As far as I know, these do not yet exist. What are your thoughts on cards in play ( like a counterspell or maybe minion effect) that counters a weapon once played, or prevents a weapon from being played.
The same goes for a similar counter to Death Knight cards. Might make people play more carefully with their DKs and prevent completely OP win condition cards like Lich Jaina from winning a game on its own.
A good counter to DK or to upgraded HP is the good old Mindbreaker. If you're playing wild, give a try to play Sideshow Spelleater.
He's not talking about removal, he's talking about counter cards like Counterspell. Just imagine the scenario where you play your DK to get safe from all that aggro bullshit RNG fiesta, and suddenly your opponent's secret triggers (of course he played it on turn 2 with coin and Kirin tor Mage) and your dk get fucked by "Counterhero"
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"The flow of time is always cruel... its speed seems different for each person, but no one can change it... A thing that does not change with time is a memory of younger days..."
Mindbreaker is apparently meant as a soft counter for DKs, but I fear it's not powerful enough. I wouldn't mind seeing a version that has stealth (but weaker stats), for more stickiness/survival.
More cards like Dirty Rat would be good (thought that one was great, maybe just putting it in Classic set is enough).
Adding discard effects (to discard cards from opponent's hand) would make things more interactive, but then there should be some countermeasures for that too (more tutor cards like e.g. Shadow Visions or Witchwood Piper, or ways to reorder your deck) in order to limit discards power, i.e. to make it possible to draw+play some key cards (to avoid them sitting in your hand half the game) given a tempo and/or card investment.
In general, I'd like to see a kind of discard (from opponent's hand) mechanic in HS, in a balanced way. MtG had it since the beginning and it didn't break the game. There is no reason it would break HS (it would however make combo decks much harder to play, therefore the above). There was a big outcry that Dirty Rat and Gnomeferatu were going to be the end of it all, yet it never happened. In general, they added depth to the game, in a good way.
A good counter to DK or to upgraded HP is the good old Mindbreaker. If you're playing wild, give a try to play Sideshow Spelleater.
He's not talking about removal, he's talking about counter cards like Counterspell. Just imagine the scenario where you play your DK to get safe from all that aggro bullshit RNG fiesta, and suddenly your opponent's secret triggers (of course he played it on turn 2 with coin and Kirin tor Mage) and your dk get fucked by "Counterhero"
I' m not specifically talking about Mage cards, however, it is an easy example to give. Any class could have the counter. Kirin Tor and Coin have nothing to do with this conversation.
An outright counter or penalty for playing weapon is reasonable. A penalty for a DK could also work. Remember guys and guys, this is just an idea.
The problem with your idea is that unlike spells, you can't really play around a deathknight countering card. You only have one DK/hero card (ok, maybe 2 if you're a shaman or warlock playing both for some reason). If you add something that removes the DK pretty much every deck would run 2 copies of whatever it is, further limiting creativity in deck building.
As it stands the best way to counter DKs is to kill them before they draw and play it, which I think is fine.
Generally I think you need to reconsider what you call "OP". "OP" doesn't mean "cards that my deck loses to". Jaina is a very good card but it's not in any tier 1 deck (barely in tier 2 right now) and probably never will be. It's very slow and can easily be beaten if they don't play it on curve.
This is such a terrible idea bro, Counterspell is usually a very frustrating secret to play against. Hearthstone doesn't need more cards like that, and I'm pretty sure the devs are aware of it.
Mindbreaker is apparently meant as a soft counter for DKs, but I fear it's not powerful enough. I wouldn't mind seeing a version that has stealth (but weaker stats), for more stickiness/survival.
More cards like Dirty Rat would be good (thought that one was great, maybe just putting it in Classic set is enough).
Adding discard effects (to discard cards from opponent's hand) would make things more interactive, but then there should be some countermeasures for that too (more tutor cards like e.g. Shadow Visions or Witchwood Piper, or ways to reorder your deck) in order to limit discards power, i.e. to make it possible to draw+play some key cards (to avoid them sitting in your hand half the game) given a tempo and/or card investment.
In general, I'd like to see a kind of discard (from opponent's hand) mechanic in HS, in a balanced way. MtG had it since the beginning and it didn't break the game. There is no reason it would break HS (it would however make combo decks much harder to play, therefore the above). There was a big outcry that Dirty Rat and Gnomeferatu were going to be the end of it all, yet it never happened. In general, they added depth to the game, in a good way.
A minion that restricts what you could play would be fine if it was an aura-based effect (e.g. A card similar to Jinzo negating the use of trap cards in Yu-Gi-Oh), but to say that a battlecry or a spell that would be able to be used once to permanently prevent something like a weapon or DK card from being used? That would be boring card design and stupidly OP. That creates a 'crab counter' to a deck where you win instantly if you use it and draw the card before the opponent draws the card you are countering. Good counters weaken a deck, not instantly win you the game by just dropping a card. There is such thing as less interactive play even when it comes to counter card design.
