I know that all the Infuse stuff is meant to be a new keyword in Castle Nathria expansion, but the thing is that we already had cards with the same effect. I re-worded some old cards to illustrate the fact.
Can you think of more cards that match this thread?
I usually don't like to defend Hearthstone developers when it comes to innovation (for obvious reasons), but honestly it is just endlessly infuse that is not a new mechanic, because normal infuse really is. The difference between both is pretty clear. Do I need to explain it? :P
They have been struggling with the past few keywords (exception being dredge, which was pretty cool):
-deal less damage than the health (enrage)
- deal more damage than the health (overkill)
-deal exact damage as the health (honorable kill)
Cards changing while in your hand are nothing new. It's a shame nothing innovates anymore, every expansion feels more and more like a reprint.
Made my day with that joke… with half the cards each expansion being completely unimaginable in the ones before… wild seed, locations, relics, cards like tome tampering, theothar etc…
I usually don't like to defend Hearthstone developers when it comes to innovation (for obvious reasons), but honestly it is just endlessly infuse that is not a new mechanic, because normal infuse really is. The difference between both is pretty clear. Do I need to explain it? :P
I usually don't like to defend Hearthstone developers when it comes to innovation (for obvious reasons), but honestly it is just endlessly infuse that is not a new mechanic, because normal infuse really is. The difference between both is pretty clear. Do I need to explain it? :P
Yes please.
Ok, as you wish! :P
Normal infuse is only a one-time effect that happens while the card is in your hand after the same condition is met several times, which is noticeably different to when there is only one condition to be met that allows the effect to be activated endlessly in your hand, something we have seen already several times in Hearthstone before (for example, Bolvar Fordragon). This allows some cards, like Frozen Touch for example, to exist and work in a different way to all the previous stuff we have seen in the game, mostly because the condition to be met several times has a cap and you have to play around it to get the most out of its one-time effect (usually casting the infused version of the card to create a new normal one in your hand before more friendly minions die).
I'm not saying it is something super creative, because clearly it is not, but it is still something different to take in consideration when designing new cards and playing the game.
Hope my explanation has been pretty clear, I'm not a native English speaker. :P
>> Made my day with that joke… with half the cards each expansion being completely unimaginable in the ones before… wild seed, locations, relics, cards like tome tampering, theothar etc…
I am glad you are enjoying yourself. While many cards seem to hold new mechanics and be completely "unimaginable" before, to those with good memory or associative skills it can become apparent that a lot of these mechanics are simply recycled, rebranded.
Wild seed is simply dormant. Dormant is a cool mechanic introduced quite a number of expansions ago. The only innovation here is combining it with a mechanic that picks a card at random of the 3. We have plenty of those effects, lackeys, adventurers, quest rogue reward steps etc. I don't think it's a particularly innovative introduction this expansion. It's simply a slow way to build up control over a board.
Locations are new types of cards, per se. But they are essentially spells you can cast multiple times, at your command. What I like to compare them with are hero powers. These locations are basically portable hero powers, and similar cards have been printed before: metamorphosis for demon hunter and rogue's Yoink!
Relics are a more interesting variation on Jade golems. Each cast makes the next one more powerful. The deck sits at an abysmal winrate of 39% at competitive ranks. It's not only limited to one class, but it seems to be a flawed archetype as it doesn't have enough synergy to pull off. You're not really going to face it much on ladder either so while it has some novelty to it, it doesn't impact the meta.
Tome tampering is unplayable, just your obligatory filler meme card of the set, with zero support. Again, you won't win games using it, and you won't face it because it's an autoloss.
Theotar is hand disruption, just stronger than before. We had dirty rat in the past, and we received Mutanus in an otk-heavy meta. This time, they give you a better chance of disrupting, but it's essentially just the same mechanic, power crept.
Feel free to suggest any other innovative, meta defining cards of this set.
Given the sheer number and variety of cards now this shouldn't be surprising really. Many mechanics pushed in a set have had cards from previous expansions do the same thing, but the whole expansion didn't revolve around it.
One thing people like the op don't understand, is that new keywords first goal isn't to add new mechanics to the game, it's to reduce the amount of text on the cards so they can stack multiple different effects. Second goal is to add flavor to each expansion (which I don't agree with, but it is what it is)
This is also why Blizzard should be consistent with their design and bring back old unused keywords like recruit and echo, nobody cares where they come from and what flavor it gives to those old expansions.
Bottom line is, the more keywords the better, both for the devs and for us. For the devs, they get more freedom when designing cards. For us, we get more consistency and more complexity in cards. For example, you can never know if Dr. Morrigan, Apothecary's Caravan and Y'Shaarj, Rage Unbound use the same mechanic and if it works consistently in all situations, because they have different wording for the same effect. If they both had the recruit keyword, there's no question asked.
I know that all the Infuse stuff is meant to be a new keyword in Castle Nathria expansion, but the thing is that we already had cards with the same effect. I re-worded some old cards to illustrate the fact.
Can you think of more cards that match this thread?
