right, we dont know what cards there will be. but players dont Change man, they only play what is known to them and unless they make something better i dont see how anything will change with 7 drops.
I would nerf bonemare to 4/4 or give +3/3 taunt buff. He's NOT as strong as Boom but still a strong card in standard. Boom is still OP in wild and still in most of my decks.
I don't really see many bonemares anymore. Maybe it's because the new expansion has people experimenting, but even as the first decks emerge from the forge I'm seeing maybe 2 bonemares in a day of matches. Even keleseth has only shown up 3 times in my last 40 or so games.
Now if I had a dollar for every time I heard "Surrender your will to the kabal~" I'd have more gold cards than Kripp.
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I don't think they will nerf him for following reasons:
-He is a true midrange card, too slow for aggro, and control/combo can't rely on board presence on turn 7. As Piloted Shredder, Loatheb, Azure Drake, Dr. Boom and Ragnaros the Firelord are no longer in standard, he pretty much carries the midrange playstyle on his shoulders.
-No, Dr. Boom was never meta-defining. He was played a lot, even in control decks, but has limited synergies, and was never a build-around card, but rather a solid curve filler. Bonemare does not have strong synergies except board presence either, if you don't count the odd windfury hit, or Brann Bronzebeard in wild.
-Bonemare can absolutely be played around and teched against!
i think the real problematic card is scalebane but on the other hand hearthstone was/is getting more expensive by the minute, bonemare and scalebane were a great tool to give to low budget players so that they felt they could compete, blizzard has done it with many archetypes before but they've been class restricted for the most part, i guess this time around they wanted to give newer/low budget players something to play with without making them feeli like they had to stick to a particular class.
I spend about $100 per expansion on this game and I still feel like I can only really play one class competitively. It's ridiculous, at $300/yr I should be able to expect a complete set of cards to choose from, not almost half.
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I spend about $100 per expansion on this game and I still feel like I can only really play one class competitively. It's ridiculous, at $300/yr I should be able to expect a complete set of cards to choose from, not almost half.
I totally agree with you on this one. Just Consider its not even a AAA game. and spending 300 dollars a year and you dont get acces to all the content. They should make packs more rewarding. because the value out of these are not motivating and rewarding enough for what you spend on it. Spending $100 and you get 3 maybe 4 legendaries, dont even talk about epics, they are really hard to get all off to complete your sets.
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" In the beginning, there was nothing, which exploded."
I spend about $100 per expansion on this game and I still feel like I can only really play one class competitively. It's ridiculous, at $300/yr I should be able to expect a complete set of cards to choose from, not almost half.
Actually the cost (especially after Standard/Wild formats release) is the reason for even streamers/pros ranting about. Basically it wont hit so hard for Wild players, but wild not supported really for the obvious reasons. But wild will probably be a real choice after several expansions, when you will not be interested in such donations anymore
I agree with you on some points but you must consider that:
If you end with this card on early turns, as a midrange deck you are screwed
You need a board! With proper control, you can counter this card
However, it carries the midrange spirit for some decks, so I hope it doesn't gets overnerfed. In TES:L's expansion HoS, they released a similar card. As you can see, it's way more restricted but I don't think it will work at all in HS because many neutral cards are played in some decks, but it's a start. The power level gets reduced but it's still playable if you place it in a HS context.
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"There are bad ways to win-- and good ways to lose. What's interesting and troubling is that it's not always clear which is which. A flipped coin doesn't always land heads or tails. Sometimes it may never land at all..."
I don't think they will nerf him for following reasons:
-He is a true midrange card, too slow for aggro, and control/combo can't rely on board presence on turn 7. As Piloted Shredder, Loatheb, Azure Drake, Dr. Boom and Ragnaros the Firelord are no longer in standard, he pretty much carries the midrange playstyle on his shoulders.
