I love my rogue-games while holding a hand full of cheap spells... while maintaining no board I love my rogue-games where my opponent is playing taunt after taunt and is able to remove all of my minons because they mainly have 4hp or less I love my rogue-games because we've got so many good weapons/ spells to clear the board I love my rogue-games because my heal-options and taunt-options allowing me to hold up even to the late-game
As Miracle-Rogue you're playin a big amount of games from behind, the only chance is to come back with extrem damage-burst... To be able you need this kind of extreme card-draw... And sometimes dagger on turn 8 is the best play... Sometimes you'll have to count damage in advance and you'll know that there will only be one round, where you have to test the odds...
Waisted 2x Evis for board-control, used also 1x Cold Blood to maintain it... sorry Sir..., this will not be enough to deal 30 dmg,
My opponent uses his hard removal for 3/4 Mana (Hex, Shadow-Word, Polymorph) and it's over... Thx that Assassanite costs 5 Mana and Sabotage is moved to wild
My favourite combo: Coin into Prep into Coin concede
PLEASE, play it for at least 150 games and post your experience
This is the downside of the sometimes unstoppable drawing engine that rogue has. But it's easier to remember the time when you got beat by a concealed 20/20 vanCleef on turn 8, than the game before when the rogue daggered up turns 6-8 because his hand was conceals coins and preps.
Win-Condition... Play an Eighdwin on 1st round, develop a conceled Adventurer before round 4, collect cheap spells until round 6-8 and try to make the miracle happen... otherwise be beaten without recover-options... I mean it's kind of an own type...
Like Pirate-Warrior: All-In-Deck... good starting-hand = crush your opponent... average starting-hand + average opponent = heh, greetings concede...
Have you ever experienced concede-shaman, control-warrior, any sort of reno-deck? I could argue it's unfair to destroy/ steal the whole board with spells which allow to stall the game and kill your whole while developing nearly nothin except armor or health? I am not salty... but if you change your position of view, you'll maybe see that this kind of deck is also "unfair"... Rogue for exp. has the ability to punish this kind of decks but is beaten by aggro, it is inconsistent by itself, which means it wins you games, it loses you games... sounds like a fair concept at all...
Man I've lost this season more games as I wish to a well-curving priest and also renolock... Not to mention how often I've left with 6hp and my opponent played arcanite reaper + greetings... What now? Queue again or play casual OR stop payin and playing until blizz changes sth.
Since this thread is about auctioneer, I don't think it's that relevant. But yeah, that happens as well. Maybe 1/20 or so games, and is pretty much only a valid play against decks that actually can't deal with it.
It originally cost 5 mana but got nerfed to 6 mana and went away for an age.
However, in the current metagame, it turns out that even the +1 mana nerf isn't sufficient. However, the deck is not horribly dominant. If you were asked to name the top 5 dominant decks, at any point in time from Hearthstone's history, you wouldn't even consider including today's Miracle Rogue in that list.
The actual problem with Gadgetzan Auctioneer, as people have speculated for 2+ years (and the present metagame confirms), is that Blizzard simply can't release decent cards for any other Rogue archetype without Miracle benefitting massively and becoming an issue. For over a year, forum threads have been begging Blizzard to do something, anything, to revitalise Rogue and give it a foothold in the metagame. Everyone remembers this, right? Despite Gadgetzan Auctioneer being available, Rogue was a joke class.
Blizzard have very subtly done this with the latest expansion (so subtly that most people viewed the recent spoilers and declared that, although Priest was getting a major buff, Rogue was being totally abandoned!).
I doubt that, at this stage, anyone would argue that Rogue can be a viable class with multiple archetypes without Miracle being an issue for the metagame. Unless you are a mad Miracle fan, you would probably admit that Rogue, as a class, is ruined by the existence of Gadgetzan Auctioneer. Blizzard simply can't develop the class to have its own identity and presence within Standard without risking Miracle becoming totally OP. Indeed, despite Miracle's current power level, no other Rogue decks exist in any meaningful way within the Standard metagame.
Thus, Blizzard has three options :
Rotate Gadgetzan off to wild. Swiftly release cards which were previously unviable, such that Rogue can be competitive with non-Miracle decks.