OT: As far as DK cards go I think people give too much credit to many of them being "OP OP". Want to know why Jaina seems like it wins games on its own? It is because in many cases that is your entire win condition, to play a control oriented attrition game that generates value and threats. The decks generally have zero burst. Without Jaina the decks are much less likely to win (almost guaranteed in the case of Big Spell Mage since they only have a few late game power houses, and slightly less the case in things like Reno Mage in wild since you do have access to additional theats/damage via potions). However, Jaina is not OP. The opponent very much has degrees of control and plenty of opportunities to interact with the board and disrupt opportunities for the mage to generate value from Jaina. It isn't like as a mage you can set your opponent's minion health to 1 every turn whenever you like to.
"Remove your opponent's hero and shuffle it into BOTH players' decks."
Stalls broken hero powers at the cost of having to endure the battlecry again later in the game, but also with the possibility of using it yourself.
Where is the downside for you playing the card? You are doing an extremely powerful effect, you need to take a very heavy negative effect to compensate for it...
It's like people have no concept at all what goes into creating cards and allowing them to exist while not causing extreme frustration to players. Designing cards simply to completely obliterate strategies in the game without any kind of downside is terrible design.
Well in his defense the negative would be having a useless card against decks with no hero card.
I'd prefer cards that triggers when a DK or weapon is played. For exemple: steal you opponent's weapon, or if your opponent is in DK form, transform into DK at a rebate cost.
Well in his defense the negative would be having a useless card against decks with no hero card.
True indeed, it's just a shame that negative is so absurdly minimal when compared to the positiveS the card has, it is kind of hard to remember that aspect. It's almost as if 70%+ of the decks in the Metagame use the Hero Cards...
The negative is they get the hero battlecry twice (eventually). Remember that a lot of the value in the dk is in the battlecry.
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Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
Well in his defense the negative would be having a useless card against decks with no hero card.
True indeed, it's just a shame that negative is so absurdly minimal when compared to the positiveS the card has, it is kind of hard to remember that aspect. It's almost as if 70%+ of the decks in the Metagame use the Hero Cards...
The negative is they get the hero battlecry twice (eventually). Remember that a lot of the value in the dk is in the battlecry.
That is only a downside for the opponents of some of the DKs though. Sure, enduring Gul'Dan's battlecry twice would be painful, but Jaina's? Having to endure 1 extra water ele sometime down the road isn't much of a downside for the opponent unless they're Kingsbane Rogue. Same type of concept applies to Valeera, Malfurion, Rexxar, and to a lesser extent Anduin (if the opponent either has few 5 plus minions in their deck or has already used most of them by the time Anduin would be played a second time). Most of the more commonly played DKs have relatively mediocre battlecries.
Your particular idea harshly punishes non warlock DK playing classes. Another thing to consider is that non warlock classes not only get a comparatively weak battlecry but they spent their entire turn playing the DK too. It reminds me of how back in the day pre nerf BGH discouraged many big minions from being played. You spend your whole turn to drop a big minion just to get countered and completely lose tempo due to a 3 mana minion.
Counterspell is one of the more interactive cards in the game. I'm surprised folks don't like it. I think we need more pseudo-interactive cards, not less.
As far as I know, these do not yet exist. What are your thoughts on cards in play ( like a counterspell or maybe minion effect) that counters a weapon once played, or prevents a weapon from being played.
The same goes for a similar counter to Death Knight cards. Might make people play more carefully with their DKs and prevent completely OP win condition cards like Lich Jaina from winning a game on its own.
Hello!
Tbh I hate counterspell as a card I don't want to see more cards like it.
I realize removal exits. I am speaking directly to counters. Like a secret for example, that counters a weapon or removes X amount of durability.
Something similar for DKs.
I'm not sure this could work but I thought about it while cleaning today sndcwanted opinions.
Hello!
It would be fine to have a tech against something but to outright deny a dk or weapon is a huge buff to aggro which is not needed..
He's not talking about removal, he's talking about counter cards like Counterspell. Just imagine the scenario where you play your DK to get safe from all that aggro bullshit RNG fiesta, and suddenly your opponent's secret triggers (of course he played it on turn 2 with coin and Kirin tor Mage) and your dk get fucked by "Counterhero"
"The flow of time is always cruel... its speed seems different for each person, but no one can change it... A thing that does not change with time is a memory of younger days..."
Mindbreaker is apparently meant as a soft counter for DKs, but I fear it's not powerful enough. I wouldn't mind seeing a version that has stealth (but weaker stats), for more stickiness/survival.
More cards like Dirty Rat would be good (thought that one was great, maybe just putting it in Classic set is enough).
