That problem in wild comes from the fact that hearthstone hasn't stopped the power creep and the fact that the news cards are continually better than the ones before. It's absurd.
They need to stop this power creep
I think all these claims of gross powercreep are a myth. When you compare:
Those are from the top of my head, I could come up with some more examples. Nevermind all those basic cards see play in almost every deck for its respective class, like Northshire Cleric and Mortal Coil. Sure there are some newer cards that are vastly better than old ones, but it can also goes vice versa.
That problem in wild comes from the fact that hearthstone hasn't stopped the power creep and the fact that the news cards are continually better than the ones before. It's absurd.
They need to stop this power creep
I think all these claims of gross powercreep are a myth. When you compare:
Those are from the top of my head, I could come up with some more examples. Nevermind all those basic cards see play in almost every deck for its respective class, like Northshire Cleric and Mortal Coil. Sure there are some newer cards that are vastly better than old ones, but it can also goes vice versa.
If I could give you more than 1 Thumbs Up then I would.
That problem in wild comes from the fact that hearthstone hasn't stopped the power creep and the fact that the news cards are continually better than the ones before. It's absurd.
They need to stop this power creep
I think all these claims of gross powercreep are a myth. When you compare:
Basically you're comparing some of the best older cards with new (filler) cards that never see any play (except Arcanologist) just for the arguments sake.
Better compare all the keycards of the dominating deck types and you'll see that the majority of them is standard legal.
The only good decks, that aren't standard viable are Reno Mage (unlike control mage in standard, they can heal with Reno after Razakus has popped their Iceblock), Aggro Shaman (Tunnel Trogg + Totem Golem are wild) and decks that use Emperor Thaurissan to prepare an OTK: Malygos-Druid, Malygos-Shaman.
That problem in wild comes from the fact that hearthstone hasn't stopped the power creep and the fact that the news cards are continually better than the ones before. It's absurd.
They need to stop this power creep
I think all these claims of gross powercreep are a myth. When you compare:
Basically you're comparing some of the best older cards with new (filler) cards that never see any play (except Arcanologist) just for the arguments sake.
Uh, that was kind of the point. That some of the best cards in the game are older cards, and that the newer sets, despite the "powercreep" as some call it, still have plenty of filler cards. Just as GvG and TGT do.
Basically the newer sets are better at complimenting existing archtypes or creating new ones, whereas back in the day with TGT for example, it didn't really create anything new. Well...besides Secret Paladin.
But mostly the actual stat value of cards from GvG to KaC largely remains the same, besides some exceptional cases.
If you want to see what real powercreep is, try playing an older TCG where the oldest sets are literally unplayable and exist just for collector's purposes.
When Team 5 make cards that is very similar to an old broken card the reason the new one isnt played or is that good is because its an fixed version of old broken one and balanced cards isnt that good on ladder. But when they try new design or try and push card that have similar effects that never saw play we get powered creeped cards.
I think there is a number of arguments that should be considered regarding the Wild cards and format:
1) There are 3 times as many Standard cards as wild-only cards. This makes it so that, all been equal, wild decks should have around 75%, or 21 standard-legal cards, on average.
Mode
Set
Cards
Total
%
Total
Standard
Basic
133
1088
75%
1459
Classic
239
Whispers of the Old Gods
134
One Night in Karazhan
45
Mean Streets of Gadgetzan
132
Journey to Un'Goro
135
Knights of the Frozen Throne
135
Kobolds & Catacombs
135
Wild
Naxxramas
30
371
25%
Goblins vs Gnomes
123
Blackrock Mountain
31
The Grand Tournament
132
League of Explorers
45
Hall of Fame**
10
.
2) The wild/standard ratio is lowest in the 3rd expansion of the year. This is due to the fact that standard has 6 expansions and wild hasn´t gotten any exclusive cards since standard was 4 expansions. As soon as rotation hits, there will be larger diference between the formats, and, from March onwards, there will be more wild-only cards than standard.
3) There are more standard players and a larger standard competitive scene. This makes is so that Linus' Law (Given a large enough number of eyeballs, every problem is trivial) apply: standard decks are better tested and refined, so its easyer for wild players to swap only a couple of cards that are clearlly better and call it their wild deck.