Accept that Rogue is the Miracle class. Manage its power level in future expansions and adventures. Do not expect other Rogue archetypes to flourish.
Abandon Rogue. This sounds ridiculous but was actually Blizzard policy for the 18 months prior to this expansion!
TL;DR : Gadgetzan Auctioneer was always a mistake. If it stays in Standard, Rogue will either have one deck (Miracle) or no decks (last 18 months). Other competitive archetypes are not possible while Gadgetzan Auctioneer remains.
Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but a triggered ability does drop Stealth. The reason Conceal works is because Auctioneer's trigger happens when you cast the spell (i.e. before the spell resolves), similar to Violet Teacher (minions spawns before spell effect resolves).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Nature is the Day. Man is the Sun. Woman is the Moon. The Stone is the Sky. The Art is the Way.
PLEASE, play it for at least 150 games and post your experience
Yes, because I've totally never played Miracle Rogue. How could I have been so blind? [/sarcasm]
Basically every game I didn't lose to cheap aggro wins (which was fewer than you'd expect because Rogue does have fairly strong anti-aggro measures and unlike what some people in this thread believe no I'm not dumb enough to hold my Backstabs and other kill spells for a huge Gadgetzan later) I only lost to not drawing a Gadgetzan, which was about one in every six or seven games because any game where you're not against aggro is probably going to the late game and you can be a bit greedy since a control wants to kill you later. When I say "the odds of not drawing your Gadgetzan are low, and the odds of not drawing Conceal once you start comboing are basically nonexistant," that's because 1) basic math kinda' dictates that when you draw about half your deck naturally over the course of play you have to get fairly unlucky not to draw a 2-of, and 2) I PLAYED THE F***ING DECK.
Rotate Gadgetzan off to wild. Swiftly release cards which were previously unviable, such that Rogue can be competitive with non-Miracle decks.
Accept that Rogue is the Miracle class. Manage its power level in future expansions and adventures. Do not expect other Rogue archetypes to flourish.
Abandon Rogue. This sounds ridiculous but was actually Blizzard policy for the 18 months prior to this expansion!
TL;DR : Gadgetzan Auctioneer was always a mistake. If it stays in Standard, Rogue will either have one deck (Miracle) or no decks (last 18 months). Other competitive archetypes are not possible while Gadgetzan Auctioneer remains.
PLEASE, play it for at least 150 games and post your experience
Yes, because I've totally never played Miracle Rogue. How could I have been so blind? [/sarcasm]
Basically every game I didn't lose to cheap aggro wins (which was fewer than you'd expect because Rogue does have fairly strong anti-aggro measures and unlike what some people in this thread believe no I'm not dumb enough to hold my Backstabs and other kill spells for a huge Gadgetzan later) I only lost to not drawing a Gadgetzan, which was about one in every six or seven games because any game where you're not against aggro is probably going to the late game and you can be a bit greedy since a control wants to kill you later. When I say "the odds of not drawing your Gadgetzan are low, and the odds of not drawing Conceal once you start comboing are basically nonexistant," that's because 1) basic math kinda' dictates that when you draw about half your deck naturally over the course of play you have to get fairly unlucky not to draw a 2-of, and 2) I PLAYED THE F***ING DECK.
Rotate Gadgetzan off to wild. Swiftly release cards which were previously unviable, such that Rogue can be competitive with non-Miracle decks.
Accept that Rogue is the Miracle class. Manage its power level in future expansions and adventures. Do not expect other Rogue archetypes to flourish.
Abandon Rogue. This sounds ridiculous but was actually Blizzard policy for the 18 months prior to this expansion!
TL;DR : Gadgetzan Auctioneer was always a mistake. If it stays in Standard, Rogue will either have one deck (Miracle) or no decks (last 18 months). Other competitive archetypes are not possible while Gadgetzan Auctioneer remains.
This man knows what's up.
Do you track your games? Which deck are you playing (I guess sth. "controlish") otherwise it would be hard to see Auctioneer in action... How often do you lose against Rogue and how often because of Auctioneer? Is Questing involved? (srsly, check your stats and break it down to a realistic number) I guess, I don't have to tell you the hardcounter for this deck.
I think that rogue is only "all in" these days.. they play big edvin or/and questing + conceal before turn 6 so you do have an answer or loose and that's it.
it doesn't even come to those auctioneer turns anymore.