Adding discard effects (to discard cards from opponent's hand) would make things more interactive, but then there should be some countermeasures for that too (more tutor cards like e.g. Shadow Visions or Witchwood Piper, or ways to reorder your deck) in order to limit discards power, i.e. to make it possible to draw+play some key cards (to avoid them sitting in your hand half the game) given a tempo and/or card investment.
In general, I'd like to see a kind of discard (from opponent's hand) mechanic in HS, in a balanced way. MtG had it since the beginning and it didn't break the game. There is no reason it would break HS (it would however make combo decks much harder to play, therefore the above).
There was a big outcry that Dirty Rat and Gnomeferatu were going to be the end of it all, yet it never happened. In general, they added depth to the game, in a good way.
I' m not specifically talking about Mage cards, however, it is an easy example to give. Any class could have the counter. Kirin Tor and Coin have nothing to do with this conversation.
An outright counter or penalty for playing weapon is reasonable. A penalty for a DK could also work. Remember guys and guys, this is just an idea.
Hello!
The problem with your idea is that unlike spells, you can't really play around a deathknight countering card. You only have one DK/hero card (ok, maybe 2 if you're a shaman or warlock playing both for some reason). If you add something that removes the DK pretty much every deck would run 2 copies of whatever it is, further limiting creativity in deck building.
As it stands the best way to counter DKs is to kill them before they draw and play it, which I think is fine.
Generally I think you need to reconsider what you call "OP". "OP" doesn't mean "cards that my deck loses to". Jaina is a very good card but it's not in any tier 1 deck (barely in tier 2 right now) and probably never will be. It's very slow and can easily be beaten if they don't play it on curve.
This is such a terrible idea bro, Counterspell is usually a very frustrating secret to play against. Hearthstone doesn't need more cards like that, and I'm pretty sure the devs are aware of it.
There's always the Howlfiend/Treachery combo.
A minion that restricts what you could play would be fine if it was an aura-based effect (e.g. A card similar to Jinzo negating the use of trap cards in Yu-Gi-Oh), but to say that a battlecry or a spell that would be able to be used once to permanently prevent something like a weapon or DK card from being used? That would be boring card design and stupidly OP. That creates a 'crab counter' to a deck where you win instantly if you use it and draw the card before the opponent draws the card you are countering. Good counters weaken a deck, not instantly win you the game by just dropping a card. There is such thing as less interactive play even when it comes to counter card design.
OT: As far as DK cards go I think people give too much credit to many of them being "OP OP". Want to know why Jaina seems like it wins games on its own? It is because in many cases that is your entire win condition, to play a control oriented attrition game that generates value and threats. The decks generally have zero burst. Without Jaina the decks are much less likely to win (almost guaranteed in the case of Big Spell Mage since they only have a few late game power houses, and slightly less the case in things like Reno Mage in wild since you do have access to additional theats/damage via potions). However, Jaina is not OP. The opponent very much has degrees of control and plenty of opportunities to interact with the board and disrupt opportunities for the mage to generate value from Jaina. It isn't like as a mage you can set your opponent's minion health to 1 every turn whenever you like to.
My idea:
"Remove your opponent's hero and shuffle it into BOTH players' decks."
Stalls broken hero powers at the cost of having to endure the battlecry again later in the game, but also with the possibility of using it yourself.
Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
Well in his defense the negative would be having a useless card against decks with no hero card.
I'd prefer cards that triggers when a DK or weapon is played. For exemple: steal you opponent's weapon, or if your opponent is in DK form, transform into DK at a rebate cost.
The negative is they get the hero battlecry twice (eventually). Remember that a lot of the value in the dk is in the battlecry.
Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
That is only a downside for the opponents of some of the DKs though. Sure, enduring Gul'Dan's battlecry twice would be painful, but Jaina's? Having to endure 1 extra water ele sometime down the road isn't much of a downside for the opponent unless they're Kingsbane Rogue. Same type of concept applies to Valeera, Malfurion, Rexxar, and to a lesser extent Anduin (if the opponent either has few 5 plus minions in their deck or has already used most of them by the time Anduin would be played a second time). Most of the more commonly played DKs have relatively mediocre battlecries.
Your particular idea harshly punishes non warlock DK playing classes. Another thing to consider is that non warlock classes not only get a comparatively weak battlecry but they spent their entire turn playing the DK too. It reminds me of how back in the day pre nerf BGH discouraged many big minions from being played. You spend your whole turn to drop a big minion just to get countered and completely lose tempo due to a 3 mana minion.
Counterspell is one of the more interactive cards in the game. I'm surprised folks don't like it. I think we need more pseudo-interactive cards, not less.
Galavant Animation
I still play it from time to time :P
It's a pain to set up, but the payoff can be priceless :)
Counters should work more like say explosive runes, it nullifies some aspects but not all.