4) Wild is sinergy-focused, rather than power level-focused. This makes things with open-ended synergies stronger than cycle-contained. Some of the largest wild expansions have set-contained synergies (Dragons on BRM, Mechs on GvG), which mean they did not age well. A few, or even one or 2, future powerfull dragons or mechs can "revive" a number of cards (see dragon preist).
This is the same reason why some old strong standalone cards see no play (former Dr. 7 and others).
You have to remeber that "no duplicates", despite been a thing in standard, began with Reno, a wild card, which keeps been center to wild Reno Priests and Mages. if you play the standard version, you might win some games, but it will be strictly worst than with Reno.
5) There are a number of standard-legal cards wich see play only in wild decks. That makes it so that decks are different, even with if some cards used are standard-legal. One example that comes to mind is recently posted Control´s OTK paladin, wich uses Mukla, Tyrant of the Vale, a Old Gods card which has seen ZERO standard play and is only good due to Emperor Thaurissan hitting the banans.
6) Wild meta is diferent, so even if you play the same deck, you may have diferent results. Again, another deck Control used this week in his youtube channel was a Kingsbane Rogue with only Oils as wild cards, but he said he feels the deck lines up better on wild meta than standard.
That problem in wild comes from the fact that hearthstone hasn't stopped the power creep and the fact that the news cards are continually better than the ones before. It's absurd.
They need to stop this power creep
I think all these claims of gross powercreep are a myth. When you compare:
Those are from the top of my head, I could come up with some more examples. Nevermind all those basic cards see play in almost every deck for its respective class, like Northshire Cleric and Mortal Coil. Sure there are some newer cards that are vastly better than old ones, but it can also goes vice versa.
Core of Wild decks are actually newer cards. jade? Razakus? Cubelock? Demolock? PW? Large focus on standard cards. Top decks in Wild are generally built around a STD core with some added Wild cards, which makes things feel like there's huge powercreep. Is this blizz just finally learning how to design decks, not just strong cards? Maybe. I do always feel that Reno is newer than it is, but that's more due to the design philosophy of it fitting very well with the STD card design mentality. Maybe post-next rotation when there's no incentive for STD to have highlander we'll see more variation, although with Jade druid's showing in Wild I'm not entirely convinced.
Is there actually huge powercreep? It turns out not that much, a large part of the reason why the decks are STD legal is that the basic and classic sets are strong for defining the class, so they see a lot of play (Basic, Classic and HoF make up around 40%, going by the numbers stated earlier from HSReplays). Outside of that, YotM has approx double the number of most played Wild cards relative to YotK, and all of naxx through to LoE is approximately 1.5x as many cards as Kraken. So there is some powercreep there, but not that much.
That's simply because even in Wild people want to play with the new cards. Yes, every card is available, but still people want also new expansions there. And naturally new deck means that more people doesn't know how to counter them. And yes, times change and modern cards are often better than old ones.
Also; just because a card was strong in the past, doesn't mean that it still is better nowadays. For example: Dr. Boom.
Dr. Boom was THE card before. Dr. Balanced as we all know him with a huge value. And it was simply the best 7 mana minion in this slot. So yes, many people played him. But he was not balanced because of the damage or the value he has done, but because he was simply the best card in this mana slot. Nowadays we have Bonemare. It's NOT stronger as Dr. Boom, but it is MORE consistent and more reliable. So yes, you can see it as powercreep (but actually isn't because dr. boom is still stronger from raw stats), but that's simply because some mana slots were pretty unrepresented because they are simply too few cards. And yes, even with the wild card pool the card pool is simply too small right now.
People would just add the required amount of wild cards and you would still end up with more powerful standard decks. Take Reno Priest for the best example of this.
The latest expansions have more power creeps, so the old expansions cannot compete. Only few single cards have additional synergies, i.e. Sludge Belcher/Sylvanas for N'Zoth, Quartermaster for Dudes, Ships Cannon for pirates, Voidcaller/Mal'Ganis for Cubelock and of course Reno.
So... wild is like standard with some bonus-cards. If you/ your opponent not draw these cards, it looks like standard. Former meta decks, like Secret Pally or Mech Mage See chanceless. That's what it is.