I think that rogue is only "all in" these days.. they play big edvin or/and questing + conceal before turn 6 so you do have an answer or loose and that's it.
it doesn't even come to those auctioneer turns anymore.
It's odd you mention that, because I was shocked by the same thing. I've had several games where I thought I had a little more time against the Rogue but instead they open swiftly with pirates and follow it into snowballing a single Questing Adventurer for a pretty crazy early win. I wouldn't say it doesn't come to auctioneer turns anymore, but with the new pirate package the deck is definitely has the ability to win faster than it used to.
It means rogue may still be viable without auctioneer, they either win early or run out of gas. Right now they have it all and that class is broken. Many of expect gadgetzan to either be nerfed again or simply rotated off to wild.
We all know what card was being referenced by the devs when they had the very consistent message about Standard needing to always change with reference to over-prevalent and archetype-defining Classic cards. They'll rotate it in a few months. The worrisome thing is that they've failed to introduce a both viable and interesting Rogue archetype since...Oil? Maybe some of it is the chicken, er, Auctioneer coming before some design ideas could fully materialize, but a good part of it is design failure - they wouldn't have had to fall back on giving the class coins if they could provide a valid alternative.
It means rogue may still be viable without auctioneer, they either win early or run out of gas. Right now they have it all and that class is broken. Many of expect gadgetzan to either be nerfed again or simply rotated off to wild.
Like mentioned before... It's not an OP-deck, cause it hast this handicap of being a combo-deck, which at least relies on 1 of 3 core-cards combined plus spells... otherwise this deck is just bad...
It's weak against aggro and midrange-decks but favoured against control.
Count your losses against it, analyze as well your replays and you'll find out that this deck is beatable...
Sure, if your opponent draws nuts..., you're screwed but this counts for every deck.
Here we go another salty I am a n00b thread who doesn't understand the meta so let's change it because I'm special thread.
Yes, let's kill diversity!
I love my rogue-games while holding a hand full of cheap spells... while maintaining no board
I love my rogue-games where my opponent is playing taunt after taunt and is able to remove all of my minons because they mainly have 4hp or less
I love my rogue-games because we've got so many good weapons/ spells to clear the board
I love my rogue-games because my heal-options and taunt-options allowing me to hold up even to the late-game
As Miracle-Rogue you're playin a big amount of games from behind, the only chance is to come back with extrem damage-burst... To be able you need this kind of extreme card-draw... And sometimes dagger on turn 8 is the best play... Sometimes you'll have to count damage in advance and you'll know that there will only be one round, where you have to test the odds...
Waisted 2x Evis for board-control, used also 1x Cold Blood to maintain it... sorry Sir..., this will not be enough to deal 30 dmg,
My opponent uses his hard removal for 3/4 Mana (Hex, Shadow-Word, Polymorph) and it's over... Thx that Assassanite costs 5 Mana and Sabotage is moved to wild
My favourite combo: Coin into Prep into Coin concede
PLEASE, play it for at least 150 games and post your experience
^
This is the downside of the sometimes unstoppable drawing engine that rogue has. But it's easier to remember the time when you got beat by a concealed 20/20 vanCleef on turn 8, than the game before when the rogue daggered up turns 6-8 because his hand was conceals coins and preps.
You mean the 10/10 I couldn't deal with on 3.
Win-Condition... Play an Eighdwin on 1st round, develop a conceled Adventurer before round 4, collect cheap spells until round 6-8 and try to make the miracle happen... otherwise be beaten without recover-options... I mean it's kind of an own type...
Like Pirate-Warrior: All-In-Deck... good starting-hand = crush your opponent... average starting-hand + average opponent = heh, greetings concede...
Have you ever experienced concede-shaman, control-warrior, any sort of reno-deck? I could argue it's unfair to destroy/ steal the whole board with spells which allow to stall the game and kill your whole while developing nearly nothin except armor or health? I am not salty... but if you change your position of view, you'll maybe see that this kind of deck is also "unfair"... Rogue for exp. has the ability to punish this kind of decks but is beaten by aggro, it is inconsistent by itself, which means it wins you games, it loses you games... sounds like a fair concept at all...