-No, Dr. Boom was never meta-defining. He was played a lot, even in control decks, but has limited synergies, and was never a build-around card, but rather a solid curve filler. Bonemare does not have strong synergies except board presence either, if you don't count the odd windfury hit, or Brann Bronzebeard in wild.
-Bonemare can absolutely be played around and teched against!
Well, as far as definitions go, metadefining goes as follows: A card that warps the meta in such a way that you either have to play it, or have ways to deal with and have to play around it at all times.
So by that standard, Dr. Boom was probably on the cusp, since in the GVG days you either had to have boom, or pre-nerf BGH to deal with him, otherwise you were at a severe disadvantage.
However, it was possible to win from an even gamestate if boom got slapped onto the board, but you needed to have efficient removal and get lucky on the Boom Bots. So yeah, hard to argue against him being metadefining, but if not at least on the edge.
Bonemare is worse than that imo. It is a card that unless you are ahead on board, or keep the board clear on turn 7, you lose.
It's stupid because it plunks down 2 threats at once, with the giant one having pseudo-charge, therefor hitting you in the face, and taunt preventing any kind of lethal threat to encourage trades.
It is, by definition, as metadefining as it gets. While yes, you can play around the mare, you absolutely have to unless you want to lose on the spot.
That is how powerful the card is.
Judging by history, Blizzard does not agree with you and that defenition of "meta defining", and I am inclined to agree.
Pre-nerf Undertaker was meta-defining as a card that was a CORE, BUILD-AROUND PIECE of several very strong decks. There have been several other cards like that, both before and after, but I would not put Bonemare in that category:
-He is not a build-around card. -He does not have any especially broken synergies. -He does not fit in every deck and every situation. -He is cheap and powerful, hearthstone needs cards like that. -IMO, he supports a healthy playstyle as he is not very aggressive and has no RNG: there are plenty of worse meta-offenders!
I would nerf bonemare to 4/4 or give +3/3 taunt buff. He's NOT as strong as Boom but still a strong card in standard. Boom is still OP in wild and still in most of my decks.
Im playing JUST wild and nobody is playin' boom there. Just some few people and its more like a gimmick deck then. Check the wild meta, there is no boom but some bonemares and with the cards in wilds in not a deal somehow to deal with boom
I still run Boom in all my slower decks and he's still winning me games because he's better than 8 and 9 drops. I don't even run Bonemare in wild, only standard. Boom can be played naked and the boombots give you up to 8 extra damage, something bonemare can't do.
On the other hand, it is probably one of the main cards of Tempo archetypes, which is possibly the healthiest meta definer, for it leaves room to the others archetypes without being excessively oppressive (unlike Aggro, and possibly Control).
If you kill Bonemare's power, Tempo might not be enough against increasingly powerful Control decks, such as the Kabal classes, or even the now dormant Jade Druid, with dire Lategame.
Maybe, they should try and dilute Bonemare's powerlevel in more midgame cards, dunno...
It is absolutely mind boggling people complain of this card where one must last 7-8 turns to use, yet scavenging hyena can single handedly win a match in 3-4 , they nerfed the wrong class and I dont have bonemare in my deck
The one thing i see with the rotation unless Blizzard puts some cards in the hall of fame or they nerf cards i think there is one card where a can see it being a problem even after a new standard comes about...its Bonemare. The reason Bonemare is a problem because it is too much stats for 7 mana, some could say its better than dr boom and Dr Doom was meta defining. The next reason is that Bonemare fall into the argument of if you look at anything 7 or higher you hear " why play this when you can Bonemare?" Blizzard normally doesnt like meta's that go around a very select few cards that snowball even harder. Now im sure people who read this are going to be in the crowd of " oh you just need to learn how to play around it" which is not a healthy mind set when every midranged or Aggro deck all run the same 7 drop. I hope this something Blizzard fixes to the fact its way too degrading to get see a small minion smash you after they play a 5/5.