I usually don't like to defend Hearthstone developers when it comes to innovation (for obvious reasons), but honestly it is just endlessly infuse that is not a new mechanic, because normal infuse really is. The difference between both is pretty clear. Do I need to explain it? :P
They have been struggling with the past few keywords (exception being dredge, which was pretty cool):
-deal less damage than the health (enrage)
- deal more damage than the health (overkill)
-deal exact damage as the health (honorable kill)
Cards changing while in your hand are nothing new. It's a shame nothing innovates anymore, every expansion feels more and more like a reprint.
Made my day with that joke… with half the cards each expansion being completely unimaginable in the ones before… wild seed, locations, relics, cards like tome tampering, theothar etc…
Yes please.
Ok, as you wish! :P
Normal infuse is only a one-time effect that happens while the card is in your hand after the same condition is met several times, which is noticeably different to when there is only one condition to be met that allows the effect to be activated endlessly in your hand, something we have seen already several times in Hearthstone before (for example, Bolvar Fordragon). This allows some cards, like Frozen Touch for example, to exist and work in a different way to all the previous stuff we have seen in the game, mostly because the condition to be met several times has a cap and you have to play around it to get the most out of its one-time effect (usually casting the infused version of the card to create a new normal one in your hand before more friendly minions die).
I'm not saying it is something super creative, because clearly it is not, but it is still something different to take in consideration when designing new cards and playing the game.
Hope my explanation has been pretty clear, I'm not a native English speaker. :P
I am glad you are enjoying yourself. While many cards seem to hold new mechanics and be completely "unimaginable" before, to those with good memory or associative skills it can become apparent that a lot of these mechanics are simply recycled, rebranded.
Wild seed is simply dormant. Dormant is a cool mechanic introduced quite a number of expansions ago. The only innovation here is combining it with a mechanic that picks a card at random of the 3. We have plenty of those effects, lackeys, adventurers, quest rogue reward steps etc. I don't think it's a particularly innovative introduction this expansion. It's simply a slow way to build up control over a board.
Locations are new types of cards, per se. But they are essentially spells you can cast multiple times, at your command. What I like to compare them with are hero powers. These locations are basically portable hero powers, and similar cards have been printed before: metamorphosis for demon hunter and rogue's Yoink!
Relics are a more interesting variation on Jade golems. Each cast makes the next one more powerful. The deck sits at an abysmal winrate of 39% at competitive ranks. It's not only limited to one class, but it seems to be a flawed archetype as it doesn't have enough synergy to pull off. You're not really going to face it much on ladder either so while it has some novelty to it, it doesn't impact the meta.
Tome tampering is unplayable, just your obligatory filler meme card of the set, with zero support. Again, you won't win games using it, and you won't face it because it's an autoloss.
Theotar is hand disruption, just stronger than before. We had dirty rat in the past, and we received Mutanus in an otk-heavy meta. This time, they give you a better chance of disrupting, but it's essentially just the same mechanic, power crept.
Feel free to suggest any other innovative, meta defining cards of this set.
This is the case for almost every "new" mechanic, and there's nothing wrong with it.
no shit
Everything is just kicker…. Or horsemanship.
There were a lot of original ideas here that could take infuses place. Maybe you guys can work for hearthstone.
Given the sheer number and variety of cards now this shouldn't be surprising really. Many mechanics pushed in a set have had cards from previous expansions do the same thing, but the whole expansion didn't revolve around it.
Overkill/Honorable kill have essentially been around since beta: Mortal Coil, Bane of Doom
Recruit: Y'Shaarj, Rage Unbound
Rush: Charged Devilsaur, Icehowl
Lifesteal: Queen of Pain (around since beta, didn't use to read lifesteal)
Spellburst: Literally a one-time "when you cast a spell" card, Violet Teacher, Gadgetzan Auctioneer
There's probably more that I don't recall too.
One thing people like the op don't understand, is that new keywords first goal isn't to add new mechanics to the game, it's to reduce the amount of text on the cards so they can stack multiple different effects. Second goal is to add flavor to each expansion (which I don't agree with, but it is what it is)
Imagine if all rush cards had the Charged Devilsaur text. Then you couldn't have cards like Animated Broomstick, Blademaster Samuro, Ini Stormcoil, Ivus, the Forest Lord or Lushwater Scout, because that would be too much text and/or would look very stupid the way you read it.
This is also why Blizzard should be consistent with their design and bring back old unused keywords like recruit and echo, nobody cares where they come from and what flavor it gives to those old expansions.
Bottom line is, the more keywords the better, both for the devs and for us. For the devs, they get more freedom when designing cards. For us, we get more consistency and more complexity in cards. For example, you can never know if Dr. Morrigan, Apothecary's Caravan and Y'Shaarj, Rage Unbound use the same mechanic and if it works consistently in all situations, because they have different wording for the same effect. If they both had the recruit keyword, there's no question asked.
I'm not sure that it's the same thing.
The way I understand it, Infuse generates a different card, this works for all copy / steal / bounce effects.
If you Sap a Jumbo Imp I'm sure it will cost full on the next turn. If you steal or copy a reduced Fel Guardians it won't be reduced etc.
If you copy a 15 damane Sire Denathrius the copy will do 15 damage.
I'm not saying the design is original, but the mechanics are not the same and that's quite relevant both for play and deckbuilding.
My comments refer mostly to the wild format.