Man I've lost this season more games as I wish to a well-curving priest and also renolock... Not to mention how often I've left with 6hp and my opponent played arcanite reaper + greetings... What now? Queue again or play casual OR stop payin and playing until blizz changes sth.
Let's calm this discussion down and talk sensibly.
Gadgetzan Auctioneer has been a problem, on and off, since forever.
It originally cost 5 mana but got nerfed to 6 mana and went away for an age.
However, in the current metagame, it turns out that even the +1 mana nerf isn't sufficient. However, the deck is not horribly dominant. If you were asked to name the top 5 dominant decks, at any point in time from Hearthstone's history, you wouldn't even consider including today's Miracle Rogue in that list.
The actual problem with Gadgetzan Auctioneer, as people have speculated for 2+ years (and the present metagame confirms), is that Blizzard simply can't release decent cards for any other Rogue archetype without Miracle benefitting massively and becoming an issue. For over a year, forum threads have been begging Blizzard to do something, anything, to revitalise Rogue and give it a foothold in the metagame. Everyone remembers this, right? Despite Gadgetzan Auctioneer being available, Rogue was a joke class.
Blizzard have very subtly done this with the latest expansion (so subtly that most people viewed the recent spoilers and declared that, although Priest was getting a major buff, Rogue was being totally abandoned!).
I doubt that, at this stage, anyone would argue that Rogue can be a viable class with multiple archetypes without Miracle being an issue for the metagame. Unless you are a mad Miracle fan, you would probably admit that Rogue, as a class, is ruined by the existence of Gadgetzan Auctioneer. Blizzard simply can't develop the class to have its own identity and presence within Standard without risking Miracle becoming totally OP. Indeed, despite Miracle's current power level, no other Rogue decks exist in any meaningful way within the Standard metagame.
Thus, Blizzard has three options :
TL;DR : Gadgetzan Auctioneer was always a mistake. If it stays in Standard, Rogue will either have one deck (Miracle) or no decks (last 18 months). Other competitive archetypes are not possible while Gadgetzan Auctioneer remains.
I love miracle rogue <3
Everything that isn't about elephants is irrelephant.
Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but a triggered ability does drop Stealth. The reason Conceal works is because Auctioneer's trigger happens when you cast the spell (i.e. before the spell resolves), similar to Violet Teacher (minions spawns before spell effect resolves).
Nature is the Day.
Man is the Sun.
Woman is the Moon.
The Stone is the Sky.
The Art is the Way.
Yes, because I've totally never played Miracle Rogue. How could I have been so blind? [/sarcasm]
Basically every game I didn't lose to cheap aggro wins (which was fewer than you'd expect because Rogue does have fairly strong anti-aggro measures and unlike what some people in this thread believe no I'm not dumb enough to hold my Backstabs and other kill spells for a huge Gadgetzan later) I only lost to not drawing a Gadgetzan, which was about one in every six or seven games because any game where you're not against aggro is probably going to the late game and you can be a bit greedy since a control wants to kill you later. When I say "the odds of not drawing your Gadgetzan are low, and the odds of not drawing Conceal once you start comboing are basically nonexistant," that's because 1) basic math kinda' dictates that when you draw about half your deck naturally over the course of play you have to get fairly unlucky not to draw a 2-of, and 2) I PLAYED THE F***ING DECK.
I think that rogue is only "all in" these days.. they play big edvin or/and questing + conceal before turn 6 so you do have an answer or loose and that's it.
it doesn't even come to those auctioneer turns anymore.
It means rogue may still be viable without auctioneer, they either win early or run out of gas. Right now they have it all and that class is broken. Many of expect gadgetzan to either be nerfed again or simply rotated off to wild.
We all know what card was being referenced by the devs when they had the very consistent message about Standard needing to always change with reference to over-prevalent and archetype-defining Classic cards. They'll rotate it in a few months. The worrisome thing is that they've failed to introduce a both viable and interesting Rogue archetype since...Oil? Maybe some of it is the chicken, er, Auctioneer coming before some design ideas could fully materialize, but a good part of it is design failure - they wouldn't have had to fall back on giving the class coins if they could provide a valid alternative.
CCGing since '98.
just make it draw a card if the spell costs 2 or more, there fixed
Rogue shouldn't have heals