Hearthstone is a game of "copy and pasting"
Hearthstone is a game of "copy and pasting"
I would nerf bonemare to 4/4 or give +3/3 taunt buff. He's NOT as strong as Boom but still a strong card in standard. Boom is still OP in wild and still in most of my decks.
I don't really see many bonemares anymore. Maybe it's because the new expansion has people experimenting, but even as the first decks emerge from the forge I'm seeing maybe 2 bonemares in a day of matches. Even keleseth has only shown up 3 times in my last 40 or so games.
Now if I had a dollar for every time I heard "Surrender your will to the kabal~" I'd have more gold cards than Kripp.
Look at this thing and let me know what you think!
I don't think they will nerf him for following reasons:
-He is a true midrange card, too slow for aggro, and control/combo can't rely on board presence on turn 7. As Piloted Shredder, Loatheb, Azure Drake, Dr. Boom and Ragnaros the Firelord are no longer in standard, he pretty much carries the midrange playstyle on his shoulders.
-No, Dr. Boom was never meta-defining. He was played a lot, even in control decks, but has limited synergies, and was never a build-around card, but rather a solid curve filler. Bonemare does not have strong synergies except board presence either, if you don't count the odd windfury hit, or Brann Bronzebeard in wild.
-Bonemare can absolutely be played around and teched against!
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
i think the real problematic card is scalebane but on the other hand hearthstone was/is getting more expensive by the minute, bonemare and scalebane were a great tool to give to low budget players so that they felt they could compete, blizzard has done it with many archetypes before but they've been class restricted for the most part, i guess this time around they wanted to give newer/low budget players something to play with without making them feeli like they had to stick to a particular class.
I spend about $100 per expansion on this game and I still feel like I can only really play one class competitively. It's ridiculous, at $300/yr I should be able to expect a complete set of cards to choose from, not almost half.
Look at this thing and let me know what you think!
" In the beginning, there was nothing, which exploded."
I agree with you on some points but you must consider that:
However, it carries the midrange spirit for some decks, so I hope it doesn't gets overnerfed. In TES:L's expansion HoS, they released a similar card. As you can see, it's way more restricted but I don't think it will work at all in HS because many neutral cards are played in some decks, but it's a start. The power level gets reduced but it's still playable if you place it in a HS context.
"There are bad ways to win-- and good ways to lose. What's interesting and troubling is that it's not always clear which is which. A flipped coin doesn't always land heads or tails. Sometimes it may never land at all..."
-He does not have any especially broken synergies.
-He does not fit in every deck and every situation.
-He is cheap and powerful, hearthstone needs cards like that.
-IMO, he supports a healthy playstyle as he is not very aggressive and has no RNG: there are plenty of worse meta-offenders!
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Meh. Bonemare isn't a problem.
It is a VERY strong card, but there are lots of those.
Aggro decks will not play it as it is too slow.
Control decks will not play it as they won't have board control.
Midrange decks decks will continue to use the card as it is strong if you can control the board.
Counter play is very possible, clear the board (or let them play it then twisting nether/psychic scream/aundiun etc..).
That might be a valid argument if there weren't still 130+ cards to come out before the rotation
Bonemare is already a problem now.
On the other hand, it is probably one of the main cards of Tempo archetypes, which is possibly the healthiest meta definer, for it leaves room to the others archetypes without being excessively oppressive (unlike Aggro, and possibly Control).
If you kill Bonemare's power, Tempo might not be enough against increasingly powerful Control decks, such as the Kabal classes, or even the now dormant Jade Druid, with dire Lategame.
Maybe, they should try and dilute Bonemare's powerlevel in more midgame cards, dunno...
It is absolutely mind boggling people complain of this card where one must last 7-8 turns to use, yet scavenging hyena can single handedly win a match in 3-4 , they nerfed the wrong class and I dont have bonemare in my deck
Dude this is a 2 month old post about a card that was just nerfed... And who the f*** complains about Scavenging Hyena?