Malygos Shaman is only played in wild, of course, but it is more a meme deck and not strong enough to compete. Secret Pally was long time T1 in wild, but now it seems too weak, cause call to arms gives a huge minion push, and there's less deckspace for secrets. And in control matchups you get outvalued by voidlords, DK Anduin and plague.
But you're totally right with your prediction to the next rotation. There will be huge differences, cause kaza/raza/reno priests will all move to wild. Don't think, that anyone will dust the core cards and still play the deck in wild.
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There always had to be a format with no requirements
When Team 5 make cards that is very similar to an old broken card the reason the new one isnt played or is that good is because its an fixed version of old broken one and balanced cards isnt that good on ladder. But when they try new design or try and push card that have similar effects that never saw play we get powered creeped cards.
Examples of power creep is the following cards.
living mana and force of nature(post nerf)
cobalt scalebane and master sward smith
the lich king and ironbark protector
call to arms and small time recruits
I think there is a number of arguments that should be considered regarding the Wild cards and format:
1) There are 3 times as many Standard cards as wild-only cards. This makes it so that, all been equal, wild decks should have around 75%, or 21 standard-legal cards, on average.
.
2) The wild/standard ratio is lowest in the 3rd expansion of the year. This is due to the fact that standard has 6 expansions and wild hasn´t gotten any exclusive cards since standard was 4 expansions. As soon as rotation hits, there will be larger diference between the formats, and, from March onwards, there will be more wild-only cards than standard.
3) There are more standard players and a larger standard competitive scene. This makes is so that Linus' Law (Given a large enough number of eyeballs, every problem is trivial) apply: standard decks are better tested and refined, so its easyer for wild players to swap only a couple of cards that are clearlly better and call it their wild deck.
4) Wild is sinergy-focused, rather than power level-focused. This makes things with open-ended synergies stronger than cycle-contained. Some of the largest wild expansions have set-contained synergies (Dragons on BRM, Mechs on GvG), which mean they did not age well. A few, or even one or 2, future powerfull dragons or mechs can "revive" a number of cards (see dragon preist).
This is the same reason why some old strong standalone cards see no play (former Dr. 7 and others).
You have to remeber that "no duplicates", despite been a thing in standard, began with Reno, a wild card, which keeps been center to wild Reno Priests and Mages. if you play the standard version, you might win some games, but it will be strictly worst than with Reno.
5) There are a number of standard-legal cards wich see play only in wild decks. That makes it so that decks are different, even with if some cards used are standard-legal. One example that comes to mind is recently posted Control´s OTK paladin, wich uses Mukla, Tyrant of the Vale, a Old Gods card which has seen ZERO standard play and is only good due to Emperor Thaurissan hitting the banans.
6) Wild meta is diferent, so even if you play the same deck, you may have diferent results. Again, another deck Control used this week in his youtube channel was a Kingsbane Rogue with only Oils as wild cards, but he said he feels the deck lines up better on wild meta than standard.
People would just add the required amount of wild cards and you would still end up with more powerful standard decks. Take Reno Priest for the best example of this.
This
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Hit rank 15 with a homebrew back in the KOFT days.
Yaayyy...
There's all my notable achievements.
I will gladly play against ANY Standard deck using my Wild deck.
Who do you think is at a disadvantage here?
Bad players whine.
Good players adapt.
The latest expansions have more power creeps, so the old expansions cannot compete. Only few single cards have additional synergies, i.e. Sludge Belcher/Sylvanas for N'Zoth, Quartermaster for Dudes, Ships Cannon for pirates, Voidcaller/Mal'Ganis for Cubelock and of course Reno.
So... wild is like standard with some bonus-cards. If you/ your opponent not draw these cards, it looks like standard. Former meta decks, like Secret Pally or Mech Mage See chanceless. That's what it is.
Malygos Shaman is only played in wild, of course, but it is more a meme deck and not strong enough to compete. Secret Pally was long time T1 in wild, but now it seems too weak, cause call to arms gives a huge minion push, and there's less deckspace for secrets. And in control matchups you get outvalued by voidlords, DK Anduin and plague.
But you're totally right with your prediction to the next rotation. There will be huge differences, cause kaza/raza/reno priests will all move to wild. Don't think, that anyone will dust the core cards and still play the deck in wild.